Ranieri and Transfers.

[Statto]

Seri may just be upset because he's found out Tony Khan/Mackintosh allowed Nice to take a massive bonus off him when he was sold.

Mr S. why is it Tony Khan/Mackintosh fault, Fulham agree fee, surely how the buying club decide what to do with the income is not up to them/player/agent.

Without trying to be rude, you do tend to lump everything you don't like on them, is this purely because you don't like them.

I'm open-minded about this Seri story and may well change my mind if/when more information comes to light Alfie.

I find it hard to believe that nothing in the paperwork we were required to sign said what we were paying for each player.

Even if it was all treated as a single fee, a single £30m payment for both players, did we know (or ought we have known) about the percentage of Seri's fee due to him, and that by treating it as one payment for both players, we were giving Nice the opportunity to keep for themselves a few million that would otherwise have been due to Seri? Of course if it emerges that we did a reasonable amount of due diligence and it just didn't uncover that information, then fine, I agree FFC are free from blame here. But personally I also think that unlikely, at this point.

[toshes mate]

What nobody has satisfactorily explained is why this awful system has got us promotion?  Why Joka stuck with it. Why this squad started the season playing ok but suddenly lost their way completely.

Because of Tony Khan buddy, it's all his fault. Everything

That's your GP prescribed pill doing the talking, I presume.  Must be good stuff.

No I have been keeping an eye on your posts in last 24 hrs and everything is Tony Khans fault, I agree with a poster on another forum you have a problem with him

But I am not alone in 'having a problem with him' judging by the comments of many others who you haven't chosen to pick on.

Im not picking on you, making me sound like a bully. But you cannot pin every failing on the Khans I just think it's very singleminded of you.
It's your opinion of course but I don't understand it

Well why didn't you say that in the first place?  If you feel like a bully then that is your problem not mine.

[..FOF..]

What nobody has satisfactorily explained is why this awful system has got us promotion?  Why Joka stuck with it. Why this squad started the season playing ok but suddenly lost their way completely.

Joka Snapchat message Mitro himself after Kline got thrown out by the police.

Targett also seems to be Joka's handiwork.

Joka got his way last January and then got us promoted.

It seems the board were trying to revive their own system again after the promotion.

Anyway, glad that CR is happy with the set up.

I just find the 2 "Yes" system probably counter productive.... the coach can just say No No No and then everybody panic towards the closing bell.

Maybe that was why most of our signings came on the last day.

[alfie]

Seri may just be upset because he's found out Tony Khan/Mackintosh allowed Nice to take a massive bonus off him when he was sold.

Mr S. why is it Tony Khan/Mackintosh fault, Fulham agree fee, surely how the buying club decide what to do with the income is not up to them/player/agent.

Without trying to be rude, you do tend to lump everything you don't like on them, is this purely because you don't like them.

I'm open-minded about this Seri story and may well change my mind if/when more information comes to light Alfie.

I find it hard to believe that nothing in the paperwork we were required to sign said what we were paying for each player.

Even if it was all treated as a single fee, a single £30m payment for both players, did we know (or ought we have known) about the percentage of Seri's fee due to him, and that by treating it as one payment for both players, we were giving Nice the opportunity to keep for themselves a few million that would otherwise have been due to Seri? Of course if it emerges that we did a reasonable amount of due diligence and it just didn't uncover that information, then fine, I agree FFC are free from blame here. But personally I also think that unlikely, at this point.

Fair answer thanks, I understand we should know what we are paying for each player, not sure our business what Nice do with the money, and would have thought that players agent would/should have been on top of this.

[Neutral Zone Ultra]

I think the notion that we got promoted in spite of the transfer system rather than with the aid of it is complete and utter rubbish. Also what is rubbish is the idea that our system is so outlandishly different from any other club's system, and that we are somehow going against convention.

[SG]

I think the notion that we got promoted in spite of the transfer system rather than with the aid of it is complete and utter rubbish. Also what is rubbish is the idea that our system is so outlandishly different from any other club's system, and that we are somehow going against convention.

Agreed. Everything I read suggests that the system we employ is similar to many if not most Premiership clubs. No longer are managers allowed to bring in their favourites as that simply leads to turmoil when the manager goes and the new manager comes in and wants his favourites. Although valid debates could be had concerning the specific individuals.
Joka never really managed to crack the problem of a weak defence even last season and that is our Achilles heal now. It is interesting reading quotes from the Leicester back four, Morgan, Huth, Simpson etc when they one the League - how CR drilled into them the position they were expected to be in at various stages of an attack. Sounded very much how Roy worked. On the evidence so far this season we have to assume the defenders have not been coached in such a way

[Lighthouse]

What nobody has satisfactorily explained is why this awful system has got us promotion?  Why Joka stuck with it. Why this squad started the season playing ok but suddenly lost their way completely.

Joka Snapchat message Mitro himself after Kline got thrown out by the police.

Targett also seems to be Joka's handiwork.

Joka got his way last January and then got us promoted.

It seems the board were trying to revive their own system again after the promotion.

Anyway, glad that CR is happy with the set up.

I just find the 2 "Yes" system probably counter productive.... the coach can just say No No No and then everybody panic towards the closing bell.

Maybe that was why most of our signings came on the last day.

Yes but the run had started before Mitro joined. Yes made a big difference but that wasn't the turning point. Most clubs would use this system. No coach has the time to scout and look for players. He will tell whoever needs to be told the type of players needed. Which was the problem under Kline who seemed to have his own ideas what the team needed.

[..FOF..]

What nobody has satisfactorily explained is why this awful system has got us promotion?  Why Joka stuck with it. Why this squad started the season playing ok but suddenly lost their way completely.

Joka Snapchat message Mitro himself after Kline got thrown out by the police.

Targett also seems to be Joka's handiwork.

Joka got his way last January and then got us promoted.

It seems the board were trying to revive their own system again after the promotion.

Anyway, glad that CR is happy with the set up.

I just find the 2 "Yes" system probably counter productive.... the coach can just say No No No and then everybody panic towards the closing bell.

Maybe that was why most of our signings came on the last day.

Yes but the run had started before Mitro joined. Yes made a big difference but that wasn't the turning point. Most clubs would use this system. No coach has the time to scout and look for players. He will tell whoever needs to be told the type of players needed. Which was the problem under Kline who seemed to have his own ideas what the team needed.

I agree the coach do not focus on the actual physical scouting.

He does gives direction on who to scout or which area of the world should the scouting be done.

This is because only the coach understands the full tactics and who is best to implement it.

Khan's way is to take it from a pool of data. The human factor such as player coach chemistry, player's character and values are probably not very high in priorities.

Asking the coach to explain his tactics to a a person who came from a non football background would probably be more of a time not used very well.

Yes the run started before Mitro arrived.... imagined what would happen if Joka gave permission to let Kline sit in the dugout and control who plays.

There would probably be unhappiness in the management which will affect focus.

Joka got Kline kicked out to ensure that the good run continues, then got a free pass in January to get a bigger say in transfers.

We barely made it to the playoff and that is caused by the boardroom's meddling in the first half of that season.

Anyway, looking forward, I hope CR have a better EQ skills to deal with our boardroom style.

Joka straightforward style have allowed CR to see clearly what he is getting into.

[Lighthouse]

'We barely made it to the playoff and that is caused by the boardroom's meddling in the first half of that season.'

Sorry FOF but again that is the idea that the players were all poor or didn't fit into the system but suddenly they did after the coach weaved his magic. Didn't believe it then and it makes no logical sense now. Still don't understand why we started well without getting the results we deserved this season and then went backwards in performance. Blaming the system alone doesn't make sense.

[RaySmith]

Surely it's impossible to ensure that every player  brought by club will be a success, however, the players are chosen - which is bound to be related to a number of variables, such as  price, do they want to come to the club,  wages etc.

Slavisa was supposedly involved in he transfer process under the tick box  method, and as said it's impossible for a manager/coach to scout and select every possible player considered suitable for an offer to be made to bring them to the club. And is Fulham's method different from most other clubs?

I can see that the very top clubs managers can say 'get me so and so' naming a famous name, but for most clubs they have to  scout and research to find players who may be both right , within the right budget, and available.

As Lighthouse said, Fulham's transfer process doesn't seem to have  done so bad, considering that Slavisa made the players into such a successful team - a team  that was broken up on promotion  through outside factors, such as players on loan fron clubs that didn't want to sell, and players wanting to move on.

Big money was spent on bringing in players  of the right quality necesary  for the Prem - and we  needed  a  number of players in a very short time, just to put a team out, and  as cover in  every position, and nearly eveyone agreed that these seemed  good buys, and congratulated  the owners on bringing such players to the club.

And I think most of these players could still prove to be good buys.

[..FOF..]

'We barely made it to the playoff and that is caused by the boardroom's meddling in the first half of that season.'

Sorry FOF but again that is the idea that the players were all poor or didn't fit into the system but suddenly they did after the coach weaved his magic. Didn't believe it then and it makes no logical sense now. Still don't understand why we started well without getting the results we deserved this season and then went backwards in performance. Blaming the system alone doesn't make sense.

Kline wanted some players to be given major playing time, on top of sitting in the dugout during matches.

That was meddling after they finished with their transfer job.

I think that would cause poor result when other camps in the squad knows that undeserving players are being given preferential treatments.

Joka sidelined those players bought by the boardroom that is not performing straight into the under-23s.

I believe this was done to lift morale up again and separate the toxic.

After that our fortunes turned.

Kline got thrown out.

Joka finds replacement players.

We got promoted.

The boardroom's way of working was left opened for all to see and that will be a boon for CR.

[toshes mate]

And there was me thinking football was a team game with results being the product of hard work by players and coaches on the training ground, but now I am lead to believe that is only true when you want it to back whatever agenda others say you have. 

One thing I noted about SJ was he stepped away from transfer issues the moment he was clear what his impact upon them was, and he instead concentrated all effort on delivering performances from his side.  This season just happened to be very similar to his first summer window when results were all over the place with 5-0 wins mixed up with unexpected defeats as the misfits tried to sort themselves out in defence, midfield and attack - much like we have witnessed all over again.  And now we have another unknown to add to the equation.  Some supporters are a complete mystery to me I have to say.

[Sting of the North]

I think the notion that we got promoted in spite of the transfer system rather than with the aid of it is complete and utter rubbish. Also what is rubbish is the idea that our system is so outlandishly different from any other club's system, and that we are somehow going against convention.

This is really all that needs to be said regarding our transfer system I believe. All clubs use analytics nowadays, and basically no manager is heavily responsible for player recruiting. Of course there are varying degrees of involvement for different managers in different set ups, and also varying degrees of reliance on analytics, but to think that our system is that different from most clubs is, frankly, quite ridiculous.

That Kline was a bad egg that disrupted the harmony within the club does not change the above. 

[@jolslover]

'We barely made it to the playoff and that is caused by the boardroom's meddling in the first half of that season.'

Sorry FOF but again that is the idea that the players were all poor or didn't fit into the system but suddenly they did after the coach weaved his magic. Didn't believe it then and it makes no logical sense now. Still don't understand why we started well without getting the results we deserved this season and then went backwards in performance. Blaming the system alone doesn't make sense.

Kline wanted some players to be given major playing time, on top of sitting in the dugout during matches.

That was meddling after they finished with their transfer job.

I think that would cause poor result when other camps in the squad knows that undeserving players are being given preferential treatments.

Joka sidelined those players bought by the boardroom that is not performing straight into the under-23s.

I believe this was done to lift morale up again and separate the toxic.

After that our fortunes turned.

Kline got thrown out.

Joka finds replacement players.

We got promoted.

The boardroom's way of working was left opened for all to see and that will be a boon for CR.

Strange way of looking at it. Don't think this is real and quite strange to claim it as fact if your not sure.
I know for a fact the daily mail printed a retraction on the article saying that Kline wanted to sit in the dugout. So that's not real.
What makes you think Targett and Christie were Jokas ideas? If it was up to Joka we would have had Cameron Jerome up front ..

[@jolslover]

I think the notion that we got promoted in spite of the transfer system rather than with the aid of it is complete and utter rubbish. Also what is rubbish is the idea that our system is so outlandishly different from any other club's system, and that we are somehow going against convention.

100%

[toshes mate]

This is really all that needs to be said regarding our transfer system I believe. All clubs use analytics nowadays, and basically no manager is heavily responsible for player recruiting. Of course there are varying degrees of involvement for different managers in different set ups, and also varying degrees of reliance on analytics, but to think that our system is that different from most clubs is, frankly, quite ridiculous.

That Kline was a bad egg that disrupted the harmony within the club does not change the above. 

Most football clubs do not have the son of their owner in charge of 'analytics' (whatever you think that means), recruitment policy and delivery, which makes, in my books, FFC a special case.  We are not 'all clubs', we are a unique football club which has similarities with every other football clubs in that it plays competitive games, holds registration of players, has supporters, a ground etc., etc.       

[..FOF..]

'We barely made it to the playoff and that is caused by the boardroom's meddling in the first half of that season.'

Sorry FOF but again that is the idea that the players were all poor or didn't fit into the system but suddenly they did after the coach weaved his magic. Didn't believe it then and it makes no logical sense now. Still don't understand why we started well without getting the results we deserved this season and then went backwards in performance. Blaming the system alone doesn't make sense.

Kline wanted some players to be given major playing time, on top of sitting in the dugout during matches.

That was meddling after they finished with their transfer job.

I think that would cause poor result when other camps in the squad knows that undeserving players are being given preferential treatments.

Joka sidelined those players bought by the boardroom that is not performing straight into the under-23s.

I believe this was done to lift morale up again and separate the toxic.

After that our fortunes turned.

Kline got thrown out.

Joka finds replacement players.

We got promoted.

The boardroom's way of working was left opened for all to see and that will be a boon for CR.

Strange way of looking at it. Don't think this is real and quite strange to claim it as fact if your not sure.
I know for a fact the daily mail printed a retraction on the article saying that Kline wanted to sit in the dugout. So that's not real.
What makes you think Targett and Christie were Jokas ideas? If it was up to Joka we would have had Cameron Jerome up front ..

In the reply before that I said Mitro and Targett. I did not reference to the rest.

My apologies if the dugout story was a story retracted.

In each reply here I referred it back to Ranieri and how the saga can be helpful to him in terms of transparency.

That should be the focus, Joka is done here at Fulham.

My replies here are all to steer it back to CR and the future.

[Sting of the North]

This is really all that needs to be said regarding our transfer system I believe. All clubs use analytics nowadays, and basically no manager is heavily responsible for player recruiting. Of course there are varying degrees of involvement for different managers in different set ups, and also varying degrees of reliance on analytics, but to think that our system is that different from most clubs is, frankly, quite ridiculous.

That Kline was a bad egg that disrupted the harmony within the club does not change the above. 

Most football clubs do not have the son of their owner in charge of 'analytics' (whatever you think that means), recruitment policy and delivery, which makes, in my books, FFC a special case.  We are not 'all clubs', we are a unique football club which has similarities with every other football clubs in that it plays competitive games, holds registration of players, has supporters, a ground etc., etc.     

You are correct in that most clubs do not have the son of the owner in charge of recruitment. I am not at all convinced that Khan Jr. is the right person for that position. However, that is a problem with the man, not the system.

'Analytics' is supposed to refer to the dreaded 'Money ball' methods that is supposedly used by Tony (and with Kline in charge previously). This is of course used to some extent by all professional football clubs in addition to traditional scouting. In case that was unclear.

[toshes mate]

This is really all that needs to be said regarding our transfer system I believe. All clubs use analytics nowadays, and basically no manager is heavily responsible for player recruiting. Of course there are varying degrees of involvement for different managers in different set ups, and also varying degrees of reliance on analytics, but to think that our system is that different from most clubs is, frankly, quite ridiculous.

That Kline was a bad egg that disrupted the harmony within the club does not change the above. 

Most football clubs do not have the son of their owner in charge of 'analytics' (whatever you think that means), recruitment policy and delivery, which makes, in my books, FFC a special case.  We are not 'all clubs', we are a unique football club which has similarities with every other football clubs in that it plays competitive games, holds registration of players, has supporters, a ground etc., etc.     

You are correct in that most clubs do not have the son of the owner in charge of recruitment. I am not at all convinced that Khan Jr. is the right person for that position. However, that is a problem with the man, not the system.

'Analytics' is supposed to refer to the dreaded 'Money ball' methods that is supposedly used by Tony (and with Kline in charge previously). This is of course used to some extent by all professional football clubs in addition to traditional scouting. In case that was unclear.

I think it is a problem with both the man and the system since TK uses his own (with Kline) system of selection which is the reason he tries to push it so hard on the Club.  I don't expect you to understand why that is a serious flaw in the whole set or take my word for it, but the evidence is clearly there that it is a serious deficiency which needs to be corrected.

[Sting of the North]

This is really all that needs to be said regarding our transfer system I believe. All clubs use analytics nowadays, and basically no manager is heavily responsible for player recruiting. Of course there are varying degrees of involvement for different managers in different set ups, and also varying degrees of reliance on analytics, but to think that our system is that different from most clubs is, frankly, quite ridiculous.

That Kline was a bad egg that disrupted the harmony within the club does not change the above. 

Most football clubs do not have the son of their owner in charge of 'analytics' (whatever you think that means), recruitment policy and delivery, which makes, in my books, FFC a special case.  We are not 'all clubs', we are a unique football club which has similarities with every other football clubs in that it plays competitive games, holds registration of players, has supporters, a ground etc., etc.     

You are correct in that most clubs do not have the son of the owner in charge of recruitment. I am not at all convinced that Khan Jr. is the right person for that position. However, that is a problem with the man, not the system.

'Analytics' is supposed to refer to the dreaded 'Money ball' methods that is supposedly used by Tony (and with Kline in charge previously). This is of course used to some extent by all professional football clubs in addition to traditional scouting. In case that was unclear.

I think it is a problem with both the man and the system since TK uses his own (with Kline) system of selection which is the reason he tries to push it so hard on the Club.  I don't expect you to understand why that is a serious flaw in the whole set or take my word for it, but the evidence is clearly there that it is a serious deficiency which needs to be corrected.

What evidence is clearly there? Is it the fact that we have failed so far in the PL?