POST MATCH: Leeds

[ffcthereligion]

I just don't understand why, after an unbeaten run with nice results, MS would switch which side wingers would play on.  Wilson has had a nice run recently, always on the right side.  Why move him over to the other side?

He didn't move him to the "other side". HW played centrally.

And even with Sessegnon, who has collaborated in the past, though limited pairings, with Robinson on the left

When exactly has that happened? Sess has never started at LW for Fulham.

I did post 'limited pairings'. I just seem to recall several times? when they both played moving forward positions on the left.  Maybe I'm wrong?  And I do think Sessegnon has played LW at FFC.  Again, I could be wrong.  Also, not sure Sessegnon has ever played down the right side....

He played RW multiple times last season

[Chi_FFC]

I just don't understand why, after an unbeaten run with nice results, MS would switch which side wingers would play on.  Wilson has had a nice run recently, always on the right side.  Why move him over to the other side?

He didn't move him to the "other side". HW played centrally.

And even with Sessegnon, who has collaborated in the past, though limited pairings, with Robinson on the left

When exactly has that happened? Sess has never started at LW for Fulham.

I did post 'limited pairings'. I just seem to recall several times? when they both played moving forward positions on the left.  Maybe I'm wrong?  And I do think Sessegnon has played LW at FFC.

He's literally spent at most ~20 minutes in ~4 short late game sub appearances on the LW for Fulham. Can you actually point to a time in those appearances where Sess looked "dangerous" with Robinson?

Also, not sure Sessegnon has ever played down the right side....

He's actually started 4 times for us at RW prior to yesterday (playing ~280 minutes including our win against Liverpool last season in which he scored).

[Matt10]

Watching Leeds this year, they have an admirable and sensible survival plan. Win the battle of midfield through energy and organisation because winning that battle leads to good overall outcomes.  It compensates for shortfalls in quality and it makes other players blossom - witness DCL.  They will stay up and Farke is doing a great job there.

So we turned up, in full knowledge of how Leeds go about games, with a midfield pair of Lukic and Berge who, whatever their individual merits, spent much of calendar year 2025 losing the battle of midfield when played as a pair.

We lost and the takeaway that they just don't work as a pair was so already apparent that one wonders if the penny will ever drop.

I mean, look, I understand the bandwagon hate that those two are getting - but at the same time I just went through the entire match and found ZERO moments where those two were being run off the pitch. Leeds have an extremely wide formation with 5 midfielders. Our pressure to the attacking midfielders was met all the way up by Andersen and Cuenca, while Berge dropped in the gap/zone for Aaronson's runs while Lukic stuck with Ampadu.

Has anyone criticizing them actually provided a specific moment or sequence? I'd love to review it, because I just don't feel like I'm watching the same game.

Continuing with the hate popularity, this game needed someone to drag their wide midfielders, and Sessegnon wasn't that man, neither was Wilson when he moved over - that's because Gudmundsson absolutely dominated both of them. This is where it would've made more sense for someone like Traore to take a crack. I know the boo birds don't want him to put the shirt on ever again, but that's just ridiculous. He would be able to receive the ball, stop it, and draw in their defenders - much like he did vs Boro. I think that would've been a much better option than throwing Josh King into the mix - not that I'm not a fan of the kid, but we needed something different.

[wback100]

Funny that, after a good run, with the league so tight, a bad result yesterday, and many around us getting decent results (including, it seems, Everton), we might end the weekend 12th. Which is about where we were when the decent run started.

It's a bit frustrating, because that's where we always are, and though we've not been amazing this season, there are so many examples of "a minute of better concentration here" and "a VAR decision there", we could be 7-10 points better off and in a truly unbelievable position.

Hopefully we don't slack off like we normally do once "safe" and, with a basically full squad, end up in Europe.

[hopper]

I don't think too much to worry about yesterday, it was a disappointing performance but Leeds did well at stopping us from building our play. I felt that the players struggled a bit with the atmosphere and there was a slight hot potato effect where nobody from our team could really get a grip on it. The changes didn't seem to make any difference either.

Chalk it down to one of those days. The big downside is that sounds as though Lukic is going to be out for quite a while and ESR also may have had a knock.

Not a lot of positives to really report but I'm not really that concerned. First time at Elland road, terrible away end (not the fans but the enclosure) but a great atmosphere, really impressed with the home support.

[KentFulham]

I don't think too much to worry about yesterday, it was a disappointing performance but Leeds did well at stopping us from building our play. I felt that the players struggled a bit with the atmosphere and there was a slight hot potato effect where nobody from our team could really get a grip on it. The changes didn't seem to make any difference either.

Chalk it down to one of those days. The big downside is that sounds as though Lukic is going to be out for quite a while and ESR also may have had a knock.

Not a lot of positives to really report but I'm not really that concerned. First time at Elland road, terrible away end (not the fans but the enclosure) but a great atmosphere, really impressed with the home support.

Leeds uspport was very good. Luckic being out will force Silva's hand in moving away from the ultra defensive setup of late.

[AnotherVicHalomLoveChild]

and to round off a very disappointing weekend for us Everton win & jump above us   

[demeant0r]

and to round off a very disappointing weekend for us Everton win & jump above us   

Disappointing but the previous six games were not. I don't think Sess playing on the right was the correct move but he's played several games before on the right where he was magnificent. I think the biggest gripe was playing the Berge/Lukic double pivot again vs a team we were expecting to dominate.

[Arthur]

This is where it would've made more sense for someone like Traore to take a crack... He would be able to receive the ball, stop it, and draw in their defenders - much like he did vs Boro.

I didn't see the game but the thoroughness of your analysis is there for all to see. I assume your call for Traore's introduction is on the basis his drawing two-or-three defenders towards him would have afforded his team-mates more time and space on the ball. This, however, would only have worked had he been able to get the ball to one of them - something he often failed to do against Boro.

[perry geyton]

When I saw the line up I was bitterly dissapointed, why mess with a winning formula , after being up all night with the worst flu ever, coughing my guts up all night then having to endure that  Horrible game , everyone was off especially Harry and Ryan

Oh well

I hate Leeds "supporters" but I do like they're manager I must admit, happy for him cos he deserves it

[Matt10]

This is where it would've made more sense for someone like Traore to take a crack... He would be able to receive the ball, stop it, and draw in their defenders - much like he did vs Boro.

I didn't see the game but the thoroughness of your analysis is there for all to see. I assume your call for Traore's introduction is on the basis his drawing two-or-three defenders towards him would have afforded his team-mates more time and space on the ball. This, however, would only have worked had he been able to get the ball to one of them - something he often failed to do against Boro.

I think that's a bit more of bandwagon mentality because I made a post here in a deleted thread (I think?) about Traore's match vs Boro. He had a bad moment or two, but before that I went by each of his sequences - 3 of which we could've found the back of the net from his play. There's no question he found his teammates by drawing 2-3 defenders to his side. If he'd play RW vs Leeds, he'd force Gudmundsson to stay further back or even an adjustment to Leeds tactics completely considering they play with two right wingbacks with Bogle and Justin.

It's all hindsight though and who knows what version of Traore we'd see. That's the main issue with him for me, not sure what to expect from him anymore so all I can do is assume he'd be the threat he was vs Boro. I just figure someone who is going to demand more defensive focus would've been Traore, which should've given more space for someone like Wilson playing central as a result.

[Arthur]

I think that's a bit more of bandwagon mentality because I made a post here in a deleted thread (I think?) about Traore's match vs Boro. He had a bad moment or two, but before that I went by each of his sequences - 3 of which we could've found the back of the net from his play. There's no question he found his teammates by drawing 2-3 defenders to his side.

I am surprised at your suggestion my criticism of Traore's use of the ball against Boro is 'bandwagon mentality'. While I recognise that a recording affords the opportunity to focus solely upon one player's involvement, I was at the game and I am capable of forming my own opinion; I respect many others' views but I don't need to read this forum to make up my mind.

In my opinion, Traore started the game against Boro confidently, but the longer it went on, the less effective was his performance. If I were to watch a recording, I agree there would be a couple of occasions when he uses his pace to gain a yard of space on the full back and deliver a dangerous cross. But I think I would see more than just 'a bad moment or two'. There would be instances in which, in my view, having drawn opposition players to him, he held on to the ball too long to no positive end and other instances in which he misplaced passes or lost possession, sloppily at times. I expect I would come to the same conclusion I drew at the time: Overall, Traore's performance was too error-ridden and indecisive to merit acclaim.

[Sting of the North]

@cookieg @Sting of the North so we "looked better" despite creating less chances and conceding more. Sure, that makes perfect sense. There's no denying his importance in the Liverpool and Chelsea performances or the vital part he played in the Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough matches, but yesterday he really didn't have any sort of impact, objectively. That sub didn't improve us, if anything we got worse.

I also see people blaming Berge, or Raul or whoever and for some reason very few people blame Sess who was our worst player by a country mile. I think it's good that people aren't being overly critical of Sess, but some people are being very hypocritical, as they'd absolutely murder pretty much every other player if they played like that.

It seems like you can't say anything negative about e.g. TC and Sess. And I wasn't even being critical of TC. He did fine, I just don't think that change helped us improve, like some people do.

Loads of posters has pointed out how poor a game Sess had.

Instead of using stats (that basically just shows that we created almost nothing at all during 90 minutes+), you could just have stated that in your opinion the midfield was better before TC came on.

TC was one part of the puzzle, involving 21 other players. I think you overestimate one players contribution to the overall stats, for a very, very small sample size (I like stats a lot, but they are almost useless unless the sample sizes are quite large, in my opinion). Personally I preferred to watch the game and at least very briefly enjoy that we had someone that dared picking up the ball from the defenders, and actually had the skill and confidence to at least try to use it for something that resembled constructive purposes. Haven't rewatched it (because it was a horrible game of football), and maybe I was just happy to see anything that wasn't more of the same.

I didn't say that it was wrong to start Berge and Lukic, neither did I state that TC was fantastic or above critique. 

[SerbianLad]

@Sting of the North Since it's a long post I won't quote it.

I really don't think the reaction to Sess' performance was comparable to that of any other player after a similar level of performance. Again, I prefer it that way, I just wish other players weren't abused after they have poor performances. I also still think that, from what I've seen online, more people are blaming Berge-Lukic partnership or even someone like Raul for the loss, when clearly they weren't as poor as Sess was.

I did state that our midfield was better. And we might not have created much before either, but it was more than 3 times the xG and also we had some openings that didn't end up with a shot (like the time Raul misplaced the pass to Wilson that would have seen him one on one with their keeper). On the other side, they bypassed our midfield with ease when Lukic came off injured. I don't think it's insignificant that they had the same amount of shot in less than half the time. The criticism I often see of Berge-Lukic partnership is the one thing I don't think they can be criticised for, and that's losing the midfield battle. I think that since last season they lost the midfield battle maybe 2 or 3 times in total. They usually physically dominate the opponents and therefore most of the danger comes from the wings. The biggest downside of them playing together is that we are more reliant on creativity of our front 4.

I don't think I overestimate the effect a sub can have. When TC comes on it changes the game, everyone (including me) say how he changed the match. Again, I don't think he was poor today. I have a problem with people saying how he was one of the positives and helped changed the match and how we briefly played better, which I think is completely made up, based on both subjective opinion and objective things like stats.

As for the last bit, you might not have said that, but a lot of fans have said it. A lot have even blamed the loss on the two of them starting.

P.S. And this isn't aimed at you at all, how is the lineup against Leeds more defensive then the ones against Liverpool or Chelsea? We had 4 defenders compared to 5,and we had 4 attacking players compared to 3.

[KentFulham]

@Sting of the North Since it's a long post I won't quote it.

I really don't think the reaction to Sess' performance was comparable to that of any other player after a similar level of performance. Again, I prefer it that way, I just wish other players weren't abused after they have poor performances. I also still think that, from what I've seen online, more people are blaming Berge-Lukic partnership or even someone like Raul for the loss, when clearly they weren't as poor as Sess was.

I did state that our midfield was better. And we might not have created much before either, but it was more than 3 times the xG and also we had some openings that didn't end up with a shot (like the time Raul misplaced the pass to Wilson that would have seen him one on one with their keeper). On the other side, they bypassed our midfield with ease when Lukic came off injured. I don't think it's insignificant that they had the same amount of shot in less than half the time. The criticism I often see of Berge-Lukic partnership is the one thing I don't think they can be criticised for, and that's losing the midfield battle. I think that since last season they lost the midfield battle maybe 2 or 3 times in total. They usually physically dominate the opponents and therefore most of the danger comes from the wings. The biggest downside of them playing together is that we are more reliant on creativity of our front 4.

I don't think I overestimate the effect a sub can have. When TC comes on it changes the game, everyone (including me) say how he changed the match. Again, I don't think he was poor today. I have a problem with people saying how he was one of the positives and helped changed the match and how we briefly played better, which I think is completely made up, based on both subjective opinion and objective things like stats.

As for the last bit, you might not have said that, but a lot of fans have said it. A lot have even blamed the loss on the two of them starting.

P.S. And this isn't aimed at you at all, how is the lineup against Leeds more defensive then the ones against Liverpool or Chelsea? We had 4 defenders compared to 5,and we had 4 attacking players compared to 3.

On your last point, I dont think it is more defensive than Liverpool/Chelsea, it was equally. However, we dont need to be equally defensive against Leeds.

On Lukic I would say it went downhill for the partnership on the Yellow card rather than when he went off. The yellow was needless given he threw a tackle in on the turn without even looking at the ball/player, Lukic on a yellow is a very innefective player. I like both Berge and Lukic, just not together. To your point we become reliant on the front 4 for creativity, when I would prefer a 5th creative player in the middle

[SerbianLad]

On your last point, I dont think it is more defensive than Liverpool/Chelsea, it was equally. However, we dont need to be equally defensive against Leeds.

On Lukic I would say it went downhill for the partnership on the Yellow card rather than when he went off. The yellow was needless given he threw a tackle in on the turn without even looking at the ball/player, Lukic on a yellow is a very innefective player. I like both Berge and Lukic, just not together. To your point we become reliant on the front 4 for creativity, when I would prefer a 5th creative player in the middle

I think it's more offensive personally.

I do agree that the yellow hampered us a bit. However, even after the yellow he played well. He had that superb run that ended up being our only shot on target. He also set up Sess late on in the firat half and then he had a good run in to box where he almost had another header, but it went for a corner.

I also agree it was needless, however, in typical Kavanagh fashion he was as inconsistent as ever. There were worse fouls that didn't result in a booking. It was literally his first and only foul.

I think against certain opponents and when our attackers are in top form, the Berge-Lukic partnership works perfectly. They dominate the middle and we therefore concede very few chances and if our attackers are in good form we create enough chances to score multiple goals. Brentford match from this season is a perfect example. King gifted them a goal, but apart from that we defended superbly, particularly because of the Berge-Lukic partnership. Our attack was as fluid as it has been this season in that match too.