Women goalkeepers

[jayffc]

I was shocked the Colombian goal went in.

It's not unreasonable or mysoginistic (or trying to be so) to say so

It was crap keeping and my god the 1st England goal was even worse, not that this relates to goal size though. More just a skill pool issue. The GK who came off the bench for Columbia was 5 foot 4!!! I woulda been telling the lionesses to shoot from anywhere!

[Lighthouse]

But we can't and should never go by an average. Les Green was a keeper for Derby at five foot eight inch. The Women's game has keepers of six foot and more. A sensible conversation is fine and the debate is fine but ultimately misguided.

Do we have to make everything smaller in Womens sport? How far do we go. Do we decide only on the average of height and weight. Sorry but it is a non debate. It reminds me of the old argument that men had when they said Women were not equipped to run long distances.

Sport should not be messed about to suit the average height and weight of society. Otherwise over the years the goal and the rest would increase as the average height grew higher.

[filham]

If the goals are made smaller then it would be required to move the penalty spot closer to the goal, the next requirement would be for a smaller pitch.

[jayffc]

But we can't and should never go by an average. Les Green was a keeper for Derby at five foot eight inch. The Women's game has keepers of six foot and more. A sensible conversation is fine and the debate is fine but ultimately misguided.

Do we have to make everything smaller in Womens sport? How far do we go. Do we decide only on the average of height and weight. Sorry but it is a non debate. It reminds me of the old argument that men had when they said Women were not equipped to run long distances.

Sport should not be messed about to suit the average height and weight of society. Otherwise over the years the goal and the rest would increase as the average height grew higher.

Averages do matter

There might be a few 6 footers but the percentage of 6ft female athletes is comparibly way lower compared to the male. Counterparts whom the game was designed around... so the talent pool is even smaller to pick from of "tall women"

Its the same for both teams of course but of the opinion it'd be more competitive with suitable net sizes but at least thanks for proving reasonable and interesting counterpoint

[Palhinha Colada]

Goalkeeping is the biggest difference between the men's and women's versions of the sport. Women keepers, to this point, just aren't tall or explosive enough athletically. That doesn't mean there aren't some good ones.

[H4usuallysitting]

Earps is normally very reliable and her positioning was just slightly wrong this time - like male keepers sometimes. She made a similar save later. She often catches where men might punch and needs no concessions in my view.

She also made a couple of balls ups and made a big save our of something that should have been a comfortable catch... But that's fine, keepers do that male or female

Didn't Seaman get done by a cross/shot thing

Unsurprisingly the comments are filled with shining knights acting like it's not an issue that women are generally several inches shorter than their counterparts or that suggesting an adjustment of the post is some patronising patriachal mysogonistic comment

It's not
Woman are generally shorter.

I enjoy the women's football enough to watch the major tournaments, the games come on leaps and bounds... but the goalkeeping situation is a real thing. The level is poor, and that's fine nothing can be done about that it's just a matter of talent pool depth, and something that will improve the more people play the sport. Great... But...

They are naturally at a major disadvantage no matter their positioning.

Average female 5ft 4
Average male 5ft 9

It just " is what it is "

No need to take it as an opportunity to prove ones virtue for crying out loud. Trying to have a perfectly reasonable discussion about the topic

Do what

Sell routine saves and make them look more dramatic than they really are

In pre season the wet spam (male) goalkeeper let in a goal shot from the half way line.... nothing to do with how tall he is, if your wrong footed, your wrong footed.....look at Sir Joe Bryan's goal against Brentford

[Lighthouse]

But we can't and should never go by an average. Les Green was a keeper for Derby at five foot eight inch. The Women's game has keepers of six foot and more. A sensible conversation is fine and the debate is fine but ultimately misguided.

Do we have to make everything smaller in Womens sport? How far do we go. Do we decide only on the average of height and weight. Sorry but it is a non debate. It reminds me of the old argument that men had when they said Women were not equipped to run long distances.

Sport should not be messed about to suit the average height and weight of society. Otherwise over the years the goal and the rest would increase as the average height grew higher.

Averages do matter

There might be a few 6 footers but the percentage of 6ft female athletes is comparibly way lower compared to the male. Counterparts whom the game was designed around... so the talent pool is even smaller to pick from of "tall women"

Its the same for both teams of course but of the opinion it'd be more competitive with suitable net sizes but at least thanks for proving reasonable and interesting counterpoint

Well I vehemently disagree but interesting debate. Now off to make tennis courts smaller, Rubgy pitches smaller, off to measure the average school boy and girl so we have different size pitches and goals.

[jayffc]

But we can't and should never go by an average. Les Green was a keeper for Derby at five foot eight inch. The Women's game has keepers of six foot and more. A sensible conversation is fine and the debate is fine but ultimately misguided.

Do we have to make everything smaller in Womens sport? How far do we go. Do we decide only on the average of height and weight. Sorry but it is a non debate. It reminds me of the old argument that men had when they said Women were not equipped to run long distances.

Sport should not be messed about to suit the average height and weight of society. Otherwise over the years the goal and the rest would increase as the average height grew higher.

Averages do matter

There might be a few 6 footers but the percentage of 6ft female athletes is comparibly way lower compared to the male. Counterparts whom the game was designed around... so the talent pool is even smaller to pick from of "tall women"

Its the same for both teams of course but of the opinion it'd be more competitive with suitable net sizes but at least thanks for proving reasonable and interesting counterpoint

Well I vehemently disagree but interesting debate. Now off to make tennis courts smaller, Rubgy pitches smaller, off to measure the average school boy and girl so we have different size pitches and goals.

Strawman

They don't have to make the pitches smaller they can get around them just fine it's not the same thing

There's a difference between that and the height of a goal and if its not blindingly  obvious then yes... Well disagree vehemently no worries.

Same in the NBA, they should lower the nets... Because the woman can't jump that high, and so they can't dunk... And so it sucks to watch. It's just nature. Doesn't need to be condescending it's understanding there are differences in male and female biology and adjusting to make it relative. No one complaining about women playing less sets in tennis either and that's not even about the size of the court. It's all relative to the indivual sport, no need to make it about any other situation.

Some sports it works for it all to be the same, some I think would benefit from slight adjustments to cater for the very obvious average biological differences.

And the kids addition a further strawman deflection BTW but ill leave it at that

[jayffc]

Earps is normally very reliable and her positioning was just slightly wrong this time - like male keepers sometimes. She made a similar save later. She often catches where men might punch and needs no concessions in my view.

She also made a couple of balls ups and made a big save our of something that should have been a comfortable catch... But that's fine, keepers do that male or female

Didn't Seaman get done by a cross/shot thing

Unsurprisingly the comments are filled with shining knights acting like it's not an issue that women are generally several inches shorter than their counterparts or that suggesting an adjustment of the post is some patronising patriachal mysogonistic comment

It's not
Woman are generally shorter.

I enjoy the women's football enough to watch the major tournaments, the games come on leaps and bounds... but the goalkeeping situation is a real thing. The level is poor, and that's fine nothing can be done about that it's just a matter of talent pool depth, and something that will improve the more people play the sport. Great... But...

They are naturally at a major disadvantage no matter their positioning.

Average female 5ft 4
Average male 5ft 9

It just " is what it is "

No need to take it as an opportunity to prove ones virtue for crying out loud. Trying to have a perfectly reasonable discussion about the topic

Do what

Sell routine saves and make them look more dramatic than they really are

In pre season the wet spam (male) goalkeeper let in a goal shot from the half way line.... nothing to do with how tall he is, if your wrong footed, your wrong footed.....look at Sir Joe Bryan's goal against Brentford

The point is a more general one about disadvantage in ability and ease to reach the extremities of the goal with the general biological differences... Aren't as a tall, can't jump as high on average

Anyway
I'll move on

[H4usuallysitting]

Earps is normally very reliable and her positioning was just slightly wrong this time - like male keepers sometimes. She made a similar save later. She often catches where men might punch and needs no concessions in my view.

She also made a couple of balls ups and made a big save our of something that should have been a comfortable catch... But that's fine, keepers do that male or female

Didn't Seaman get done by a cross/shot thing

Unsurprisingly the comments are filled with shining knights acting like it's not an issue that women are generally several inches shorter than their counterparts or that suggesting an adjustment of the post is some patronising patriachal mysogonistic comment

It's not
Woman are generally shorter.

I enjoy the women's football enough to watch the major tournaments, the games come on leaps and bounds... but the goalkeeping situation is a real thing. The level is poor, and that's fine nothing can be done about that it's just a matter of talent pool depth, and something that will improve the more people play the sport. Great... But...

They are naturally at a major disadvantage no matter their positioning.

Average female 5ft 4
Average male 5ft 9

It just " is what it is "

No need to take it as an opportunity to prove ones virtue for crying out loud. Trying to have a perfectly reasonable discussion about the topic

Do what

Sell routine saves and make them look more dramatic than they really are

In pre season the wet spam (male) goalkeeper let in a goal shot from the half way line.... nothing to do with how tall he is, if your wrong footed, your wrong footed.....look at Sir Joe Bryan's goal against Brentford

The point is a more general one about disadvantage in ability and ease to reach the extremities of the goal with the general biological differences... Aren't as a tall, can't jump as high on average

Anyway
I'll move on

So, you're saying, nothing to do with being wrong footed

[Lighthouse]

Another point to the ludicrous idea of having different size goals is that the money spent on different size goals for boys and girls and men and women will prohibit the playing of the game by women and girls.

[FulhamKC]

Interestingly (to me at least) is that the basketball is smaller in the women's game but the court is the same size and the rims at the same heighth. I believe the soccer ball is the same size regardless of gender.

[jayffc]

Earps is normally very reliable and her positioning was just slightly wrong this time - like male keepers sometimes. She made a similar save later. She often catches where men might punch and needs no concessions in my view.

She also made a couple of balls ups and made a big save our of something that should have been a comfortable catch... But that's fine, keepers do that male or female

Didn't Seaman get done by a cross/shot thing

Unsurprisingly the comments are filled with shining knights acting like it's not an issue that women are generally several inches shorter than their counterparts or that suggesting an adjustment of the post is some patronising patriachal mysogonistic comment

It's not
Woman are generally shorter.

I enjoy the women's football enough to watch the major tournaments, the games come on leaps and bounds... but the goalkeeping situation is a real thing. The level is poor, and that's fine nothing can be done about that it's just a matter of talent pool depth, and something that will improve the more people play the sport. Great... But...

They are naturally at a major disadvantage no matter their positioning.

Average female 5ft 4
Average male 5ft 9

It just " is what it is "

No need to take it as an opportunity to prove ones virtue for crying out loud. Trying to have a perfectly reasonable discussion about the topic

Do what

Sell routine saves and make them look more dramatic than they really are

In pre season the wet spam (male) goalkeeper let in a goal shot from the half way line.... nothing to do with how tall he is, if your wrong footed, your wrong footed.....look at Sir Joe Bryan's goal against Brentford

The point is a more general one about disadvantage in ability and ease to reach the extremities of the goal with the general biological differences... Aren't as a tall, can't jump as high on average

Anyway
I'll move on

So, you're saying, nothing to do with being wrong footed

No that's not what I said anywhere

Something to do with it in this specific case but both things a contributing factor

[jayffc]

Interestingly (to me at least) is that the basketball is smaller in the women's game but the court is the same size and the rims at the same heighth. I believe the soccer ball is the same size regardless of gender.

Presumably smaller hands statistically?

Sorry how dare I... Must be mysogony probs

...
But in all seriousness if true that is interesting that they'd do one thing  acknowledging biological differences but not the other.

[jayffc]

Another point to the ludicrous idea of having different size goals is that the money spent on different size goals for boys and girls and men and women will prohibit the playing of the game by women and girls.

Ludicrous is acting like you can't see an argument for it at all, that feels like such a disengenious starting point personally but alright

The cost I could somewhat understand at least, because that's reasonable to debate about accessibility (Although there are plenty pitches in the world with smaller sized goals so... I dunno about that tbh)

But acting like there's no possible reason for the suggestion is almost akin to acting like woman aren't naturally shorter than men. It doesn't need to be a big emotional argument but it gets drawn into this anti biology thing where people think it "sounds like" ya being condescending or anti woman... When ya just basing an opinion off of a biological fact

But that's the Internet.

[Eton White]

Well I vehemently disagree but interesting debate. Now off to make tennis courts smaller, Rubgy pitches smaller, off to measure the average school boy and girl so we have different size pitches and goals.

This is an interesting discussion, and while I don't think there's any need to reduce the size of goals in women's football, there are other sports that do take into account the differences in men's and women's physiology.

The most obvious example is athletics. Hurdles are lower for women in both the 400m hurdles and the high hurdles (which incidentally is run at different distances for men and women to account for differences in stride length - 110m vs 100m) and steeplechase barriers are also lower for women. In the throwing events, the shot put and hammer are lighter for women and the javelin is both lighter and shorter for women than for men.

You could argue whether these variations are necessary, but there are plenty of examples of sports where the difference in men's and women's physical stature and strength are taken into account.

[jayffc]

Well I vehemently disagree but interesting debate. Now off to make tennis courts smaller, Rubgy pitches smaller, off to measure the average school boy and girl so we have different size pitches and goals.

This is an interesting discussion, and while I don't think there's any need to reduce the size of goals in women's football, there are other sports that do take into account the differences in men's and women's physiology.

The most obvious example is athletics. Hurdles are lower for women in both the 400m hurdles and the high hurdles (which incidentally is run at different distances for men and women to account for differences in stride length - 110m vs 100m) and steeplechase barriers are also lower for women. In the throwing events, the shot put and hammer are lighter for women and the javelin is both lighter and shorter for women than for men.

You could argue whether these variations are necessary, but there are plenty of examples of sports where the difference in men's and women's physical stature and strength are taken into account.

Exactly

Thank you

It's almost like the athletics board understand there are clear biological differences and so change the apparatus accordingly without anyone taking offence at it in relevant sports.

Acting like it's a "ludicrous" suggestion to take into account clear and factual biological disadvantages for female GKs playing in same sizes goals, or framing it as belittling is so predicatably and tiresomely virtuous when there's no need for it

There is legitimate precedent for it being taken into account.

Appreciate you feel you wouldn't change the goalposts personally, I would, but that's fine at least ya get where the suggestion comes from.

For me it makes sense to adjust the game to the key biological realities.


Women's volleyball nets are lower and less wide than men's - why

Same for badminton men's nets higher and wider... Why

Often a woman's par 5 is a man's Par 4 on the same professional golf course - why

Etc etc.

There are legitimate and obvious reasons why and people acting like they don't exist is so over the top. Ya might not agree and think it's fine as it is, as in this case . Personally I think it'd improve the women's game but hey... I'm just being condescending apparently.

[Holders]

But we can't and should never go by an average. Les Green was a keeper for Derby at five foot eight inch. The Women's game has keepers of six foot and more. A sensible conversation is fine and the debate is fine but ultimately misguided.

Do we have to make everything smaller in Womens sport? How far do we go. Do we decide only on the average of height and weight. Sorry but it is a non debate. It reminds me of the old argument that men had when they said Women were not equipped to run long distances.

Sport should not be messed about to suit the average height and weight of society. Otherwise over the years the goal and the rest would increase as the average height grew higher.

Averages do matter

There might be a few 6 footers but the percentage of 6ft female athletes is comparibly way lower compared to the male. Counterparts whom the game was designed around... so the talent pool is even smaller to pick from of "tall women"

Its the same for both teams of course but of the opinion it'd be more competitive with suitable net sizes but at least thanks for proving reasonable and interesting counterpoint

Well I vehemently disagree but interesting debate. Now off to make tennis courts smaller, Rubgy pitches smaller, off to measure the average school boy and girl so we have different size pitches and goals.

Good point about school children. For a time during growth, girls are taller than boys on average so goals should be made smaller for boys for those years. Or maybe we should measure and adjust for the average heights of various nationalities when competing. E.g. Japan vs. Sweden.

[SG]

Just for reference our recreational Adult Women's League Cricket uses a slightly lighter and smaller ball than the Men's - 5 ounce ball against a 5.5 ounce one. No idea if this continues in the professional game though

[Woolly Mammoth]

If the goals are made smaller then it would be required to move the penalty spot closer to the goal, the next requirement would be for a smaller pitch.

and a smaller ball, and a smaller referee and a smaller red and yellow card, and a smaller crowd, and a smaller dugout, and a smaller football report, and smaller dressing rooms.

By the way i don't hear any ladies complaining about goal sizes.