Fulham Supporters Trust and others announce fan ticketing protest ahead of Man u

[SuffolkWhite]

I can't remember if I asked this before,
is it possible to have a supporters group where everyone puts in money and season tickets are bought and then distributed to those signed up to the scheme. It would help fan's like me who can't attend all matches in a season and mean the price was not exorbitant.

I know I know, someone would have to organise it.

I share a ticket this season and at the moment it works,but I do feel sorry for fan's who only come to 5  to 7 games a season.

[Twig]

''the FST, elected by 1% of the FFC fanbase. have decided WITHOUT (key point) a vote from paying members!''

Valid point, i don't really have an opinion on the FST however over the years i don't seem to recall them achieving anything at all. I don't know the reasons for it, but they do seem ' from the outside ' a bit of a joke

to be fair this is a valid point.

It's

''the FST, elected by 1% of the FFC fanbase. have decided WITHOUT (key point) a vote from paying members!''

Valid point, i don't really have an opinion on the FST however over the years i don't seem to recall them achieving anything at all. I don't know the reasons for it, but they do seem ' from the outside ' a bit of a joke

It's not about that at all in my opinion, and I think you're missing the point on a number of levels.

Firstly, the FST are the clubs closest outlet to fans with regular meetings with the club. They are representing our interests (which the ticket prices is definitely one), secondly the protest has been agreed by most major fan related organisations, including friends of fulham.

The FST have stated why they think it's relevant to do this now as the club aren't listening to them, despite the FST doing a quite substantial poll about prices with quite clear issues from the fan base.

Exactly, this protest has been supported by several Fulham groups, it's not just a FST initiative.

Frankly some people just like to criticise but make no constructive suggestions and never offer their time or get involved. It's dead easy to lob in criticism but takes a lot more to add something constructive. Exactly the same at my golf club, 10% do most of the volunteering, 80% are the quiet majority and 10% do nothing but moan.

[Twig]

I can't remember if I asked this before,
is it possible to have a supporters group where everyone puts in money and season tickets are bought and then distributed to those signed up to the scheme. It would help fan's like me who can't attend all matches in a season and mean the price was not exorbitant.

I know I know, someone would have to organise it.

I share a ticket this season and at the moment it works,but I do feel sorry for fan's who only come to 5  to 7 games a season.

That's an interesting idea, it would need to be organised by an official group like the FST. However I suspect there will be practical reasons that stand in its way.

[SuffolkWhite]

I can't remember if I asked this before,
is it possible to have a supporters group where everyone puts in money and season tickets are bought and then distributed to those signed up to the scheme. It would help fan's like me who can't attend all matches in a season and mean the price was not exorbitant.

I know I know, someone would have to organise it.

I share a ticket this season and at the moment it works,but I do feel sorry for fan's who only come to 5  to 7 games a season.

That's an interesting idea, it would need to be organised by an official group like the FST. However I suspect there will be practical reasons that stand in its way.

It's that or you get 3 or 4 fans share a season ticket from a forum like this one.

[Kemosabe]

It's a great idea in theory.

In reality, however, there are some fairly chunky obstacles.

This extract (from the 2023/24 Season Ticket FAQs) is a prime example:

BEGINS
Can I share my Season Ticket with a friend?
Season Tickets are for the sole use of the named supporter. If you are unable to attend a game and would like a friend to use your ticket, you will need to request this in writing by emailing [email protected] so a match ticket can be issued.

Please note there is a £5 charge for this service. An upgrade price is applicable if a concession season ticket is passed to an adult.

ENDS

Going back a few years I think that there was an explicit right to allow a family member or friend to use your ticket (provided you didn't charge a mark-up on the face value).  But they dropped that a while back.

I suspect that the club would start to withhold consent if they thought there was an organised ticket-sharing scheme being set up by e.g. FST.

[Roberty]

I suspect it is a safety net, just as no pets is a condition of most residential leases.

If the pet is not well behaved, someone will complain to the managing agent and you or the pet is OUT

Realistically, how are they going to know who actually attends the match, unless the person misbehaves and is apprehended by a steward or the police.. In which case they then have the right to take your season ticket away from you.

I know that Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs season ticket cards as sold online to tourists to attend individual games. They receive the card on the evening before the game, by courier, with the strict instruction not to tell anyone. The envelope has a return envelope inside with the instruction to leave it at the hotel reception after the match.

With 24k people entering the ground, how can they check everyone's ID. Also - in the UK - we do not have ID cards - so there is nothing to check and not everyone has a driving license.

So if two or three people are sharing a card no one will know. I had two adult season tickets, even though I was retired and could claim the concession, for H1 before I left the UK. I could take a friend and also lend them to friends, So maybe it is better for a small group to have two season tickets rather then one.

[jarv]

This is all now daylight robbery.

When I lived in USA I could watch every Fulham (premier) game live on my sports channel. They showed every match and all you had to do was click on the one you want. (or record it).  The cost was peanuts.

Now back in the UK, living in Scotland,  I was hoping to come south to the cottage about 5 or 6 times.

Given the ticket prices (I can afford it but principal kicks in) I have lost a bit of desire to watch Fulham, supporter since 1960.  I found myself not even caring (that is a first) when we lost 2-0 to Chelsea. My gut feeling is, oh well, Fulham dont care about supporters. I also feel, perhaps if we get relegated, we will all get our Fulham back.

I think I can speak for many,  WE WANT OUR FULHAM BACK.  Yanks out!

[Rupert]

I think I can speak for many,  WE WANT OUR FULHAM BACK.  Yanks out!

I fully appreciate that this is a cry from the heart, and I know you are a lifelong, dedicated supporter. I too rarely get to games any longer. However, the Fulham you want back no longer exists.

It disappeared around about 1996. It could come back, if we ditched the desire to stay in the top two divisions and were happy to go back to travelling to the likes of Wigan and Crewe, lovely away days where we rarely won, but were usually fun. And i accept that you speak for many who want that.

The problem is, we are the old guard, and old guards trend to be a dying breed. The newcomers, the youngsters, the cocaine snorting idiots who do that limbs nonsense, they will pay the money and not give a stuff about pricing others out. They will demand a place in the top flight. Watch them scream out for a top striker to be bought in the next transfer window. Watch them demand a push for a Europa spot next season. You do not speak for them, and they are growing in number.

And that, I am afraid, is why this protest will not achieve anything of note, in my opinion. Just look at how long the Manchester United old breed have been calling for the Glaziers to go, and what have they achieved?

[Jimmy Hill]

Just want to reply to argument that the khans have put in Millions argument.

I general explantion of this business model is you buy a football club for x amount of money.

Invest millions into the club which can be shown as a loss which can be used to reduce your tax liability ( this is very important to understand). 

Convert Debt in shares.

Increase Value of Football team either by player trading or improve football ground/ Comercial revenue(aka ticket prices).

Once club is at maximum value Sell for "more" than invested. This Doesent have to be for "more" as the savings on tax could most likley make the venture worthwhile.

This isnt uncommon with Football teams these days and maybe a fact of life if you want such large invest into the club. I just dont like the angle that they have done us a massive favour as its definitly a two way street for us letting them use our club as a huge tax write off to increase there wealth.

I personally think a football team is at its strongest when they have a social conscious. Eg running the club for its members ( The Fans) Not just so a rich man can get richer. The two can exsist and its up to us to protest that this happens. Or we will forever just be customers not members of this club.

 

 

[Twig]

This is all now daylight robbery.

When I lived in USA I could watch every Fulham (premier) game live on my sports channel. They showed every match and all you had to do was click on the one you want. (or record it).  The cost was peanuts.

Now back in the UK, living in Scotland,  I was hoping to come south to the cottage about 5 or 6 times.

Given the ticket prices (I can afford it but principal kicks in) I have lost a bit of desire to watch Fulham, supporter since 1960.  I found myself not even caring (that is a first) when we lost 2-0 to Chelsea. My gut feeling is, oh well, Fulham dont care about supporters. I also feel, perhaps if we get relegated, we will all get our Fulham back.

I think I can speak for many,  WE WANT OUR FULHAM BACK.  Yanks out!

I have some sympathy with your drift away from Fulham. However I don't share the Yanks out attitude at all. And although I support the ticket price protest I do not agree with any Khans out opinions either.
I just think we need to flag how far our ticket pricing has moved away from family friendly. Hopefully the Khans will listen, I don't think they are uncaring and I certainly don't think they are bad owners. Just a little out of touch sometimes.

[RaySmith]

But remember the Khans' money keeps the club afloat, and in the Prem - if they left, you'd have to get a suitable replacement willing to fund Fulham to the same level.
I don't think it's just 'limbs pursuing, cocaine snorting' young fans, who wouldn't be happy to watch Fulham back in Div 3, but it's probably correct to see this as an alternative to us being a Prem club, with  everything that goes along with it, such as high transfer fees and ridiculous wages.

Society has changed, as well as football and football culture.

Tickets for games have been exorbitantly high for a long time  now, compared to pre-Prem days, and it isn't just at Fulham. Football ceased being a working-class sport years ago.

[General]

It's a great idea in theory.

In reality, however, there are some fairly chunky obstacles.

This extract (from the 2023/24 Season Ticket FAQs) is a prime example:

BEGINS
Can I share my Season Ticket with a friend?
Season Tickets are for the sole use of the named supporter. If you are unable to attend a game and would like a friend to use your ticket, you will need to request this in writing by emailing [email protected] so a match ticket can be issued.

Please note there is a £5 charge for this service. An upgrade price is applicable if a concession season ticket is passed to an adult.

ENDS

Going back a few years I think that there was an explicit right to allow a family member or friend to use your ticket (provided you didn't charge a mark-up on the face value).  But they dropped that a while back.

I suspect that the club would start to withhold consent if they thought there was an organised ticket-sharing scheme being set up by e.g. FST.

It's pretty aggressive policy wise. But there's also the difference between the club having a policy and enforcing it. It'd be extremely passive aggressive asking people who have basic jobs for the sake of money to bring on the aggregation to themselves and the added drama of checking every additional ticket.

[cookieg]

This is all now daylight robbery.

When I lived in USA I could watch every Fulham (premier) game live on my sports channel. They showed every match and all you had to do was click on the one you want. (or record it).  The cost was peanuts.

Now back in the UK, living in Scotland,  I was hoping to come south to the cottage about 5 or 6 times.

Given the ticket prices (I can afford it but principal kicks in) I have lost a bit of desire to watch Fulham, supporter since 1960.  I found myself not even caring (that is a first) when we lost 2-0 to Chelsea. My gut feeling is, oh well, Fulham dont care about supporters. I also feel, perhaps if we get relegated, we will all get our Fulham back.

I think I can speak for many,  WE WANT OUR FULHAM BACK.  Yanks out!

Quite right. Get the Yanks out and sell to the Saudis.

[Sammyffc]

''the FST, elected by 1% of the FFC fanbase. have decided WITHOUT (key point) a vote from paying members!''

Valid point, i don't really have an opinion on the FST however over the years i don't seem to recall them achieving anything at all. I don't know the reasons for it, but they do seem ' from the outside ' a bit of a joke

to be fair this is a valid point.

It's

''the FST, elected by 1% of the FFC fanbase. have decided WITHOUT (key point) a vote from paying members!''

Valid point, i don't really have an opinion on the FST however over the years i don't seem to recall them achieving anything at all. I don't know the reasons for it, but they do seem ' from the outside ' a bit of a joke

It's not about that at all in my opinion, and I think you're missing the point on a number of levels.

Firstly, the FST are the clubs closest outlet to fans with regular meetings with the club. They are representing our interests (which the ticket prices is definitely one), secondly the protest has been agreed by most major fan related organisations, including friends of fulham.

The FST have stated why they think it's relevant to do this now as the club aren't listening to them, despite the FST doing a quite substantial poll about prices with quite clear issues from the fan base.

Exactly, this protest has been supported by several Fulham groups, it's not just a FST initiative.

Frankly some people just like to criticise but make no constructive suggestions and never offer their time or get involved. It's dead easy to lob in criticism but takes a lot more to add something constructive. Exactly the same at my golf club, 10% do most of the volunteering, 80% are the quiet majority and 10% do nothing but moan.

Who exactly are these several Fulham groups and their members? FST yes, some fulhamish podcast hosts yes,who else? Genuine question, because for the life of me i have no seen ANY other groups who have any actual members above a friendship group put themselves out there

[alfie]

''the FST, elected by 1% of the FFC fanbase. have decided WITHOUT (key point) a vote from paying members!''

Valid point, i don't really have an opinion on the FST however over the years i don't seem to recall them achieving anything at all. I don't know the reasons for it, but they do seem ' from the outside ' a bit of a joke

to be fair this is a valid point.

It's

''the FST, elected by 1% of the FFC fanbase. have decided WITHOUT (key point) a vote from paying members!''

Valid point, i don't really have an opinion on the FST however over the years i don't seem to recall them achieving anything at all. I don't know the reasons for it, but they do seem ' from the outside ' a bit of a joke

It's not about that at all in my opinion, and I think you're missing the point on a number of levels.

Firstly, the FST are the clubs closest outlet to fans with regular meetings with the club. They are representing our interests (which the ticket prices is definitely one), secondly the protest has been agreed by most major fan related organisations, including friends of fulham.

The FST have stated why they think it's relevant to do this now as the club aren't listening to them, despite the FST doing a quite substantial poll about prices with quite clear issues from the fan base.

Exactly, this protest has been supported by several Fulham groups, it's not just a FST initiative.

Frankly some people just like to criticise but make no constructive suggestions and never offer their time or get involved. It's dead easy to lob in criticism but takes a lot more to add something constructive. Exactly the same at my golf club, 10% do most of the volunteering, 80% are the quiet majority and 10% do nothing but moan.

Who exactly are these several Fulham groups and their members? FST yes, some fulhamish podcast hosts yes,who else? Genuine question, because for the life of me i have no seen ANY other groups who have any actual members above a friendship group put themselves out there

I have just been looking at another Fulham site and not one post or comment about it.

As has already been said the only real way to make them sit up and take notice is not to go, but as most of the supporters are season ticket holders, it probably would not affect their revenue as they already have the cash.

[Arthur]

Just want to reply to argument that the khans have put in Millions argument.

I general explantion of this business model is you buy a football club for x amount of money.

Invest millions into the club which can be shown as a loss which can be used to reduce your tax liability ( this is very important to understand). 

Convert Debt in shares.

Increase Value of Football team either by player trading or improve football ground/ Comercial revenue(aka ticket prices).

Once club is at maximum value Sell for "more" than invested. This Doesent have to be for "more" as the savings on tax could most likley make the venture worthwhile.

This isnt uncommon with Football teams these days and maybe a fact of life if you want such large invest into the club. I just dont like the angle that they have done us a massive favour as its definitly a two way street for us letting them use our club as a huge tax write off to increase there wealth.

For someone, like me, who has little knowledge financial matters linked to running a business, may I ask how the figures might add up?

If, for example, our owner bought the Club for £150M and goes on to invest, say, £1 billion, what would his approximate tax saving be? £300M?

And were he to sell the Club, would he have to pay Capital Gains Tax? Would this be on anything more than the £150M he parted with in the first place? And what percentage would it be? Roughly 25%?

So, if Shahid sold for the same as his total outlay - £1.15 billion - am I right to think he would be better off to the tune of £50M (i.e. the difference between his tax saving and what he would pay in Capital Gains)?

My figures may be a load of nonsense. I don't know enough to comment with confidence. That's why I wonder whether you can put some 'flesh on the bones' of your earlier post.

Because, looking at it from a position of ignorance, it doesn't quite seem the two-way street you describe. The Club sees a £1 billion investment over a period of more than 10 years. Yet, even if it were to sell for a bit more than this (I confess to having little idea as to its likely valuation), our owner would walk away with what, to a multi-billionaire, amounts to little more than 'pocket money'.

[Mickeyboro]

It's all down to Ali Mac. He has outstayed his welcome and should go!

Why?

He determines and operates the business model. The Khans judge by the bottom line, they don't make the decisions.

His attitude to the fans (eg FST) is clear, he doesn't even turn up to half the meetings.

[Sammyffc]

It's all down to Ali Mac. He has outstayed his welcome and should go!

Why?

He determines and operates the business model. The Khans judge by the bottom line, they don't make the decisions.

His attitude to the fans (eg FST) is clear, he doesn't even turn up to half the meetings.

the FST don't even consult their own paying members on their decisions so they are the same as Ali

[Cumbrian White]

This is all now daylight robbery.

When I lived in USA I could watch every Fulham (premier) game live on my sports channel. They showed every match and all you had to do was click on the one you want. (or record it).  The cost was peanuts.

Now back in the UK, living in Scotland,  I was hoping to come south to the cottage about 5 or 6 times.

Given the ticket prices (I can afford it but principal kicks in) I have lost a bit of desire to watch Fulham, supporter since 1960.  I found myself not even caring (that is a first) when we lost 2-0 to Chelsea. My gut feeling is, oh well, Fulham dont care about supporters. I also feel, perhaps if we get relegated, we will all get our Fulham back.

I think I can speak for many,  WE WANT OUR FULHAM BACK.  Yanks out!

Quite right. Get the Yanks out and sell to the Saudis.

I'd be happy with the Saudi's taking over, in fact sooner the better, the way they're distorting the market in order to be competitive you'll need to be state owned.

Or drop FFP and let all owners money launder, sorry, spend their own cash to the extent they want.

[Mickeyboro]

It's all down to Ali Mac. He has outstayed his welcome and should go!

Why?

He determines and operates the business model. The Khans judge by the bottom line, they don't make the decisions.

His attitude to the fans (eg FST) is clear, he doesn't even turn up to half the meetings.

the FST don't even consult their own paying members on their decisions so they are the same as Ali

Well if you don't want to protest, no-one's forcing you! I am a member of FST - and if it weren't for them we might never have returned to the Cottage. So I will put my money where my mouth is...