Does everybody on here remain 100% convinced that it is going to start in May ?
Might be sticking my neck out a bit here but
I still dont think its going to happen,
Im predicting a statement before the end of March along the lines of "complexities of the site" or "lead in times" blah, blah, blah, so we are delaying it by one year so that "we can deliver a World Class product"
This gives the Khan's an opportunity to see exactly how far we fall and what the consequences are,
Before all the snowflakes reply with "Dont care about The Riverside Stand, defenders are more important" the two issues are completely different and should never be merged.
So over to you good people, will it happen (not should it happen) this summer, yes or no ?
N.B I really hope it does.
It needs to happen, agree completely that this different to signing players. The stand should hopefully remain in place for years to come, hopefully keeping Fulham secure at CC.
However, like you I believe it will not happen.
What is the total cost of the redevelopment?
Quote from: davew on January 24, 2019, 06:39:32 PM
What is the total cost of the redevelopment?
An arm and a leg, whose arm and whose leg remains to be seen, but it's worth it.
I believe it will happen and I also believe the owner and his son have our best interests
at heart, but yet another downbeat post by yourself, is there anything our club can do
that pleases you?, and I will remind you of your comments when the building starts.I do
in the interests of clarity believe the club could and should have provided the manager
with a new central defender by now. Ken44
Kismet is supposed to be worth in excess of $200m
In comparison the cost of the Shadid Khan Riverside Stand will be a drop in the ocean and is not likely to dent his net worth
Quote from: fcfulham55 on January 24, 2019, 06:35:23 PM
It needs to happen, agree completely that this different to signing players. The stand should hopefully remain in place for years to come, hopefully keeping Fulham secure at CC.
However, like you I believe it will not happen.
Eric miller thought the riverside stand was a good idea but was a fincial disaster. Only the arrival of maf, who invested sensibly in the club, saw it being filled regularly.
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
If we get relegated, I guess there is a chance the Khans may think the FFC project is too tough for them. They may look for an exit and I guess that would jeopardise the building.
If they are still here, I believe it will start.
It's actually the main reason I am fully behind them. A rebuilt stand pretty much guarantees our long-term future and I, for one, will be eternally grateful for them for that.
It will happen. It's a real estate project not a football one. There is cash to be made whatever division we are in. It's a property no brainer.
Riverside resteraunts, cafes, facilities for weddings etc etc etc. Apartments worth £1m cash annually...this is a money making venture and that's what Khan is good at. These facilities will be worth a mint, and this real estate will only increase in value. Khan has even got permission to build over the river Thames at one of its most valuable places. So yes, it will go ahead.
My understanding is that Mr Khan has never sold any of his companies..... Can't see any reason not to go ahead with the redevelopment.... Logically it's got to be done, so why not in May
Sorry but why is someone who cares less about the stand and more about defenders a "snowflake"? I don't get that.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 24, 2019, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: davew on January 24, 2019, 06:39:32 PM
What is the total cost of the redevelopment?
An arm and a leg, whose arm and whose leg remains to be seen, but it's worth it.
My guess is it will cost a lot more than the £100 million estimated, but as equity financied stadium building doesn't come under FFP budget rules it really only affects Mr Khan pocket. Hence. Tony Khan can spend more and more without interferance from FIFA and UEFA (assuming it is equity financed by Mr Khan). And, I think Mr Khan will enjoy building a stadium rather having than more private jets.
The stand will be providing 10,000 tickets per game and if sold at Arsenal Prices could raise £16 million per year, allowing Fulham to spend an extra £300,000 per week on players (that is about the wages of Babel, Cahill and Moses combined). Of course, if some of the money spent on players is spent wisely, we will get more tv revenue and corporate sponsorship, but don't be fooled it will help us very slowly (partly cause we won't get Arsenal ticket prices in the riverside stand for a long long time).
In truth, with the extra stadium it still won't be easy to get promoted or stay in premier league. We still won't be able to buy ourselves great results, but we will be able to hold on to good players for longer. I think with the stadium and the Khans, we will yo-yo for a time, but once we achieve 17th in Premier League and hold on to our best players, we will be able to attract bigger players and get more money.
Building the Stadium is more important than avoiding relegation, because we need to have one of the 30 Biggest Stadiums in Engalnd to compete and combined with a rich demographic of fans be one of England's top 15 clubs of the next decade.
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
If you want to know how much Stadium size helps a team long-term; then consider this statistics.
Top 10 Clubs Average League Attendances for 100 Years Ago (not in order)
Manchester United
Manchester City
Liverpool
Everton
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham Hotspur
Newcastle United
Aston Villa
Sunderland
Or look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971%E2%80%9372_Football_League#First_Division
Since 1971-71 not a lot changes, even through teams go down
1st-2nd (Not in EPL) Leeds & Derby
3rd (EPL TOP 6) Liverpool
4th (EPL TOP 6) Man City
5th (EPL TOP 6) Arsenal
6th (EPL TOP 6) Spurs
7th (EPL TOP 6) Chelsea
8th (EPL TOP 6) Man Utd
10th Wolves
11th Newcastle
12th Leicester
14th West Ham
15th Everton
19th Southampton
20th Crystal Palace
9th-21st (Not in EPL) WBA, Sheffield United, Stoke City, Ipswich, Nottingham Forest, Coventry
22nd Huddersfield
29th Burnley
23rd-40th (Not in EPL) Norwich, Middlesbrough, Hull, Birmingham, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Blackpool
41st Cardiff
42nd Fulham
44th Watford
46th Brighton
47th Bournmouth
43rd-45th (Not in EPL) Aston Villa and Charlton Athletic
Stadium Size buys players. I even believe FFP Rules are riggged to make sure the teams with the "most gate revenue and other revenue" get the best players and hence more "TV money" than those with Rich Owners.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:43:31 AM
If you want to know how much Stadium size helps a team long-term; then consider this statistics.
Top 10 Clubs Average League Attendances for 100 Years Ago (not in order)
Manchester United
Manchester City
Liverpool
Everton
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham Hotspur
Newcastle United
Aston Villa
Sunderland
Or look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971%E2%80%9372_Football_League#First_Division
Since 1971-71 not a lot changes, even through teams go down
1st-2nd (Not in EPL) Leeds & Derby
3rd (EPL TOP 6) Liverpool
4th (EPL TOP 6) Man City
5th (EPL TOP 6) Arsenal
6th (EPL TOP 6) Spurs
7th (EPL TOP 6) Chelsea
8th (EPL TOP 6) Man Utd
10th Wolves
11th Newcastle
12th Leicester
14th West Ham
15th Everton
19th Southampton
20th Crystal Palace
9th-21st (Not in EPL) WBA, Sheffield United, Stoke City, Ipswich, Nottingham Forest, Coventry
22nd Huddersfield
29th Burnley
23rd-40th (Not in EPL) Norwich, Middlesbrough, Hull, Birmingham, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Blackpool
41st Cardiff
42nd Fulham
44th Watford
46th Brighton
47th Bournmouth
43rd-45th (Not in EPL) Aston Villa and Charlton Athletic
Stadium Size buys players. I even believe FFP Rules are riggged to make sure the teams with the "most gate revenue and other revenue" get the best players and hence more "TV money" than those with Rich Owners.
That was the 1971 league table. Fulham historically average about 16,000 which puts us, I think in 33rd place in the historical league attendance table which strangely is the same as our league position.
Totally agree about club ground size though, need to grow or stand still/regress
Quote from: Twig on January 24, 2019, 11:36:11 PM
Sorry but why is someone who cares less about the stand and more about defenders a "snowflake"? I don't get that.
your not on your own with that statement.
The only 'rational' reasons for Khan Snr buying FFC seem related to either his son or the NFL or both, and even then I may be stretching the word rational a little too far. I have to say the idea of making CC a multi-purpose stadia has always attracted me but only one of the prototype builds filled me with inspiration and it isn't the one finally decided on. I still believe there is still an opportunity to extract more money from the site than simply football income but it involves being much more adventurous than the current plan envisages, but would be hugely expensive, risky, and involves the whole stadium without spoiling the Stevenage Road facade. Only if the Khans decide they have had enough will the Riverside be put on hold, IMO.
Quote from: hovewhite on January 25, 2019, 07:05:52 AM
Quote from: Twig on January 24, 2019, 11:36:11 PM
Sorry but why is someone who cares less about the stand and more about defenders a "snowflake"? I don't get that.
your not on your own with that statement.
+1
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Quote from: Riversider on January 24, 2019, 05:41:29 PM
Does everybody on here remain 100% convinced that it is going to start in May ?
Might be sticking my neck out a bit here but
I still dont think its going to happen,
Im predicting a statement before the end of March along the lines of "complexities of the site" or "lead in times" blah, blah, blah, so we are delaying it by one year so that "we can deliver a World Class product"
This gives the Khan's an opportunity to see exactly how far we fall and what the consequences are,
Before all the snowflakes reply with "Dont care about The Riverside Stand, defenders are more important" the two issues are completely different and should never be merged.
So over to you good people, will it happen (not should it happen) this summer, yes or no ?
N.B I really hope it does.
I think it will but I also think that it's part of a longer term plan to diversify the site into non football activity....which would make the football side more sustainable by bringing in more income. If (when) it starts, it shows Khan's desire to pump in cash and forgoing cheaper options; thus it must be cheaper to build while we ground share elsewhere as, in season, the building work will have to stop on game days at the Cottage which must increase costs and disruption.
I did post a theory some time ago which said that we would go for promotion, collect the Premiership money for one season, get relegated but collect the parachute monies and play in the Championship for a couple of years while the building work is carried out...then go for promotion with a 30000 stadium. Some bits are coming true!
Regardless of how capable we deem the Khans, the vision appears to remain in tact, that they want Fulham Football Club to be a top flight team pushing as high as possible. It makes sense, then, to invest in the club's stadium, where such an investment would serve benefits both on and off match days. I cannot see this not happening. However, yesterday I accidentally walked into the Thames thinking it was Sainsbury's so I might be wrong about this.
NFR - Brentford's new stadium is flying up...looking like the framework for 1 side & 2 ends are already up
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
There's always one 😩
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
the owners might care which means we should care. Surely it would make sense to sell it and ground share with Brentford so that we could pump more money into the better team that you are after. Or we could redevelop the stand which gives us a better revenue stream, to pump money into the better team that you are after, and and it ensures our long term survival at the cottage. And the other two options are break ffp to get the better team, or finally do absouletly nothing and live by our means as a top half championship team.
Ben: We've 'pumped' £100M already and where has that got us? The money has never been in doubt, it's the wisdom of those pressing the spend button that is in question.
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
You were on here not so long ago whining that Khan was asset stripping us for a sale, so you probably don't want the new stand so it allows you to keep peddling that angle rather than being proven wrong. The most successful teams are also as a rule of thumb, the richest, so arguably why would you want the club to not press ahead with something that makes us more money and allows us to be more successful from a financial perspective? 3 of the stands on our much loved stadium are knackered and need replacing/seriously updating anyway, so if you don't do it now, when do you do it?
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
what would established mean in your eyes?
We have been talking about this stand for some years now and clearly there has been too much talk. I have always said I will believe it is going to happen only when the first cubic metre of concrete is poured.
Also I would preferred a development that would have improved all sides of the ground to give more comfort to all fans together with an increase in capacity to over 30,000 rather than a giant new stand by the river having the purpose more of a giant monument than a genuine stadium improvement.
Quote from: filham on January 25, 2019, 05:36:35 PM
We have been talking about this stand for some years now and clearly there has been too much talk. I have always said I will believe it is going to happen only when the first cubic metre of concrete is poured.
Also I would preferred a development that would have improved all sides of the ground to give more comfort to all fans together with an increase in capacity to over 30,000 rather than a giant new stand by the river having the purpose more of a giant monument than a genuine stadium improvement.
That's been my thoughts also.
Quote from: filham on January 25, 2019, 05:36:35 PM
We have been talking about this stand for some years now and clearly there has been too much talk. I have always said I will believe it is going to happen only when the first cubic metre of concrete is poured.
Also I would preferred a development that would have improved all sides of the ground to give more comfort to all fans together with an increase in capacity to over 30,000 rather than a giant new stand by the river having the purpose more of a giant monument than a genuine stadium improvement.
The thing is though, the Khans probably couldn't win because if they announced plans to do all three sides of the ground at once, it'd naturally start the conspiracy theorists off about moving us away from the cottage and selling it, as inevitably you'd have to move grounds while the work was underway. Doing the Roverside first gives you the scope to move away from the Cottage to do the Putney and Hammersmith stands while the ground is still making money via the retail units in the updated Riverside stand. Plus work to both ends will take a very long time to sort out, owing to the fact we've got no room to manoeuvre with Bishops park at one end and a built up area right behind the Hammersmith end
I just feel that the club is so badly managed and this season has become such a total disaster..... who cares about a new stadium ?
Look at Darlington
If Khans want to invest in a stadium and make money...go and buy Wembley
Quote from: MJG on January 25, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Personally I'd like to hear some numbers.
SF Sorrow makes a good point that we aren't going to get more than 24,000 fans outside the PL so the additional matchday revenue will be zero. In the PL an extra 5,000 fans will equate to what, an extra £3-4m per year or something like that? A meaningless amount in the PL.
The non-matchday revenue needs to be equating to £15m per year or something like that to have any bearing on our success IMO, even in the Championship. Anything much less than that and it's about as useful as the MJ statue.
Quote from: MikeW on January 25, 2019, 05:03:07 PM
Ben: We've 'pumped' £100M already and where has that got us? The money has never been in doubt, it's the wisdom of those pressing the spend button that is in question.
So how does not upgrading the stadium change that?
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 25, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Personally I'd like to hear some numbers.
SF Sorrow makes a good point that we aren't going to get more than 24,000 fans outside the PL so the additional matchday revenue will be zero. In the PL an extra 5,000 fans will equate to what, an extra £3-4m per year or something like that? A meaningless amount in the PL.
The non-matchday revenue needs to be equating to £15m per year or something like that to have any bearing on our success IMO, even in the Championship. Anything much less than that and it's about as useful as the MJ statue.
how many people ever saw us getting 25k again in the cottage, when we were lingering near the bottom of the fourth division? If we so not try to progress, we will only ever go backwards. It's not even like the money for this is coming out of our transfer budget. We haven't sold the jewels to fund it, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth, and embrace what will be a fantastic new stand for decades to come. I can't imagine many other fans being so against an upgrade, let alone fans from teams whose stadium is seen as prime location for flats by everyone not connected to the club
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 25, 2019, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
You were on here not so long ago whining that Khan was asset stripping us for a sale, so you probably don't want the new stand so it allows you to keep peddling that angle rather than being proven wrong. The most successful teams are also as a rule of thumb, the richest, so arguably why would you want the club to not press ahead with something that makes us more money and allows us to be more successful from a financial perspective? 3 of the stands on our much loved stadium are knackered and need replacing/seriously updating anyway, so if you don't do it now, when do you do it?
Just curious - which stand isn't knackered?
Quote from: Holders on January 25, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 25, 2019, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
You were on here not so long ago whining that Khan was asset stripping us for a sale, so you probably don't want the new stand so it allows you to keep peddling that angle rather than being proven wrong. The most successful teams are also as a rule of thumb, the richest, so arguably why would you want the club to not press ahead with something that makes us more money and allows us to be more successful from a financial perspective? 3 of the stands on our much loved stadium are knackered and need replacing/seriously updating anyway, so if you don't do it now, when do you do it?
Just curious - which stand isn't knackered?
The Hot Dog Stand.
Quote from: Holders on January 25, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 25, 2019, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
You were on here not so long ago whining that Khan was asset stripping us for a sale, so you probably don't want the new stand so it allows you to keep peddling that angle rather than being proven wrong. The most successful teams are also as a rule of thumb, the richest, so arguably why would you want the club to not press ahead with something that makes us more money and allows us to be more successful from a financial perspective? 3 of the stands on our much loved stadium are knackered and need replacing/seriously updating anyway, so if you don't do it now, when do you do it?
Just curious - which stand isn't knackered?
The JH stand to a point, as it's a listed building so has to be maintained to particular standards and is also expected to be worn out to a certain degree, but then again you're not taking that away because it's the quintessential stand alongside the cottage, and even so it's the only structure that you look at and don't think "yeah that probably needs to come down fairly soon"
Quote from: fulhamben on January 25, 2019, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 25, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Personally I'd like to hear some numbers.
SF Sorrow makes a good point that we aren't going to get more than 24,000 fans outside the PL so the additional matchday revenue will be zero. In the PL an extra 5,000 fans will equate to what, an extra £3-4m per year or something like that? A meaningless amount in the PL.
The non-matchday revenue needs to be equating to £15m per year or something like that to have any bearing on our success IMO, even in the Championship. Anything much less than that and it's about as useful as the MJ statue.
how many people ever saw us getting 25k again in the cottage, when we were lingering near the bottom of the fourth division? If we so not try to progress, we will only ever go backwards. It's not even like the money for this is coming out of our transfer budget. We haven't sold the jewels to fund it, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth, and embrace what will be a fantastic new stand for decades to come. I can't imagine many other fans being so against an upgrade, let alone fans from teams whose stadium is seen as prime location for flats by everyone not connected to the club
Where have I said I'm against it? I'm just saying that unless there's a clear, realistic business plan under which it can bring in lots of non-matchday revenue, then it's essentially pointless, just a shiny empty cuboid next to the pitch for us to look at.
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 25, 2019, 08:20:27 PM
Quote from: Holders on January 25, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 25, 2019, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: Baszab on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
Couldn't care less about the new stand
I want the team to be successful
Who cares if the owners can make money out of it?
I genuinely hope it doesn't happen until we are established in Premier after the next promotion in 2021
You were on here not so long ago whining that Khan was asset stripping us for a sale, so you probably don't want the new stand so it allows you to keep peddling that angle rather than being proven wrong. The most successful teams are also as a rule of thumb, the richest, so arguably why would you want the club to not press ahead with something that makes us more money and allows us to be more successful from a financial perspective? 3 of the stands on our much loved stadium are knackered and need replacing/seriously updating anyway, so if you don't do it now, when do you do it?
Just curious - which stand isn't knackered?
The JH stand to a point, as it's a listed building so has to be maintained to particular standards and is also expected to be worn out to a certain degree, but then again you're not taking that away because it's the quintessential stand alongside the cottage, and even so it's the only structure that you look at and don't think "yeah that probably needs to come down fairly soon"
I'd agree, I just wasn't sure which one you meant as, of course, the Riverside is the newest but arguably the most knackered.
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 25, 2019, 06:48:02 PM
Quote from: filham on January 25, 2019, 05:36:35 PM
We have been talking about this stand for some years now and clearly there has been too much talk. I have always said I will believe it is going to happen only when the first cubic metre of concrete is poured.
Also I would preferred a development that would have improved all sides of the ground to give more comfort to all fans together with an increase in capacity to over 30,000 rather than a giant new stand by the river having the purpose more of a giant monument than a genuine stadium improvement.
The thing is though, the Khans probably couldn't win because if they announced plans to do all three sides of the ground at once, it'd naturally start the conspiracy theorists off about moving us away from the cottage and selling it, as inevitably you'd have to move grounds while the work was underway. Doing the Roverside first gives you the scope to move away from the Cottage to do the Putney and Hammersmith stands while the ground is still making money via the retail units in the updated Riverside stand. Plus work to both ends will take a very long time to sort out, owing to the fact we've got no room to manoeuvre with Bishops park at one end and a built up area right behind the Hammersmith end
No the work to the whole stadium could have been done in planned stages that would have enabled matches to continue.
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on January 25, 2019, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 25, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Personally I'd like to hear some numbers.
SF Sorrow makes a good point that we aren't going to get more than 24,000 fans outside the PL so the additional matchday revenue will be zero. In the PL an extra 5,000 fans will equate to what, an extra £3-4m per year or something like that? A meaningless amount in the PL.
The non-matchday revenue needs to be equating to £15m per year or something like that to have any bearing on our success IMO, even in the Championship. Anything much less than that and it's about as useful as the MJ statue.
how many people ever saw us getting 25k again in the cottage, when we were lingering near the bottom of the fourth division? If we so not try to progress, we will only ever go backwards. It's not even like the money for this is coming out of our transfer budget. We haven't sold the jewels to fund it, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth, and embrace what will be a fantastic new stand for decades to come. I can't imagine many other fans being so against an upgrade, let alone fans from teams whose stadium is seen as prime location for flats by everyone not connected to the club
Where have I said I'm against it? I'm just saying that unless there's a clear, realistic business plan under which it can bring in lots of non-matchday revenue, then it's essentially pointless, just a shiny empty cuboid next to the pitch for us to look at.
There is. It's the tonnes of commercial floor space generating rent that this prime space generates **** all at the moment.
The new stand is pointless if we are not going to establish ourselves as a genuine premiership fixture.
Eric miller lost money, so will mr khan. Get the team right first.
The new stand will help us in the future even if we get relegated. It will generate income for the club that doesn't just rely on football gates and shirt etc. sales, which will help protect a bit from ffp transgressions.
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Quote from: flyingfish on January 26, 2019, 08:44:25 AM
There is. It's the tonnes of commercial floor space generating rent that this prime space generates fcuk all at the moment.
The ground is in a residential area. The ground has access problems as it is at the moment (no direct public transport at all with no viable private vehicle parking). The ground occupies space that has not been tested for commercial viability in its entire history. The ground occupies space with considerable potential as a residential property asset (which has, of course, been explored in the past). Looking at ways of developing income from CC other than from football has been looked at many times historically but even the current planned build will be risky for commercial ventures given the number of restrictions imposed by riverside access issues in the planning brief. I'd say there is a lot of research and discussion that needs to be and could be done if money were no object to the Khans before going ahead. But that is just my lay opinion.
Quote from: toshes mate on January 26, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: flyingfish on January 26, 2019, 08:44:25 AM
There is. It's the tonnes of commercial floor space generating rent that this prime space generates fcuk all at the moment.
The ground is in a residential area. The ground has access problems as it is at the moment (no direct public transport at all with no viable private vehicle parking). The ground occupies space that has not been tested for commercial viability in its entire history. The ground occupies space with considerable potential as a residential property asset (which has, of course, been explored in the past). Looking at ways of developing income from CC other than from football has been looked at many times historically but even the current planned build will be risky for commercial ventures given the number of restrictions imposed by riverside access issues in the planning brief. I'd say there is a lot of research and discussion that needs to be and could be done if money were no object to the Khans before going ahead. But that is just my lay opinion.
but first and foremost it's a new stand to increase match day capacity. The rest is a Brucie.
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on January 25, 2019, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 25, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Personally I'd like to hear some numbers.
SF Sorrow makes a good point that we aren't going to get more than 24,000 fans outside the PL so the additional matchday revenue will be zero. In the PL an extra 5,000 fans will equate to what, an extra £3-4m per year or something like that? A meaningless amount in the PL.
The non-matchday revenue needs to be equating to £15m per year or something like that to have any bearing on our success IMO, even in the Championship. Anything much less than that and it's about as useful as the MJ statue.
how many people ever saw us getting 25k again in the cottage, when we were lingering near the bottom of the fourth division? If we so not try to progress, we will only ever go backwards. It's not even like the money for this is coming out of our transfer budget. We haven't sold the jewels to fund it, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth, and embrace what will be a fantastic new stand for decades to come. I can't imagine many other fans being so against an upgrade, let alone fans from teams whose stadium is seen as prime location for flats by everyone not connected to the club
Where have I said I'm against it? I'm just saying that unless there's a clear, realistic business plan under which it can bring in lots of non-matchday revenue, then it's essentially pointless, just a shiny empty cuboid next to the pitch for us to look at.
Look at the attendances we had in the championship...the new stand would not be empty in that league.
Can't believe the Khan's haven't done all sorts of probabilities around making money on this venture to proceed, whatever Div we are in. They make a lot of money in many ventures and I doubt very much their business acumen is poor!
We can have sour grapes about the football as we are going down by the looks of things, but there investment in our ground and team cant be questioned yet.
Agreed poor decision making on players may be an issue right now but that does not mean they aren't 100% behind the club.
Time as ever will tell, just glad we have the Cottage to go to!
Quote from: FulhamStu on January 26, 2019, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on January 25, 2019, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: Statto on January 25, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 25, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on January 25, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 24, 2019, 07:19:58 PM
Actually think it helps if it happens when we get relegated; less hassle moving people from the Riverside as gates will be less!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Having a bigger stadium than Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and QPR is important to Fulham's future. Only Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham will have bigger grounds in the Capital.
Having a Stadium of 30,000 vitually guarantees that any team that fall into League One will get out because 30,000 tickets sold at very low prices is enough to buy players to get out League One (except for MK-Dons and Coventry that i don't believe own their stadiums). For example, I believe Sunderland and Charlton Athletic will be in the Championship in not too long.
How exactly are we going to sell 30.000 tickets in League One?
The stand is really designed to be 20% matchday and 80% non matchday, so in many ways what league we are in makes no difference given the location and new facilities that could be used.
Personally I'd like to hear some numbers.
SF Sorrow makes a good point that we aren't going to get more than 24,000 fans outside the PL so the additional matchday revenue will be zero. In the PL an extra 5,000 fans will equate to what, an extra £3-4m per year or something like that? A meaningless amount in the PL.
The non-matchday revenue needs to be equating to £15m per year or something like that to have any bearing on our success IMO, even in the Championship. Anything much less than that and it's about as useful as the MJ statue.
how many people ever saw us getting 25k again in the cottage, when we were lingering near the bottom of the fourth division? If we so not try to progress, we will only ever go backwards. It's not even like the money for this is coming out of our transfer budget. We haven't sold the jewels to fund it, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth, and embrace what will be a fantastic new stand for decades to come. I can't imagine many other fans being so against an upgrade, let alone fans from teams whose stadium is seen as prime location for flats by everyone not connected to the club
Where have I said I'm against it? I'm just saying that unless there's a clear, realistic business plan under which it can bring in lots of non-matchday revenue, then it's essentially pointless, just a shiny empty cuboid next to the pitch for us to look at.
Look at the attendances we had in the championship...the new stand would not be empty in that league.
Perhaps I should clarify I didn't mean literally empty
But even in our promotion season it was only 80% full on average
If we are doubling the size of that stand then simple maths tells you it will be about 40% full
But anyway the fundamental point being made was that increasing the total capacity of the stadium doesn't bring in more matchday revenue unless we're selling out the existing capacity
Personally I think the whole 'business outline' is flawed unless corporate sponsors with money to burn are going to arrive in bucket loads simply because the new stand will be too good to be true from any non-football related POV, thus justifying the twenty-eighty percent perspective MJG has mentioned. I think those figures are 'pie-in-sky' unless, somehow, CC is to be a mecca for the Hammersmith commercial scene as it already is, by providing something that isn't already there. I don't see anything in the brief that isn't already there either in Hammersmith or on the Thameside walkways existing in the area. Those are competitors that have to be beaten by whatever project is considered.
Please stop going on about attendance revenue - it's peanuts compared to TV money/sponsorship/corporate fees
No Premier team = no point in redeveloping the ground
My thoughts are that the longer the development is delayed, the higher the cost of the project.
It is I imagine inevitable that it it built, and needs to be built, and has to be built, if we are not going to be left behind the other clubs in London.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 26, 2019, 02:41:03 PM
My thoughts are that the longer the development is delayed, the higher the cost of the project.
It is I imagine inevitable that it it built, and needs to be built, and has to be built, if we are not going to be left behind the other clubs in London.
That was the argument when the existing Riverside was built. It cost £300,000.
Quote from: Baszab on January 26, 2019, 12:20:27 PM
Please stop going on about attendance revenue - it's peanuts compared to TV money/sponsorship/corporate fees
No Premier team = no point in redeveloping the ground
might as well rent a pitch in a park someone eh?
Quote from: Baszab on January 26, 2019, 12:20:27 PM
Please stop going on about attendance revenue - it's peanuts compared to TV money/sponsorship/corporate fees
No Premier team = no point in redeveloping the ground
But therein lies one of the reasons for the new stand, it'll make money year round rather than 18/23 days guaranteed per year which gives the club even more money. There's no link between the playing staff and the ground, Khan can easily invest in both as he did with the Jaguars as both will need improving.
In a Nutshell, the Riverside Stand needs to be built ASAP, for so many different reasons on and off the pitch, that have been explained by more informative people than I.
No matter which Division we happen to be in at the time.
Have no fear or doubts or scepticism about the project, it's necessary and once it is completed, we should all be pleased with the outcome I would like to think.
I'm also worried about the stand's financing
Will it be out of cash flow or reserves ? I doubt it
Will it be a secured loan from Khans ?
And if we drop to the 3rd division ? And the Khans want their money out
We're left with debts and a crap team ?
No-one knows the Khans' long term plans - probably not even them
Quote from: Baszab on January 26, 2019, 04:30:16 PM
I'm also worried about the stand's financing
Will it be out of cash flow or reserves ? I doubt it
Will it be a secured loan from Khans ?
And if we drop to the 3rd division ? And the Khans want their money out
We're left with debts and a crap team ?
No-one knows the Khans' long term plans - probably not even them
As you missed answering me below, what in your view is established in the PL?
I feel we have to speculate to accumulate, whatever is happening on the pitch.
I sm sure It will be another string to the financial bow.
If we really want to be positive, it could easily run in conjunction with the playing side, with regards to attracting new players. In the same way as our improvements in training facilities at Motspur Park.
Quote from: Baszab on January 26, 2019, 04:30:16 PM
I'm also worried about the stand's financing
Will it be out of cash flow or reserves ? I doubt it
Will it be a secured loan from Khans ?
And if we drop to the 3rd division ? And the Khans want their money out
We're left with debts and a crap team ?
No-one knows the Khans' long term plans - probably not even them
You can relax - they're not going to ask you to pay for it - so nothing for you to worry about.
His yacht is supposed to be worth in excess of $200m so the cost of the Shadid Khan Riverside Stand will be a drop in the ocean
I wouldn't worry. There's no way this ever gets built.
Hopefully The F.S.T will ask at the next meeting " When do you intend to contact existing Riverside season ticket holders to discuss their intentions and preferences for season 2019/2020 and explain what their options are"
In my mind, until that contact is made, it ain't happening,
February next week, time is fast running out.
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Hopefully The F.S.T will ask at the next meeting " When do you intend to contact existing Riverside season ticket holders to discuss their intentions and preferences for season 2019/2020 and explain what their options are"
In my mind, until that contact is made, it ain't happening,
February next week, time is fast running out.
I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago on this subject and they are finalising communicating what will happen hopefully over next couple of weeks at last timescale I was given.
I am sure I will be paying for the new stand - I have 4 season tickets and their prices will be rising considerably I have no doubt
Quote from: MJG on January 26, 2019, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Hopefully The F.S.T will ask at the next meeting " When do you intend to contact existing Riverside season ticket holders to discuss their intentions and preferences for season 2019/2020 and explain what their options are"
In my mind, until that contact is made, it ain't happening,
February next week, time is fast running out.
I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago on this subject and they are finalising communicating what will happen hopefully over next couple of weeks at last timescale I was given.
Thats good to hear, thank you
IMO, Fulham are the most succesfully Premier League Team with a Stadium of <26,000.
EPL Premier League Clubs in order of points won with stadiums currently less than 26,000
1 Fulham 586 Points
2 Wigan Athletic 331 Points
3 Swansea City
4 Queens Park Rangers
5 Portsmouth
6 Watford
7 Hull City
8 Burnley 157 Points
9 Bournemouth
10 Reading
11 Oldham Athletic
12 Bradford City
13 Blackpool
14 Huddersfield Town
15 Barnsley
16 Swindon Town
We need a 30,000 Seater Stadium with at least one luxury stand, if we want to be an EPL club in a "FFP Rules" era.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 29, 2019, 12:37:01 AM
IMO, Fulham are the most succesfully Premier League Team with a Stadium of <26,000.
EPL Premier League Clubs in order of points won with stadiums currently less than 26,000
1 Fulham 586 Points
2 Wigan Athletic 331 Points
3 Swansea City
4 Queens Park Rangers
5 Portsmouth
6 Watford
7 Hull City
8 Burnley 157 Points
9 Bournemouth
10 Reading
11 Oldham Athletic
12 Bradford City
13 Blackpool
14 Huddersfield Town
15 Barnsley
16 Swindon Town
We need a 30,000 Seater Stadium with at least one luxury stand, if we want to be an EPL club in a "FFP Rules" era.
Did you do that yourself?
Good work
And yet, according to MJG, match day capacity is only 20% of the revenue requirement business model of a successful football club in the Fulham area. In other words it's a seriously big increase in the 80% revenue income from the Riverside that is really sought unless match day numbers are increased (i.e. by non - Fulham related fixtures because the stadium is a good place to hold a professional sport fixture or other event). It all seems risky to me.
Quote from: MJG on January 26, 2019, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Hopefully The F.S.T will ask at the next meeting " When do you intend to contact existing Riverside season ticket holders to discuss their intentions and preferences for season 2019/2020 and explain what their options are"
In my mind, until that contact is made, it ain't happening,
February next week, time is fast running out.
I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago on this subject and they are finalising communicating what will happen hopefully over next couple of weeks at last timescale I was given.
A month has now passed and still nothing, it's March tomorrow, time is running out if it hasn't already .
Quote from: Riversider on February 28, 2019, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 26, 2019, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Hopefully The F.S.T will ask at the next meeting " When do you intend to contact existing Riverside season ticket holders to discuss their intentions and preferences for season 2019/2020 and explain what their options are"
In my mind, until that contact is made, it ain't happening,
February next week, time is fast running out.
I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago on this subject and they are finalising communicating what will happen hopefully over next couple of weeks at last timescale I was given.
A month has now passed and still nothing, it's March tomorrow, time is running out if it hasn't already .
Time ran out long ago and never said goodbye.
Quote from: Riversider on February 28, 2019, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 26, 2019, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Hopefully The F.S.T will ask at the next meeting " When do you intend to contact existing Riverside season ticket holders to discuss their intentions and preferences for season 2019/2020 and explain what their options are"
In my mind, until that contact is made, it ain't happening,
February next week, time is fast running out.
I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago on this subject and they are finalising communicating what will happen hopefully over next couple of weeks at last timescale I was given.
A month has now passed and still nothing, it's March tomorrow, time is running out if it hasn't already .
I was certainly expecting something by now. I have been at a further meeting since that post and its all steam ahead, only this week the club asked for some input into FAQ's they are going to put out to ST holders in the stand when the information goes live. I'm as frustrated as all over the delay in letting everyone know where they are sitting.
The increasing delay is both baffling and concerning.
Quote from: Riversider on February 28, 2019, 02:39:47 PM
The increasing delay is both baffling and concerning.
Not sure baffling is the right word, its frustrating for sure, but lots of moving parts and agreements to get in place before sending the info out.
There is only one person now who will decide to stop it and thats the owner. As far as everyone else is concerened its going ahead with work to do that taking place everyday.
I would humbly suggest that, as supporters, we have got much more to worry about than a new stand
We're about to crash into the Championship and if preparations in the summer are similar to 2018, the squad will be decimated and we will be in bottom 3 by Xmas 2019
The likelihood is that Summer 2019 preparations will be even less productive than 2018 - except in the flogging off of TC RS amd Mitro - that I am sure the owners will be pro-active in
Please......let's give the new stand a rest - as pointed out match day revenues are minor cw TV and other advertising revenues
I shall not Stand for it, and I will not take it Sitting down either.
Quote from: Baszab on February 28, 2019, 03:07:07 PM
I would humbly suggest that, as supporters, we have got much more to worry about than a new stand
We're about to crash into the Championship and if preparations in the summer are similar to 2018, the squad will be decimated and we will be in bottom 3 by Xmas 2019
The likelihood is that Summer 2019 preparations will be even less productive than 2018 - except in the flogging off of TC RS amd Mitro - that I am sure the owners will be pro-active in
Please......let's give the new stand a rest - as pointed out match day revenues are minor cw TV and other advertising revenues
I would humbly suggest that you couldn't be any more wrong if you tried,
The Riverside Stand signals commitment from Shahid Khan for at least the next 10 years, no Riverside Stand means he could put his toys back in the box , sell up and leave whenever he likes, leading to more turmoil and disruption,
The Riverside Stand is far more important than Fulham playing in The Championship, this development must happen, and it must happen this summer.
I would even more humbly suggest - that it depends on (i) how it's financed and (ii) what is the purpose ? To raise value to the property/ company but not the team ?That would be worrying