Ivan Toney, a media darling and a cheat?

[Cambridge Away]

Easy solution to this, when the referee marks a free kick spot, it has to be circular and the ball has to be inside it.

I suspect that's what'll happen, a low key response as they don't want to give Forest any fuel.

TBF, Forest are the last people who can complain about VAR after their Wembley win against Huddersfield! ... They shouldn't even be in the premier league! 
But they are still 

[Woolly Mammoth]

He moved it because the ball was upside down.

[Angus Telford]

If the officials didn't see him do it there is no law broken and the goal cannot be disallowed.
Only if they saw him do it could they make him take it again from the original spot and in my opinion he could have been booked for ungentlemanly conduct but I've no idea if that law still exists?

One assumes this is why Forest have written to the refs asking if the rules were broken or not. Now they have to come out and say yes you can move the ball a yard after the ref has drawn his line and the wall is set... which seems absurd and will start everyone doing it... or alternatively they can say no Toney cheated, which then begs the question why was it not picked up by VAR and can he be retrospectively punished?

Or they simply say that yes he cheated, but that it was not within the scope of VAR to review.

What would it have rendered if caught by the ref? Likely a yellow. Not for VAR, and likewise not something they give retroactively.

Given it led to a goal it would be reasonable to expect a public apology (like Wolves and Arsenal got) which would at least give the rest of us the satisfaction of seeing Toney publicly recognised as a cheat (arguably just as impactful as any punishment the FA might mete out anyway) and the officials given a kick up the ar&e. And from Forest's perspective they will probably then have refs erring in their favour for the rest of the season

[Free Elvis Hammond]

I thought it was fantastic. Sneaky and creative, love that sort of thing. Will be a long time before anyone gets away with that trick again

I hate watching it but Brentford's co-ordinated ref bothering and set piece dark arts, you've got to admit it's effective

You have to blame the wall too though, they're looking right at him, why don't they adjust? And it doesn't help that the man on that side actually jumps out the way of the ball

[RaySmith]

I thought it was fantastic. Sneaky and creative, love that sort of thing. Will be a long time before anyone gets away with that trick again

I hate watching it but Brentford's co-ordinated ref bothering and set piece dark arts, you've got to admit it's effective

You have to blame the wall too though, they're looking right at him, why don't they adjust? And it doesn't help that the man on that side actually jumps out the way of the ball

WE'd likely be admiring it if a Fulham player did it.

Amazed that the opposition a/ didn't complain to officials before kick was taken, b/ didn't close the gap in the wall even when Toney was lined up right in front of it.

Didn't anyone complain after it was scored? and if so, why no VAR look at it?

[H4usuallysitting]

Ok, the ref didn't see it - but VAR saw it....if the goal stands, what's the point of the white foam stuff..... again VAR let's football down

[Stevieboy]

Nottingham Forest have launched an appeal to the PGMOL complaining that Toney's goal should have been disallowed by VAR. In Toney's first game back since an 8-month betting offence (over 300 illegal bets made by him) he deliberately moves the ball while the referee's back is turned.

But the media, in this instance Dermot Gallagher finds any excuse to not condemn his actions. Had a Fulham player done the same he would be looking at retrospective action and a lenghty ban, and rightly so.

But unlike Brentford, Fulham do not have players as dishonest as Ivan Toney! See for yourself.

I remember the exact same thing happening to us awhile back, I think it was a Europa game. Player moved ball a foot to the right after the wall had been positioned and squeezed the ball inside the post!!

[Free Elvis Hammond]

The Athletic have just published an analysis of teams moving the ball before shooting from a free kick (this season only)

[bobbo]

If they can review parts of matches after the event and subsequently rescind red cards ie Callum Wilson cheating on Joachim in our game few seasons back , then why can't they punish the likes of toney after the event .
He can't help himself he has cheating in his nature already been proved with gambling .
A clear case to have penalised him being ignored .

[Somerset Fulham]

Haha! We're worse for it than they are.   

[Andy S]

Players are always trying to con the referee as well as the players in the opposing team. So let's just grow up and say it happens!

[Sting of the North]

If they can review parts of matches after the event and subsequently rescind red cards ie Callum Wilson cheating on Joachim in our game few seasons back , then why can't they punish the likes of toney after the event .
He can't help himself he has cheating in his nature already been proved with gambling .
A clear case to have penalised him being ignored .

They never review yellow card, or potential yellow card incidents though, which would be the case here. The retroactive actions available are very limited, for good reason. Red cards may be given retroactively (I think only in cases where the referee has not assessed the situation, or something like that) and suspensions for straight red cards may be rescinded. Then of course as we now, additional games can be added to a suspension if deemed appropriate. 

So unless there is room in the interpretation of the applicable rules for straight red cards if someone moves the ball/tampers with the foam, there is nothing that can be done retroactively.

[Stevieboy]

I've never seen the foam being moved as well. It is there because players would move the ball when the ref wasn't looking, so it's a new low created by Toney and he should be condemned IMO. Ban him for another 8 months part of which is in the summer like last time.

Tripper did it against us last season.

[StuinSalop]

Sky studios in Brentford. Nuff said.

[deadcowboys]

The Athletic have just published an analysis of teams moving the ball before shooting from a free kick (this season only)

The problem with a chart like this is you don't know what constitutes a shot or how much the ball is moved by, so all rather pointless. Toney's "crime" if you like was redrawing the foam line as a means of deceiving the officials rather than just moving the ball. I would like to know however, what the Asst Ref was doing at the time.

[Whitestone]

Players routinely try to gain an advantage with throw ins and free kicks. Moving the foam is cheating and Toney should be called out for it. This guy hasn't learnt anything after 8 months out and is quite happy to act this way in the full glare of the cameras. He even tried to suggest the laws of the game allow players to move the ball a yard.  I don't believe he doesn't know the rules.

[Sgt Fulham]

Haha! We're worse for it than they are.   

From what I can see this thread is about Ivan Toney, not Brentford, so you can hold your celebrations. The amount of people excusing his cheating because others do it too is disappointing.

[Super Mick]

I thought it was fantastic. Sneaky and creative, love that sort of thing. Will be a long time before anyone gets away with that trick again

I hate watching it but Brentford's co-ordinated ref bothering and set piece dark arts, you've got to admit it's effective

You have to blame the wall too though, they're looking right at him, why don't they adjust? And it doesn't help that the man on that side actually jumps out the way of the ball

WE'd likely be admiring it if a Fulham player did it.

Amazed that the opposition a/ didn't complain to officials before kick was taken, b/ didn't close the gap in the wall even when Toney was lined up right in front of it.

Didn't anyone complain after it was scored? and if so, why no VAR look at it?

They did but its Brentford and VAR are very generous to them for some reason!

[Sting of the North]

Haha! We're worse for it than they are.   

From what I can see this thread is about Ivan Toney, not Brentford, so you can hold your celebrations. The amount of people excusing his cheating because others do it too is disappointing.

I don't think it is that people are excusing his cheating as such, but rather that some feel that this is a classic mountain out of a mole hill situation. The counter maybe should be, why is this such a big issue? Is it maybe just because it is Toney? Because to me this looks like people just wanting to find an excuse to complain about Toney for some reason, but maybe there's another reason for this being such a huge issue for many whereas most such cheating goes largely unnoticed.

[Somerset Fulham]

Haha! We're worse for it than they are.   

From what I can see this thread is about Ivan Toney, not Brentford, so you can hold your celebrations. The amount of people excusing his cheating because others do it too is disappointing.

Not celebrating, just highlighting (as I have done previously) the madness that does overtake this forum whenever this guy is mentioned.