What to do with Vinicius …

[howitis]

Not sure what we are paying this lad but whatever the amount it's far too much !!!

I really do think we have seen enough of this player now to know he adds nothing to the squad. Absolutely hopeless again yesterday.

A large man unable to impose himself in any way on the game. Rarely wins a header, largely immobile and the first touch of an elephant. His passing yesterday even when not under close attention was shocking.

Silva got it bang on yesterday with both HT subs with Harris still some way off being able to make the step up.

What is worrying is that we clearly do not have a back up to Mitrovic that  can pose even 50% of his threat or offer an alternative way of playing.

Other concerns include Solomon disappearance after 20 mins, another weak performance from Wilson and the defensive frailty of Kurwaza.

On the positive side it was beautiful to watch Cairney in full flow yesterday 1st half. You have to admire his artistry it really is the beautiful game. So disappointing that he took a knock as that is the fittest I have seen him in a long time. Also hats off to Duffy who put in a really passionate and decisive performance setting uk the 3rd and preventing a Sunderland equaliser.

Enjoyed seeing Mitro reaction at the final whistle - clearly means a lot.

[FreiBird]

Yawn.

Vinicius assist, fouled non stop off the ball which threw off his game. Pure scum by them.

Wilson was great , can see confidence is coming back.

Solomon shredded them, just needs to get back to game speed.

Just make stuff up to moan about.

[Motspur Park]

Just to add couldn't believe the decision where the defender had a handful of Vini's shirt and was pulling him all over the place only for the ref to give a foul against Vini. Incredible decision.

[howitis]

Yawn.

Vinicius assist, fouled non stop off the ball which threw off his game. Pure scum by them.

Wilson was great , can see confidence is coming back.

Solomon shredded them, just needs to get back to game speed.

Just make stuff up to moan about.

Was the reason he was subbed because 2 young central defenders from championship Sunderland "threw him off his game"

You are clueless but to be fair at least your half glass full ..

[Bassey the warrior]

My main issue with Vinicius is his hold up play, when he receives the ball too often it bounces straight off him, it's like pinball. Solomon was excellent until he tired. Kurzawa excellent going forward, a bit shaky at the back at times but so was Robinson many times last year. Like Robinson I expect him to defend better the more game time he gets. Wilson did well apart from his wasteful shooting.

[jeremyfulham]

So no credit for the assist? If you are the type that loves to critisize at least be balanced and give the player credit where its due.

[General]

Yawn.

Vinicius assist, fouled non stop off the ball which threw off his game. Pure scum by them.

Wilson was great , can see confidence is coming back.

Solomon shredded them, just needs to get back to game speed.

Just make stuff up to moan about.

Was the reason he was subbed because 2 young central defenders from championship Sunderland "threw him off his game"

You are clueless but to be fair at least your half glass full ..

You're clearly a debby downer and have missed the key bit that he physically held off their defenders and got an assist for our opening goal.

I still think, had Wilson threaded the ball through to him (on wilson's first missed attempt post goal) then there was a good chance Vini would've scored.

That can be seen on the 45 second mark of the highlights here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnsBTkEmeRg

Vini was in the middle of the box, had beaten his man and had he been played in, would've been on his strongest foot shooting wise. That's Wilson's fault in my book, not Vini's.


In fact, if you actually think about it - Vini's record in the last three games he's played in (the Chelsea home match and the two FA Cup matches), is one goal and an assist.

He's becoming a more likeable version of Zamora when he first joined. Zamora offered much more to our game than people ever wanted to admit, but wasn't scoring the goals people wanted to see. Be patient, give him time to succeed. Your angst is just because he is our only real backup to Mitro, which is a tall order and one the club haven't properly addressed.

He's got the ability I feel, just needs more time to gain confidence and actual playing time.

If you look at his stats he's played a full league 90 for us just THREE times and another game he played 80 minutes - two of those three times were against Man City and Man Utd, another of them was against Chelsea, where he scored the winner.

Over the other TEN games he's had some minutes, he's accumulated a total across them of *83* minutes.. that's on average 8.5 minutes a game. I'd like to see anyone do well with that average amount of time playing in the PL.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/carlos-vinicius/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/525287/plus/0?saison=2022&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=

If you take out the Newcastle game where he played for 53 minutes, then over 9 games he's played a total of 25 (TWENTY FIVE) minutes which equates to TWO - THREE MINUTES a game.

You can't possibly say he's been given a fair crack and that you can pass judgement so severely given those stats.

[mrmicawbers]

Can't see what the problem with the fella is.Hes obviously not getting enough game time but doesn't seem to rock the boat being Mitros understudy.Scored the winner against Chelsea and assisted the goal last night.Whats not to like

[Maidstone Lee]

Cult hero status for the winner against Chelsea but next season think we have to look at a better option. Someone who can push Mitro for the starting spot, Vini doesn't offer that much unfortunately.

[Sting of the North]

I agree that he still haven't had proper time to really show us what he potentially can do. However, I also agree that he contributes very little in our overall play. He has so far (with probably the exception of the Chelsea game) been a very poor outlet, with balls bouncing off him the few times he gets first to it. This bascically takes away a passing option. He also almost never win headers, and most of the time it looks as if he's not even putting the defenders under pressure. He also doesn't really offer any runs in behind. So, even though the assist was good, I think that playing him so far has really limited our way of playing as he almost doesn't participate. I assume he tries hard, but it just doesn't really come across that way.

Still hope he comes good though, seem a likeable character.

[General]

I agree that he still haven't had proper time to really show us what he potentially can do. However, I also agree that he contributes very little in our overall play. He has so far (with probably the exception of the Chelsea game) been a very poor outlet, with balls bouncing off him the few times he gets first to it. This bascically takes away a passing option. He also almost never win headers, and most of the time it looks as if he's not even putting the defenders under pressure. He also doesn't really offer any runs in behind. So, even though the assist was good, I think that playing him so far has really limited our way of playing as he almost doesn't participate. I assume he tries hard, but it just doesn't really come across that way.

Still hope he comes good though, seem a likeable character.

I think he'd be better suited to a 4-4-2 role, with another striker up with him (could be BDR for example) who plays off Vini.

[JimOG]

Can't see what the problem with the fella is.Hes obviously not getting enough game time but doesn't seem to rock the boat being Mitros understudy.Scored the winner against Chelsea and assisted the goal last night.Whats not to like

It's good to come on here the morning after and read a more balanced set of opinions (than the ones going on in my head!). Vinicius frustrates me but so too does Tosin. I think it's because they are such big men but neither imposes himself on opponents or the game. I therefore miss moments where they should be credited. That said I was very disappointed in the latter last night.

[H4usuallysitting]

Thought he set up a goal, and caused them problems at the back....looked fine to me, especially his celebration when Wilson scored

[Bassey the warrior]

So no credit for the assist? If you are the type that loves to critisize at least be balanced and give the player credit where its due.

Good point, I'd forgotten about that.

[Deeping_white]

He tried some good stuff last night but it didn't always come off so you could say it was marginal and went against him. The ref also did him no favours whatsoever because most of the times he was going up to challenge for a 50/50 from a long ball, the Sunderland CB's would basically be ripping his shirt off his back so he couldn't do anything & at one point he was penalised for a foul when the replay showed the defender had dragged him around by his shirt. He's basically being asked to play as a target man as a backup to the best target man in the league so he's obviously going to look worse.

[colinwhite]

I agree that he still haven't had proper time to really show us what he potentially can do. However, I also agree that he contributes very little in our overall play. He has so far (with probably the exception of the Chelsea game) been a very poor outlet, with balls bouncing off him the few times he gets first to it. This bascically takes away a passing option. He also almost never win headers, and most of the time it looks as if he's not even putting the defenders under pressure. He also doesn't really offer any runs in behind. So, even though the assist was good, I think that playing him so far has really limited our way of playing as he almost doesn't participate. I assume he tries hard, but it just doesn't really come across that way.

Still hope he comes good though, seem a likeable character.

I think he'd be better suited to a 4-4-2 role, with another striker up with him (could be BDR for example) who plays off Vini.

Seen similar suggestions on other posts. Silva is never going to go 442 when we have the ball. Im not saying that you are wrong just that I can't see it happening .

[FFC In Oz]

Cult hero status for the winner against Chelsea but next season think we have to look at a better option. Someone who can push Mitro for the starting spot, Vini doesn't offer that much unfortunately.

I think he'd be pretty handy to keep around as a 3rd striking option.  Agree that we need someone who is capable of pushing Mitro though to be a 2nd option - ideally someone who could play wide or alongside Mitro too.

[Nero]

He adds hes half decent and is willing to be back up for Mitro and sit on the bench week in week out,

[Sammyffc]

I always feel like we are crying out for a Andy Johnson type of striker, just to mix it up. Swapping Mitro for Vinny is like a french baguette for Hovis

[toshes mate]

I am in the 'What is he doing out there?' camp.  For sure he now has a goal and an assist but the effort last night as a player with a role to play confused me rotten.  S-O-T-N covers what I saw quite accurately above and what confounds me is why?   Why can't he pressure defenders when we are not in possession et cetera ...  I just do not get him at all.  And those balls bouncing off him ... is hard to take.