If you were the owner

[SP]

Would you make your son/daughter the DoF?  Much as I love my kids, I don't think I would.

[The Rational Fan]

As a fan, it would be great if an owner could pour his money into the club (like MAF did) and give the money to a football expert to produce on-field success (like Tigana did), but this model never made a profit, and I don't think it ever will. If you look at so-called football experts as DOF, they are little more than trophy hunters that say anything to get on-field success. Every football expert always says spend more now, make profits later, and then leave as soon as the owner wants to make the profits promised. Football experts make poor DOFs.

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

Importantly, no one with the money to buy Fulham i) considered "Fulham FC as a going profitable concern" and ii) was interested in continuing to try to make the MAF Business model work (i.e. becoming the ManU of the South using football experts as in the past).

Any financial transformation of Fulham needs us to be in the Premier League with a radically different Business Model in relation to recruitment and players costs, so logically a very different DOF to anything we have ever had before is the only chance of success. Hence, FFC probably has to be a DOF from outside football that SK trusts.

In answer to your question, if I was looking for a DOF that would do things differently than I could trust them I would consider my family members first.

The alternative to having an owner invest in the squad with a DOF he trusts, is The Glazers model where the owner just gives 60-80% percentage of revenue to the football expert, which will end in tears for Fulham.

[toshes mate]

I had enough trouble dealing with myself as a one person business to contemplate even remotely involving those closest to me, but I can understand when and why family business can work very well.  Nepotism of itself is not the issue - the issue is whether or not you'd employ that someone if they were not closely related to you. 

But billionaires do not have to have the rationale of most business people and so how can ordinary folk truly know how they think or work?   

[Cumbrian White]

Yes, because it is a toy, a play thing, something to keep them out of trouble, if I had their money I would do the same as occupying my kids and giving them opportunity is far more important than a football fan I don't know or even care about.

[ALG01]

As a fan, it would be great if an owner could pour his money into the club (like MAF did) and give the money to a football expert to produce on-field success (like Tigana did), but this model never made a profit, and I don't think it ever will. If you look at so-called football experts as DOF, they are little more than trophy hunters that say anything to get on-field success. Every football expert always says spend more now, make profits later, and then leave as soon as the owner wants to make the profits promised. Football experts make poor DOFs.

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

Importantly, no one with the money to buy Fulham i) considered "Fulham FC as a going profitable concern" and ii) was interested in continuing to try to make the MAF Business model work (i.e. becoming the ManU of the South using football experts as in the past).

Any financial transformation of Fulham needs us to be in the Premier League with a radically different Business Model in relation to recruitment and players costs, so logically a very different DOF to anything we have ever had before is the only chance of success. Hence, FFC probably has to be a DOF from outside football that SK trusts.

In answer to your question, if I was looking for a DOF that would do things differently than I could trust them I would consider my family members first.

The alternative to having an owner invest in the squad with a DOF he trusts, is The Glazers model where the owner just gives 60-80% percentage of revenue to the football expert, which will end in tears for Fulham.

That is an amazing answer.
It reads like it comes straight from the PR machine of a large multi billion dollar entity.
Sounds like, not is.

The model you are supporting has nothing to do with making the DoF a totally inexperienced  failure. He is the reason we have failed on the pitch and has caused all the frustration and if you think otherwise thenI am not sure what team you have been watching all these years.

The issue of ground development and cutting your cloth is perfectly understandable and wow for a team that can't follow the MAF model, I was astonished to see £100M tipped down the drain and the best manager we have recently had made scapegoat for the falied DoF. So all the stuff you put forward as a new business model, for in other words that is what you have said, has nothing to do with the DOF being totally unqualified and worse, wastes the resource we do have. Staing in the prem next season would have made more semnse but he spent fortunes on RLC and areola's wages when two good forwards made way more sense.

I iknow you are a massive fan of the current ownership but having a DoF that is making the same errors over and over is just a bizarre concept. It makes no buismnness sense to have the DoF take us backewards and make it worse.

And in your other posts I note you say the retained player squad, or players under contract is the best we have ever had, or similar. No it isn't, it remains as flawed as it always is. We do not have a forward line, we might have mitro but that is it! If before season starts we assemble a proper squad in good time for scott to get them ready and not a bunch of last ditch panics on the last day, I might calm down. But history suggests the DoF is incapble of doing what is required. being full time and located in the UK would certainly help. Being qualified by virtue of being in football for a lifdetime would be better.

[ALG01]

In answer to the OP. I would coinsider anyone that talked sense and had the ability to succeed including my family. However if I did select them it might be as the assistant DoF first. Get a top man in, get the family member to learn over a number of years and then see if they had the actual requisite talent to step up.

The idea of getting somebody with absolutely no experience that does not live here full time and not even as a full time job simply beggars belkef.

And even as a father if you let your heart rule your head, surely if it wasn't working out you would fix it. Nobody wants to abuse the owner or hois son on a repeating basis. But we do want what is best for the team and this clearly is not it.

[Dougie]

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

I don't think profit/dividends is particularly important. I think the goal is to increase the value of their asset, that is our football club, by re-establishing it as a Premiership club as revenues continue to grow, whilst growing its ancillary revenues through redevelopment of the site (land value of Craven Cottage probably doesn't hurt too). In the meantime the personal cost of funding £10-20m of debt a year or converting debt into equity to the Khans is probably heavily mitigated through clever accounting and tax deductables or whatever.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I had enough trouble dealing with myself as a one person business to contemplate even remotely involving those closest to me, but I can understand when and why family business can work very well.  Nepotism of itself is not the issue - the issue is whether or not you'd employ that someone if they were not closely related to you. 

But billionaires do not have to have the rationale of most business people and so how can ordinary folk truly know how they think or work?   

As a fan, it would be great if an owner could pour his money into the club (like MAF did) and give the money to a football expert to produce on-field success (like Tigana did), but this model never made a profit, and I don't think it ever will. If you look at so-called football experts as DOF, they are little more than trophy hunters that say anything to get on-field success. Every football expert always says spend more now, make profits later, and then leave as soon as the owner wants to make the profits promised. Football experts make poor DOFs.

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

Importantly, no one with the money to buy Fulham i) considered "Fulham FC as a going profitable concern" and ii) was interested in continuing to try to make the MAF Business model work (i.e. becoming the ManU of the South using football experts as in the past).

Any financial transformation of Fulham needs us to be in the Premier League with a radically different Business Model in relation to recruitment and players costs, so logically a very different DOF to anything we have ever had before is the only chance of success. Hence, FFC probably has to be a DOF from outside football that SK trusts.

In answer to your question, if I was looking for a DOF that would do things differently than I could trust them I would consider my family members first.

The alternative to having an owner invest in the squad with a DOF he trusts, is The Glazers model where the owner just gives 60-80% percentage of revenue to the football expert, which will end in tears for Fulham.

First law of the jungle, never involve family in your own business.

[mrmicawbers]

I would have loved it for my father to buy the club and let me be the Dof it's what dreams are made of.Can't get why people are getting their knickers in a twist over the ownership?They are hardly running the Club b into the ground.You can keep on moaning ad nauseam not going to change anything. Even with the loans going back we have a better squad than when we went down previously. Onwards and upwards.

[filham]

Fathers who want their kids to follow in their footsteps usually make sure they have a good understanding of the business and make them start at the bottom and then work their way up to the top.
Suspect TK is as yet unable to make a good cup of tea.

Always wondered who MAF's advisors were, he made but few football errors.

[bill taylors apprentice]

As a fan, it would be great if an owner could pour his money into the club (like MAF did) and give the money to a football expert to produce on-field success (like Tigana did), but this model never made a profit, and I don't think it ever will. If you look at so-called football experts as DOF, they are little more than trophy hunters that say anything to get on-field success. Every football expert always says spend more now, make profits later, and then leave as soon as the owner wants to make the profits promised. Football experts make poor DOFs.

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

Importantly, no one with the money to buy Fulham i) considered "Fulham FC as a going profitable concern" and ii) was interested in continuing to try to make the MAF Business model work (i.e. becoming the ManU of the South using football experts as in the past).

Any financial transformation of Fulham needs us to be in the Premier League with a radically different Business Model in relation to recruitment and players costs, so logically a very different DOF to anything we have ever had before is the only chance of success. Hence, FFC probably has to be a DOF from outside football that SK trusts.

In answer to your question, if I was looking for a DOF that would do things differently than I could trust them I would consider my family members first.

The alternative to having an owner invest in the squad with a DOF he trusts, is The Glazers model where the owner just gives 60-80% percentage of revenue to the football expert, which will end in tears for Fulham.

That is an amazing answer.
It reads like it comes straight from the PR machine of a large multi billion dollar entity.
Sounds like, not is.

The model you are supporting has nothing to do with making the DoF a totally inexperienced  failure. He is the reason we have failed on the pitch and has caused all the frustration and if you think otherwise thenI am not sure what team you have been watching all these years.

The issue of ground development and cutting your cloth is perfectly understandable and wow for a team that can't follow the MAF model, I was astonished to see £100M tipped down the drain and the best manager we have recently had made scapegoat for the falied DoF. So all the stuff you put forward as a new business model, for in other words that is what you have said, has nothing to do with the DOF being totally unqualified and worse, wastes the resource we do have. Staing in the prem next season would have made more semnse but he spent fortunes on RLC and areola's wages when two good forwards made way more sense.

I iknow you are a massive fan of the current ownership but having a DoF that is making the same errors over and over is just a bizarre concept. It makes no buismnness sense to have the DoF take us backewards and make it worse.

And in your other posts I note you say the retained player squad, or players under contract is the best we have ever had, or similar. No it isn't, it remains as flawed as it always is. We do not have a forward line, we might have mitro but that is it! If before season starts we assemble a proper squad in good time for scott to get them ready and not a bunch of last ditch panics on the last day, I might calm down. But history suggests the DoF is incapble of doing what is required. being full time and located in the UK would certainly help. Being qualified by virtue of being in football for a lifdetime would be better.

Generally agree with Mr ALG01
Yet again Mr Rational comes over as the opposite of his name as he attempts to impress us with sensible reasons and decisions based on intelligent thinking but does niether.

[blingo]

I had enough trouble dealing with myself as a one person business to contemplate even remotely involving those closest to me, but I can understand when and why family business can work very well.  Nepotism of itself is not the issue - the issue is whether or not you'd employ that someone if they were not closely related to you. 

But billionaires do not have to have the rationale of most business people and so how can ordinary folk truly know how they think or work?   

As a fan, it would be great if an owner could pour his money into the club (like MAF did) and give the money to a football expert to produce on-field success (like Tigana did), but this model never made a profit, and I don't think it ever will. If you look at so-called football experts as DOF, they are little more than trophy hunters that say anything to get on-field success. Every football expert always says spend more now, make profits later, and then leave as soon as the owner wants to make the profits promised. Football experts make poor DOFs.

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

Importantly, no one with the money to buy Fulham i) considered "Fulham FC as a going profitable concern" and ii) was interested in continuing to try to make the MAF Business model work (i.e. becoming the ManU of the South using football experts as in the past).

Any financial transformation of Fulham needs us to be in the Premier League with a radically different Business Model in relation to recruitment and players costs, so logically a very different DOF to anything we have ever had before is the only chance of success. Hence, FFC probably has to be a DOF from outside football that SK trusts.

In answer to your question, if I was looking for a DOF that would do things differently than I could trust them I would consider my family members first.

The alternative to having an owner invest in the squad with a DOF he trusts, is The Glazers model where the owner just gives 60-80% percentage of revenue to the football expert, which will end in tears for Fulham.

First law of the jungle, never involve family in your own business.

100% correct. It very rarely ends in anything but disappointment and failure.

[toshes mate]

I had enough trouble dealing with myself as a one person business to contemplate even remotely involving those closest to me, but I can understand when and why family business can work very well.  Nepotism of itself is not the issue - the issue is whether or not you'd employ that someone if they were not closely related to you. 

But billionaires do not have to have the rationale of most business people and so how can ordinary folk truly know how they think or work?   

As a fan, it would be great if an owner could pour his money into the club (like MAF did) and give the money to a football expert to produce on-field success (like Tigana did), but this model never made a profit, and I don't think it ever will. If you look at so-called football experts as DOF, they are little more than trophy hunters that say anything to get on-field success. Every football expert always says spend more now, make profits later, and then leave as soon as the owner wants to make the profits promised. Football experts make poor DOFs.

The number of Billionaires that believe that they can take over a loss-making team and turn out profit is decreasing. Once that list of investors that think FFC can succeed decreases to zero, Fulham is ruined. As that day approaches, the ideas to turn Fulham around will become crazier (like using stats) but if none of them work its curtains.

Importantly, no one with the money to buy Fulham i) considered "Fulham FC as a going profitable concern" and ii) was interested in continuing to try to make the MAF Business model work (i.e. becoming the ManU of the South using football experts as in the past).

Any financial transformation of Fulham needs us to be in the Premier League with a radically different Business Model in relation to recruitment and players costs, so logically a very different DOF to anything we have ever had before is the only chance of success. Hence, FFC probably has to be a DOF from outside football that SK trusts.

In answer to your question, if I was looking for a DOF that would do things differently than I could trust them I would consider my family members first.

The alternative to having an owner invest in the squad with a DOF he trusts, is The Glazers model where the owner just gives 60-80% percentage of revenue to the football expert, which will end in tears for Fulham.

First law of the jungle, never involve family in your own business.

100% correct. It very rarely ends in anything but disappointment and failure.

To extend my train of thought when my business did expand a relative of mine asked me if I would take them on and I politely declined saying 'It would only end in tears and regrets all around'.  You develop that sixth sense and just know there are some risks you cannot afford to take if you value all the rest of your workforce as highly as you should do. 

[shepperton white]

Cannot say how true this is, but I heard a theory about MAF that because he was paying so much in personal taxation he bought FFC as a deliberate tax loss so effectively did not cost him that much anyway.

[Penfold]

Cannot say how true this is, but I heard a theory about MAF that because he was paying so much in personal taxation he bought FFC as a deliberate tax loss so effectively did not cost him that much anyway.

FFC is a limited company. You cannot set off losses from a corporate body (limited company) against personal income.

Also, if you look at the structure set up, FFC outside the group of his companies that made money. Therefore, no scope to use corporate loss relief.

[clarkey]

There is nothing at all wrong with the ownership. They act in the best interest of the club. You disagree, but they have not been any worse than many clubs' owners and have been a lot better than Man Utd, Liverpool, Juventus and a host of others.

The family have built a brand new, well designed, tasteful stand fit for the future. They have invested in infrastructure, training facilities, and totally run the club without any financial or moral problems. That all needs praising especially in this age. They act with dignity and are a credit to the Club's tradition unlike many we have experienced in the past.

They have tried to be patient with the key appointment of team manager, they have learned from the lessons of three/four years ago when we went through too many managers and again two years ago BUT this year they have been badly let down by an inexperienced manager who got things badly wrong in both his full seasons in charge. Last year he got away with bad selection and poor management because the base level of the squad was way above most of the other teams in the Championships.

But the Premiership is not so forgiving. No one would have been frightened about playing Fulham this year.No one expected us to score loads of goals, and everyone knew that when push came to shove (like v Aston Villa) Scott's team would fall over.We were tactically naive and predictable and our only creative player with the ability to surprise the opposition was past his best, we had no ace in the hole once Cairney had gone unfit.

So let's get a better manager who can build the club, have them develop a good relationship with the owner's preferred method of buying players, and play to our strengths not try to change something that we have absolutely no control over.As fans we can influence the choice of manager and when they change that person.

Now is the time, the sooner the better so we are ready for next season.

[winterline]

The only way putting family into the business is after they grew up in it, period.

[Twig]

There is nothing at all wrong with the ownership. They act in the best interest of the club. You disagree, but they have not been any worse than many clubs' owners and have been a lot better than Man Utd, Liverpool, Juventus and a host of others.

The family have built a brand new, well designed, tasteful stand fit for the future. They have invested in infrastructure, training facilities, and totally run the club without any financial or moral problems. That all needs praising especially in this age. They act with dignity and are a credit to the Club's tradition unlike many we have experienced in the past.

They have tried to be patient with the key appointment of team manager, they have learned from the lessons of three/four years ago when we went through too many managers and again two years ago BUT this year they have been badly let down by an inexperienced manager who got things badly wrong in both his full seasons in charge. Last year he got away with bad selection and poor management because the base level of the squad was way above most of the other teams in the Championships.

But the Premiership is not so forgiving. No one would have been frightened about playing Fulham this year.No one expected us to score loads of goals, and everyone knew that when push came to shove (like v Aston Villa) Scott's team would fall over.We were tactically naive and predictable and our only creative player with the ability to surprise the opposition was past his best, we had no ace in the hole once Cairney had gone unfit.

So let's get a better manager who can build the club, have them develop a good relationship with the owner's preferred method of buying players, and play to our strengths not try to change something that we have absolutely no control over.As fans we can influence the choice of manager and when they change that person.

Now is the time, the sooner the better so we are ready for next season.

I didn't have an issue with what you've written until I got to the bit about "the owner's preferred method of buying players".  All the infrastructure investment is great, but on the football side and particularly transfer strategy, the owners need to get an experienced, professional person in charge.

It's not the trivial arguments over how good or poor individual signings have been, it's the overall strategy. Under our current owners we have never recruited a balanced squad and we have never recruited players all suited to a particular, preferred playing style. Instead our transfer/loan business (both in and out) is opportunistic and lacking in coherence.

We can change managers as often as you like (and on balance I probably would prefer to see SP move on), but the real need is for a clear, coherent footballing strategy inextricably linked to all our transfer dealings, loan deals, youth development policy etc etc.

[ALG01]

There is nothing at all wrong with the ownership. They act in the best interest of the club. You disagree, but they have not been any worse than many clubs' owners and have been a lot better than Man Utd, Liverpool, Juventus and a host of others.

The family have built a brand new, well designed, tasteful stand fit for the future. They have invested in infrastructure, training facilities, and totally run the club without any financial or moral problems. That all needs praising especially in this age. They act with dignity and are a credit to the Club's tradition unlike many we have experienced in the past.

They have tried to be patient with the key appointment of team manager, they have learned from the lessons of three/four years ago when we went through too many managers and again two years ago BUT this year they have been badly let down by an inexperienced manager who got things badly wrong in both his full seasons in charge. Last year he got away with bad selection and poor management because the base level of the squad was way above most of the other teams in the Championships.

But the Premiership is not so forgiving. No one would have been frightened about playing Fulham this year.No one expected us to score loads of goals, and everyone knew that when push came to shove (like v Aston Villa) Scott's team would fall over.We were tactically naive and predictable and our only creative player with the ability to surprise the opposition was past his best, we had no ace in the hole once Cairney had gone unfit.

So let's get a better manager who can build the club, have them develop a good relationship with the owner's preferred method of buying players, and play to our strengths not try to change something that we have absolutely no control over.As fans we can influence the choice of manager and when they change that person.

Now is the time, the sooner the better so we are ready for next season.

You shouldn't tempt me with a first sentence like that.

Any 1st year student of business would advise there is masses wrong with the management of the club. They may well not have been worse than others but you cannot compare a man utd/Juve/Liverpool to us. Each team has its own special issues. And each of thoise are serial winners of major trophies and world renowned brands. What is wrong at Fulham is the management are not treating it in fully professional manner and the introduction of a part time amateur domiciled overseas is proof positive of that.

The new stand which i saw for the foirst time at the newcastle game came as a shock when i saw it in the flesh. It is not tasteful at all but out of proportion to the rest of the stadium and the site in general. It well look nice from the other side of the river, I do not know but the pictures look good biut closing the two ends makes it a bit claustrophobic and loses the connection of the stadium with the river. tasteful? Not in my opinion.

I tend to think scoitt was pragmatic in the way he [layed getting the best from a squad with no forewards. The on ewe had clear was either not fit or not happy, either way he was unavaiable and when he did play pretty useless. No wards equalled a recipe for disaster. the management that you say there is nothing wrong with simply failed once again to supply a proper squad for the mnanager, and we have hgad a few now, that was capable of properly competing. Even slav, when we went up, was playing with a thin squad with only one forward, it is simply russian roulette.

We do not need a new manager. We need a DoF that isn't there because he is the owner's son as his only qualification. we need a DoF that is local, full time and properly qualified/expeienced.

We can get any manager you name, they wioll all fail as long as the squad is shambolically assmbelled.

Finally I keep promising myself not to repeat this continual monalogue but I cannot help myself whilst readinbg statements such as there is 'nothing worng with the ownership' i don't think so, and to be fair virtually any fulham supporter I speak to except a few on here, don't think so either.

[shepperton white]

OK Penfold, so that theory is out the window!