Squad Depth - Achilles Heel

[filham]

No doubt we are the best team in the Championship with good players in all positions and it has been said that we have quality in depth, our bench always looks very good.
However the injury to Kebano and the poor performance , with just one goal scored , over the last two matches has highlighted a weakness.

For our three attacking positions normally filled by Kebano, Carvalho and Wilson we have but one player in reserve , BDR and really he has not come up to scratch when replacing Kebano.
With Carvalho off to Liverpool in the summer we will as a priority need at least two quality players to fill these attacking roles and I think that will make a £50m hole in TK's budget, then I suspect we will need a replacement for Ream and Rodak. I note that Williams would like to stay with us but am wondering if we will be able to afford the luxury of him and Tete at right back.

[H4usuallysitting]

I don't see Williams as a right back, i see him as an attacking midfielder....we could of had Tete & Williams on the right....And Wilson & Robinson on the left....but what do I know

[filham]

I don't see Williams as a right back, i see him as an attacking midfielder....we could of had Tete & Williams on the right....And Wilson & Robinson on the left....but what do I know

Would have thought Silva would have tried that in training and it would cut across the current fashion of inside out wide men.

[LC]

I don't see Williams as a right back, i see him as an attacking midfielder....we could of had Tete & Williams on the right....And Wilson & Robinson on the left....but what do I know

Not sure Wilson would do well on the left, he likes to move inside and he won't be able to do that on the left. You could play him in the number 10 role with Fabio on the left.

I think we would get more out of Fabio playing him on the left 

[Lighthouse]

Well we need to change formation when there is an injury and playing the same way isn't working. With us being so far ahead why not play with two strikers? The performances and results couldn't have been any worse than they have been over the last two games.

[Sting of the North]

Well we need to change formation when there is an injury and playing the same way isn't working. With us being so far ahead why not play with two strikers? The performances and results couldn't have been any worse than they have been over the last two games.

Of course the performances and results could have been worse. That was hardly our two worst games ever?

I agree with others about not changing formation at this point. Our game has been so much built up on players understanding the runs of teammates and being able to execute quick passing moves and translations of play. Much of that would run the risk of going out the window with a formation change. Any formation change should only be made within a long term plan, not because of short term panic (which I am sure that our professionals don't feel at all anyway).

In my opinion.

[The Rational Fan]

We have some serious long-term squad depth issues that need to be addressed in the summer, particularly around center-back and attacking midfielders because a number of players have only one or two seasons left in them at the level we need to play.

[We Are Premier League]

We have some serious long-term squad depth issues that need to be addressed in the summer, particularly around center-back and attacking midfielders because a number of players have only one or two seasons left in them at the level we need to play.

Don't think we are worse than most other promoted teams, they all tend to need about 6 new players for each the first few seasons.

Burnley is an example of a club with similar but worse issues, 13 squad players at 31y or older, 2 additional players with contracts ending this summer. That leaves 9 players, of which 2 are GK's.

[filham]

Well we need to change formation when there is an injury and playing the same way isn't working. With us being so far ahead why not play with two strikers? The performances and results couldn't have been any worse than they have been over the last two games.

Don't really buy the idea of a complete tactical change because one player is injured but I suppose it is worth a try for one game.

                                                                                 Rodak
                                                 Williams        Tosin                Ream         Robinson
                           
                                                 Wilson               Seri             Cairney          Carvalho

                                                                         Muniz          Mitro

Yes, looks pretty good. The Ha Has will be wondering what has hit them.

[Bassey the warrior]

Well we need to change formation when there is an injury and playing the same way isn't working. With us being so far ahead why not play with two strikers? The performances and results couldn't have been any worse than they have been over the last two games.

Don't really buy the idea of a complete tactical change because one player is injured but I suppose it is worth a try for one game.

                                                                                 Rodak
                                                 Williams        Tosin                Ream         Robinson
                           
                                                 Wilson               Seri             Cairney          Carvalho

                                                                         Muniz          Mitro

Yes, looks pretty good. The Ha Has will be wondering what has hit them.

That centre midfield is too lightweight. If you're playing two in midfield it has to be Reed and Seri for a bit of bite and combativeness. Also, not sure how well Mitro and Muniz compliment each other, for me it's never quite worked. Couldn't hurt to try but I'd rather not try until we've got the title tied up.

[Bassey the warrior]

I don't see Williams as a right back, i see him as an attacking midfielder....we could of had Tete & Williams on the right....And Wilson & Robinson on the left....but what do I know

He's a wingback, like Alexander-Arnold.

[toshes mate]

Squad depth comes from a mix of wise buying and younger promise coming through the test of going up a level or two.  Poor purchases (and/or poor contracts) can and will block the natural flow for as long as a contract is enforceable and current.   That's the hard lesson FFC has had to learn since 2016.   Hopefully we have learned how to do things better.   As for permutations of both central and flank partnerships I would have expected that all tangible (and even some untangible) partnerships have been looked at in training.   Players who know each other well obviously helps but even Williams and Wilson failed to click as often than not last time out.  But they were not alone.  How would Robinson and Carvalho perform as compared to Robinson and Kebano, Robinson and Cavaleiro, and Robinson and BDR?  Does the success of any of those combos depend on who is playing in central and attacking midfield?   The patterns are considerable and would only be compounded by a formation change. 

Marco Silva and his team have presided over a range of performances but few have been poor.  Some have been disappointing (e.g the recent WBA game) but even then we had chances to win the game.  I am sure Silva and company have plenty of ideas of what they can do under less pressure to secure points and the key would be to ensure promotion as qucikly as possible to allow a little bit more experimentation.  I think the key is we need a utility player who can perform as a defender and as a defensive midfielder and they do not come cheap.  That is why the likes of Denis Odoi are worth their weight in gold to the Club.

[The Rational Fan]

Squad depth comes from a mix of wise buying and younger promise coming through the test of going up a level or two.  Poor purchases (and/or poor contracts) can and will block the natural flow for as long as a contract is enforceable and current.   That's the hard lesson FFC has had to learn since 2016.   Hopefully we have learned how to do things better.   As for permutations of both central and flank partnerships I would have expected that all tangible (and even some untangible) partnerships have been looked at in training...

...I am sure Silva and company have plenty of ideas of what they can do under less pressure to secure points and the key would be to ensure promotion as qucikly as possible to allow a little bit more experimentation.  I think the key is we need a utility player who can perform as a defender and as a defensive midfielder and they do not come cheap.  That is why the likes of Denis Odoi are worth their weight in gold to the Club.

Really well said.

[filham]

Squad depth comes from a mix of wise buying and younger promise coming through the test of going up a level or two.  Poor purchases (and/or poor contracts) can and will block the natural flow for as long as a contract is enforceable and current.   That's the hard lesson FFC has had to learn since 2016.   Hopefully we have learned how to do things better.   As for permutations of both central and flank partnerships I would have expected that all tangible (and even some untangible) partnerships have been looked at in training...

...I am sure Silva and company have plenty of ideas of what they can do under less pressure to secure points and the key would be to ensure promotion as qucikly as possible to allow a little bit more experimentation.  I think the key is we need a utility player who can perform as a defender and as a defensive midfielder and they do not come cheap.  That is why the likes of Denis Odoi are worth their weight in gold to the Club.

Really well said.

Yes, well said but it deflects from the main point which is that we have no real cover for the wide players. Take either Wilson or Kebano out and we are crippled and trying to run on one leg.The only possible option is Carvalho and he would be badly missed in his present role.

[toshes mate]

Squad depth comes from a mix of wise buying and younger promise coming through the test of going up a level or two.  Poor purchases (and/or poor contracts) can and will block the natural flow for as long as a contract is enforceable and current.   That's the hard lesson FFC has had to learn since 2016.   Hopefully we have learned how to do things better.   As for permutations of both central and flank partnerships I would have expected that all tangible (and even some untangible) partnerships have been looked at in training...

...I am sure Silva and company have plenty of ideas of what they can do under less pressure to secure points and the key would be to ensure promotion as qucikly as possible to allow a little bit more experimentation.  I think the key is we need a utility player who can perform as a defender and as a defensive midfielder and they do not come cheap.  That is why the likes of Denis Odoi are worth their weight in gold to the Club.

Really well said.

Yes, well said but it deflects from the main point which is that we have no real cover for the wide players. Take either Wilson or Kebano out and we are crippled and trying to run on one leg.The only possible option is Carvalho and he would be badly missed in his present role.

I don't believe we are as badly off as you suggest.  Kebano for example played right wing for Jokanovic.

I was a bit heavy handed with my utility player model suggestion - defender and defensive midfielder - since I was really getting at the point that utility or versatility in players is valuable, hence my reference to Denis Odoi (who I think we are already missing in many ways and not just his virtues as a player).   

Since we cannot risk spending as badly in summer 2022 as we did in summer 2018 (assumming we get promoted) we need to look at players who offer utility and perform well up to required standard in whatever role they are required to play.   We probably need perhaps two/three such players in the whole squad to cover options in defence, midfield and attack and not necessarily as starters. 

Odoi came to us ready utility/versatility prepared.  Perhaps others are discoverable by accident, design and/or necessity.   Silva's coaching team strikes me as a hugely versatile and intelligent bunch (it is also economical compared with a certain former head coach of ours who has something like eighteen staff I am told).   Depth of squad is not necessarily just down to individual player's strength - it is also the sum of the versatility within a bunch of players especially if there is versatility sitting on the bench.  It just provide options on a scale that could make a big difference over a season. 

I hope all of our coaches are involved in whatever recruitment business we intend to do and spread their nets as wide as possible.   That is why I favour wise buying and especially looking where other clubs may not be so interested in finding what they seek.     

[filham]

Sorry to labour the point but as yet I havn't had a good response to the problem of an injury to Wilson or Kebano.
BDR is our utility player but playing him in the wide left position as a failure.

[Whitesideup]

Sorry to labour the point but as yet I havn't had a good response to the problem of an injury to Wilson or Kebano.
BDR is our utility player but playing him in the wide left position as a failure.

Depends on the level of player. Championship or Premier League? Cavaleiro is still a good championship level player. Is he good enough for the Premier? Could Silva coach him and structure the team to get the most out of him? Just because he didn't fare too well centrally, leading the attack, would not rule him out of a wider position. And to be fair, we are not too sure how Kebano and Wilson would measure up in the Premier. 

[Sting of the North]

Sorry to labour the point but as yet I havn't had a good response to the problem of an injury to Wilson or Kebano.
BDR is our utility player but playing him in the wide left position as a failure.

Depends on the level of player. Championship or Premier League? Cavaleiro is still a good championship level player. Is he good enough for the Premier? Could Silva coach him and structure the team to get the most out of him? Just because he didn't fare too well centrally, leading the attack, would not rule him out of a wider position. And to be fair, we are not too sure how Kebano and Wilson would measure up in the Premier.

Good post.

We have Cavaleiro, BDR and Knockaert as experienced and proven back up options, not counting our promising youngsters. At Championship level that is more than good enough. A player such as Cavaleiro might be very good if he was given consistent game time.

Also worth remembering thart Kebano didn't really impress for the first part of the season, but has flourished with more consistent playing time and obvious high confidence. We might have never seen Kebano in his current form had not both BDR, Wilson and Cavaleiro missed game time (in some cases a significant amount) because of injuries and suspensions. Kebano produced virtually nothing in terms of goals or assists for the first 10 games or so but he was given many starts any way. Sometimes things just work out well, but there is no knowing how a player like Cavaleiro (who was selected to start several games before his lengthy injury spell) would have played given similar chances.   

Every team will be weaker if some of their better players gets injured, even the teams with good squad depth. Changes to the preferred eleven will change the fluidity of the team, at least short term. There is no way getting around it.

I guess my point is that our squad depth is more than good enough even in the attacking positions. In my opinion.

[Jim©]

Every team will be weaker if some of their better players gets injured, even the teams with good squad depth. Changes to the preferred eleven will change the fluidity of the team, at least short term. There is no way getting around it.

I guess my point is that our squad depth is more than good enough even in the attacking positions. In my opinion.

This is the crux of it. Spurs minus Kane, Liverpool minus Salah, Chelsea minus Kante. There's some players that you just won't replace because depth can only offer you also rans for those positions. Man City are perhaps the anomaly, but their squad is worth a £billion or so, which isn't going to be workable for 99.9% of teams.

[filham]

So if Kebano is still not fit for the QPR match who plays wide left.