Southgate has given himself an impossible task

[Willham]

Southgate is not the man to take england to the top level, a good middle ground manager but we're as far as Southgate can get us,

He's done a fantastic job, took a average international side (with good players) and got them to the upper levels, it has given his reputation a big jump, and while he should have left after world cup 2018 (he'd of walked into almost any club) he's stayed. Since, he's been dampening that reputation, with the nations league relegation and the failure to score from open play and the recent euros of only scoring from open play against poor sides like Iran, Wales and Senegal. But he has built a incredible foundation of which to build, but nations league and the world cup 22 has shown he is not the right man to get us past that wall.

Most half decent managers should be froffing at the mouth for the England job because whoever it would be has the easiest job on hand, give the players a little more freedom, allow everyone to push forward a little more and move the ball a little quicker and most importantly move forward over sideways, then boom! England will be a side who can get results against the top teams!

We literally have one of the very best teams on paper right now.

[filham]

Just hope he is prepared to make tactical changes from time to time, England haven't played badly recently but we have been so predictable.

[H4usuallysitting]

I'd like Rooney to take over, with Rosenior as his assistant....no idea how Rooney's getting on in the States, but he's a winner

[SG]

Nice guy, wears nice waistcoats, the players like him, the FA like him as he says the right things and doesn't rock the boat BUT he's a poor manager and coach. We will not win anything whilst he's in charge

[Somerset Fulham]

I think that we will win something with him in charge.

This is an England side that is a real and justified top level contender which should currently fear nobody and Southgate has helped hugely to shape that. And not only that but he has reconnected the England team with the public to levels that I don't think I've seen since Venables was in charge.

"but he was rubbish at club level" I hear the cries, but should that really matter after years of succesful campaigns and touraments? No we haven't won any yet, but we've been closer than we have been in the past 25 years or so and lets not forget that we have had a string of much better managers (based on club football) in charge of the team in that time.

Might do a poll about that now I've thought of it! 064.gif

[FFC1987]

I think that we will win something with him in charge.

This is an England side that is a real and justified top level contender which should currently fear nobody and Southgate has helped hugely to shape that. And not only that but he has reconnected the England team with the public to levels that I don't think I've seen since Venables was in charge.

"but he was rubbish at club level" I hear the cries, but should that really matter after years of succesful campaigns and touraments? No we haven't won any yet, but we've been closer than we have been in the past 25 years or so and lets not forget that we have had a string of much better managers (based on club football) in charge of the team in that time.

Might do a poll about that now I've thought of it! 064.gif

Yeh, I just don't agree with this really. Yes, he's done better than previous managers, but that's really a race to the bottom. He's had the best squad since the golden generation and has done alright. Certainly improved the position from where he started, but at that stage it was farcical and we've had a lot of emerged talent for him to pick since. The bit I'm really disagreeing with is, ' but should that really matter after years of successful campaigns and tournaments'. We haven't had success. We've been part of the conversation, but never taken the chance. The nations league, (yep, no one cares yarda yarda yarda) but we were relegated out of its top tier so we don't even have that to really aim for in terms of some kind of silverware. I'm yet to see expansive, exciting football that would warrant spending extortionate amounts to go to the stadium to watch, and everytime we seem to be asked the question, 'Can you beat this team who, on paper, are good?' we tend to fall flat, minus probably Germany in a previous tournament.

I don't mind that he hasn't earned his stripes in the Prem or at domestic level, he was given a job, and he rose to it. But I think that's as far as he can take it and I'd of liked a manager with a more rounded track record to play more progressive football, who would be excited by the likes of Elliott coming through, not feel the need to play IMO too defensively and use Kane as a QB rather than an out and out striker. Manager I'm thinking of is Howe who would be head and shoulders better than Southgate.

I don't think we'll win anything with him at the helm, and I think his excellent PR has clouded a lot of peoples judgements on him.

[Somerset Fulham]

I knew that you wouldn't agree.   064.gif

Good to see you back and about though mate.

[FFC1987]

I knew that you wouldn't agree.   064.gif

Good to see you back and about though mate.

haha Cheers!

He's around till the Euro's now so I'm hoping your position proves to be correct!

[General]

Some people really seem to have an agenda against Southgate and I really don't get it.

He's been the best England manager in over 40 years, arguably our best and has got the best results for England since we won the world cup.

How is that cause for dismissal and to give someone else who's untried the job?

Smacks of madness to me.

People need to be reminded that not only does only 1 country every four years actually ever win the world cup or similarly the euros, the list of teams that do win it is ridiculously small given the amount of countries that have participated (which is being expanded on).

Winning any trophy at international level is a unenviable task for anyone.

To date the world cup has only been won by European or South American countries.

In 22 tournaments only 8 teams have won a world cup out of over 80 countries that have competed and only 13 countries have ever played in a world cup final.

The teams that have done the best have also lost almost equal amounts of WC finals as they've won. Germany 4 wins and 4 losses, Argentina 3 wins and 3 losses.

Stop trying to undercut the successes we've been having and the learning we've been doing- we're the closest to getting it right than almost any time in our entire history.

Trust Gareth. He's the one who's done it, the FA and the players all even acknowledge this in public. He's the best man for the job and if he keeps this up then this group of players will win something at some point, or get very close to it because they are building that experience and skillset and mentality to deal with the big occasions and are showing that in their squad dynamics but also in the way we're playing. You just had to see us outplay France to know we're close and the fine margins.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIFA_World_Cup_finals

[Sammyffc]

Some people really seem to have an agenda against Southgate and I really don't get it.

He's been the best England manager in over 40 years, arguably our best and has got the best results for England since we won the world cup.

How is that cause for dismissal and to give someone else who's untried the job?

Smacks of madness to me.

People need to be reminded that not only does only 1 country every four years actually ever win the world cup or similarly the euros, the list of teams that do win it is ridiculously small given the amount of countries that have participated (which is being expanded on).

Winning any trophy at international level is a unenviable task for anyone.

To date the world cup has only been won by European or South American countries.

In 22 tournaments only 8 teams have won a world cup out of over 80 countries that have competed and only 13 countries have ever played in a world cup final.

The teams that have done the best have also lost almost equal amounts of WC finals as they've won. Germany 4 wins and 4 losses, Argentina 3 wins and 3 losses.

Stop trying to undercut the successes we've been having and the learning we've been doing- we're the closest to getting it right than almost any time in our entire history.

Trust Gareth. He's the one who's done it, the FA and the players all even acknowledge this in public. He's the best man for the job and if he keeps this up then this group of players will win something at some point, or get very close to it because they are building that experience and skillset and mentality to deal with the big occasions and are showing that in their squad dynamics but also in the way we're playing. You just had to see us outplay France to know we're close and the fine margins.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIFA_World_Cup_finals

Respectfully you have basically just said you are fine with being mediocre which i guess makes sense as we support fulham.

Our football is dreadful, his in game management is absolutely shocking ( he hasn't changed from the euros ) and he was the highest paid manager in international football, let me repeat that HIGHEST PAID and is now 2nd.

He has made close to 30 million in salary and won nothing.

Just because he has been the best doesn't mean we just keep him, if that logic was applied to anything else then nothing in the world would change or get better....

Why should we trust him? he has won us nothing.

[Willham]

Some people really seem to have an agenda against Southgate and I really don't get it.

He's been the best England manager in over 40 years, arguably our best and has got the best results for England since we won the world cup.

How is that cause for dismissal and to give someone else who's untried the job?

Smacks of madness to me.

People need to be reminded that not only does only 1 country every four years actually ever win the world cup or similarly the euros, the list of teams that do win it is ridiculously small given the amount of countries that have participated (which is being expanded on).

Winning any trophy at international level is a unenviable task for anyone.

To date the world cup has only been won by European or South American countries.

In 22 tournaments only 8 teams have won a world cup out of over 80 countries that have competed and only 13 countries have ever played in a world cup final.

The teams that have done the best have also lost almost equal amounts of WC finals as they've won. Germany 4 wins and 4 losses, Argentina 3 wins and 3 losses.

Stop trying to undercut the successes we've been having and the learning we've been doing- we're the closest to getting it right than almost any time in our entire history.

Trust Gareth. He's the one who's done it, the FA and the players all even acknowledge this in public. He's the best man for the job and if he keeps this up then this group of players will win something at some point, or get very close to it because they are building that experience and skillset and mentality to deal with the big occasions and are showing that in their squad dynamics but also in the way we're playing. You just had to see us outplay France to know we're close and the fine margins.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIFA_World_Cup_finals

Respectfully you have basically just said you are fine with being mediocre which i guess makes sense as we support fulham.

Our football is dreadful, his in game management is absolutely shocking ( he hasn't changed from the euros ) and he was the highest paid manager in international football, let me repeat that HIGHEST PAID and is now 2nd.

He has made close to 30 million in salary and won nothing.

Just because he has been the best doesn't mean we just keep him, if that logic was applied to anything else then nothing in the world would change or get better....

Why should we trust him? he has won us nothing.

+1 to this,

Beating sweden and a poor Germany side are the best results with arguable one of the best England sides,

We dont play to out strengths.

[RaySmith]

Seems to be an agenda against him, when he's been one of the most successful managers of recent times - look at the past, the likes of Sven, Capello paid huge salaries.
Venables was one of the best - but he was well dodgy in his personal life, while Big Sam didn't even make a game before his off-pitch activities found him out!

Southgate is like Venables in his  seeming rapport with the players, and is a decent bloke - a man of obvious integrity, and a good ambassador for the national team, who can deal well with the media and that buffer between them and the players, very important today.

But his results' record speaks for itself.

[Lester Burnham]

Some people really seem to have an agenda against Southgate and I really don't get it.

He's been the best England manager in over 40 years, arguably our best and has got the best results for England since we won the world cup.

How is that cause for dismissal and to give someone else who's untried the job?

Smacks of madness to me.

People need to be reminded that not only does only 1 country every four years actually ever win the world cup or similarly the euros, the list of teams that do win it is ridiculously small given the amount of countries that have participated (which is being expanded on).

Winning any trophy at international level is a unenviable task for anyone.

To date the world cup has only been won by European or South American countries.

In 22 tournaments only 8 teams have won a world cup out of over 80 countries that have competed and only 13 countries have ever played in a world cup final.

The teams that have done the best have also lost almost equal amounts of WC finals as they've won. Germany 4 wins and 4 losses, Argentina 3 wins and 3 losses.

Stop trying to undercut the successes we've been having and the learning we've been doing- we're the closest to getting it right than almost any time in our entire history.

Trust Gareth. He's the one who's done it, the FA and the players all even acknowledge this in public. He's the best man for the job and if he keeps this up then this group of players will win something at some point, or get very close to it because they are building that experience and skillset and mentality to deal with the big occasions and are showing that in their squad dynamics but also in the way we're playing. You just had to see us outplay France to know we're close and the fine margins.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIFA_World_Cup_finals

Respectfully you have basically just said you are fine with being mediocre which i guess makes sense as we support fulham.

Our football is dreadful, his in game management is absolutely shocking ( he hasn't changed from the euros ) and he was the highest paid manager in international football, let me repeat that HIGHEST PAID and is now 2nd.

He has made close to 30 million in salary and won nothing.

Just because he has been the best doesn't mean we just keep him, if that logic was applied to anything else then nothing in the world would change or get better....

Why should we trust him? he has won us nothing.

WTF was that garbled rant!! Southgate's salary?! The ONLY English manager to take us to a Euro final and a WC semi-final. 'Our football is dreadful'. I'll go out on a limb here, and say you're only happy when the National team fails.

[blingo]

Nice guy, wears nice waistcoats, the players like him, the FA like him as he says the right things and doesn't rock the boat BUT he's a poor manager and coach. We will not win anything whilst he's in charge

+1

[fulhamfever]

Lionel Scaloni - Position Defender
Trophies won - Copa America and Worldcup in the space of 2 years

Squad v Squad England have a better team than Argentina yet we cannot even win a Euro or a Worldcup since 1966

[Jim©]

I read most of these anti- Southgate posts wondering if most of you have forgotten how embarassingly rank average we've been in the last 40 years.
The football might not be our preferred brand- but I'd say that internationally it matters way less than our club that we watch week in week out.
Look at the methodical and robotic German teams that had success- they were dull to watch but great tournament teams- not unlike what we've become.

All this "we've got a better team than" is untrue IMO. We've got some rank average players that are built up to be special- Rice/Maguire/Shaw/Henderson/Stones (just to start)are not better than their counterparts in the Argentina team.
Which players get in that Argentina or French team? Bellingham? Who else? I can't think of one in all honesty.

Let's embrace the fact that other nations see us as a contender- they never used to.

[FFC1987]

I read most of these anti- Southgate posts wondering if most of you have forgotten how embarassingly rank average we've been in the last 40 years.
The football might not be our preferred brand- but I'd say that internationally it matters way less than our club that we watch week in week out.
Look at the methodical and robotic German teams that had success- they were dull to watch but great tournament teams- not unlike what we've become.

All this "we've got a better team than" is untrue IMO. We've got some rank average players that are built up to be special- Rice/Maguire/Shaw/Henderson/Stones (just to start)are not better than their counterparts in the Argentina team.
Which players get in that Argentina or French team? Bellingham? Who else? I can't think of one in all honesty.

Let's embrace the fact that other nations see us as a contender- they never used to.

Rice, Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Saka & Walker get into most teams. We have some excellent players who should be ahead of the likes of Maguire, Shaw and Henderson. They just aren't being picked which is down to the manager.

It's all well and good saying lines like 'you don't need to play pretty to win' but when you opt for that style of play, when you fail, it's made worse as you play turgid football, & lose.

I appreciate there's some 'Anti' Southgate posts, but he deserves criticism for failings, just like he deserves praise for his ability to clearly show how the teams progressed. I wouldn't say I'm 'Anti' Southgate, but I'd of liked to see us go a different direction. As I don't think he will and we'll remain content with being competitive but not successful. As for other nations seeing us as a contender....I don't think they do. No one really had us getting past the likely outcome of France in the QF's when the groups were set. And they were ultimately right. Maybe Southgate will change but seeing him just not fancy genuinely brilliant attacking players and making us sit with banks of average players just doesn't instil any sort of confidence.

As for 'people forget' argument, times moved on, Southgate has moved on us but the setup to promote and push up promising youth is showing fruition now, these are very different times, and we have some cracking managers at our deposal with great experience so not sure of the reluctance to use it is. We haven't been successful with Southgate, yet we haven't been dreadful either, we've been about mediocre to at times, good but not excellent. Something we should strive for.

[Jim©]

Rice, Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Saka & Walker get into most teams. We have some excellent players who should be ahead of the likes of Maguire, Shaw and Henderson. They just aren't being picked which is down to the manager.


As for 'people forget' argument, times moved on, Southgate has moved on us but the setup to promote and push up promising youth is showing fruition now, these are very different times, and we have some cracking managers at our deposal with great experience so not sure of the reluctance to use it is. We haven't been successful with Southgate, yet we haven't been dreadful either, we've been about mediocre to at times, good but not excellent. Something we should strive for.
[/quote]

Rice is average, he's an ok defensive mf. Certainly no better than Fernandez or Tchouameni. I've never watched a game with him in, ever, and thought what a class player. Unlike Bellingham.
Kane? I'd prefer Giroud/Mbappe or Alvarez who I thought was class.
Foden/Saka- again, didn't do much- unlike Di Maria/Messi> dembele was rank average though (until Muani came on).
Walker had a good WC and you could argue better than those comparatively.

Our media build hype around these players and we're meant to just swallow it. There's about 6 teams in the world who are similar player for player and we're one of them, but without the Messi/Neymar/Mbappe game changer.

[FFC1987]

Rice, Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Saka & Walker get into most teams. We have some excellent players who should be ahead of the likes of Maguire, Shaw and Henderson. They just aren't being picked which is down to the manager.


As for 'people forget' argument, times moved on, Southgate has moved on us but the setup to promote and push up promising youth is showing fruition now, these are very different times, and we have some cracking managers at our deposal with great experience so not sure of the reluctance to use it is. We haven't been successful with Southgate, yet we haven't been dreadful either, we've been about mediocre to at times, good but not excellent. Something we should strive for.

Rice is average, he's an ok defensive mf. Certainly no better than Fernandez or Tchouameni. I've never watched a game with him in, ever, and thought what a class player. Unlike Bellingham.
Kane? I'd prefer Giroud/Mbappe or Alvarez who I thought was class.
Foden/Saka- again, didn't do much- unlike Di Maria/Messi> dembele was rank average though (until Muani came on).
Walker had a good WC and you could argue better than those comparatively.

Our media build hype around these players and we're meant to just swallow it. There's about 6 teams in the world who are similar player for player and we're one of them, but without the Messi/Neymar/Mbappe game changer.
[/quote]

Rice won't stand out like others do, but he's an outstanding CM/DM. I'd have him above both Fernandez or Tchouameni personally. Foden and Saka are extremely talented players. The best? No, but on their day compete against anyone. I think part of my statement is, I think we can and should get more from these players who achieve much higher levels at club level than international. I think it's because of how we setup. The one thing I loved about watching Argentina, was how they acknowledge, their best players are mostly all up field (but defend very well) so they get the ball far quicker to the final third than we do. We tend to allow our most mediocre players to pass around with rather meaningless possession for too long. I'd love to see us just be more forward thinking rather than overly cautious.

Ultimately, I do agree with you on media build hype though. Recent memory, Phillips and Rashford come to mind. Good players, sure, but media comparing Rashford to say, Mbappe.......please!

[SG]

Seems to be an agenda against him, when he's been one of the most successful managers of recent times - look at the past, the likes of Sven, Capello paid huge salaries.
Venables was one of the best - but he was well dodgy in his personal life, while Big Sam didn't even make a game before his off-pitch activities found him out!

Southgate is like Venables in his  seeming rapport with the players, and is a decent bloke - a man of obvious integrity, and a good ambassador for the national team, who can deal well with the media and that buffer between them and the players, very important today.

But his results' record speaks for itself.

I agree he is a 'top' bloke liked by everyone. People seem to forget he is reaping the benefits of the massive investment by the FA in the academy system. The facts are that when we face the stronger teams we comfortably come second. Being the best manager for the last 40 years is irrelevant. He has the best resources of all of them and he is wasting it. No agenda against the bloke I just dont think he is a very good coach. We should play to our strengths - our forwards - and take the game to the opposition rather than sit back and move the ball slowly between the centre halves and full backs. The outcome of this world cup was so predictable. Many of us were expecting a defeat by France in the quarters if it went to plan.
I repeat in my view we will not win anything whilst he is in charge.