Thursday Fulham Stuff - 11/09/25...

[WhiteJC]

Internationals: Raúl & Bassey among the goals
Raúl Jiménez was on the scoresheet last night as Mexico played out a 2-2 draw with South Korea in an international friendly.

Our number seven produced a superb finish to open the scoring, directing a stooping header over the goalkeeper to give Mexico a deserved lead at half-time.

After Raúl was substituted in the 61st minute, South Korea turned the game around in the second-half, but Santiago Giménez struck a dramatic late equaliser to salvage a result.

Calvin Bassey also found the net, scoring his first international goal in Nigeria's 1-1 draw with South Africa, with Alex Iwobi and Samuel Chukwueze also featuring.

With the Super Eagles trailing in their World Cup qualifier, our centre-back rose highest to power home a header just before the break.

Nigeria now face a tense final two qualifiers in October, with crucial matches against Lesotho and Benin set to determine their World Cup fate.

Sander Berge starred in Norway's emphatic 11-1 victory over Moldova, as Ståle Solbakken's side moved closer to their first World Cup qualification in 27 years.

The midfielder played the full 90 minutes in a record-equalling performance, with Norway matching the biggest winning margin in a European World Cup qualifying match.

Elsewhere, Fulham teammates Luc de Fougerolles and Harry Wilson faced off in friendly action between Canada and Wales.

De Fougerolles, currently on loan at Belgian Pro League side F.C.V. Dender, nearly opened the scoring with a clever backheeled flick that struck the crossbar.

Derek Cornelius' free-kick eventually secured a 1-0 win for Canada, with De Fougerolles helping his side keep a clean sheet against Wilson's Wales.

Saša Lukić featured for the full match in Serbia's World Cup qualifier against England, but the Three Lions proved too strong, cruising to a 5-0 victory in Belgrade.

Jonah Kusi-Asare was handed a start in Sweden Under-21s' latest Euro qualifier, but his side were beaten 2-0 by Montenegro. Meanwhile, Seth Ridgeon played the second-half of England Under-18s' 3-2 win over Canada.

On Monday, Joachim Andersen helped Denmark to a 3-0 win over Greece with a solid defensive performance, while Timothy Castagne was part of Belgium's 6-0 thrashing of Kazakhstan a day earlier.



https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2025/september/10/internationals-raul-and-bassey-among-the-goals/

[WhiteJC]

Will there ever be a solution to the jumbled mess of VAR?
Josh King's cruelly disallowed goal shows how one person's wrong conclusion can still cause havoc



It feels like a lot has happened since last Saturday's VAR farce at Stamford Bridge, as Josh King's perfectly good goal was chalked off for the simple crime of Rodrigo Muniz being unable to avoid the force of gravity.

Of course, there was a lot of press about the incident. Danny Murphy said "he couldn't remember a worse VAR decision", which even with my massively biased Fulham hat on, I don't know how you can say it's the worst after 2023's Luis Diaz disallowed goal against Spurs.

While all Chelsea fans I've spoken to since the game acknowledge that they got away with one, there are always of course some idiots online who are so blinded by their allegiances they can't see what's in front of them.



Some of the debate was about the incident getting much more traction because it was an 18 year old who scored the goal and that nobody would care if another player had scored. Some even suggested that Fulham fans thought it should stand just because it was Josh who scored.

Quite obviously, that is nonsense. The fact it was Josh's goal that was cruelly snatched away is a catastrophic symptom of VAR. A sign that when mistakes are made, great moments that everyone loves to see are taken away.

If Fulham had gone on to win the game (big if I know) Josh's goal would have gone down in Premier League folklore alongside Wayne Rooney, Danny Rose and Federico Macheda. VAR's flaws are damaging the product that the PL has cultivated so carefully.

Then there was the now customary apology from PGMOL and the release of the VAR tapes, which if you haven't seen, are watchable below.

The recording, for me, is absolutely damning. The slow motion crash is painful to watch as Michael Salisbury (Sal) managed to convince everyone else of his flawed opinion. The way he completely dismissed the assistant's correct take is astounding.

After the game, as I walked down the Fulham Road with Elizabeth Barnard, we had a long and existential chat about VAR. I said that, despite the decision, I ultimately still think some sort of technology is a good thing. Elizabeth shared a point of view that I'd not fully considered before and that's the fact that humans can't ever be trusted to use the technology correctly and that's why she believes it should be scrapped.

My first instinct, probably quite a stereotypical male one, is to think 'but there must be a fix' - however after a few days of reflection and upon watching those tapes, I did actually wonder whether it's completely true. Maybe it's just human nature that we'll never get it right.

I think most football fans agree that 'clear and obvious errors' are what we're attempting to eradicate. It sounds so simple in practice doesn't it? The reality however, is so much more opaque.

Take Leny Yoro's goal against Fulham for Manchester United. Two hands in the back of Calvin Bassey, allowing for a fairly simple header into the goal.



I mean, I can clearly and obviously see that Yoro pushed Bassey, but then does it meet the 'high bar'? Is it a horrendous mistake? Well, no, pushing happens in the box all the time and maybe Calvin Bassey should be a bit stronger. Suddenly, a simple decision is tangled up in a jumbled mess.

Currently, the PGMOL is far too reactive when fixing a previous crisis - and it's part of the reason that I'm not sure the apologies and public scolding of officials is a great thing.

I am willing to wager decent money that in the next two-to-three game weeks there's a goal that is allowed even though there's a really obvious foul in the build-up. To make things worse, it'll be probably be in heartbreaking circumstances such as a top fourteam equalising against a newly-promoted side. The VAR will have the Josh King incident in the front of their minds and they'll be desperate to avoid a similar mistake.

After watching the King tapes with the referee mic recording, it's clear to me that the process is deeply, deeply flawed. Why are the referees talking so much to the VAR? Why are they still calling each other nicknames? It was so evident how easy it was for one flawed opinion to over-power all the other opinions in a matter of seconds.

Of course, lots of solutions are out there for how to fix VAR. Gary Lineker always talks about having an appeal/challenge system, time limits are a regular suggestion and scrapping it altogether is one, increasingly popular, opinion.

If VAR has to stay, then you have to remove ways for one wrong opinion to influence the panel. It's clear that Michael Salisbury interpreted that situation wrong, and look, that's understandable. We all are guilty, dozens of times per season, of jumping to a wrong conclusion. That's life - it happens.

If Michael Salisbury and the assistant VAR were working independently and they had to each give a green light to whether that was a mistake, it's clear that there would have been a 50/50 split. The chances of one referee seeing something wrong are fairly high, but the chances of two or three referees making the exact same mistake are incredibly slim.

Separating out the video assistants and creating some sort of adjudication system surely will help eradicate errors and ensure that only 'clear and obvious' mistakes are examined. They need to make the VAR process much more clinical, stop yapping so much and just be there to stop the on-pitch referee from dropping a howler.

I like Howard Webb and the way he fronts up to the challenges of VAR. The honesty and openness has been a refreshing change from the past. What I do wonder though is whether, as a former referee, he has all the qualities necessary to really implement VAR properly. When you see VAR's flaws, it's not necessarily a refereeing problem, but a problem with the system.

Now of course, it may just be the Howard is the face and there are systems analysts working on the process in the background, but what's alarming is that nearly two years after the infamous Luis Diaz incident, where miscommunication led to PGMOL's biggest crisis to date, it feels like the same mistakes are happening and the process doesn't seem to have evolved that much.

Maybe, as Elizabeth said, we should just scrap the whole thing and just admit that the utopia will never be achieved.



https://www.fulhamish.co.uk/p/will-there-ever-be-a-solution-to

[WhiteJC]

Fulham and Wolves wronged by VAR - panel
The video assistant referee made two mistakes in the most recent round of Premier League fixtures, says the Key Match Incidents panel.

Josh King's goal for Fulham in the loss at Chelsea was ruled out and Wolves were not awarded a penalty in their defeat by Everton, both on 30 August.

Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) chief refereeing officer Howard Webb said last week that the decision to disallow King's goal was a "misjudgement".

King scored after 22 minutes, only for it to be chalked off following a lengthy VAR review for a foul by Rodrigo Muniz in the build-up.

Muniz was deemed to have fouled Chelsea defender Trevoh Chalobah when he trod on his foot as he turned near the halfway line.

The panel, which reviews the big refereeing decisions in the Premier League each week, agreed that VAR Michael Salisbury was wrong to intervene and referee Rob Jones was wrong to subsequently disallow the goal.

The panel wrote: "The panel unanimously supported the original on-field call to allow play to continue and award the goal."

It also said Wolves should have been awarded a penalty for Iliman Ndiaye's foul on Hugo Bueno in the 3-2 loss to Everton.

Three of the five members of the panel said VAR Craig Pawson's decision not to intervene was a mistake.

"The contact made is careless and the panel felt a penalty should have been awarded and that VAR should have intervened on the basis it was a clear and obvious error in not penalising the foul," the panel wrote.

Wolves are without a point at the bottom of the table.

Chelsea beat Fulham 2-0 thanks to Joao Pedro's header and Enzo Fernandez's penalty, both of which came after King's goal was ruled out.

Fulham are without a win after three league games, and manager Marco Silva said after the game: "How you disallow a goal like that is unbelievable.

"VAR is not here to re-referee the game."

Salisbury was stood down as VAR for Liverpool's win over Arsenal the following day.

The panel ruled that there were 18 VAR errors last season, with the majority coming from missed interventions. Only two resulted in disallowed goals.

The independent panel is made up of three former players or coaches, one Premier League representative and one from the PGMOL board.

It looked at 35 incidents in game week three and said the correct outcome was reached in 33, including when VAR intervened.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8jm8y38delo

[WhiteJC]

Jamie Carragher 'never felt convinced' by Leeds United player who might return to the XI vs Fulham
The last two weeks haven't been all that good for Leeds United, whose steady start to the new season could quickly take a downturn.

Although Leeds United find themselves in 12th place of the Premier League table for this September international break, there are a lot of supporters worried about how the season will eventually pan out.

And it comes after Leeds United failed to sign any new players on deadline day despite Daniel Farke admitting that the club needed to sign some more firepower.

Up next is a trip to Fulham, and an already difficult game has been made more so after it was revealed that Leeds United goalkeeper Lucas Perri has picked up an injury, meaning Karl Darlow will have to start against Fulham.

It also means Illan Meslier returns to the bench after his proposed move away from Elland Road didn't materialise in time.

Illan Meslier set for unexpected return to Leeds United squad
Meslier had a nightmare 2024/25 season. Despite keeping 21 clean sheets in the end, he made too many individual errors which could've cost Leeds United promotion. Eventually, Darlow replaced Meslier and Leeds United looked a whole lot better for it.

But whilst Darlow is a steady pair of hands, he's not exactly a world-beater, and Darlow's poor Premier League record proves that.

On top of that, Darlow had a stinker against Sheffield Wednesday last month in what was his first competitive appearance for Leeds United this season.

For Farke, if Perri is out for a while and Darlow doesn't hold up, it might mean an unlikely return to the Leeds United XI for Meslier after last season's antics.

Jamie Carragher was never impressed by Illan Meslier at Leeds United
Back in 2023, Leeds were thumped 6-1 by Liverpool. Meslier was in goal that game, and afterwards, Carragher gave a pretty brutal review of the Frenchman.

Carragher said post-match: "I've never been convinced with the goalkeeper – I know he's a young player, Bielsa brought him up from the Championship and he was young then, maybe 20. He was good on the ball using his feet but he's got no presence. It looks like you've got a kid in goal.

"I've always felt that. Okay, he's a young goalkeeper making his way, but I've never felt convinced with him at all, and the defenders that they've got individually are really poor. Really poor, they make big mistakes every time they play."

Now 25, Meslier would return to Premier League action as a much more experienced, and wise goalkeeper. But his performances last season weren't even up to Championship level, so fans would have very little hope that Meslier would do well in the top flight.

For now though it's Darlow who looks set to start in goal, and if he can refrain from any more mistakes then he'll prove a decent stand-in for Perri until he returns to action.



https://www.leedsunited.news/opinion/jamie-carragher-never-felt-convinced-by-leeds-united-player-who-might-return-to-the-xi-vs-fulham/

[WhiteJC]

Dominic Calvert-Lewin can break 12-month duck for Leeds United vs Fulham
The summer signing will be Leeds United's main focal point of attack this season

Dominic Calvert-Lewin put in an encouraging performance for Leeds United when coming off the bench on his Premier League debut for the Whites against Newcastle United.

A lot of questions surround the free agent signing, not least his ability to stay on the pitch, but there were glimpses of what kind of striker the club have acquired in his 20-minute stint. In that time on the field, the England international produced Leeds' most potent effort.

His low drive late on forced Nick Pope to save with his boot in an otherwise light afternoon for the goalkeeper. The game ended with an xG score 1.01 - the lowest of the season so far up to that point.

Leeds walked away from Elland Road having secured a very good result, and four points from a tricky opening three games is a great return, especially given only one goal has been scored and that being from the penalty spot.

Next up are Fulham, Wolves and Bournemouth and one of the aims has to be to score from a live ball. To be frank, Calvert-Lewin's effort against Newcastle was the closest Leeds have looked to doing that in the last 180 minutes of Premier League play.

During his maiden outing at Elland Road, Calvert-Lewin showed his aerial strength and also his ability to run to find space, in the right areas. The next step is for him to be clinical - something that all United attackers will need to be this season.

Calvert-Lewin will be the team's first-choice striker when he is fully fit, something he has been able to work towards during these two weeks of training this international break. He might start for the first time against Fulham.

His task for every game this season is simple. What makes his mission to find the net more difficult is the limited number of chances Leeds will get, highlighting said need to be lethal.

Home will be where more chances lie with away games set to be more restricted for scoring opportunities. Calvert-Lewin scored just three goals last season, but one of them did come on the road.

In fact, when Leeds take to the pitch on Saturday, it will have been almost exactly a year since he last scored away from home, with the date just a day out. His conversion at Aston Villa in a 3-2 defeat on September 14 last year marked his last away strike.

It would be timely, then, if he could replicate the feat on the banks of the Thames at Craven Cottage. Leeds will get most of their points in Yorkshire this season but anything that can be earned on the road will be a major boost.

In order to secure wins, they will need to score. The jury is still out of the striker options, including Calvert-Lewin, but these next few games will give fans an early insight towards their final verdict.



https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/dominic-calvert-lewin-can-break-32448346

[WhiteJC]

Digital Tickets: Leeds United
ENSURE YOUR PASS IS READY

Prior to our second home league match of the season, we encourage Season Ticket Holders to check their season pass remains in their active wallet.

Some supporters may have inadvertently deleted or 'expired' their pass after the Manchester United fixture: your Season Pass is your ticket to all 19 Premier League home matches at Craven Cottage.

We also appreciate there will be some Season Ticket Holders who may have been away for the first match of the 2025/26 season – please ensure you have downloaded your ticket to your device ahead of matchday.

Prior to Saturday's game, please also check your Season Pass has the next home fixture listed: Fulham v Leeds United.

Note: if you have forwarded your ticket for the Leeds fixture and it has been accepted by a friend or family member in your network, your ticket should now show the following match, Brentford.

If your Season Pass is missing or deleted, or not showing the next match, please view the steps on the link below for support:

View Troubleshooting Steps

Any supporters with a single match ticket should also ensure they have downloaded their ticket prior to Saturday.

A reminder that all Digital Ticketing support and user guides can be found here, and if you are experiencing any issues contact the Ticket Office as soon as possible.

SEASON PASS ISSUES
The Club is aware that a small number of supporters have been experiencing issues with their digital passes, receiving an 'error' message on their device.

We have been working with our ticketing provider, Ticketmaster, to address these issues, however, affected fans will once again be issued with a single digital match pass for Leeds this weekend.

Any supporters experiencing issues downloading their season pass we encourage you to contact the Fulham FC Ticket Office at [email protected] as soon as possible and in advance of matchday.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your cooperation.

TICKET OFFICE OPENING HOURS
The Fulham FC Ticket Office on Stevenage Road is open to personal callers and phone calls between 9:30am and 5pm until Friday, and from 9:30am on Saturday.

For supporters seeking support on matchday, we urge you to arrive early to avoid queues.

Thank you for your continued support.



https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2025/september/10/digital-tickets-leeds-united/

[WhiteJC]

Daniel Farke has a hidden weapon for Leeds United's clash with Fulham, his record is sensational
The words, Leeds United are playing in London this weekend, send shivers down the spines of those who support Daniel Farke's side. Leeds are poor in the capital, and this weekend, Leeds go to Fulham.

Already this season, Leeds were hammered 5-0 by Arsenal. Another example of Leeds struggling down south in the capital. The Whites are in action against Marco Silva's Fulham, a side boasting Harry Wilson.

Leeds will need to be defensively solid, as they must be in every Premier League game, and produce a much better showing than they did in their first away game in England's top flight, over at The Emirates.

Lucas Perri is injured and it is yet to be confirmed if Ethan Ampadu will return in time. But, one player that is sure to start is Sean Longstaff and below is why the £15m signing can be Leeds' secret weapon.

Sean Longstaff's record against Fulham is absolutely sensational
Longstaff won his first Premier League start against former side Newcastle and he was absolutely phenomenal. Man of the match, Longstaff impressed Jamie Carragher and Harry Kewell in their analysis.

Longstaff will start for Leeds on Saturday, with Ao Tanaka still sidelined. Even if Ampadu and Ilia Gruev are fit, Longstaff is still sure to start. But it his record against Fulham that should give Leeds fans some hope.

The Newcastle academy graduate has faced Fulham seven times throughout his career. On six occasions, he has been victorious and remains unbeaten while Longstaff has also scored twice against Fulham.

Which changes will Daniel Farke have to make against Fulham?
The obvious one is Perri. Karl Darlow is set to come in, having starred for Wales in their 1-0 win over Kazakhstan last week. The defence could remain the same, with Jaka Bijol's Slovenia conceding five.

If Ampadu is fit, he will be a direct replacement for Ilia Gruev and that means Longstaff and Anton Stach will stay in midfield, as Ao Tanaka remains sidelined. Dan James' form could see the Welshman axed.

Willy Gnonto will surely start, while Farke has a decision to make up top. Joel Piroe is unlikely to start, Lukas Nmecha did well against Newcastle but Dominic Calvert-Lewin is getting better and better.



https://www.leedsunited.news/opinion/daniel-farke-has-a-hidden-weapon-for-leeds-uniteds-clash-with-fulham-his-record-is-sensational/

[WhiteJC]

Fulham referee error confirmed ahead of Leeds United clash
Leeds United will be back in Premier League when they face Fulham at Craven Cottage on Saturday afternoon.

Leeds United return to Premier League action when they visit Fulham this weekend - and you could forgive the hosts for still feeling a sense of injustice after coming out on the wrong side of a poor VAR decision in their last game.

The Cottagers made the short trip to Chelsea and appeared to have taken the lead midway through the first half when youngster Josh King fired home his first league goal - but the effort was ruled out after a VAR review controversially ruled Rodrigo Muniz had fouled home defender Trevoh Chalobah by stepping on his foot as he turned in the middle of the pitch.

The goal was initially given by on-field official Rob Jones - but he was advised to review the incident by VAR official Michael Salisbury and opted to overturn the call and disallow King's effort. Understandably, the decision provoked anger from Cottagers boss Marco Silva, who insisted VAR was not introduced to 're-referee the game'.

"How you disallow a goal like that is unbelievable," Silva told TNT Sports after the game. "We have meetings with referee and people in charge, we all want to win. VAR is not here to re-referee the game. I would prefer not to say something more because I would be punished. I want to be on the touchline next week to help my team, I don't want to be fined. But it has been a difficult start to the season with some decisions."

Silva's mood would hardly have been helped by the fact Professional Game Match Officials Limited chief Howard Webb has since admitted that 'guidance wasn't followed properly' in the aftermath of the 'goal' and stressed that the match officials had made 'a misjudgement'.

Speaking on the Premier League's 'Match Officials Mic'd Up' show, the former FIFA official said: "It wasn't controversial, it was wrong. We've established some principles in terms of how we officiate in the Premier League and how we use VAR. They sit around a high threshold for penalising contact, aiding the flow, rhythm and tempo of the game. We've also established a high bar for intervention with VAR.

"In this situation, that guidance wasn't followed properly. There was a misjudgement by the officials involved in this situation about how that contact happened between Muniz and Chalobah. The officials got super focused on that contact, without looking at the full context of how it happened."

Webb's view has now been backed up by the PGMOL's Key Match Incidents panel. They said: "The panel unanimously supported the original on-field call to allow play to continue and award the goal."

Who will be the match officials for Fulham v Leeds United?
The Premier League have announced confirmed their officials appointments for this weekend fixtures and that means Craig Pawson will take charge of Fulham vs Leeds United. He will be assisted by Lee Betts and Mark Scholes at Craven Cottage and Josh Smith is on fourth official duties. Paul Tierney will be in charge of VAR at Stockley Park, with Blake Antrobus his assistant on the day.



https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/fulham-referee-error-leeds-united-5311886

[WhiteJC]

Daniel Farke will have to re-write Leeds United history against Fulham
Every Leeds United fan knows it, every Leeds fan is concerned about it before a trip to London and mostly, every Leeds fan is reminded of it when the full-time whistle goes in the capital.

It has become a widely-known issue at Leeds that The Whites struggle when they go to London. Even this season, that has been proved in the first three Premier League games – a 5-0 hammering by Arsenal.

Leeds simply do not have a winning formula when it comes to facing sides like Arsenal, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, West Ham or Tottenham. On Saturday afternoon, Leeds are back in London, to take on Fulham.

They must do so without goalkeeper Lucas Perri, coming up against a side that boasts a certain Harry Wilson. Perform anything like they have done in recent years in London, and it is likely to end in defeat.

Leeds United's form in London since promotion in 2020
It's not good reading. Over the last five seasons and including this one, Leeds have won just four times out of a possible 29 times. In 22 of those matches, Leeds have been beaten, even in the Championship.

Last season, Leeds lost to Millwall with new Sheffield United star Japhet Tanganga scoring. The season before that, Leeds went to QPR and lost. Daniel Farke's side were obliterated 4-0 at Loftus Road in 2024.

The only win since the 2021-22 season, when Marcelo Bielsa was in charge, was a 3-0 win at Millwall. If Leeds are to beat Fulham, Farke is going to have to re-write Leeds history and end a London hoodoo.

Leeds United's record against Fulham in last 10 meetings
When it comes to just Marco Silva's side, Leeds have faced Fulham in four competitions during their last 10 meetings. In the Championship, the Carabao Cup, the FA Cup and most recently, the Premier League.

The last Premier League win against Fulham came at Craven Cottage surprisingly, under Bielsa. A 2-1 win in West London thanks to goals from Patrick Bamford and Raphinha, who have now both left the club.

But eye-catchingly, Leeds have won only three of their last 10 against Fulham – albeit, in normal time. A penalty-shootout win came in the Carabao Cup, too. Fulham are favourites and avoiding defeat is solid.



https://www.leedsunited.news/analysis/daniel-farke-will-have-to-re-write-leeds-united-history-against-fulham/

[Woolly Mammoth]

It will be an interesting clash between two very astute managers who know their football.

[bencher]

Fulham and Wolves wronged by VAR - panel
The video assistant referee made two mistakes in the most recent round of Premier League fixtures, says the Key Match Incidents panel.

Josh King's goal for Fulham in the loss at Chelsea was ruled out and Wolves were not awarded a penalty in their defeat by Everton, both on 30 August.

Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) chief refereeing officer Howard Webb said last week that the decision to disallow King's goal was a "misjudgement".

King scored after 22 minutes, only for it to be chalked off following a lengthy VAR review for a foul by Rodrigo Muniz in the build-up.

Muniz was deemed to have fouled Chelsea defender Trevoh Chalobah when he trod on his foot as he turned near the halfway line.

The panel, which reviews the big refereeing decisions in the Premier League each week, agreed that VAR Michael Salisbury was wrong to intervene and referee Rob Jones was wrong to subsequently disallow the goal.

The panel wrote: "The panel unanimously supported the original on-field call to allow play to continue and award the goal."

It also said Wolves should have been awarded a penalty for Iliman Ndiaye's foul on Hugo Bueno in the 3-2 loss to Everton.

Three of the five members of the panel said VAR Craig Pawson's decision not to intervene was a mistake.

"The contact made is careless and the panel felt a penalty should have been awarded and that VAR should have intervened on the basis it was a clear and obvious error in not penalising the foul," the panel wrote.

Wolves are without a point at the bottom of the table.

Chelsea beat Fulham 2-0 thanks to Joao Pedro's header and Enzo Fernandez's penalty, both of which came after King's goal was ruled out.

Fulham are without a win after three league games, and manager Marco Silva said after the game: "How you disallow a goal like that is unbelievable.

"VAR is not here to re-referee the game."

Salisbury was stood down as VAR for Liverpool's win over Arsenal the following day.

The panel ruled that there were 18 VAR errors last season, with the majority coming from missed interventions. Only two resulted in disallowed goals.

The independent panel is made up of three former players or coaches, one Premier League representative and one from the PGMOL board.

It looked at 35 incidents in game week three and said the correct outcome was reached in 33, including when VAR intervened.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8jm8y38delo

About the Wolves penalty not given - 3 out of 5 members of the panel voted there should have been a VAR intervention for a clear and obvious error. If 2 out of 5 didn't regard it as clear and obvious, then surely it wasn't clear and obvious? That type of issue should be unanimous by definition. Not that matters at this point.

[bobbo]

Will there ever be a solution to the jumbled mess of VAR?
Josh King's cruelly disallowed goal shows how one person's wrong conclusion can still cause havoc



It feels like a lot has happened since last Saturday's VAR farce at Stamford Bridge, as Josh King's perfectly good goal was chalked off for the simple crime of Rodrigo Muniz being unable to avoid the force of gravity.

Of course, there was a lot of press about the incident. Danny Murphy said "he couldn't remember a worse VAR decision", which even with my massively biased Fulham hat on, I don't know how you can say it's the worst after 2023's Luis Diaz disallowed goal against Spurs.

While all Chelsea fans I've spoken to since the game acknowledge that they got away with one, there are always of course some idiots online who are so blinded by their allegiances they can't see what's in front of them.



Some of the debate was about the incident getting much more traction because it was an 18 year old who scored the goal and that nobody would care if another player had scored. Some even suggested that Fulham fans thought it should stand just because it was Josh who scored.

Quite obviously, that is nonsense. The fact it was Josh's goal that was cruelly snatched away is a catastrophic symptom of VAR. A sign that when mistakes are made, great moments that everyone loves to see are taken away.

If Fulham had gone on to win the game (big if I know) Josh's goal would have gone down in Premier League folklore alongside Wayne Rooney, Danny Rose and Federico Macheda. VAR's flaws are damaging the product that the PL has cultivated so carefully.

Then there was the now customary apology from PGMOL and the release of the VAR tapes, which if you haven't seen, are watchable below.

The recording, for me, is absolutely damning. The slow motion crash is painful to watch as Michael Salisbury (Sal) managed to convince everyone else of his flawed opinion. The way he completely dismissed the assistant's correct take is astounding.

After the game, as I walked down the Fulham Road with Elizabeth Barnard, we had a long and existential chat about VAR. I said that, despite the decision, I ultimately still think some sort of technology is a good thing. Elizabeth shared a point of view that I'd not fully considered before and that's the fact that humans can't ever be trusted to use the technology correctly and that's why she believes it should be scrapped.

My first instinct, probably quite a stereotypical male one, is to think 'but there must be a fix' - however after a few days of reflection and upon watching those tapes, I did actually wonder whether it's completely true. Maybe it's just human nature that we'll never get it right.

I think most football fans agree that 'clear and obvious errors' are what we're attempting to eradicate. It sounds so simple in practice doesn't it? The reality however, is so much more opaque.

Take Leny Yoro's goal against Fulham for Manchester United. Two hands in the back of Calvin Bassey, allowing for a fairly simple header into the goal.



I mean, I can clearly and obviously see that Yoro pushed Bassey, but then does it meet the 'high bar'? Is it a horrendous mistake? Well, no, pushing happens in the box all the time and maybe Calvin Bassey should be a bit stronger. Suddenly, a simple decision is tangled up in a jumbled mess.

Currently, the PGMOL is far too reactive when fixing a previous crisis - and it's part of the reason that I'm not sure the apologies and public scolding of officials is a great thing.

I am willing to wager decent money that in the next two-to-three game weeks there's a goal that is allowed even though there's a really obvious foul in the build-up. To make things worse, it'll be probably be in heartbreaking circumstances such as a top fourteam equalising against a newly-promoted side. The VAR will have the Josh King incident in the front of their minds and they'll be desperate to avoid a similar mistake.

After watching the King tapes with the referee mic recording, it's clear to me that the process is deeply, deeply flawed. Why are the referees talking so much to the VAR? Why are they still calling each other nicknames? It was so evident how easy it was for one flawed opinion to over-power all the other opinions in a matter of seconds.

Of course, lots of solutions are out there for how to fix VAR. Gary Lineker always talks about having an appeal/challenge system, time limits are a regular suggestion and scrapping it altogether is one, increasingly popular, opinion.

If VAR has to stay, then you have to remove ways for one wrong opinion to influence the panel. It's clear that Michael Salisbury interpreted that situation wrong, and look, that's understandable. We all are guilty, dozens of times per season, of jumping to a wrong conclusion. That's life - it happens.

If Michael Salisbury and the assistant VAR were working independently and they had to each give a green light to whether that was a mistake, it's clear that there would have been a 50/50 split. The chances of one referee seeing something wrong are fairly high, but the chances of two or three referees making the exact same mistake are incredibly slim.

Separating out the video assistants and creating some sort of adjudication system surely will help eradicate errors and ensure that only 'clear and obvious' mistakes are examined. They need to make the VAR process much more clinical, stop yapping so much and just be there to stop the on-pitch referee from dropping a howler.

I like Howard Webb and the way he fronts up to the challenges of VAR. The honesty and openness has been a refreshing change from the past. What I do wonder though is whether, as a former referee, he has all the qualities necessary to really implement VAR properly. When you see VAR's flaws, it's not necessarily a refereeing problem, but a problem with the system.

Now of course, it may just be the Howard is the face and there are systems analysts working on the process in the background, but what's alarming is that nearly two years after the infamous Luis Diaz incident, where miscommunication led to PGMOL's biggest crisis to date, it feels like the same mistakes are happening and the process doesn't seem to have evolved that much.

Maybe, as Elizabeth said, we should just scrap the whole thing and just admit that the utopia will never be achieved.



https://www.fulhamish.co.uk/p/will-there-ever-be-a-solution-to

[bobbo]

[quote author=bobbo link=msg=1587698  yeah push and holding happens all the time BUT IT SHOULDNT .its one of the 9 penal offences that shouldn't be allowed refs and those that guide them are 99% responsible for the shambles at every corner taken nowadays .

Will there ever be a solution to the jumbled mess of VAR?
Josh King's cruelly disallowed goal shows how one person's wrong conclusion can still cause havoc



It feels like a lot has happened since last Saturday's VAR farce at Stamford Bridge, as Josh King's perfectly good goal was chalked off for the simple crime of Rodrigo Muniz being unable to avoid the force of gravity.

Of course, there was a lot of press about the incident. Danny Murphy said "he couldn't remember a worse VAR decision", which even with my massively biased Fulham hat on, I don't know how you can say it's the worst after 2023's Luis Diaz disallowed goal against Spurs.

While all Chelsea fans I've spoken to since the game acknowledge that they got away with one, there are always of course some idiots online who are so blinded by their allegiances they can't see what's in front of them.



Some of the debate was about the incident getting much more traction because it was an 18 year old who scored the goal and that nobody would care if another player had scored. Some even suggested that Fulham fans thought it should stand just because it was Josh who scored.

Quite obviously, that is nonsense. The fact it was Josh's goal that was cruelly snatched away is a catastrophic symptom of VAR. A sign that when mistakes are made, great moments that everyone loves to see are taken away.

If Fulham had gone on to win the game (big if I know) Josh's goal would have gone down in Premier League folklore alongside Wayne Rooney, Danny Rose and Federico Macheda. VAR's flaws are damaging the product that the PL has cultivated so carefully.

Then there was the now customary apology from PGMOL and the release of the VAR tapes, which if you haven't seen, are watchable below.

The recording, for me, is absolutely damning. The slow motion crash is painful to watch as Michael Salisbury (Sal) managed to convince everyone else of his flawed opinion. The way he completely dismissed the assistant's correct take is astounding.

After the game, as I walked down the Fulham Road with Elizabeth Barnard, we had a long and existential chat about VAR. I said that, despite the decision, I ultimately still think some sort of technology is a good thing. Elizabeth shared a point of view that I'd not fully considered before and that's the fact that humans can't ever be trusted to use the technology correctly and that's why she believes it should be scrapped.

My first instinct, probably quite a stereotypical male one, is to think 'but there must be a fix' - however after a few days of reflection and upon watching those tapes, I did actually wonder whether it's completely true. Maybe it's just human nature that we'll never get it right.

I think most football fans agree that 'clear and obvious errors' are what we're attempting to eradicate. It sounds so simple in practice doesn't it? The reality however, is so much more opaque.

Take Leny Yoro's goal against Fulham for Manchester United. Two hands in the back of Calvin Bassey, allowing for a fairly simple header into the goal.



I mean, I can clearly and obviously see that Yoro pushed Bassey, but then does it meet the 'high bar'? Is it a horrendous mistake? Well, no, pushing happens in the box all the time and maybe Calvin Bassey should be a bit stronger. Suddenly, a simple decision is tangled up in a jumbled mess.

Currently, the PGMOL is far too reactive when fixing a previous crisis - and it's part of the reason that I'm not sure the apologies and public scolding of officials is a great thing.

I am willing to wager decent money that in the next two-to-three game weeks there's a goal that is allowed even though there's a really obvious foul in the build-up. To make things worse, it'll be probably be in heartbreaking circumstances such as a top fourteam equalising against a newly-promoted side. The VAR will have the Josh King incident in the front of their minds and they'll be desperate to avoid a similar mistake.

After watching the King tapes with the referee mic recording, it's clear to me that the process is deeply, deeply flawed. Why are the referees talking so much to the VAR? Why are they still calling each other nicknames? It was so evident how easy it was for one flawed opinion to over-power all the other opinions in a matter of seconds.

Of course, lots of solutions are out there for how to fix VAR. Gary Lineker always talks about having an appeal/challenge system, time limits are a regular suggestion and scrapping it altogether is one, increasingly popular, opinion.

If VAR has to stay, then you have to remove ways for one wrong opinion to influence the panel. It's clear that Michael Salisbury interpreted that situation wrong, and look, that's understandable. We all are guilty, dozens of times per season, of jumping to a wrong conclusion. That's life - it happens.

If Michael Salisbury and the assistant VAR were working independently and they had to each give a green light to whether that was a mistake, it's clear that there would have been a 50/50 split. The chances of one referee seeing something wrong are fairly high, but the chances of two or three referees making the exact same mistake are incredibly slim.

Separating out the video assistants and creating some sort of adjudication system surely will help eradicate errors and ensure that only 'clear and obvious' mistakes are examined. They need to make the VAR process much more clinical, stop yapping so much and just be there to stop the on-pitch referee from dropping a howler.

I like Howard Webb and the way he fronts up to the challenges of VAR. The honesty and openness has been a refreshing change from the past. What I do wonder though is whether, as a former referee, he has all the qualities necessary to really implement VAR properly. When you see VAR's flaws, it's not necessarily a refereeing problem, but a problem with the system.

Now of course, it may just be the Howard is the face and there are systems analysts working on the process in the background, but what's alarming is that nearly two years after the infamous Luis Diaz incident, where miscommunication led to PGMOL's biggest crisis to date, it feels like the same mistakes are happening and the process doesn't seem to have evolved that much.

Maybe, as Elizabeth said, we should just scrap the whole thing and just admit that the utopia will never be achieved.



https://www.fulhamish.co.uk/p/will-there-ever-be-a-solution-to

[/quote]