Friends of Fulham

Petrol bombs have been thrown at police and three patrol cars, a bus and buildings have been set on fire in a disturbance in Tottenham, north London.

The incident began after a protest over the fatal shooting of a young man by police on Thursday turned violent.

About 300 people have gathered outside the police station on the High Road.

Members of the community had taken to the streets to demand "justice" after the shooting of 29-year-old father-of-four Mark Duggan.

The BBC's Ben Ando, who is at the scene, described the situation as a "stand off" between police and protesters and said firefighters had come under attack.

Shops looted

Two patrol cars were set alight at about 20:20 BST but officers were not inside at the time.


Click to play
Cdr Stephen Watson: "We had no information to suggest that we would have the scale of disorder that now confronts us"
Shops in the area have also been looted with people seen pushing away shopping trolleys full of goods.

A double decker bus was set on fire at the junction of High Road and Brook Street while a shop on the High Road has also been set alight.

Fire crews were initially unable to reach the shop due to the disorder but later began tackling the flames.

A BBC TV news crew and satellite truck also came under attack from youths throwing missiles.

The youths had begun attacking another police patrol car before the TV crew were targeted and they were withdrawn in the interests of their own safety.

Gazza's just got off the tube at Tottenham Hale carrying a fishing rod, lager and some chicken pot noodles. I think it's going to be alright.

Harry Redknapp just drove by the sky cameras and wound down his window and said "i thought the police tonight were triffic"

Strange how the looting of shops becomes part of political or other types of public protest.

Busy day for the Met today
The charity shield
West ham v Cardiff
and of course Tottenham

Quote from: ron on August 07, 2011, 10:56:42 AM
Strange how the looting of shops becomes part of political or other types of public protest.

Excuses, just excuses - saves them having to spend their welfare on such things. Fiscal policies in action.

Broadwater Farm - yet again - RIP Keith Blakelock.

 I believe there is an injustice in my area and I am feeling really put upon. As a protest I am going to smash a few windows, burn a few cars and go shopping for a new television, some food and many items I don't really want. For I am very cross.

well dont bother going to Comet.....apparently those free laptop offers are only available in thier tottenham branch

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 07, 2011, 12:17:42 PM
I believe there is an injustice in my area and I am feeling really put upon. As a protest I am going to smash a few windows, burn a few cars and go shopping for a new television, some food and many items I don't really want. For I am very cross.

Good job The Gob$hits are playing Harts or is it Hibs .................. not a Europeen side
it is a toilet in N17 but now its a burned out toilet
Log ..................this is nothing like Broadwater .......but I will stop there as I just heard a great outing of breath from LB ............ :59:

Quote from: KCat on August 07, 2011, 12:46:37 PM
Good job The Gob$hits are playing Harts or is it Hibs .................. not a Europeen side
it is a toilet in N17 but now its a burned out toilet
Log ..................this is nothing like Broadwater .......but I will stop there as I just heard a great outing of breath from LB ............ :59:

Sorry KCat, didn't make it clear that this 'Protest' (Sic) started as a march from Broadwater Farm - obviously the next generation has grown up - though I wouldn't imagine Mark, Kevin or Lee would have been there.

it`s all the fault of the Police apparently !!
Can you imagine walking around Tottenham, Stockwell, Harringey or Hackney at 11pm on a saturday night if the Police were ever on strike ? no thanks !
If our forward line have half as many shots as The Operation Trident team over the next ten  months we could be in for a great season.

065.gif  

Now I wish I has spelt European ...proper like the first time  :026:

25/26 years ago the police knew what was going to happen. Charlie the milk man told the locals  and was so concerned wrote to the Met, telling them that no milk bottles were returned from The Farm for many weeks. He got a visit from the local plod telling him not to worry they had it covered.

25 years on cameras are everywhere and the police bend over backwards to facilitate these shameless people.
If anyone is watching SKY ..........did you see that woman trying on a pair of trainers outside a shop that she had raided ??? ..................they all have SKY and the big dishes over that way,  so they must know they would be on TV
how stupid and how little shame these people have but then again they will get away with it .

I like what they have done at tottenham I think it's really brightened the place up and a vast inprovement to what was there before

I am sure the Police are to blame for many things. Problem is when people riot and take their kids along to watch. Then the high moral ground is lost. Anyway we are all missing the bigger picture here.

What is the returns policy on goods obtained during a riot? This DVD player is smoke damaged.

If Looting was an Olympic event we`d be assured of at least one gold next year . :005:

Quote from: KCat on August 07, 2011, 01:16:59 PM
Now I wish I has spelt European ...proper like the first time  :026:

25/26 years ago the police knew what was going to happen. Charlie the milk man told the locals  and was so concerned wrote to the Met, telling them that no milk bottles were returned from The Farm for many weeks. He got a visit from the local plod telling him not to worry they had it covered.

25 years on cameras are everywhere and the police bend over backwards to facilitate these shameless people.
If anyone is watching SKY ..........did you see that woman trying on a pair of trainers outside a shop that she had raided ??? ..................they all have SKY and the big dishes over that way,  so they must know they would be on TV
how stupid and how little shame these people have but then again they will get away with it .

cannot disagree with the facts KCat, though the term "....and the police bend over backwards to facilitate these shameless people. " is WAY wrong. The Police are at the whim of every political party that take power, politicians the public have put into place for that purpose. So, if the public don't like the way the Police are policing local areas, then they just need to get onto their elected officials, because it's those that set Police policy, especially in the Met area. Don't get me wrong, the Police (esp Met) get it wrong many times, the G8 policing was a good example, but that is an operational incident as compared to an area or neighborhood policy, the latter, of course, is what you are referring to above.

Why am I seeing people on Sky News trying to justify the actons of the rioters, and I do not consider myself to be racist, but they all seem to be black.

Quote from: CorkCity on August 07, 2011, 03:57:48 PM
Why am I seeing people on Sky News trying to justify the actons of the rioters, and I do not consider myself to be racist, but they all seem to be black.

I'm not racist either but I can state that they would be black. White people simply don't live in Tottenham!!

There is no justification for what happened last night.

People lost their properties, possesions, businesses and livelihoods at the whim of a couple of hundred idiots hell bent on a ruck.

Quote from: leonffc on August 07, 2011, 04:21:39 PM

Quote from: CorkCity on August 07, 2011, 03:57:48 PM
Why am I seeing people on Sky News trying to justify the actons of the rioters, and I do not consider myself to be racist, but they all seem to be black.

I'm not racist either but I can state that they would be black. White people simply don't live in Tottenham!!

No, they have all gone upmarket and moved to Brixton  :58:

Quote from: CorkCity link=topic=14258.msg :dft012:/quote]I would consider myself racist, but i'm keeping  :033: on this

They've done far worse to their own community than what the police could ever do.

silly silly people.

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 07, 2011, 09:31:23 PM

Quote from: CorkCity link=topic=14258.msg :dft012:/quote]I would consider myself racist, but i'm keeping  :033: on this

HaHa you'll be back after another bottle of wine. When LB's tucked up in bed

Quote from: leonffc on August 07, 2011, 09:40:03 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 07, 2011, 09:31:23 PM

Quote from: CorkCity link=topic=14258.msg :dft012:/quote]I would consider myself racist, but i'm keeping  :033: on this

HaHa you'll be back after another bottle of wine. When LB's tucked up in bed

Nope up at 5.45, no chance. One can of Stella and it's hopefuly the land of nod for me.

Is this where you lot will start calling Tottenham "new Detroit"?  :014:

Quote from: leonffc on August 07, 2011, 09:40:03 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 07, 2011, 09:31:23 PM

Quote from: CorkCity link=topic=14258.msg :dft012:/quote]I would consider myself racist, but i'm keeping  :033: on this

HaHa you'll be back after another bottle of wine. When LB's tucked up in bed

Yep, but when LB gets to kip, the mods over the pond are still awake!!  084.gif

Very strange that the Nando's in Enfield was left unscathed  :022:

Does ANYONE really care? Put a big fence around the whole area and let em get on with it. Oh and I'll have a 50" with the new energy saving mode with a nice surround sound system and a signed picture of Harry Rednapp.

Some of these poor sods have had to walk 12miles to thier nearest currys.

Oh dear, One of today's newspaper  said today that the bullet that got the policeman's radio on Thursday was from a police gun.

LBC RADIO ARE REPORTING ITS KICKING OFF EVERYWERE IN LONDON WELL I SAY EVERYWERE BUT MOVING ALONG NICELY ENFIELD NOW  !

I am sure Murdoch's press will blame the football supporters.

Disgraceful.

Where is David Lammy now that he's needed?

Wicked lawbreakers of course but there are elephants on the street called rage, frustration, alienation, deprivation and austerity.

We choose governments who choose how unequal and unfair society should be. There are consequences.

We could and should order things better but that means investing in education and jobs rather than foreign wars and tax cuts for the rich.

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 08, 2011, 08:28:24 AM

Wicked lawbreakers of course but there are elephants on the street called rage, frustration, alienation, deprivation and austerity.

We choose governments who choose how unequal and unfair society should be. There are consequences.

We could and should order things better but that means investing in education and jobs rather than foreign wars and tax cuts for the rich.

yup

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 08, 2011, 08:28:24 AM

Wicked lawbreakers of course but there are elephants on the street called rage, frustration, alienation, deprivation and austerity.

We choose governments who choose how unequal and unfair society should be. There are consequences.

We could and should order things better but that means investing in education and jobs rather than foreign wars and tax cuts for the rich.

I don't disagree with you Mr Gilroy sir, the government does indeed need to get a sense of perspective on what are, and are not, priorities, particularly when the public purse is stretched. Or even empty.

But how can it be right that a person who has spent his life building up a successful local business that serves the local community have his livelihood destroyed by a bunch of arses who were probably were there for a bit of a rumble and a chance to walk away with some free goods rather than anything more deeper than that?

Someone who works with me is in this situation, her father's business was trashed last night.

Who is to blame? Why, someone else of course. Britain has developed a culture where a good percentage of the population don't need to take responsibility for their actions, but can point an accusing finger at someone else for their plight and a reason for their criminality.

The future looks bright........

i blame rap music and video games

"But how can it be right that a person who has spent his life building up a successful local business that serves the local community have his livelihood destroyed by a bunch of arses who were probably were there for a bit of a rumble and a chance to walk away with some free goods rather than anything more deeper than that?"

It isn't right and it's a bloody tragedy for all those who suffer. My daughter lives in Brixton and spent a very uncomfortable night albeit with her sleeping husband who is training to be a special constable. She'll have many more sleepless nights in future when he's on duty during similar "disturbances"

I still think though that it's the elephants that need to be destroyed.

Unlike a lot on this thread, wise words Tony

I hope your daughter is OK Mr Gilroy sir.

My brother lives in Brixton too, on Brixton Hill, a few doors up from The Fridge.

Just had a Skype exchange with him.

"I was kept awake by the police helicopter for so long that I got up and watched the peripheral goings on from the terrace. I saw a bunch of people trying to hide some looted TVs in the hedge below so I doused them with the garden hose :) They moved off somewhere else without spotting me"

Just wait until the Chinese take over the world, then we will all find out what human rights mean. It's gonna happen. Now, can we get back to football, please

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 10:28:12 AM
Just wait until the Chinese take over the world, then we will all find out what human rights mean. It's gonna happen. Now, can we get back to football, please

Have we signed him yet?

Quote from: Burt on August 08, 2011, 10:31:13 AM

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 10:28:12 AM
Just wait until the Chinese take over the world, then we will all find out what human rights mean. It's gonna happen. Now, can we get back to football, please

Have we signed him yet?

Naaa. He was nicked in Tottenham last night with a 52" plasma and a Bic Mac..

Like any recent unrest, the riots were started by people with genuine concerns, although perhaps in the wrong way of expressing it. The problem is that this has since been infiltrated by young disenfranchised people who have no clue as to what their doing other than causing problems.

I would also go so far as to say that most of these people are uneducated. People looted all of the phones from a mobile phone shop, not realising that the phone shop has all of the IMEI numbers and can shut down the phone immediately.

People were filmed trying on trainers and clothes before stealing them. "Excuse me, do you have these in a size 8?"

Fools.

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 08, 2011, 10:10:41 AM
It isn't right and it's a bloody tragedy for all those who suffer. My daughter lives in Brixton and spent a very uncomfortable night albeit with her sleeping husband who is training to be a special constable. She'll have many more sleepless nights in future when he's on duty during similar "disturbances"

Fair play to your son-in-law, Tony.
It takes nutz the size of melons to join upon the right side these days, and he has a tough time ahead of him. Perhaps if more people that bemoan the way the Police conduct themselves actually got off their backsides and did the same as he is doing, then they might actually understand the real situation, rather than the back-stabbing comments from the armchair. If it wasn't for those boys in blue, some of which would have had to work 12 hours shifts in riot gear, then it would have been a lot worse all over the capital, and elsewhere.

This shows us once again that when the feces his the oscillating device, the constabulary will not be able to protect you, your family, or your property/business.  It's the law abiding populace that has been effectively neutered.

The police, despitemost being decent blokes, are employed by and to protect the very types which Tony listed. It is the unfairness of society which created this happening, then the idiots and looters have to face the storm troopers.

In essence, the powers that be are creating, have created an environment for decent citizen to fight decent citizen. All of this while the people in charge go on holiday. Musn't disrupt the hooray henrys must we.

I don't think decent citizen is fighting decent citizen. The corrupt are jumping on a bandwagon and calling it justice while taking home free televisions. While the decent citizen is pulling the shutters tight hoping they will be ignored. Yes Governments create an atmosphere contusive to Police short cuts and poor policing at the top. But people create the World they live in. We are not all just victims. There are many reasons for the riots. The prime one being people out to take something for nothing and cause damage. Forgetting that the damage will have to be paid for.

There is always blame to spread around but lets remember there are many ways to complain without hurting the decent and steeling from them.

When you have nothing there is nothing left to lose.

The last comments by Lord N, Jarv and LH are all fair comments, and reflect a lot of what the problems are in every western democracy. The rule of law in a democracy is one that reflects public opinion at the time. The voting public have the power to change the line-up of the Police masters (e.g. Politicians and Council leaders) and so, when such powers engage a policy, enacted by the Police, then that is - in actuality - a reflection of those that voted them into power, after all, we all live in this democracy.

The bottom line is that if you don't like it - then change it. One word of warning though, be sure that the grass on the other side of the fence is really green, and not just a reflection from rose-tinted glasses.

Last week I put something in here that was clearly political and I was aked and did withdraw it. Lighthouse has now made this political by his "corrupt government" comment. Surely this thread should now be withdrawn. Oh yes, he is only expressing an opinion.

All comments on this thread are political which is why I hesitated to join in. I'm happy for it to be locked but its noticeable that no one is getting upset with anyone else.

...this topic has been left alone because by and large the debate has been interesting and has not got out of control apart from the odd jibe, I would prefer Lighthouse deleted his own "corrupt" statement (as it is unfair to single out one particular government as being corrupt when ultimately power corrupts and all governments through lack of control or varying degrees of nepotism become corrupt) - so that the debate continues in the same vein - if not then I will lock this post...

I have modified one of my posts and deleted another on this thread. I do hope we are allowed to continue to debate  but will support any decision the Mods take. As life is political it is very hard not to make political points. My apology.

Surprised to read in media about riots reaching Islington. Is that the three spurs students with parents who actually have a job sharing a flat together?

Quote from: finnster01 on August 08, 2011, 02:26:14 PM
Surprised to read in media about riots reaching Islington. Is that the three spurs students with parents who actually have a job sharing a flat together?

Someone heard that the policeman who did the shooting was an Arsenal supporter.

The real damnation on our society is the fact that mindless idiots used Saturdays riots to pillage and steal, all the way in Brixton, no where the area of the death. I guarantee that 99% of those rioting there could even name the dead man involved.

There was also a degree of pre-planning with the incidents in Brixton.

My brother lives there, and noticed that people with stolen electrical goods were taking their ill-gotten gains to a particular location near where he lives. Then a van came in, was loaded off, and off on their merry way they went.

The old bill were plainly stretched and couldn't do a thing about it.

If anyone is going looting tonight could you pick me up a 3D telly, I will give you a good price !

Lets hope they get a handle on this and throw the lot of them in jail. Seems all it takes is a thin veil of outrage to bring out criminal and immoral behavior in some communities.

Are the communities that are being affected seeing any leadership within them speak out against the behavior of their citizens?

Quote from: CorkCity on August 08, 2011, 02:58:56 PM
If anyone is going looting tonight could you pick me up a 3D telly, I will give you a good price !

I'd like to get one of those iPad 2 thingies and one of those Amazon Kindle thingies, perhaps we could arrange a looting session in the Putney Exchange this evening?

Quote from: The Equalizer on August 08, 2011, 03:14:22 PM

Quote from: CorkCity on August 08, 2011, 02:58:56 PM
If anyone is going looting tonight could you pick me up a 3D telly, I will give you a good price !

I'd like to get one of those iPad 2 thingies and one of those Amazon Kindle thingies, perhaps we could arrange a looting session in the Putney Exchange this evening?

Putney!!! No way, any riots are going to be at the Arndale (oh sorry... Southside) in Wandsworth.

I might loot Craven Cottage, starting with the MJ statue then nick all the white shorts and replace them with our traditional black.

If you're rioting because you feel aggrieved by the police/government etc. you don't take your time to try on a few pair of trainers in Foot Locker.

Isnt there such thing as karma? You know youre never going to win a bet watching that tv, and youll probably break your foot tripping on a crack in the pavement in those new shoes.

Kicking off again in Hackney already. Kiddies half term.

The Local council in Tottenham have said that after carrying out a survey of the area hit by the riots today theyassess that the rioters have made 15 million pounds worth of improvements.

Strange that in places like Haiti and New Orleans looting was rife, but none in Japan.

Who would want a radioactive tv Fredster? lol

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 05:17:43 PM
Strange that in places like Haiti and New Orleans looting was rife, but none in Japan.

Not that strange! Haiti and New Orleans are both desperately poor, Japan is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.

I confidently predict that rioting in South Kensington will be limited for the same reasons.

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 05:17:43 PM
Strange that in places like Haiti and New Orleans looting was rife, but none in Japan.

That is because all of the TV's had water damage

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 08, 2011, 05:21:25 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 05:17:43 PM
Strange that in places like Haiti and New Orleans looting was rife, but none in Japan.

Not that strange! Haiti and New Orleans are both desperately poor, Japan is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.

I confidently predict that rioting in South Kensington will be limited for the same reasons.

United States is one of the wealthiest nations as well but we have had issues in places like Los Angeles and other cities. We had some issues up on Milwaukee recently with targeted racial violence by young thugs.

Japan has issues with poverty as well, especially amongst the age groups that most likely take to looting and violence, but you don't see looting there. I'm not trying to equate Japan's poverty issues with say Haiti's but there are places throughout the globe that are more impoverished than London where we just don't see things like what we are seeing in London right now. Poverty is certainly part of the problem but there are others issues at hand as well.

The riots are not poor people who are very cross. They are too busy trying to make a living. Kiddies and drunks are the ones' giving it large' as we in the ghetto like to say. Cus we are tuff innit.

Just got in from work and watching it on sky and i have seen the same person in three different clips just being a yob. Threw something at the police from about six feet away, smashed a bus window and then breaks a ladbrokes window.
The police should just go in smash some heads and throw them all in the back of a van and give them a good 1970`s kicking.
Rant over.

Quote from: MJG on August 08, 2011, 05:40:27 PM
Just got in from work and watching it on sky and i have seen the same person in three different clips just being a yob. Threw something at the police from about six feet away, smashed a bus window and then breaks a ladbrokes window.
The police should just go in smash some heads and throw them all in the back of a van and give them a good 1970`s kicking.
Rant over.

Did you see the two Irish blokes who broke into Ladbrokes? ....... Lost Fifty quid.

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 05:48:51 PM

Quote from: MJG on August 08, 2011, 05:40:27 PM
Just got in from work and watching it on sky and i have seen the same person in three different clips just being a yob. Threw something at the police from about six feet away, smashed a bus window and then breaks a ladbrokes window.
The police should just go in smash some heads and throw them all in the back of a van and give them a good 1970`s kicking.
Rant over.

Did you see the two Irish blokes who broke into Ladbrokes? ....... Lost Fifty quid.

the same ones who were taking all the single trainers from JD Sports yesterday.

Quote from: MJG on August 08, 2011, 05:40:27 PM
Threw something at the police from about six feet away

I've always wondered why the Police don't just do something about these folks - hit 'em with a baton round or something.  They're all tooled up for the job, so why not?  I know the obvious counter-argument is because the rioters are looking for the reaction, which will inevitably lead to further violence.  But it's not like having got no reaction despite wanging a paving slab the offender's going to say "Oh well, no fun to be had here.  If I hurry up I can be home in time for Corrie...", is it?  No, he's going to keep on smashing stuff up.

Or as my old Mum says "If you can't take it, don't dish it out..."

I've been reading this thread without comment since it started. It's not like riots are unknown in London, so this one didn't surprise me much.

I did want to point out to all the Brits that have contributed to this excellent thread that you are lucky that you're Brits and that this event took place in Britain. Had it occurred in the USA and/or had Yanks other than RR contributed to it, the third post in the thread would have been Jack complaining that it was political and that we'd all have to be nice and, then, three "what are you talking about" posts later, it would have been locked. We'd have had six posts instead of six pages of posts. After all, everything in this thread that isn't political is racial, but it's grown ups talking -- and grownups moderating -- and so things continue apace. It's just the sort of conversation I'd expect to hear in a decent pub of a lunchtime.

Glad to see free speech still lives on FofF. Well done all commentators.

Quote from: The Doctor on August 08, 2011, 05:54:11 PM

I've always wondered why the Police don't just do something about these folks - hit 'em with a baton round or something.  They're all tooled up for the job, so why not? 

Sadly, because the odd rogue policeman loses it and beats up on the wrong person - as in the poor sad drunk that was killed in central London recently. We're paying for the backlash that caused right now.

Its going to be a very long night in London, what we need is a bloody heavy down pour to clear the streets as we know the yoof will not want their trendy trainers wet.

..as if they give a monkey's about their trainers getting a soaking.  They've all got about 10 spare pairs from the other night

Your right of course, forget my last post and just stay clear of all the usual areas.

Quote from: MJG on August 08, 2011, 06:51:30 PM
Its going to be a very long night in London, what we need is a bloody heavy down pour to clear the streets as we know the yoof will not want their trendy trainers wet.

Or even better Police armed with Rubber Bullets and water canons to disperse these bunch of no good wasters :028:

Also I've noticed that they haven't burnt down any Social security offices, I wonder why  094.gif

Quote from: SP3 on August 08, 2011, 06:09:09 PM

Quote from: The Doctor on August 08, 2011, 05:54:11 PM

I've always wondered why the Police don't just do something about these folks - hit 'em with a baton round or something.  They're all tooled up for the job, so why not? 

Sadly, because the odd rogue policeman loses it and beats up on the wrong person - as in the poor sad drunk that was killed in central London recently. We're paying for the backlash that caused right now.

It's more likely because when a copper loses it and deals out the justice that we all want to see, then he is prosecuted to the fullest extent to both make an example of and to appease the very 'community leaders' that orchestrate this type of violence. Conversely, when a looter/rioter is caught, he is treated with kid gloves, the local police goes to liaise with those same community leaders, and the end result is the miscreant is released because it is in the 'interests of the public' (e.g. because those community leaders threatened further riots should the 'misguided poverty-stricken' yoof be actually treated as the rest of the population wants him/her to be).

There is an old joke in the service about stress: "Stress occurs when the brain overrides the body's desire to beat the living poop out of somebody that thoroughly deserves it" - too true, too many times in my experience.

Apparently, there are rumours round here that PC World and Curry's have been attacked on the Purley Way

Quote from: JBH on August 08, 2011, 07:07:08 PM

Quote from: MJG on August 08, 2011, 06:51:30 PM
Its going to be a very long night in London, what we need is a bloody heavy down pour to clear the streets as we know the yoof will not want their trendy trainers wet.

Or even better Police armed with Rubber Bullets and water canons to disperse these bunch of no good wasters :028:

Also I've noticed that they haven't burnt down any Social security offices, I wonder why  094.gif

I used to work at the post office in brixton and when the riots went off in the past the joke was that we were in the safest place as they would never burn it down as how would they cash their green giro's.

Just heard they are evidently sending in the special forces from Stoke and Wolves.  :dead horse:

Quote from: RidgeRider on August 08, 2011, 05:32:55 PM

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 08, 2011, 05:21:25 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 05:17:43 PM
Strange that in places like Haiti and New Orleans looting was rife, but none in Japan.

Not that strange! Haiti and New Orleans are both desperately poor, Japan is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.

I confidently predict that rioting in South Kensington will be limited for the same reasons.

United States is one of the wealthiest nations as well but we have had issues in places like Los Angeles and other cities. We had some issues up on Milwaukee recently with targeted racial violence by young thugs.

Japan has issues with poverty as well, especially amongst the age groups that most likely take to looting and violence, but you don't see looting there. I'm not trying to equate Japan's poverty issues with say Haiti's but there are places throughout the globe that are more impoverished than London where we just don't see things like what we are seeing in London right now. Poverty is certainly part of the problem but there are others issues at hand as well.

A small "but" re: Japan.
A month ago I saw my relatives who live in the Russian far East. Now, 90% of cars over there are Japanese (even though they are RH-drive and Russia is LH-drive). They bought a car recently and one of the guarantees that you pay a bit extra for now is that they're not "salvaged" from the Fukushima area. Whilst Russians... errr... "entrepreneurship" goes far, they are not working that on their own w/o local help. Whilst this is not quite "running around the streets smashing up shops" poverty-stricken type of looting, it certainly certainly qualifies as somewhat illegal.

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 07:16:46 PM
Apparently, there are rumours round here that PC World and Curry's have been attacked on the Purley Way

Urrrgh... used to play football down Purley Way. Not very nice down there.

Cant we bring back the SPG ? :028:

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 08:04:49 PM
Cant we bring back the SPG ? :028:

If only Freddy, that would sort out the little b'stards, they had me in 1977 just for looking menacing and they were very persausive if you know what I mean  065.gif

Kicking off in Birmingham now.

"Panic in the streets of London,panic in the streets of Birmingham"

Quote from: HatterDon on August 08, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
I've been reading this thread without comment since it started. It's not like riots are unknown in London, so this one didn't surprise me much.

I did want to point out to all the Brits that have contributed to this excellent thread that you are lucky that you're Brits and that this event took place in Britain. Had it occurred in the USA and/or had Yanks other than RR contributed to it, the third post in the thread would have been Jack complaining that it was political and that we'd all have to be nice and, then, three "what are you talking about" posts later, it would have been locked. We'd have had six posts instead of six pages of posts. After all, everything in this thread that isn't political is racial, but it's grown ups talking -- and grownups moderating -- and so things continue apace. It's just the sort of conversation I'd expect to hear in a decent pub of a lunchtime.

Glad to see free speech still lives on FofF. Well done all commentators.

Reason is Don is it hasn't been politicized and when it was it was removed by the poster. I've rarely seen that where you are concerned, even though you deny it,  because you are a political animal. You can't help yourself. So you can continue to rant about my moderating decisions and I will continue to pay close attention to your posts. Know that you are not the only poster whose been reprimanded for political posts but you seem to whine about it the most.

Simon Hughes has just said that he believes that Anarchists are oranising these events. Surely the Police know some those idiots and would bring them in.

rioters in shep bush have robbed the qpr trophy room, police are looking for two men carring a blue and white carpet.

Quote from: RidgeRider on August 08, 2011, 08:26:24 PM

Quote from: HatterDon on August 08, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
I've been reading this thread without comment since it started. It's not like riots are unknown in London, so this one didn't surprise me much.

I did want to point out to all the Brits that have contributed to this excellent thread that you are lucky that you're Brits and that this event took place in Britain. Had it occurred in the USA and/or had Yanks other than RR contributed to it, the third post in the thread would have been Jack complaining that it was political and that we'd all have to be nice and, then, three "what are you talking about" posts later, it would have been locked. We'd have had six posts instead of six pages of posts. After all, everything in this thread that isn't political is racial, but it's grown ups talking -- and grownups moderating -- and so things continue apace. It's just the sort of conversation I'd expect to hear in a decent pub of a lunchtime.

Glad to see free speech still lives on FofF. Well done all commentators.

Reason is Don is it hasn't been politicized and when it was it was removed by the poster. I've rarely seen that where you are concerned, even though you deny it,  because you are a political animal. You can't help yourself. So you can continue to rant about my moderating decisions and I will continue to pay close attention to your posts. Know that you are not the only poster whose been reprimanded for political posts but you seem to whine about it the most.

Can safely say i've recieved a few reprimands via Pm (i'm sure that will surprise no one  :dft012:) and to be honest i'd agree with the mods on about 99% of my bollockings.

Quickly pass a new law to let the Para's have a freehand to deal with them, it will be finished very quickly  :028:

My mate just cycled from Central London to Blackheath:
one burnt out bus, gangs of teenagers hooding up as they walked into Peckham/New Cross/Lewisham, many smashed shops, people brazenly looting.
Lee High Road - petrol station smashed in, bins all over the road, Wetherspoons ransacked, all shops shut.

kaiser chiefs have released a new single " i told you "

Quote from: TheDon on August 08, 2011, 08:59:27 PM
kaiser chiefs have released a new single " i told you "

:011:  :011: I'm going to knick that and text it on.

hows it going in ealing? anyone from the clayponds rioting yet?

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: TheDon on August 08, 2011, 08:59:27 PM
kaiser chiefs have released a new single " i told you "

:011:  :011: I'm going to knick that and text it on.

Just got one i cant post on here  :dft012:

Massive fires in Croydon - shocking images:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6090/6023350860_ced0188b75_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6087/6022795821_1412791d19_b.jpg)

For those of you who know Croydon,, Reeves Corner is well alight. Reeves Furniture stoe is deystroyed. More lost jobs.

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 09:17:09 PM
For those of you who know Croydon,, Reeves Corner is well alight. Reeves Furniture stoe is deystroyed. More lost jobs.

Lost jobs and a huge risk to life.

Quote from: zzamora on August 08, 2011, 09:07:02 PM
hows it going in ealing? anyone from the clayponds rioting yet?

The yoot on my estate are very conspicuoas by their absence, much more quiet than usual in Northolt  :54:

That fire at reeves has been going for about an hour now (watching on sky)and not a fire engine in sight.........there is a lot of residential property around there god help them.

Lavender Hill and Clapham Junction hit now. This is definately co-ordinated.

I just hope everybody stays safe people

For those of us that want to see water cannon, Deputy Mayor has just said that we do not have them. The nearest are in Northern Ireland.

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 09:54:30 PM
For those of us that want to see water cannon, Deputy Mayor has just said that we do not have them. The nearest are in Northern Ireland.

As i said, send in the Para's and give them a free reign to crack heads, i doubt you get the silly dickheads doing the internatinal hand signal a few feet in front of their faces and giving it the come on then.

Let's burn down large stores where they employ large numbers of local staff, mostly young people......idiots.

Apparently the Curry's in Fulham near Wandsworth Bridge is being hit...  Can we direct them towards our Michael Jackson Statue?  Some good has to come of all this

 :011:

Quote from: BR on August 08, 2011, 10:13:15 PM
Apparently the Curry's in Fulham near Wandsworth Bridge is being hit...  Can we direct them towards our Michael Jackson Statue?  Some good has to come of all this

:011:

I have got to say that I am deeply appalled and saddened by all of this.

Someone is going to lose their life soon.

Shame there isn't a brain cell going amonst any of the looters.

Good thing the prime minister and the mayor of London are here.

oh....

In the "old days"....there would have been the reading of the Riot Act, a final warning to leave the streets and then.....

....but of course nowadays everyone has got rights....even the right to terrorise neighbourhoods, deal drugs, riot in favour of those who have been caught dealing drugs (allegedly of course..).......

Of course this is a crap country. Ask anyone with a shopping trolley full of looted televisions and they'll tell you they have been hard done by because the social security they receive isn't enough to keep them in the necessities of modern life....cigarettes, trainers...dvd's etc.

Perhaps it's time to go buy a hoodie, scarf and just go join them.

Quote from: cutbushcitylimits on August 08, 2011, 09:34:05 PM
That fire at reeves has been going for about an hour now (watching on sky)and not a fire engine in sight.........there is a lot of residential property around there god help them.

Two Reeves brothers just been on the news, the business has been in the family for five generations, and 20 staff now out of work. Very sad.

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 09:54:30 PM
For those of us that want to see water cannon, Deputy Mayor has just said that we do not have them. The nearest are in Northern Ireland.

That was already said a day or two ago. Good to see that nothing's been done about it yet.

This is going to spread throughout Chelsea and Fulham and probably over the bridge towards Putney.

surprised you ain't there with a toasting fork and a pound of walls Fredster lol.

Quote from: Blingo on August 08, 2011, 10:26:15 PM
surprised you ain't there with a toasting fork and a pound of walls Fredster lol.

I've just looted the local butchers  :dft012:

s'pose you put a steak through his window.

The tweet read: 'Everyone up and roll to Tottenham f*** the 5-0. I hope 1 dead tonight.'

Another Twitter user, 'Sonny Twag', tweeted: 'Want to roll Tottenham to loot. I do want a free TV. Who wudn't.'

Yet another, 'DannyWonders', tweeted: 'Jewellry Shop In Green Lanes Getting Robbed Right In Front Of My Eyes<looool get involved!'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023667/London-riots-Looter-posts-photo-booty-Facebook.html#ixzz1UTXxDxbQ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023667/London-riots-Looter-posts-photo-booty-Facebook.html#ixzz1UTXxDxbQ)


Quite shocking, really.

Quote from: zzamora on August 08, 2011, 09:07:02 PM
hows it going in ealing? anyone from the clayponds rioting yet?

Aren't you a youth from Ealing yourself? My 16 year old tells me it kicked off in Ealing Broadway a couple of hours ago, which would explain Fred's neigbours going missing. Having said that, nothing on the news about it.

Where I live in Greenford there's nowt but charity shops and kebab shops, so I can't see there being much trouble here.

Trains not stopping at Ealing Broadway. 

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 08:32:48 PM
Simon Hughes has just said that he believes that Anarchists are oranising these events. Surely the Police know some those idiots and would bring them in.

Somebody please explain to Simon Hughes what an anarchist is and that anarchists organizing anything is an oxymoron.

These are just thieving scum and little fools ripping up the place and using the fact that we have about 1 policeman per square mile left. So now they are going to have to spend more than the equivalent of hiring more police (and keeping the SPG) to rebuild this nonsense.

Why don't we just use some of the lads getting trained for Afghanistan do some warmups and get a good run-out before they are shipped out?

 :54:

Better stay at home, my London friends! 092.gif


http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH (http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH)

Quote from: finnster01 on August 08, 2011, 11:05:18 PM

Quote from: Peabody on August 08, 2011, 08:32:48 PM
Simon Hughes has just said that he believes that Anarchists are oranising these events. Surely the Police know some those idiots and would bring them in.

Somebody please explain to Simon Hughes what an anarchist is and that anarchists organizing anything is an oxymoron.

These are just thieving scum and little fools ripping up the place and using the fact that we have about 1 policeman per square mile left. So now they are going to have to spend more than the equivalent of hiring more police (and keeping the SPG) to rebuild this nonsense.

Why don't we just use some of the lads getting trained for Afghanistan do some warmups and get a good run-out before they are shipped out?

I'm sure they'd absolutely love the warm up as well Finny .

Quote from: Brede Butter Pudding on August 08, 2011, 11:04:15 PM
Trains not stopping at Ealing Broadway. 

Should stop all  transport tonight.

A shooting in Croydon... Non-fatal, but a shooting nonetheless.

Yep Ealing has kicked off, not hard to work out where the teenagers from my estate are.

I doubt the Villa game will be on now. I am sure they want to avoid crowds.

Quote from: finnster01 on August 08, 2011, 11:32:08 PM
I doubt the Villa game will be on now. I am sure they want to avoid crowds.

If it continues i doubt any games in the capital will be on, they just wont be able to supply any coppers. Could be nationwide by then, surprised places like Bristol,Luton, Bradford and Nottingham haven't erupted yet.

West Ham's Carling Cup match v Aldershot is postponed due to the riots.

Quote from: finnster01 on August 08, 2011, 11:32:08 PM
I doubt the Villa game will be on now. I am sure they want to avoid crowds.

I can't see that happening to be honest. Are there really any 'disaffected youth' left in Fulham and Putney nowadays? It's all city dealers, estate agents and doctors now. Shepherds Bush on the other hand......

England game must be off as well surely.
cant see any games on this w/e ...in london anyway.

Has Sutton been hit yet??

i hear Colliers wood and tooting has.

Quote from: Scrumpy on August 08, 2011, 11:38:00 PM

Quote from: finnster01 on August 08, 2011, 11:32:08 PM
I doubt the Villa game will be on now. I am sure they want to avoid crowds.

I can't see that happening to be honest. Are there really any 'disaffected youth' left in Fulham and Putney nowadays? It's all city dealers, estate agents and doctors now. Shepherds Bush on the other hand......

Loads of shitty council estates in Fulham Scrumpy, the area around the Cottage is nice, but the Northend rd is full of council estates just off it.

Quote from: cutbushcitylimits on August 08, 2011, 11:38:36 PM
England game must be off as well surely.
cant see any games on this w/e ...in london anyway.

Has Sutton been hit yet??

i hear Colliers wood and tooting has.

All kicking off here in small village outside Basingstoke!!! At least 5 youths gathered at bus stop have been told to 'move along' by the local Community Officer (we're not big enough to have real police here). Rupert swore at the nice young lady and has been frog-marched to his parents house. Some one else spat in the gutter. I tell you, I have never seen the like.... fp.gif  

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 11:43:46 PM

Quote from: Scrumpy on August 08, 2011, 11:38:00 PM

Quote from: finnster01 on August 08, 2011, 11:32:08 PM
I doubt the Villa game will be on now. I am sure they want to avoid crowds.

I can't see that happening to be honest. Are there really any 'disaffected youth' left in Fulham and Putney nowadays? It's all city dealers, estate agents and doctors now. Shepherds Bush on the other hand......

Loads of shitty council estates in Fulham Scrumpy, the area around the Cottage is nice, but the Northend rd is full of council estates just off it.

Fair enough. I don't park in those streets. Do they ever get to Fulham matches then? Because it's mostly Hoooray Henrys that I see in H5.

It sort of kicked off a bit in clem attlee so I've heard a few fires but the old bill ran em!!! I haven't heard anything else in fulham

Are you watching and listening to this :?????????
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089)

.......this reporter should be strung up ..
He is talking to the owner of the furniture shop in Croydon
he is the 5th generation of owners
15 people worked there ............................15 families with  a bleak future
and the BBC Reporter/presenter said to the owner : ''You sound bitter''

It doesn't sound that it will be long before the army needs to get involved in this kind of situation.

Quote from: ron on August 09, 2011, 12:08:16 AM
It doesn't sound that it will be long before the army needs to get involved in this kind of situation.

Agreed. Chalk Farm and Ealing both having problems now. Debenhams in Clapham was being ranscaked for 90 minutes before the police were able to get there. Likelihood of arrest is minimal, so I think the youth are taking their chance now.

I love the strap line on thge BBC  website..that "Watching these live scenes from the BBC requires a TV licence". ....Similarly, you could say to the looters; "Removing those objects from Debenhams requires a valid credit card"

Quote from: KCat on August 08, 2011, 11:51:48 PM
Are you watching and listening to this :?????????
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089)

.......this reporter should be strung up ..
He is talking to the owner of the furniture shop in Croydon
he is the 5th generation of owners
15 people worked there ............................15 families with  a bleak future
and the BBC Reporter/presenter said to the owner : ''You sound bitter''

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675)

Is that the same? This one is available for all non-UK users also.

Just when you think it couldnt get any worse..........i just read they are remaking Dirty Dancing.

Quote from: cutbushcitylimits on August 09, 2011, 12:21:44 AM
Just when you think it couldnt get any worse..........

Good point.

http://twitpic.com/635hje (http://twitpic.com/635hje)

Just got back to Shepherds Bush. Quiet. The driver said he's heard from his brother in Ealing that there was quite a bit of trouble. Almost surprised that nothing's gone off in the estates around White City.

Liverpool just started

http://yfrog.com/user/damiontucker23/profile (http://yfrog.com/user/damiontucker23/profile)

(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg614/scaled.php?tn=0&server=614&filename=51802187.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)

Houses in Ealing being broken into. People wake up to find thugs in their bedroom. Victims are hard working people of all colours and all political persuasion. These thugs are kids who are acting big in the nice warm night. They have no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it. A kid has just stiolen a bag of rice and another some Imodium. These people are clueless.

Old lady terrorfied in her house, while people are gawping at the fires and the violence. Is the blanket news coverage actually making the kiddies go on?

Probably.

All London matches cancelled for Tuesday and Wednesday. That includes the international match at Wembley.



Clapham Junc violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqj1N9qeWXI#ws)

That has to be the hell on earth.

The riots spreading across London have reached Hammersmith and Fulham, according to social networkers.

Several entries on Twitter described violence in Wandsworth Bridge Road, Fulham, with reports that a bike was thrown under a bus as vandals and looters targeted Curry's in the business park by Wandsworth Bridge.

Amid a faint smell of burning in the area, there were also reports of disorder in North End Road, although there was no trace of violence in and around there at 22:30 BST.

At 23:45 BST, riot police were said to be lining up on North End Road as hooded youths were seen heading there on bikes amid further twitter reports of looting there.

In other reports, a taxi full of women were robbed by looters in Fulham.

Businesses in and around the area shut their doors early, as fear spread. They included Hache restaurant in Fulham Road, a 24 hour shop in Fulham Broadway and The Rylston pub in Lillie Road.

MP Greg Hands condemned the violence and called for stricter policing. He said: "For 14 years I have been saying London needs much tougher, New York-style policing. Now would be a good time to start."



Read More http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-and-hammersmith-news/local-fulham-and-hammersmith-news/2011/08/08/riot-mayhem-spreads-to-fulham-as-police-line-north-end-road-82029-29202289/#ixzz1UUClHzwE (http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-and-hammersmith-news/local-fulham-and-hammersmith-news/2011/08/08/riot-mayhem-spreads-to-fulham-as-police-line-north-end-road-82029-29202289/#ixzz1UUClHzwE)

Well i guess im going to have to becareful going home this morning finish at 06:30  have to go through wandsworth to get to battersea .Doddington and Rollo estate is still quite.Misses has asked me if it was ok to put the chain on the door ! Bless her it seems all the roads around the estate have been closed due to looting and fires ."any one fancy a flat exchange ? "

Quote from: TheDaddy on August 09, 2011, 01:40:19 AM
Well i guess im going to have to becareful going home this morning finish at 06:30  have to go through wandsworth to get to battersea .Doddington and Rollo estate is still quite.Misses has asked me if it was ok to put the chain on the door ! Bless her it seems all the roads around the estate have been closed due to looting and fires ."any one fancy a flat exchange ? "

I really hope you and your family are - and will be -  safe tonight and tomorrow!!!  :dft002:

Quote from: Mr Fulham on August 09, 2011, 01:45:00 AM

Quote from: TheDaddy on August 09, 2011, 01:40:19 AM
Well i guess im going to have to becareful going home this morning finish at 06:30  have to go through wandsworth to get to battersea .Doddington and Rollo estate is still quite.Misses has asked me if it was ok to put the chain on the door ! Bless her it seems all the roads around the estate have been closed due to looting and fires ."any one fancy a flat exchange ? "

I really hope you and your family are - and will be -  safe tonight and tomorrow!!!  :dft002:

Same here. The time for joking is finished. It's time to be concerned about the safety of everyone concerned with this mess.

150 people causing problems in the centre of Bristol. Clashes with Police.

Goes without saying, stay safe and keep your heads down people.

i live in west ealing, its mad here,sorry mods but im f***ing terrified, i want action from the government, we cannot let such horrible people get away with this stuff.

Quote from: zzamora on August 09, 2011, 02:02:28 AM
i live in west ealing, its mad here,sorry mods but im f***ing terrified, i want action from the government, we cannot let such horrible people get away with this stuff.

keep your head down Zammo mate dont do anything silly .Been listening to lbc radio its all there reporting on .
afew have a go heros have ended up in hospital even people taking pictures on cameras and phones have been attacked.

KEEP SAFE MATE.

Quote from: zzamora on August 09, 2011, 02:02:28 AM
i live in west ealing, its mad here,sorry mods but im f***ing terrified, i want action from the government, we cannot let such horrible people get away with this stuff.

Stay at home and stay safe, mate!!! :016:

Quote from: TheDaddy on August 09, 2011, 02:08:00 AM

Quote from: zzamora on August 09, 2011, 02:02:28 AM
i live in west ealing, its mad here,sorry mods but im f***ing terrified, i want action from the government, we cannot let such horrible people get away with this stuff.

keep your head down Zammo mate dont do anything silly .Been listening to lbc radio its all there reporting on .
afew have a go heros have ended up in hospital even people taking pictures on cameras and phones have been attacked.

KEEP SAFE MATE.

+1

Quote from: TheDaddy on August 09, 2011, 02:08:00 AM

Quote from: zzamora on August 09, 2011, 02:02:28 AM
i live in west ealing, its mad here,sorry mods but im f***ing terrified, i want action from the government, we cannot let such horrible people get away with this stuff.

keep your head down Zammo mate dont do anything silly .Been listening to lbc radio its all there reporting on .
afew have a go heros have ended up in hospital even people taking pictures on cameras and phones have been attacked.

KEEP SAFE MATE.

thanks, im inside my room, door slammed right shut, got a table agaisnt the front door can hear mayhem outside. im not gonna be sleeping tonight

http://twitpic.com/635ffl (http://twitpic.com/635ffl)


Dalston's turkish community is doing a magnificent job out there!! They are chasing away the rioters.

oh my god, just watched a man being stabbed out the back of my house! omg, its getting ridiculous here, cant even seen one bloody police officer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4pcbiO4flY&feature=player_embedded#at=63 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4pcbiO4flY&feature=player_embedded#at=63)


Stay inside your room, zzamora, please.... :026:



http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150333636850851#&comments (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150333636850851#&comments)
oh those :014: :014: :014: :014: :014:
I'm getting close to vomit....what's wrong with the people????

Quote from: Mr Fulham on August 09, 2011, 02:19:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4pcbiO4flY&feature=player_embedded#at=63 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4pcbiO4flY&feature=player_embedded#at=63)


Stay inside your room, zzamora, please.... :026:

im not bloody moving! riot police arrived, two of them just floored one man running, then gave him a good beating. felt extremly satisfying to watch

Zammo major fire at budgens in the broadway and belive it or not LFB have reported that they are running out of appliances to many fires.

Quote from: TheDaddy on August 09, 2011, 02:23:05 AM
Zammo major fire at budgens in the broadway and belive it or not LFB have reported that they are running out of appliances to many fires.

seen it, can see the smoke from here. used to like that shop-shame. riot police now in full force, youths on the train tracks now.

20 stores gutted in clapham jct just gets worse just hope the parents of these loving idiots do the right thing and drop them off at the local police station .If my sons were involved which the aint i would dam well drop them off and tell the old bill to keep them ......

A Sainsbury supermarket depot in Essex has reportedly been engulfed by fire.

A Sony Centre in Enfield blazing


Birmingham unrest - Hundreds of youths gathered and a number arrested.

Stay safe

Is it just hoodlums running rampant, or are there others with a purported "reason" like college tuiton or something of that nature?

I hope you lot stay safe.

A Guardian reporter said some of the rioters are as young as - believe it or not - eight (!!!) years. fp.gif

oh my god, some youths smashed a car took a phone from the car and then smashed the phone. they just dont give a *sorry mods* S*** do they?

This is no general attack on the system or because they feel disenfranchised. This is the breakown of some youth in some areas. Some kids broke into a warehouse to steal electrical goods, were carrying stuff away on their BMX bikes. Dropping most of it. Then one threw a petrol bomb, while others were still knicking stuff. No cry for help as some would have us believe. But a cry for greed.

239 people (young people) arrested in London so far.

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 12:37:27 AM
Houses in Ealing being broken into. People wake up to find thugs in their bedroom. Victims are hard working people of all colours and all political persuasion. These thugs are kids who are acting big in the nice warm night. They have no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it. A kid has just stiolen a bag of rice and another some Imodium. These people are clueless.

Old lady terrorfied in her house, while people are gawping at the fires and the violence. Is the blanket news coverage actually making the kiddies go on?

I wish England had a 2nd Amendment like the US. :014:

Jesus how many fires  ? LFB have told people in the wimbledon area to expect low pressure from there taps tomorrow due to the amount of water used to tackle the fires in london ..

When you see rioting and looting on television you may look on with some degree of horror and repulsion but normally you do with some detachment if only because it is happening in unfamiliar territory.
But this is happening in the streets where I was born, bred, played, loved, lost, shopped and lived.
I see my old stomping ground of Clapham Junction almost in ruins, the shops where as a baggy arsed kid still suffering from the ravages of War I would gaze longingly through the windows at goods we could never afford. I see where we pressed our noses against a TV Rental shop window to watch the Arsenal versus Liverpool Cup Final in 1950 in flickering black and white images.
But as much as we may covet what we couldn't afford our looting would go no further than pinching a few sweets from Woolworths and if you got caught, the local walloper would give you a clip round the ear with the full approval of your old man who would follow through with a kick up the arse.
As Lionel Bart once averred, "Fings ain't wot they used to be" and at the risk of being thought a curmudgeonly old bastard, I am sorry but they were really the good old days.
Stay safe my fellow Londoners and let us hope that socially and politically something emerges from this mess that will have an everlasting good.

This is just so wrong. Time to bring in the troops and give those yobs a wallacking but what do the chief of police: Telling the parents to keep their kids at home... What a brilliant idea  :doh:

Like that's going to solve anything. The parents have lost their control of those kids already. In fact a long time ago. They created the monsters because they didn't give a rats arse about raising proper kids. The only thing that will work now is a good old beating up. Arresting them is a further waste of money. It is behind the shed time for the lot.

Its 4:45 in the morning and there still out rioting...

Mr Finn, I agree with you "this is so wrong" howver not with your solution. The reality is, the politicians, bankers, company ceo's etc etc have been raping regular folk for years now. This is clearly being orchestrated by some (probably) lefties.
The people getting involved share a common anger towards the society that has been created by the aforementioned. Can you blame them?
You have/had your own company. I run my owm business but do the kids today have the same opportunity?? I think not.
The reason? We all have our own opinion. I will keep mine to myself so we do not get locked. Let's just say it is about the failure of capitalism as we know it. The rich get richer etc etc.

WAR ZONE AREAS : Croyden,Ealing and Clapham roads still closed as the areas are just a mess .Zamo stay at home mate me it looks like a long walk home no night buses ran last night and it looks like regular buses may be suspended until futher notice....

Tramlink will be suspended today due to fires on the track left by the rioters will update when can as yet all underground lines working apart from enginnering clousers on the circle and distict .some stations will be shut Ealing broadway and ealing common being just two so far...

Buses running however ealing broadway services distrupted.Ealing Broadway station closed tramlink part suspended.

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 04:54:30 AM
Mr Finn, I agree with you "this is so wrong" howver not with your solution. The reality is, the politicians, bankers, company ceo's etc etc have been raping regular folk for years now. This is clearly being orchestrated by some (probably) lefties.
The people getting involved share a common anger towards the society that has been created by the aforementioned. Can you blame them?
You have/had your own company. I run my owm business but do the kids today have the same opportunity?? I think not.
The reason? We all have our own opinion. I will keep mine to myself so we do not get locked. Let's just say it is about the failure of capitalism as we know it. The rich get richer etc etc.

Mr Jarv,
I understand your point. They people/institutions you mention clearly have to share the blame.

But at the bottom is the parents, or rather parent these days I should say. I lost my dad when I was young but old enough to understand it. My mum worked two jobs to make ends meet which sometimes she couldn't. We didn't have much. My mum sent me to my uncle to grow up and he was a hard but fair man. He was also Fulham through and through. Bottom line despite all the odds stacked against me, I grew up to become a fairly (arguably by some) normal man. My point is that it is a complete cop out to full-on blame society and burn down your neighbourhood to make matters worse. I was an angry young man too once, but rather to take it out on everybody and their granny, I joined the navy who made me grow up well and proper and taught me about consequences and responsibility.

They should re-introduce the draft and send these yobs to boot-camp if nothing else. Burning down the place your neighbour works at isn't going to help anyone now is it?

Nobody and I mean nobody could have been brought up in such dire poverty and disadvantage as I was.
I don't know why fate decreed that I should have a modicum of talent that took me out of the slums to bask in the advertising profession culminating in being elected to the Hall of Fame or what creativity imbued me to write for a living, but what I do know, Mr Finn, is that I have been exceedingly lucky.
Not everyone has been blessed with the intellect and drive that you and I possess – life just doesn't work that way, and may I say that my parents had nothing to do with it.
They were without doubt two of the most negative people on this planet. I was a war time baby and unwanted but I still had the necessary guile to escape my environment and them. As I said, I was lucky.
For whatever reason the people who live in these tower blocks immersed in drugs and poverty do not have the necessary wherewithal to do what we did. Furthermore they feel disenfranchised and racially abused with no hope of a future and although we cannot condone what they have done, as a society we need to do more to ensure that they have no excuse to do it again in the future.

The picture on the front of the Times this morning of a woman jumping out of a burning building in to the arms of a waiting policemen says it all really.

It's a miracle that nobody has been killed yet.

If the rioters and looters had a brain cell to share between them I would hope that they would see the footage of what is going on and feel ASHAMED.



RIP, common sense.

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 04:54:30 AM
Mr Finn, I agree with you "this is so wrong" howver not with your solution. The reality is, the politicians, bankers, company ceo's etc etc have been raping regular folk for years now. This is clearly being orchestrated by some (probably) lefties.
The people getting involved share a common anger towards the society that has been created by the aforementioned. Can you blame them?
You have/had your own company. I run my owm business but do the kids today have the same opportunity?? I think not.
The reason? We all have our own opinion. I will keep mine to myself so we do not get locked. Let's just say it is about the failure of capitalism as we know it. The rich get richer etc etc.

What a load of rubbish. Firstly the 50% tax rate brings in less tax than the 40% rate did. How many city firms have moved to Geneva taking jobs with them to get away from our higher taxes? Tens of thousands of jobs have gone. Let's go out and burn more shops/businesses and lose some more jobs. Crazy.

As for whether it's possible to start a business these days with next to nothing, it is. I did it and the same support structure is in place today. The kids today are too busy playing with their Playstations and twittering to get off their arses.

Why not get rid of all the city dealers and bankers? Because the loss to the Treasury and the public purse would be catastrophic.

God save me from the financially illiterate.

Really cannot believe what Jarv has just said. This is not about poverty or injustice, it is about violence and looting. I hate apologists spouting a political message as an excuse and that is exactly what is happening. These so called impoverished people have designer gear on, 50" TVA at home and far more comforts at home than the 40 year old plus generation ever had.

Quote from: Motspur on August 09, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Really cannot believe what Jarvis has just said. This is not about poverty or injustice, it is about violence and looting. I hate apologists spouting a political message as an excuse and that is exactly what is happening. These so called impoverished people have designer gear on, 50" TVA at home and far more comforts at home than the 40 year old plus generation ever had.

+ 1

Enough is Enough, old people frightened to leave their houses, this is just not on.

Time for a Curfew to be inforced and zero tollerance to be introduced, bring in the Army with a shoot to kill policy, these peices of worthless shite don't deserve to breathe fresh air :028:

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 08:10:26 AM
Enough is Enough, old people frightened to leave their houses, this is just not on.

Time for a Curfew to be inforced and zero tollerance to be introduced, bring in the Army with a shoot to kill policy, these peices of worthless shite don't deserve to breathe fresh air :028:

Amen, brother man.
And arm the shop owners too.

Well I agree with Corked Hat.

I'm sure we're all disgusted by the violence and want the government to put a stop to it with whatever measures they can. Water cannon, cracking heads - whatever. It must stop.

That doesn't though detract from the urgent need to have a fairer society, better educated with ALL youngsters feeling included. That's where investment and tax money must go. And it's not a quick fix but what we're seeing is the sort of society that's being created when large numbers of young people are full of rage and alienation and feel they have nothing to lose.

To say that these looters are voicing a political opinion is, I'm afraid, laughable.

These people are thieving scum who see these events as the perfect opportunity to loot and steal from hard working people who never deserved such treatment. These scumbags should have absolutely no sympathy.

"Using BlackBerry handsets – the smartphone of choice for the majority (37%) of British teens, according to last week's Ofcom study – BBM allows users to send one-to-many messages to their network of contacts, who are connected by "BBM PINs". For many teens armed with a BlackBerry, BBM has replaced text messaging because it is free, instant and more part of a much larger community than regular SMS.

And unlike Twitter or Facebook, many BBM messages are untraceable by the authorities (which is why, in large part, BBM is so favoured by Emirati teens to spread illicit gossip about officialdom).

One BBM broadcast sent on Sunday, which has been shown to the Guardian by multiple sources, calls on "everyone from all sides of London" to vandalise shops on Oxford street.

It said: "Everyone from all sides of London meet up at the heart of London (central) OXFORD CIRCUS!!, Bare SHOPS are gonna get smashed up so come get some (free stuff!!!) love the feds we will send them back with OUR riot! >:O Dead the ends and colour war for now so if you see a brother... SALUT! if you see a fed... SHOOT!"

Another sent shortly before the outbreak of violence in Enfield on Sunday afternoon reads: "Everyone in edmonton enfield wood green everywhere in north link up at enfield town station at 4 o clock sharp!".

Yes, these yoofs are under such repression.  Don't make me vomit.

And now for something completely different:
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
King Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?

Oppressed masses my ar*e.

Bandwagoning kids after a free pair of Nikes and an adrenalin rush.

Greenford, as I said earlier, has sod all worth nicking, except for the jewellers at the bottom of the Broadway. Guess which one shop is surrounded by police tape this morning.

Zzamo - keep your head down and your door shut mate - if there's any small consolation it may be that tonight will probably be quiet in West Ealing, after all it's hard to burn rubble.

This is one of those days when I wished I still lived in Colchester. Home to the Paras. Good luck hoodies...

Hey Mr Jarv sir, just read your comments again and I think I see where you're coming from. Maybe these under priveledged gentlemen all want to start their own businesses but can't raise any capital from the nasty bankers. So they loot, sell the TVs etc and provide the funding that way? Hmmm.

As for your other comments: I am reminded of a delegate to the Trades Union Conference a few years agp who stood up and demanded that nobody gets paid less than the national average pay. Most of his colleagues roared their approval but a few had the gumption to look embarrassed. If you need that to be explained let me know.

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 09, 2011, 08:39:18 AM
Well I agree with Corked Hat.

I'm sure we're all disgusted by the violence and want the government to put a stop to it with whatever measures they can. Water cannon, cracking heads - whatever. It must stop.

That doesn't though detract from the urgent need to have a fairer society, better educated with ALL youngsters feeling included. That's where investment and tax money must go. And it's not a quick fix but what we're seeing is the sort of society that's being created when large numbers of young people are full of rage and alienation and feel they have nothing to lose.

So your'e saying that all of trouble this is not the fault of the wankers looting and setting fires around london, the reason these prats are full of rage is because they can't be arsed to take the jobs that are out there its because they think that  the country owe them a decent life style without them lifting a finger to help themeselves, decent kids from poor back-grounds get jobs and earn respect, the ones involved in this uprising are just lowlifes.

OK lets give them all a chance, enlist them to the armed forces under conscription and pay the a decent wage and see how they react to that.

Answer they wouldn't because they would have to contribute something to society  065.gif

  
 
This is where it started,  or at least a good number the yoffs on Saturday night were from here :  
 
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&cp=20&gs_id=1p&xhr=t&q=broadwater+farm+estate&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=973&bih=648&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&cp=20&gs_id=1p&xhr=t&q=broadwater+farm+estate&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=973&bih=648&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl)  
Have a look at the Broadwater Farm  with it new blood red fitted kitchens stainless steel splash backs and soft close doors.  
David lammi is a product of a one parent family born, raised and had his initial education in North Tottenham    
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lammy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lammy)  
 
Lammy aside,  I work with many people who would love the chance to have a flat in the Broadwater, because of it's location and the size of the rooms and the condition of the flats,  but that desire is tempered by the numbers of people living there who have no shame, control, and no respect for others. They take no responsibility as adults.    
The people I know do not have iPhones, nor the cars or jewelry, they work and their children go to school. They pay their taxes : PAYEE and C/Tax. They try to live the best they can and strive to give their children better opportunities.    
 
The others are prepared to lay in bed all day, in the home provided free, and take tax payers money, in return they are only required to pick up a pen ( provided free) to sign their name once every two week,
There was a job bus, it was driven to various location in Haringey. The idea was to help people write their CV and apply for jobs, provide money for travel and such. There was little interest.    
 
I would  say that the workers are the forgotten people, we need to stop making excuse for capable but lazy adults who do not take responsibility for there lives, stop repeating the same old tired sound bites.
Only then can resources go to those who are not capable and really need support      
   

JBH

I'm saying what I'm saying not what you say I'm saying.

And I'm staying out of this thread from now on.

I look forward to the day when sanity returns and this thread is consigned to history.

The causes are many and varied but nothing can justify the mindless behaviour of people destroying livelihoods and communities.

:035:

PLEASE Gentlefolk,

We muist be able to debate without fear of attack. By all means state an opinion and disagree with others. We know political party points are frowned upon by many. We also know how to contact ourselves in a civilised manner.

Tempers are running high because of what we see as an injustice. My list of people to blame are not always going to match others. The reasons are not always going to agree with others. EVERYBODY has a right to be heard. There is no point in annoying each other over and obove the usual levels.

The last thing we want is a thread to be locked for a stupid reason. Let's try to debate with a little calmness.

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 09, 2011, 08:39:18 AM
Well I agree with Corked Hat.

I'm sure we're all disgusted by the violence and want the government to put a stop to it with whatever measures they can. Water cannon, cracking heads - whatever. It must stop.

That doesn't though detract from the urgent need to have a fairer society, better educated with ALL youngsters feeling included. That's where investment and tax money must go. And it's not a quick fix but what we're seeing is the sort of society that's being created when large numbers of young people are full of rage and alienation and feel they have nothing to lose.

+1

But the mood in the country hasn't quite moved on from "I condemn this" yet. You condemn this? Of course - so what? Why did this happen?  While we're in pig-headed I condemn this mode, I'm oot too.

Good article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehillblog/2011/aug/08/things-i-believe-about-london-riots (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehillblog/2011/aug/08/things-i-believe-about-london-riots)

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 09, 2011, 10:08:31 AM
JBH

I'm saying what I'm saying not what you say I'm saying.

And I'm staying out of this thread from now on.

Me too Tony - it seems that some people can't differentiate between politics and social issues. In this current climate it is futile to argue the case - cue for someone to say that they are the same thing and my point is made

On the plus side, the England game is off so we can all watch a decent game instead.

Some crackers:

Oxford Utd v Cardiff (League Cup)
USA v Mexico
Germany v Brazil
Italy v Spain
France v Chile
Slovenia v Belgium

You forgot Latvia v Finland. That's a real cracker one there, watching Finland losing once again to a minnow, Paatelainen getting his five year contract terminated having been under it for four months, Litmanen getting injured and Kuqi signing for a Championship team.

I sincerely hope all FoF-members (and readers) are OK though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024001/Forced-strip-naked-street-Shocking-scenes-rioters-steal-clothes-rifle-bags-people-make-way-home.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024001/Forced-strip-naked-street-Shocking-scenes-rioters-steal-clothes-rifle-bags-people-make-way-home.html)

And Slovenia-Belgium is interesting to watch :)

Nice to see some have a social conscience, helping an injured person....before mugging him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065)

Disgusting.

Quote from: CorkedHat on August 09, 2011, 10:24:12 AM

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 09, 2011, 10:08:31 AM
JBH

I'm saying what I'm saying not what you say I'm saying.

And I'm staying out of this thread from now on.

Me too Tony - it seems that some people can't differentiate between politics and social issues. In this current climate it is futile to argue the case - cue for someone to say that they are the same thing and my point is made

Surprise, surprise, I am with CH and Tony on this and see no reason why this view should be despatched in the way it is. Of course these people (because thats what they are) should be condenmed and deserve everything that is coming to them but there are social issues that really must be addressed. I thought we had left those days behind were we just left groups of people with no hope and no future and before you say they have to help themselves, well that is exactly what they are doing. At our expense

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 04:54:30 AM
Mr Finn, I agree with you "this is so wrong" howver not with your solution. The reality is, the politicians, bankers, company ceo's etc etc have been raping regular folk for years now. This is clearly being orchestrated by some (probably) lefties.
The people getting involved share a common anger towards the society that has been created by the aforementioned. Can you blame them?
You have/had your own company. I run my owm business but do the kids today have the same opportunity?? I think not.
The reason? We all have our own opinion. I will keep mine to myself so we do not get locked. Let's just say it is about the failure of capitalism as we know it. The rich get richer etc etc.


So anarchists are "lefties" now are they?

OK lads and lasses, we are all appalled by the scenes, by the violence and the end product, but lets keep a sense of respect on this MB.

Disagree with the pov of fellow posters, but please do not attack their views. Whether you believe the solution to be social, political or whatever, keep it respectful.

Any posters unable to abide by this, please keep off the thread, your posts WILL be removed, and that would be a shame as many people make very good and valid points giving food for thought.

Right, I am really peed off now. There are those on this thread who clearly see all of this as a left wing plot. What aload of tosh. This not a plot by the left it is an opportunist event that has everything to do with greed and the need to have something that is someone elses. Iff anything, it is more akin to the Bankers and tax avoiders or the politicians that fiddled thier expenses. Yes, I vote mainly to the left because that is what I believe in. So please, lets lay of bashing those that have nothing to do with this. Rant over.

Simple answer? Rubber bullets. If they are happy to be out there ruining others lives then they are big enough to take the consequences. UK is far too soft. Great at using cameras but no good at enforcing law in situations like these because their hands are tied by red tape and human rights bull sht.

Quote from: Blingo on August 09, 2011, 11:46:58 AM
Simple answer? Rubber bullets. If they are happy to be out there ruining others lives then they are big enough to take the consequences. UK is far too soft. Great at using cameras but no good at enforcing law in situations like these because their hands are tied by red tape and human rights bull sht.

+1. But you cant blame the poor loveies can you, no job or future. Oh wait loads of Poles who can hardly speak a word of English manage to find work.

Quote from: Blingo on August 09, 2011, 11:46:58 AM
Simple answer? Rubber bullets. If they are happy to be out there ruining others lives then they are big enough to take the consequences. UK is far too soft. Great at using cameras but no good at enforcing law in situations like these because their hands are tied by red tape and human rights bull sht.

I completely agree, rubber bullets would certainly have an effect, although I wouldn't put it past the looting tossers to fire back with real bullets of their own.

Quote from: Peabody on August 09, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
Right, I am really peed off now. There are those on this thread who clearly see all of this as a left wing plot. What aload of tosh. This not a plot by the left it is an opportunist event that has everything to do with greed and the need to have something that is someone elses. Iff anything, it is more akin to the Bankers and tax avoiders or the politicians that fiddled thier expenses. Yes, I vote mainly to the left because that is what I believe in. So please, lets lay of bashing those that have nothing to do with this. Rant over.

It's not a left wing plot, nor is anything to do with MPs fiddling their expenses. The biggest culprit IMHO is the education system. Few of the kids leave school equipped for a job. If you've ever tried employing anyone under 30 you probably share that view. Teachers say the poor dears shouldn't be subjected to testing as it might stress them. We have a generation of kids that are mostly unemployable.

I'm afraid that this event has nothing to do with politics, as has been said, it's simply an opportunistic event that allows the lazy, violent and scumbag members of the community to make the most of a stretched police service. Most of the looters will head to wherever a police presence is lacking and will rob every shop and torch every car they can. They are not trying to make a political statement I can assure you... all they want is a new TV, pair of shoes and in some cases Tesco own-brand sacks of rice. It is a pathetic gathering of people who, even if jobs were handed to them on a plate, are either too lazy or too stupid/unintelligent to take them and make a living. Most of them will have left school with no qualifications and are now, rather than trying to better themselves and get somewhere in life, are wallowing in their own self-pity, scrounging off the state and in the mean-time mugging, looting and stealing from innocent, hard-working citizens who deserve none of what is coming to them. It is a sad case of these people getting a greater grip on society. I have heard the police chiefs in the past 48 hours pleading Londoners to help then restore London to its status as one of the safest big cities on the planet... Well I'm afraid that even before these riots, the very people looting and stealing are the same people that torment and ruin the lives of hard-working people day in, day out, across many parts of the capital. I hope that the law comes down hard on these low lives and they suffer in the same way that they are making their victims suffer.

Quote from: Brede Butter Pudding on August 09, 2011, 12:01:14 PM
I'm afraid that this event has nothing to do with politics, as has been said, it's simply an opportunistic event that allows the lazy, violent and scumbag members of the community to make the most of a stretched police service. Most of the looters will head to wherever a police presence is lacking and will rob every shop and torch every car they can. They are not trying to make a political statement I can assure you... all they want is a new TV, pair of shoes and in some cases Tesco own-brand sacks of rice. It is a pathetic gathering of people who, even if jobs were handed to them on a plate, are either too lazy or too stupid/unintelligent to take them and make a living. Most of them will have left school with no qualifications and are now, rather than trying to better themselves and get somewhere in life, are wallowing in their own self-pity, scrounging off the state and in the mean-time mugging, looting and stealing from innocent, hard-working citizens who deserve none of what is coming to them. It is a sad case of these people getting a greater grip on society. I have heard the police chiefs in the past 48 hours pleading Londoners to help then restore London to its status as one of the safest big cities on the planet... Well I'm afraid that even before these riots, the very people looting and stealing are the same people that torment and ruin the lives of hard-working people day in, day out, across many parts of the capital. I hope that the law comes down hard on these low lives and they suffer in the same way that they are making their victims suffer.

:54:

I blame it all on the death of Amy Winehouse, those poor drug dealers are really feeling the pinch.

Can we stop moaning about political posts and threads. Stop being so sensitive. If it has been said once it has been said a thousand times, THIS THREAD AND THIS SUBJECT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH LEFT OR RIGHT.

Whoever political team you support or hate. By the way I have been a trade unionist and am disgusted at what I have seen on both sides of the divide. Please accept debate and opinion.

Yes I am the worst offender, but if I can rein it in after being told off and beaten up by the left leaning political right of the centre law moderators. Than so can others. Read the posts and debate them. We will try and keep left and right and toffs and the rest out of it.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4596/lond1.png (http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4596/lond1.png)

That's the Sony distribution centre in Enfield, last night.



Send out the bloody army to sort that out.

I agree Brede, but what punishment for a juvenile for arson on a million pond building? community supervision order? prisons are full and if the Police go in hard everybody has their cameras ready in case they push someone over or give a slap, My son got a bottle smashed through the window of the Police minibus he was driving , attending a 150 mob attacking officers , there were 12 on board, what do you all suggest they do, shout "please go home it is late!!!" the powers to be decided that it was OK  for the Brixton splash to go ahead, ( mini carnival with attitude), the Brixton boys are taunted by the Tottenham boys for being pussys cos they haven't trashed their town so off it kicks, Teresa May wants 5000 less officers in the Met and to reduce their pay perhaps she should think again, sub machine seen on the streets of Streatham last night, not rumour, 1st hand account, any body want to be the brave cop charging down the road on his own?

heres a group to cheer everyone up!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Where-the-Hell-is-Ross-Kemp-When-You-Need-Him/203502106373615?skip_nax_wizard=true (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Where-the-Hell-is-Ross-Kemp-When-You-Need-Him/203502106373615?skip_nax_wizard=true)

I have just caught up on many comments. Up late last night listening to events on 5 live. I did a bit of reading.

1929 CRASH caused by
1. bad income distribution
2.Corporate larceny
3. Weak/incompetent banking
4. Import/export imbalance

Sound familiar?

Nobody can condone what is going on but but I said about 2 years ago to friends, there is nothing ore dangerous to our society than a lost generation of uneducated kids.

By the way, nice tan David, 4 days too late to return.

Quote from: epsomraver on August 09, 2011, 12:21:07 PM
I agree Brede, but what punishment for a juvenile for arson on a million pond building? community supervision order? prisons are full and if the Police go in hard everybody has their cameras ready in case they push someone over or give a slap, My son got a bottle smashed through the window of the Police minibus he was driving , attending a 150 mob attacking officers , there were 12 on board, what do you all suggest they do, shout "please go home it is late!!!" the powers to be decided that it was OK  for the Brixton splash to go ahead, ( mini carnival with attitude), the Brixton boys are taunted by the Tottenham boys for being pussys cos they haven't trashed their town so off it kicks, Teresa May wants 5000 less officers in the Met and to reduce their pay perhaps she should think again, sub machine seen on the streets of Streatham last night, not rumour, 1st hand account, any body want to be the brave cop charging down the road on his own?

:Haynes The Maestro:  AT LAST, someone who brings it all home. The Police have been a social and political tool for many decades, and finally it has got to the point where they are so stretched they cannot - effectively - police the nations capital any longer. In the last decade the police numbers have dropped from around 109K to around 106K though the population has increased by an average of 0.7%, and the Met have followed suit. Following the G8 debacle, where the officer (albeit he WAS heavy-handed) was ostracized by the Politicians, Press and community leaders (and also by members on various MBs), the nations protectors of peace have been hamstrung. Just remember one thing, if nothing else: When you are out on the street and a disturbance of this kind kicks off, you can run for cover and go home, the copper standing next to you cannot, and most wouldn't even consider it. It's all well that we are told the police strength is being made up by community officers and suchlike (they used to be called hobby bobbies), but I will admit, if I was in their shoes, I wouldn't don riot gear and put myself up for being both physically attacked by these morons, and then savaged in the press for reacting, that would be left to the regulars.

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 12:41:20 PM
I have just caught up on many comments. Up late last night listening to events on 5 live. I did a bit of reading.

1929 CRASH caused by
1. bad income distribution
2.Corporate larceny
3. Weak/incompetent banking
4. Import/export imbalance

Sound familiar?

Nobody can condone what is going on but but I said about 2 years ago to friends, there is nothing ore dangerous to our society than a lost generation of uneducated kids.

By the way, nice tan David, 4 days too late to return.

If you're talking about the 1929 stock market crash, it wasn't caused by any of those. It was caused by margin buying of stocks and when the market had a small correction, margins were called in leading to panic selling. Also, suggest you read about the Smoot-Hawley act.

Do agree with you though about the lost generation of uneducated kids.

It's a simple cause and effect story, if you ask me:

Society comprehensively lets down poor black urban youth in pretty much every possible respect
As a result, poor black urban youth, lacking the education and support that they need, are educated instead in a culture that prizes behaviour and attitudes that run contrary to our concepts of 'law-abiding' and 'moral'.
As a result, the police treat poor black urban youth as criminals, which hardens attitudes on both sides
As a result, when there is a flashpoint, poor black urban youth will mobilise to a) have a go back at the old bill and b) have a right old tear up that involves getting some free stuff by looting

.

Kcat,
I stand corrected saying it was a cause but the similarities cannot be ignored with regards to how ordinary people were being raped by the powers that be.

Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 09, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
It's a simple cause and effect story, if you ask me:

Society comprehensively lets down poor black urban youth in pretty much every possible respect
As a result, poor black urban youth, lacking the education and support that they need, are educated instead in a culture that prizes behaviour and attitudes that run contrary to our concepts of 'law-abiding' and 'moral'.
As a result, the police treat poor black urban youth as criminals, which hardens attitudes on both sides
As a result, when there is a flashpoint, poor black urban youth will mobilise to a) have a go back at the old bill and b) have a right old tear up that involves getting some free stuff by looting

It is a black thing? Most of the looters I saw were white.

Which goes to show that this is all just opportunistic vandalism far removed from the demo in Tottenheam which was meant to have been the trigger for all of this.

I found it difficult to see through the hoods, masks and goggles to say what colour they are. The few who could be identified, were a mixture of Black, white and Asian.

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 01:32:07 PM
Kcat,
I stand corrected saying it was a cause but the similarities cannot be ignored with regards to how ordinary people were being raped by the powers that be.

There's always been a 'them and us' and there always will be. Can't see any way of changing that. Yes, the rich are getting richer; but so are the poor - those rioters have all got Blackberries for heavens sake.

Like that clown said 'Education, education, education'. The problem is he made things worse, but that's the long term answer.

Joey Barton on Twitter: "Violence always comes from a place of misunderstanding and low to zero self-worth, well mine did anyway."


PLEASE SOMEBODY STOP HIM.

Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 09, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
It's a simple cause and effect story, if you ask me:

Society comprehensively lets down poor black urban youth in pretty much every possible respect
As a result, poor black urban youth, lacking the education and support that they need, are educated instead in a culture that prizes behaviour and attitudes that run contrary to our concepts of 'law-abiding' and 'moral'.
As a result, the police treat poor black urban youth as criminals, which hardens attitudes on both sides
As a result, when there is a flashpoint, poor black urban youth will mobilise to a) have a go back at the old bill and b) have a right old tear up that involves getting some free stuff by looting

T

Misguided, wrong in all aspects where do you get poor black urban youths from? you ever lived in inner london or worked there?

Quote from: epsomraver on August 09, 2011, 02:01:19 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 09, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
It's a simple cause and effect story, if you ask me:

Society comprehensively lets down poor black urban youth in pretty much every possible respect
As a result, poor black urban youth, lacking the education and support that they need, are educated instead in a culture that prizes behaviour and attitudes that run contrary to our concepts of 'law-abiding' and 'moral'.
As a result, the police treat poor black urban youth as criminals, which hardens attitudes on both sides
As a result, when there is a flashpoint, poor black urban youth will mobilise to a) have a go back at the old bill and b) have a right old tear up that involves getting some free stuff by looting

Misguided, wrong in all aspects where do you get poor black urban youths from? you ever lived in inner london or worked there?

:clap_hands:

Bang on Dave. Having been there and done that, and now doing the same in Harlem NYC, I can tell you that the world sure as hell isn't that simple anymore and this 'black and white' nonsense is by no means what it used to be. Trust me I know. My girlfriend is black, she is better educated than me and much better spoken than I ever will be. She still lives where she was born and her grandfather used to live. There are projects here, but there are projects/housing estates in Fulham too, for good and for bad. This whole stereotyping is a load of bollocks. Guess what, their blood is as red as mine.

Transfer power to the Syrian gov for a week and see how many idiots you have left on the streets then.




My girlfriend is black, she is better educated than me and much better spoken than I ever will be.

How on earth did YOU manage to worm your way in there then Finny  :59: (She must like a bit of rough hahahaha).

I am a very liberal person at heart but having lived in Atlanta for 10 years now.... If the police do not do something to scare the population back into line then this will always happen... You can't let the inmates run the asylum...

It is very simple... they need to see a looter in the midst of a serious crime... they need to film the entire process of shouting with a bullhorn to get their attention...when it is clear that the looter has heard and understood the instructions to cease and desist and they throw up a middle finger to the authorities... you then on camera say well time to take some action and a sniper nails him right in the legs with 2 bullets and while it is a tough price to pay... he deserved it by willingly continuing to break serious laws....

You show that on national nightly news and then the people will realize that "stop means stop" or else... You have to have consequences that instill some level of fear and you have to have the politicians back the police too...

I hate guns for the most part but in America.... the police having them helps in these situations...

Quote from: TonyGilroy on August 09, 2011, 10:08:31 AM
JBH

I'm saying what I'm saying not what you say I'm saying.

And I'm staying out of this thread from now on.

Fair enough TG but what it really boils down to is the fact that these lowlifes are not protesters or hard done by individuals, they are criminals who need locking up.

That's my last word on this subject until they cause our game on saturday to be called off.  :028:

Went over to Southside shopping centre at 1:30pm and they're closing it up, as well as the banks and offices around it.

needs a bit more of this

Korean Police in "How to use the riot shield properly" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Drx9X0BaE#)

Mr. Mcscratch, not a great analogy. Police with guns and live ammunition??? new Orleans, wasn't it reported last week that 5 policemen charged with murder at the time of the flooding and looting.
I am not siding with the thieves but you can't give a policeman of mediocre intelligence enough rope to make correct decisoions on the use of guns.

Quote from: King_Crud on August 09, 2011, 02:50:11 PM
Went over to Southside shopping centre at 1:30pm and they're closing it up, as well as the banks and offices around it.

Just drove past Argos in ruislip and thats closed as well.

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 02:54:11 PM
Mr. Mcscratch, not a great analogy. Police with guns and live ammunition??? new Orleans, wasn't it reported last week that 5 policemen charged with murder at the time of the flooding and looting.
I am not siding with the thieves but you can't give a policeman of mediocre intelligence enough rope to make correct decisoions on the use of guns.

Police get charged with all sort of stuff now, because of the barmy human rights, just let them get in their and crack some heads open without the threat of prosecution.

mr. zzamora, I'm assuming you've finally got some sleep. Hope all went well in your area and that you spent a safe night. There were some terrifying posts from you last night [last night over here, that is]. Hope you're well and safe.

Just heard from a bus driver that there's trouble in Hayes Middx. Shops now closing in Northolt, apparantly PC World in Northolt got done over last night.

Quote from: jarv on August 09, 2011, 02:54:11 PM
Mr. Mcscratch, not a great analogy. Police with guns and live ammunition??? new Orleans, wasn't it reported last week that 5 policemen charged with murder at the time of the flooding and looting.
I am not siding with the thieves but you can't give a policeman of mediocre intelligence enough rope to make correct decisoions on the use of guns.

For every case you hear about that involves police shooting misconduct... I will show you 100 examples of police having guns where the deterrent was effective and saved lives and property...

I am not a fan of guns but I have come to realize that if the police in the UK only have riot shields and are outnumbered then they need some thing else to protect themselves and the people around them...

I am not even saying every officer needs to carry but when this sort of mob breaks out... someone has to force the issue... 100 angry citizens of low education and little to lose have no problem beating the crap out of an officer of the law because they have the numbers... Guns on the other hand swing the balance of power... bring a couple of highly trained snipers in when laws are being broken and clip some kneecaps and I can assure you that the riots will end rather quickly...

There is a saying in the US... "stop or I will shoot"... believe it or not...it works...

It's all very well using guns as a deterrent until the deterred decide to arm themselves with guns to fight back.

Quote from: Jimpav on August 09, 2011, 03:40:57 PM
It's all very well using guns as a deterrent until the deterred decide to arm themselves with guns to fight back.

of course...but guns are not prevalent in the UK except for the very underground seedy individuals... I can assure you that stupid 16-17 year olds are not going to have guns that can injure from 100 yards away.. Snipers work in most cases and it will reduce the mob by well over half once that first shot is lodged into a smart-ass punk street thug....

People act real hard until they realize that the opposition has the power..

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 09:11:00 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: TheDon on August 08, 2011, 08:59:27 PM
kaiser chiefs have released a new single " i told you "

:011:  :011: I'm going to knick that and text it on.

Just got one i cant post on here  :dft012:

pm it to me

a dyslexic mob have gathered in luton

How about this approach...........

Football Hooligans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04clpd7h0b0#)

From LBC:
http://www.lbc.co.uk/new-reports-of-disturbances-in-thornton-heath-43379 (http://www.lbc.co.uk/new-reports-of-disturbances-in-thornton-heath-43379)

LBC is receiving new reports of disturbances across London as tensions rise following three days of riots.

A number of areas have been told to close early by police as a precaution as the capital prepares for a fourth day of violence.

Keep refreshing here for the latest news...

3.42pm - Shops in Hampstead are closing, while much of Greenwich is understoof to be all boarded up already.

3.39pm - Businesses all over London are telling their staff to leave early as a precaution.

3.35pm - Brick Lane shops are closing at 4pm, while Crystal Palace shops are also understood to be closing early.

3.33pm - Fulham, Chelsea and Notting Hill believed to be a centre for action and shops have been told to close.

3.30pm - A senior source tells LBC shops in the following locations are being told to close down early today:
Lakeside
Lewisham
Croydon - immediately
Uxbridge - 3pm close
Walthamstow
Sutton - closed
Wandsworth - closed
Wimbledon - closed
Ealing – closed

3.27pm - Tottenham MP David Lammy asks for the Blackberry BBM service to be suspended amid reports riots were being organised via the messaging service.

3.25pm - Whiteleys in Bayswater has been completely evacuated as a precaution.

2.42pm - Boris Johnson speaks live on LBC 97.3 from Clapham Junction and is heavily-heckled by passers-by, angry at what is happening to their city.

2.20pm - Centre Court Shopping Centre in Wimbledon confirmed as closed early, along with South Side Shopping Centre in Wandsworth.

2.06pm - Police confirm they have the possibility of using of plastic bullets if riots get out of hand again.

2.05pm - Shops closing eaerly in Westfield, Bromley and Hackney as tensiopn rises. Twenty police officers are standing standing guard around the entrance to Hackney town hall on Mare Street.

1.44pm - Reports of disturbances in Thornton Heath. Tesco on Brigstock Road is believed to be looted by youngsters.  

Quote from: TheDon on August 09, 2011, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 09:11:00 PM

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 08, 2011, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: TheDon on August 08, 2011, 08:59:27 PM
kaiser chiefs have released a new single " i told you "

:011:  :011: I'm going to knick that and text it on.

Just got one i cant post on here  :dft012:

pm it to me

Pm me your number and i'll send you a few texts.

Latest:
- Big police presence around Tottenham Ct Road, although no trouble.
- Ikea in Wembley closed early!

You all be careful tonight. My sister lives in Fulham now and I'm a bit worried.

Thanks for the BBC report Burt.....I just warned her about that report.

Quote from: epsomraver on August 09, 2011, 02:01:19 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 09, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
It's a simple cause and effect story, if you ask me:

Society comprehensively lets down poor black urban youth in pretty much every possible respect
As a result, poor black urban youth, lacking the education and support that they need, are educated instead in a culture that prizes behaviour and attitudes that run contrary to our concepts of 'law-abiding' and 'moral'.
As a result, the police treat poor black urban youth as criminals, which hardens attitudes on both sides
As a result, when there is a flashpoint, poor black urban youth will mobilise to a) have a go back at the old bill and b) have a right old tear up that involves getting some free stuff by looting

The riots happened because the urban poor are as loving thick as they are disadvantaged, and they're thick and disadvantaged because we're happy as a society to ghettoise them as long as a) we're alright and b) they don't get in the way of our lives.

Misguided, wrong in all aspects where do you get poor black urban youths from? you ever lived in inner london or worked there?

Yes and no.

And please enlighten me as to how I'm apparently misguided.

I'm not denying that there is a considerable white population in poor areas of London such as the ones we've seen on television.

Yes stay safe everybody. Trouble in West Brom, windows smashed etc. I think we can dismiss any pretence that this is anything deep like youths feeling disenfranchised.

People arrested last night in London range from a graphic designer, university graduates etc, nothing to do with the poor and put upon. Many people arrested are from outside London.

Mr Moon

About these poor black urban youths you refer to,

Tell me are these the same poor black urban youths that all have Blackberry's, PS3's, IPODS PC's, £100 trainers, Bling that is so big that it looks fcukin stupid.

Don't get fooled by what the media says, these youths know how to sponge of the state to the max just like unmarried 17-20 year old single mothers with 3 kids and scrounging adults claiming incapacity bennefits whilst they are up a ladder doing their window cleaning round.

Basically they are lazy black/white/beig/brown urban youths who speak like Yank gangsta Rappers even though they don't even know where America is who believe that they are owed a living for doing fcuk all.  :028:

it chav's and idiots going shopping for telly's and trainers
they've played to many computer games and now they are acting it out and taking advantage of a situation-nothing more-doesn't stop it being as scary as hell though
I feel for the people who have lost there homes and lively hoods and I hope they get all the help they need

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 04:48:14 PM
Mr Moon

About these poor black urban youths you refer to,

Tell me are these the same poor black urban youths that all have Blackberry's, PS3's, IPODS PC's, £100 trainers, Bling that is so big that it looks fcukin stupid.

Don't get fooled by what the media says, these youths know how to sponge of the state to the max just like unmarried 17-20 year old single mothers with 3 kids and scrounging adults claiming incapacity bennefits whilst they are up a ladder doing their window cleaning round.

Basically they are lazy black/white/beig/brown urban youths who speak like Yank gangsta Rappers even though they don't even know where America is who believe that they are owed a living for doing fcuk all.  :028:

At last someone else who knows the truth.

Rumors say that it will kick off in Acton tonight. I've been living in England for a week tomorrow. What a sweet welcome.

Problems in Brighton by Brighton looter.  :clap_hands:


http://t.co/lQEDTLT (http://t.co/lQEDTLT)

Quote from: dgnffc on August 09, 2011, 03:56:34 PM
How about this approach...........

Football Hooligans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04clpd7h0b0#)

 091.gif Three English people saying "soccer"  064.gif 064.gif 064.gif

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 05:03:24 PM
Problems in Brighton by Brighton looter.  :clap_hands:


http://t.co/lQEDTLT (http://t.co/lQEDTLT)

And I thought that brighton fans were half decent  fp.gif

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 04:48:14 PM
Mr Moon

About these poor black urban youths you refer to,

Tell me are these the same poor black urban youths that all have Blackberry's, PS3's, IPODS PC's, £100 trainers, Bling that is so big that it looks fcukin stupid.

Don't get fooled by what the media says, these youths know how to sponge of the state to the max just like unmarried 17-20 year old single mothers with 3 kids and scrounging adults claiming incapacity bennefits whilst they are up a ladder doing their window cleaning round.

Basically they are lazy black/white/beig/brown urban youths who speak like Yank gangsta Rappers even though they don't even know where America is who believe that they are owed a living for doing fcuk all.  :028:

1) You should probably re-read what I said, 2) So the fact that someone has a Blackberry and PS3 means they aren't poor? Next you'll be claiming that all the council houses with Sky dishes are rolling in it.

Quote from: Matt on August 09, 2011, 05:02:08 PM
Rumors say that it will kick off in Acton tonight. I've been living in England for a week tomorrow. What a sweet welcome.

so it's your fault

Quote from: King_Crud on August 09, 2011, 05:07:24 PM

Quote from: Matt on August 09, 2011, 05:02:08 PM
Rumors say that it will kick off in Acton tonight. I've been living in England for a week tomorrow. What a sweet welcome.

so it's your fault

Seems a direct link to me as well, your majesty

its kicked off in East Ham

Can I just say I can't afford a Blackberry or Sky or tickets by train to London. So yes people in council houses are rolling in it compared to some. If they can afford a Sky subscription. They are well off.

Quote from: King_Crud on August 09, 2011, 05:07:24 PM

Quote from: Matt on August 09, 2011, 05:02:08 PM
Rumors say that it will kick off in Acton tonight. I've been living in England for a week tomorrow. What a sweet welcome.

so it's your fault

Obviously some people don't want me here.

And there is some window-smashing going on in West Bromwich.

Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 09, 2011, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 04:48:14 PM
Mr Moon

About these poor black urban youths you refer to,

Tell me are these the same poor black urban youths that all have Blackberry's, PS3's, IPODS PC's, £100 trainers, Bling that is so big that it looks fcukin stupid.

Don't get fooled by what the media says, these youths know how to sponge of the state to the max just like unmarried 17-20 year old single mothers with 3 kids and scrounging adults claiming incapacity bennefits whilst they are up a ladder doing their window cleaning round.

Basically they are lazy black/white/beig/brown urban youths who speak like Yank gangsta Rappers even though they don't even know where America is who believe that they are owed a living for doing fcuk all.  :028:

1) You should probably re-read what I said, 2) So the fact that someone has a Blackberry and PS3 means they aren't poor? Next you'll be claiming that all the council houses with Sky dishes are rolling in it.

I have read what you said and My reference these poor black urban youths owning Blackberrys etc is a true fact, so as they own them how do you suppose they paid for them?

1. They either nicked them of other not so urban youths
2. Stole them from a store/car/someones pocket etc
3. They pay for them from their State handouts.
4. They worked to earn cash in hand to by them without it affecting their benefit money.


So pray tell me how you really think that these so called poor deprived youths afford them?

And as for your comment about people living in council houses with Sky dishes rolling in it, i find it tasteless on you part to think that working class people are not allowed to spend their hard earned cash however they chose to, I am not as you seem to think a class snob I admire the honest working class family because i come from one myself.

A quiet night in from the whole country is called for then. Record viewing figures for 'Cops with Camera's' tonight I reckon.

I think I heard Cameron say 'All Police leave has been cancelled tonight' and I hope the same is true of all Mod leave on FoF! :54:

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 05:20:30 PM

And as for your comment about people living in council houses with Sky dishes rolling in it, i find it tasteless on you part to think that working class people are not allowed to spend their hard earned cash however they chose to, I am not as you seem to think a class snob I admire the honest working class family because i come from one myself.

Errrrm, we're arguing for the same thing here. I was basically asking how on earth you can make an assumption on someone's lifestyle just by what he sees them holding. We live in a generation where it's more important to have a 50" plasma tv than a kitchen table.

Quote from: White Noise on August 09, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
A quiet night in from the whole country is called for then. Record viewing figures for 'Cops with Camera's' tonight I reckon.

I think I heard Cameron say 'All Police leave has been cancelled tonight' and I hope the same is true of all Mod leave on FoF! :54:

We're here. Just being more liberal with the rules given the circumstances. Prison sentences and gruel will be handed out liberally once this has passed.

Quote from: RidgeRider on August 09, 2011, 05:27:37 PM

Quote from: White Noise on August 09, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
A quiet night in from the whole country is called for then. Record viewing figures for 'Cops with Camera's' tonight I reckon.

I think I heard Cameron say 'All Police leave has been cancelled tonight' and I hope the same is true of all Mod leave on FoF! :54:

We're here. Just being more liberal with the rules given the circumstances. Prison sentences and gruel will be handed out liberally once this has passed.

"Too bad" there isn't anything to loot on this website!  084.gif

Kingston, Surbiton and tolworth shops closed early, partner works for HSBC and heard a story from last night in croydon.
A corner shop on london road shut up and the three family owners locked them selves in to make sure it was not robbed and the police come along and tell them to get out. They refuse but police continue to tell them to get out or.....yes they will be arrested. As soon as they get out and start walking down the road they look behind as the mob hit every shop, including theirs. Also kebab shop owner comes out of shop with knife to defend his shop as windows get busted and gets arrested. Just thought I would share them with you.

Gallions Reach shopping centre in Beckton being trashed.

Its going to be a long night.

Stay safe, people.

Which side do you think has driven these stats? People defending their property/communities or the other lot -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bs_tab (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bs_tab)

Disturbances in Wolverhampton now.

NOTHING TO LOOT ON THIS WEBSITE? You kidding me? I have just 'had these comfy slippers away' as we down with the yoof say. The slippers have a hole in just like the ones I had left here but they are very nice.

Ridge's bike I have sold to Lork and LBs Michael Jackson CDs I have been flogging at the corner of those ruffians on TIFF. Nothing to loot? Yer aving a larf, as we ruff yoof types say.

Hold on. Where's me chair gone?

Quote from: sipwell on August 09, 2011, 05:30:17 PM

Quote from: RidgeRider on August 09, 2011, 05:27:37 PM

Quote from: White Noise on August 09, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
A quiet night in from the whole country is called for then. Record viewing figures for 'Cops with Camera's' tonight I reckon.

I think I heard Cameron say 'All Police leave has been cancelled tonight' and I hope the same is true of all Mod leave on FoF! :54:

We're here. Just being more liberal with the rules given the circumstances. Prison sentences and gruel will be handed out liberally once this has passed.

"Too bad" there isn't anything to loot on this website!  084.gif

Car on fire in Croydon, of all places. I thought there was nothing left to burn there.

Quote from: Burt on August 09, 2011, 05:38:06 PM
Disturbances in Wolverhampton now.

send in the Wolves football team to sort it out.

Quote from: Burt on August 09, 2011, 05:40:57 PM
Car on fire in Croydon, of all places. I thought there was nothing left to burn there.

what about longmead road Burt, any trouble there? I was never keen on selling property down that area, much prefer the river road area.

The Smiths - Panic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AlH2oYedfk#)

sums up the situation tbh.

I can't hear "Panic" without thinking of "Shaun of the Dead."

5.25pm: BREAKING: The Independent Police Complaints Commission has just announced that there is no evidence that Mark Duggan opened fire at police officers before he was shot dead, according to ballistic test results, reports the Press Association.

Quote from: The King on August 09, 2011, 05:57:59 PM
5.25pm: BREAKING: The Independent Police Complaints Commission has just announced that there is no evidence that Mark Duggan opened fire at police officers before he was shot dead, according to ballistic test results, reports the Press Association.

Doesn't matter really. If, and we will have to take someone's word for this, he produced a firearm, and the senior police officer on site felt it constituted a threat to life, then they have permission to shoot.

It's a little different from the 'Yellow Card' rules that Finny will have lived by.

This does not constitute me condoning his shooting by the way.

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/)

Quote from: The King on August 09, 2011, 05:57:59 PM
5.25pm: BREAKING: The Independent Police Complaints Commission has just announced that there is no evidence that Mark Duggan opened fire at police officers before he was shot dead, according to ballistic test results, reports the Press Association.

Sadly this is now a seperate bit of news. The family and friends or Mr Duggan were very quick to distance themselves from the riots. We should be bringing the spotlight on the incident and this mistake. Instead we are hoping they are on the ground to stop the thugs.

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:04:25 PM

Quote from: The King on August 09, 2011, 05:57:59 PM
5.25pm: BREAKING: The Independent Police Complaints Commission has just announced that there is no evidence that Mark Duggan opened fire at police officers before he was shot dead, according to ballistic test results, reports the Press Association.

Sadly this is now a seperate bit of news. The family and friends or Mr Duggan were very quick to distance themselves from the riots. We should be bringing the spotlight on the incident and this mistake. Instead we are hoping they are on the ground to stop the thugs.

Sorry if I misinterpreted the thrust of the comment made, but apparently it says 'Opened Fire", that does not mean shooting him dead was anything like a mistake. Given circumstances of a miscreant and target of the operation having a firearm and even waving it in my direction, if I had been one of the officers involved, I believe I would have had little compunction to shoot first, rather than wait for the bullet to head in my direction.

Unfortunately, as usual, people will blame the officer and here comes another witch-hunt - all the time the real reasons for these riots are lost in the confusion.

1818: BBC News understands that the CO19 officers involved in the fatal shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham last Thursday discharged their firearms because they believed there was a threat to human life. Their guidelines allow them to shoot in such circumstances. Another key witness, the driver of the minicab in which Mark Duggan was travelling, has yet to give his description of what happened. He is understood to be in a severe state of shock.

As you and I said Logicalman.

Gentleman, people being shot by mistake by Police on the streets of London and the Police trying to cover it up, is not something that has never happened. Which is why we need to investigate the shooting. There is still doubt who was waving what at whom. The Police must be held to account. However, that debate is for another day and another place.

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262851_2367130096873_1209050623_32806392_6181721_n.jpg)

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:30:09 PM
Gentleman, people being shot by mistake by Police on the streets of London and the Police trying to cover it up, is not something that has never happened. Which is why we need to investigate the shooting. There is still doubt who was waving what at whom. The Police must be held to account. However, that debate is for another day and another place.

That is the exact statement that has meant the Police have been slow to react to the Riots:

The Police must be held to account.

What about the thugs that get away with knife/gun crime all the time shouldn't they be held to account rather than letting them hid behind red tape that stops the police doing their job?

THEY MUST BRING BACK THE SPG IMMEADIATELY THEY WOULD SORT THESE LITTLE TWATS OUT

Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 09, 2011, 06:35:46 PM
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262851_2367130096873_1209050623_32806392_6181721_n.jpg)

Robbing Poundland, that just about some this scum up!!

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 06:37:09 PM

Robbing Poundland, that just about some this scum up!!

One of the few places that sells Milka Daim though!

Mr Reliable about the situation and his feelings.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14464958.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14464958.stm)

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 06:36:20 PM

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:30:09 PM
Gentleman, people being shot by mistake by Police on the streets of London and the Police trying to cover it up, is not something that has never happened. Which is why we need to investigate the shooting. There is still doubt who was waving what at whom. The Police must be held to account. However, that debate is for another day and another place.

That is the exact statement that has meant the Police have been slow to react to the Riots:

The Police must be held to account.

What about the thugs that get away with knife/gun crime all the time shouldn't they be held to account rather than letting them hid behind red tape that stops the police doing their job?

THEY MUST BRING BACK THE SPG IMMEADIATELY THEY WOULD SORT THESE LITTLE TWATS OUT

Police do not decide not to do their job because they will have to be held account. Police are human and humans make mistakes. As for the thugs being held into account. I don't see the connection. I agree that any crime by any age should be punished. The SPG were a failure because Police made too many mistakes. I do agree though that thugs are not punished enough. No room in the prison system doesn't help. But the shooting and riots are not connected and nor is the fact we should always police our Police.

Interesting article from the USA, wish we had a mayor who was willing to say what he thinks even if you don't agree with it all. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/ (http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/)

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:52:51 PM

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 06:36:20 PM

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:30:09 PM
Gentleman, people being shot by mistake by Police on the streets of London and the Police trying to cover it up, is not something that has never happened. Which is why we need to investigate the shooting. There is still doubt who was waving what at whom. The Police must be held to account. However, that debate is for another day and another place.

That is the exact statement that has meant the Police have been slow to react to the Riots:

The Police must be held to account.

What about the thugs that get away with knife/gun crime all the time shouldn't they be held to account rather than letting them hid behind red tape that stops the police doing their job?

THEY MUST BRING BACK THE SPG IMMEADIATELY THEY WOULD SORT THESE LITTLE TWATS OUT

This is just a silly statement. Police do not decide not to do their job because they will have to be held account. Police are human and humans make mistakes. As for the thugs being held into account. I don't see the connection. I agree that any crime by any age should be punished. The SPG were a failure because Police made too many mistakes. I do agree though that thugs are not punished enough. No room in the prison system diesn't help.

Sorry Lighthouse but they are worried about what will happen to them if they make a small misjudgement of a situation, how do i know well its beacuse my Cousin is in the Met and he told me so, he is also on the streets trying to do his job as we speak wishing that they could get stuck in, but due to so much red tape they can't.

As for there being no room in the prison system well that is down to the lack of action by the last government in deporting illegals in this country, also there are lots of old army barracks rthat could be used to hold these rioters in.

How come Britain does not have/ does not use water cannons?

Quote from: MJG on August 09, 2011, 06:55:46 PM
Interesting article from the USA, wish we had a mayor who was willing to say what he thinks even if you don't agree with it all. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/ (http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/)

That is extremly rare here, some one calling it like it is. In Detroit, the previous mayor robbed the city blind, and covered up a murder while living a thugs life at a tax-payer provided mansion and funded by a near bankrupt city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick) .

Quote from: MJG on August 09, 2011, 06:55:46 PM
Interesting article from the USA, wish we had a mayor who was willing to say what he thinks even if you don't agree with it all. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/ (http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/)

Top stuff

Wish more educated black leaders would do this... Also wish more southern state white government leaders would also do the same for all the uneducated, racist white trash in the south too...

 :016: :016: :016:

One picture one face of what these pieces of sh$t are doing to perfectly innocent people.
This poor women. What justice will she see???
England is just further down the sclerotic road of decay.We in the states are not far behind having already suffered numerous violent flash mobs attacking innocent people robbing stealing and looting.  

I hope you all care more for the victims and are not seriously justifying this horror???  :dft007:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14462007 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14462007)

Does anyone think water cannons or rubber bullets will make a damn bit of difference?  These thugs will not be afraid of either one. There are not enough water cannons in all of the UK to be at every trouble spot.  There are not enough law enforcement officers either.  London could have a force of 200K and they still couldn't stop it--because they can't be everywhere and the thugs know that the law abiding citizens have given up or ceded their god given right of self-defense and defense of property to the government.  Look at the Turks and their ball bat brigade--looters knew they would get their brains bashed in if they crossed their lines.


The only thing that will stop this is fear of the consequences or they tire themselves out and get bored with stealing and rampaging.  What happened to looters will be shot on sight?  A few well placed shots would have a great deterrent effect.

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 09, 2011, 07:07:54 PM

Quote from: MJG on August 09, 2011, 06:55:46 PM
Interesting article from the USA, wish we had a mayor who was willing to say what he thinks even if you don't agree with it all. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/ (http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/mayor-talks-tough-to-black-teens-after-flash-mobs/)

That is extremly rare here, some one calling it like it is. In Detroit, the previous mayor robbed the city blind, and covered up a murder while living a thugs life at a tax-payer provided mansion and funded by a near bankrupt city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick) .

Well the Philadelphia Mayor just got on board when he had no other choice. As recent as June he was trying to minimize these events when there was overwhelming evidence that these were black mobs terrorizing mainly white people. It is just a fact and no one wants to hear it.
The media here has tried its best to brush all of this under the rug and or totally ignore it. Chicago, Peoria, Greensboro, Milwaukee, Charlotte, (my home town) Philadelphia and DC and on and on all summer these events have taken place.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Just embarrassingly thick.

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Great one..saw this on BBC as well. It is all the "rich peoples" fault don't you know.
Like that poor women I linked to before still shaking from her assault.
They could be campaign managers for our democrat party!!!

London unrest: Rioters charge police in Woolwich
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050)

This is infuriating.  Such impotence in the face of evil.  Ask yourself how many times this scene has been repeated during the last 3 days?

Quote from: LordNelson on August 09, 2011, 07:24:12 PM
Does anyone think water cannons or rubber bullets will make a damn bit of difference?  These thugs will not be afraid of either one.

Never seen a water cannon in live action, did you? The toughest man gets blown away several meters. Last man standing is a cop.

Quote from: LordNelson on August 09, 2011, 07:36:10 PM
London unrest: Rioters charge police in Woolwich
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050)

This is infuriating.  Such impotence in the face of evil.  Ask yourself how many times this scene has been repeated during the last 3 days?

Some of these people are barely 15!

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 09, 2011, 07:32:24 PM

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Great one..saw this on BBC as well. It is all the "rich peoples" fault don't you know.
Like that poor women I linked to before still shaking from her assault.
They could be campaign managers for our democrat party!!!  :011: :011: :011:

OY...Jimbob... don't lump all Democrats in with people like this... just as many of us are disgusted with people expecting hand-outs...

Just as many republicans (most of my mates) are also socially liberal and could care less whether gays get married and  people legally smoke pot...

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Should have been put down at birth. Anyone hear the girl last night describing it as getting their taxes back? As if she'd ever done a days work in her life  :014:

"and the thugs know that the law abiding citizens have given up or ceded their god given right of self-defense and defense of property to the government"

I don't think that is true and the recent decision that the Manchester man was within his rights to stab to death a thug who, with others, was trying to enter his house was encouraging in this regard. I suspect that if the rubbish that has been causing havoc in inner London venture outwards, they will find that the white British, Asian and Chinese who make up much of the population of such boroughs won't be backward in defending themselves and their property in a robust manner.

Quote from: sipwell on August 09, 2011, 07:39:24 PM

Quote from: LordNelson on August 09, 2011, 07:36:10 PM
London unrest: Rioters charge police in Woolwich
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050)

This is infuriating.  Such impotence in the face of evil.  Ask yourself how many times this scene has been repeated during the last 3 days?

Some of these people are barely 15!

let's all pray they dont reach 16.

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Unfortunately, these pinheads are 100% correct in boasting "that they were showing police that 'we can do what we want'."

Quote from: sipwell on August 09, 2011, 07:07:17 PM
How come Britain does not have/ does not use water cannons?

Apparently we have 6! They live in Northern Ireland and will not be deployed to mainland Britain because a) it's the marching season in NI and they may be needed, and b) no Prime Minister wants to be the one to be perceived as having lost control. The latter is also why the army is not being called on to assist.

Of course, there would be the possibility that the Prime Minister could be perceived as the strongest since Churchill, but he'd probably have to - nope, not going to take a political stance here.

The other problem with water cannon in London is deciding where to site them. It's a big place, and the mobs are highly mobile.

Quote from: Brede Butter Pudding on August 09, 2011, 07:29:54 PM

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Just embarrassingly thick.

I expect them to be pregnant with their 3rd child in 3 years wanting hand outs from the state that they say is at fault for everything using up the taxes from the Rich People as they put it to look after the kids and to buy their fags and cider with!

There were race riots here in Baltimore, and in countless other cities across America, in '68 over the assassination of MLK. Some neighborhoods never recovered. This is what a few currently look like.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/3771516836_06c4ce2469_z.jpg?zz=1)

I hope these youth realize the lasting impact of their actions, but probably won't.

Quote from: Ron Sheepskin on August 09, 2011, 07:56:25 PM

Quote from: sipwell on August 09, 2011, 07:07:17 PM
How come Britain does not have/ does not use water cannons?

Apparently we have 6! They live in Northern Ireland and will not be deployed to mainland Britain because a) it's the marching season in NI and they may be needed, and b) no Prime Minister wants to be the one to be perceived as having lost control. The latter is also why the army is not being called on to assist.

Of course, there would be the possibility that the Prime Minister could be perceived as the strongest since Churchill, but he'd probably have to - nope, not going to take a political stance here.

The other problem with water cannon in London is deciding where to site them. It's a big place, and the mobs are highly mobile.

Have to agree Mr sheepskin, if the PM be he red or blue ordered in the troops i'd think he was a very strong leader not lost control but taking back the city. In politics it's no secret i'm right wing, but the fact that Cameron isn't sending in the troops makes me think he's weak. If Milliband sent them in i'd think he was a legend so not a political post i just want to see these scum stopped.

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:52:51 PM

Quote from: JBH on August 09, 2011, 06:36:20 PM

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 09, 2011, 06:30:09 PM
Gentleman, people being shot by mistake by Police on the streets of London and the Police trying to cover it up, is not something that has never happened. Which is why we need to investigate the shooting. There is still doubt who was waving what at whom. The Police must be held to account. However, that debate is for another day and another place.

That is the exact statement that has meant the Police have been slow to react to the Riots:

The Police must be held to account.

What about the thugs that get away with knife/gun crime all the time shouldn't they be held to account rather than letting them hid behind red tape that stops the police doing their job?

THEY MUST BRING BACK THE SPG IMMEADIATELY THEY WOULD SORT THESE LITTLE TWATS OUT

Police do not decide not to do their job because they will have to be held account.

Sorry,but with all due respect, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Every PC will tell you that the first thing that goes through their minds in such situations is what happens if I do this or that? I'm not talking about the day-to-day stuff, but incidents of this kind. Since the Sheehy report and others it has always been about how to rein in the Police, and the guys at the sharp end are the cannon fodder for every Politician, community leader and Trade Union leader to hold to account first whilst hiding their own lack of control and accountability from public view.

Now kicked off big time in Manchester by the sound of it all they are doing is Looting and causing damage for no other reason than for personal gain and a laugh.

Enough of this Liberal approach get into the scum bags now and give them a fcukin good kicking. :028: :028: :028: :028:

Oh sorry the Police can't incase in offends people.

What a load off bollox this country has become.

Don't forget that people aren't born this way. They have the same intellectual capacity and the same morals at birth. The problem is the community they grow up in and the say they feel they have there. They don't understand that in doing right their voice will be heard. These people need to be taught, but not with violence. You can't blame the police.

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 09, 2011, 07:13:31 PM
:016: :016: :016:

One picture one face of what these pieces of sh$t are doing to perfectly innocent people.
This poor women. What justice will she see???
England is just further down the sclerotic road of decay.We in the states are not far behind having already suffered numerous violent flash mobs attacking innocent people robbing stealing and looting.  

I hope you all care more for the victims and are not seriously justifying this horror???  :dft007:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14462007 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14462007)

JB, A Remington 870 w 7 rd tube and a 18in barrel w/ 0 buck is my tool of choice for keeping the riff raff out of the house.

To be honest i think we all know who is mostly to blame, but of course it will remain unmentioned  :033:

Quote from: mccscratch on August 09, 2011, 07:40:18 PM

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 09, 2011, 07:32:24 PM

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 07:27:51 PM
Riot Girls 'Brag' About Violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM#ws)

....  :dft008:

Great one..saw this on BBC as well. It is all the "rich peoples" fault don't you know.
Like that poor women I linked to before still shaking from her assault.
They could be campaign managers for our democrat party!!!  :011: :011: :011:

OY...Jimbob... don't lump all Democrats in with people like this... just as many of us are disgusted with people expecting hand-outs...

Just as many republicans (most of my mates) are also socially liberal and could care less whether gays get married and  people legally smoke pot...

Yes I am more of a libertarian but my point was the class warfare mantra...that is all we hear from the left here and it is the same ole same old. That is just a fact - class warfare. Everything is the "rich peoples" fault. That is just mind numbingly stupid. We are heading down the path of our friends across the pond. The ultimate fulfillment of the cradle to grave nanny state where everyone is on the dole everyone has their hands out there is no incentive for investment or growth. We are falling into the same rabbit hole.

I just wish some journalist just ONE would get off his or her fat ass and actually investigate the clear orchestration of these riots and find who the ring leaders are because it is clearly organized.

Just heard that there has been a bunch of residents in Southall trying to chase off looters...

All power to them.

So tell me what the rationale is for looting the Oxfam store in Oldham St, Manchester?

Brainless morons.

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 09, 2011, 09:04:11 PM
I just wish some journalist just ONE would get off his or her fat ass and actually investigate the clear orchestration of these riots and find who the ring leaders are because it is clearly organized.

Lets face it, in every business, social organisation or whatever, there is a hierarchy. people are sheep, few of them would have the guts to make a stand like this on their own accord. Who knows if the gangs top dogs are talking to each other from city to city. They have loads of information on BBC about where the police will be and how they are preparing. It's not jsut kids and gangs though, apparently a family were seen driving up to lidl - filling the car up - and driving away! Madness.

What worries me most is how vulnerable this makes England - all the police are in one place and not another...

Quote from: RidgeRider on August 09, 2011, 05:27:37 PM

Quote from: White Noise on August 09, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
A quiet night in from the whole country is called for then. Record viewing figures for 'Cops with Camera's' tonight I reckon.

I think I heard Cameron say 'All Police leave has been cancelled tonight' and I hope the same is true of all Mod leave on FoF! :54:

We're here. Just being more liberal with the rules given the circumstances. Prison sentences and gruel will be handed out liberally once this has passed.

Jack admits to liberal tendencies. Glad this post came with a time stamp!  Get Coat gif

Quote from: Sector9 on August 09, 2011, 08:55:27 PM
Don't forget that people aren't born this way. They have the same intellectual capacity and the same morals at birth. The problem is the community they grow up in and the say they feel they have there. They don't understand that in doing right their voice will be heard. These people need to be taught, but not with violence. You can't blame the police.

I am pretty sure the writers of the Bell Curve would disagree with that statement wholeheartedly...

I know it was very controversial but the more and more I deal with people in Atlanta and people in the south in general I come to realize that people are more often than not poor because they are just plain unintelligent and ignorant. Not to mention the fact that their communities enhance those unfortunate traits by making them lazy as well which just means it has a double negative effect on all of them...

These scum don't even know the name of the geezer that was shot and that they are, 'supposedly' fighting for!
They are mostly going out to cause mayhem just so they can loot!
For example - who in Birmingham knows him? unless they bought from him, of course! (Am i, even, aloud to suggest such a thing ?!?

They come out with this crap (spoken in broken jamaican): "when we get respec' we den respec' da police back, init"
and
"If da man had a gon in e's 'andn den da police shuld shoot e's 'and not in de chest init"

God what has this country become?
What on earth did hundreds of thousands, born and bred brits, die for in numerous wars?

I actually give up on this and feel so scared for the future of this once great nation.

I know i'll probs get a slating for this - but so be it...
It's about time we grouped  as vigilantes in this country to protect ourselves against the vermin filth that even though were born here - shouldn't have been in the first place! I include white people in this!!!
Get the army on the streets and stop pussyfooting about - use whatever means necessary so that decent, hardworking folk, can go about their normal, 'safe', lives!!!  

Quote from: Sector9 on August 09, 2011, 09:23:36 PM

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 09, 2011, 09:04:11 PM
I just wish some journalist just ONE would get off his or her fat ass and actually investigate the clear orchestration of these riots and find who the ring leaders are because it is clearly organized.

Lets face it, in every business, social organisation or whatever, there is a hierarchy. people are sheep, few of them would have the guts to make a stand like this on their own accord. Who knows if the gangs top dogs are talking to each other from city to city. They have loads of information on BBC about where the police will be and how they are preparing. It's not jsut kids and gangs though, apparently a family were seen driving up to lidl - filling the car up - and driving away! Madness.

What worries me most is how vulnerable this makes England - all the police are in one place and not another...

Its all crowdsourcing. Principally via BBM.

Shut down the mobile phone opererators for a bit and most of the problems would not have happened.

Bit of an extreme measure, but then again destroying people's livelihoods is not something to be taken lightly.

Quote from: mccscratch on August 09, 2011, 09:28:20 PM

Quote from: Sector9 on August 09, 2011, 08:55:27 PM
Don't forget that people aren't born this way. They have the same intellectual capacity and the same morals at birth. The problem is the community they grow up in and the say they feel they have there. They don't understand that in doing right their voice will be heard. These people need to be taught, but not with violence. You can't blame the police.

I am pretty sure the writers of the Bell Curve would disagree with that statement wholeheartedly...

I know it was very controversial but the more and more I deal with people in Atlanta and people in the south in general I come to realize that people are more often than not poor because they are just plain unintelligent and ignorant. Not to mention the fact that their communities enhance those unfortunate traits by making them lazy as well which just means it has a double negative effect on all of them...

The Bell Curve was shown to be racist nonsense a long time ago mate.

Quote from: Burt on August 09, 2011, 09:08:30 PM
Just heard that there has been a bunch of residents in Southall trying to chase off looters...

All power to them.

Good for them! Tell those kids to go home to mommy and daddy. Seriously, how bad of parents are these people?

Quote from: Burt on August 09, 2011, 09:31:13 PM

Quote from: Sector9 on August 09, 2011, 09:23:36 PM

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 09, 2011, 09:04:11 PM
I just wish some journalist just ONE would get off his or her fat ass and actually investigate the clear orchestration of these riots and find who the ring leaders are because it is clearly organized.

Lets face it, in every business, social organisation or whatever, there is a hierarchy. people are sheep, few of them would have the guts to make a stand like this on their own accord. Who knows if the gangs top dogs are talking to each other from city to city. They have loads of information on BBC about where the police will be and how they are preparing. It's not jsut kids and gangs though, apparently a family were seen driving up to lidl - filling the car up - and driving away! Madness.

What worries me most is how vulnerable this makes England - all the police are in one place and not another...

Its all crowdsourcing. Principally via BBM.

Shut down the mobile phone opererators for a bit and most of the problems would not have happened.

Bit of an extreme measure, but then again destroying people's livelihoods is not something to be taken lightly.

Great idea Burt!

Never thought I'd say it, but a lot of respect from me going out to Milwall fans and Charlton fans protecting Eltham are singing "No One Loots Us" is genius.Just hope they don't exacerbate the situation...

http://twitpic.com/63k6tg (http://twitpic.com/63k6tg)

Big mob of vigilantes patrolling the streets of Enfield, hope they catch some scummy rats.

 
 2104: Tom Steedman describes to the BBC News Channel watching rioters target a Salford supermarket. He says they managed to drive away police who had been defending the store. "[The rioters] then proceeded to smash through all the shutters on the store, it's been completely looted, and now they've set the store on fire." Mr Steedman says he has seen a lot of people walking away with bags. "It's not just youths, there was actually a family drove up in a car and filled up their boot with stuff from Lidl and drove off."
 

Quote from: mccscratch on August 09, 2011, 09:28:20 PM

Quote from: Sector9 on August 09, 2011, 08:55:27 PM
Don't forget that people aren't born this way. They have the same intellectual capacity and the same morals at birth. The problem is the community they grow up in and the say they feel they have there. They don't understand that in doing right their voice will be heard. These people need to be taught, but not with violence. You can't blame the police.

I am pretty sure the writers of the Bell Curve would disagree with that statement wholeheartedly...

I know it was very controversial but the more and more I deal with people in Atlanta and people in the south in general I come to realize that people are more often than not poor because they are just plain unintelligent and ignorant. Not to mention the fact that their communities enhance those unfortunate traits by making them lazy as well which just means it has a double negative effect on all of them...

Unintelligent or uneducated? Ignorant - yes indeed. I agree that the communities are encouraging them to be lazy.

These people have the capacity to work hard and earn a place in society. They just don't understand it because they have never effectively been taught it.

Quote from: LordNelson on August 09, 2011, 09:35:12 PM

 2104: Tom Steedman describes to the BBC News Channel watching rioters target a Salford supermarket. He says they managed to drive away police who had been defending the store. "[The rioters] then proceeded to smash through all the shutters on the store, it's been completely looted, and now they've set the store on fire." Mr Steedman says he has seen a lot of people walking away with bags. "It's not just youths, there was actually a family drove up in a car and filled up their boot with stuff from Lidl and drove off."
 

What a bunch of losers!  fp.gif

Quote from: Burt on August 09, 2011, 09:08:30 PM
Just heard that there has been a bunch of residents in Southall trying to chase off looters...

All power to them.

I do a lot of work in Southall, and find the Hindu bunch a good lot  :54:

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 09:34:15 PM
Never thought I'd say it, but a lot of respect from me going out to Milwall fans and Charlton fans protecting Eltham are singing "No One Loots Us" is genius.Just hope they don't exacerbate the situation...

http://twitpic.com/63k6tg (http://twitpic.com/63k6tg)

Now this is great to see! People stepping up for what they believe in and being good citizens.  082.gif

Just caught up on the last 5 or 6 pages. Wow, the world has turned upside down. FatFreddy'sCat is the soul of restraint and the voice of reason in this thread.

Well done, Fredster. We must have a pint and chat next month.

Quote from: FatFreddysCat on August 09, 2011, 09:37:16 PM

Quote from: Burt on August 09, 2011, 09:08:30 PM
Just heard that there has been a bunch of residents in Southall trying to chase off looters...

All power to them.

I do a lot of work in Southall, and find the Hindu bunch a good lot  :54:

Just seem it's the Sikh's also a good lot  :54:

spurs have signed Italian striker gotta grabatelli

Quote from: HatterDon on August 09, 2011, 09:38:41 PM
Just caught up on the last 5 or 6 pages. Wow, the world has turned upside down. FatFreddy'sCat is the soul of restraint and the voice of reason in this thread.

Well done, Fredster. We must have a pint and chat next month.

Hopefully HD, but if i've been on the vodka redbulls my tongue may run away with me, plus i cant get banned from FOF from pub talk  :dft012:

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 09:34:15 PM
Never thought I'd say it, but a lot of respect from me going out to Milwall fans and Charlton fans protecting Eltham are singing "No One Loots Us" is genius.Just hope they don't exacerbate the situation...

http://twitpic.com/63k6tg (http://twitpic.com/63k6tg)

Put's me on the horns of a dilemna 079.gif

My mate just e-mailed from South-East London.
Apparently Millwall and Charlton are now patrolling Eltham High Street with the chants of "No one loots us, we don't care!"

Quote from: HatterDon on August 09, 2011, 09:38:41 PM
Just caught up on the last 5 or 6 pages. Wow, the world has turned upside down. FatFreddy'sCat is the soul of restraint and the voice of reason in this thread.

Well done, Fredster. We must have a pint and chat next month.

I'd like to think i'm always the voice of reason and restraint  064.gif

How strange that the situation we find ourselves in today in Britain stems in some part from one of the noblest achievements of our political system...namely the welfare state, where no one had to fear starvation due to circumstances of unemployment, ill health etc. .....that very same system has been hijacked by an underclass for their own convenience and been used as a way to produce families without the problems of having to work, and without a traditional family structure....with feral kids sent on to the streets without morals instilled by the discipline of parental control.

Liberal values aren't going to be any use in the Britain of the future if this prevails... gated communities, guards and fear are going to be the norm.

23:13
Police Station in Nottingham firebombed.   :014:

Helicopter been hoving about half a mile from my house for the last ten minutes and fireworks going off ???? Tje little people would get a good hiding if they come on my estate, even the yoot on here know to not fuss about too much, only problem really is the smackheads that seem to be growing in number, but they are just annoying ponces.

Gloucester now seeing trouble. Oh all those poor disenfranchised children.

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 10, 2011, 02:31:46 AM
Gloucester now seeing trouble. Oh all those poor disenfranchised children.

What I want to know is how Gloucester is blowing up and Hull isn't?

There is probably nothing to loot there I guess (other than fish).

Quote from: os5889 on August 09, 2011, 06:04:12 PM
Has anyone seen this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/)

Nice to see you lot taking an interest in baseball. Could even make a real World Series after a few years :hook:

Do your troops fight and die in other lands to protect these little terrorists from within?  Redeploy them.

3 dead in Birmingham after car mounts pavement and runs into a group of asians protecting their property. One man arrested and charged with murder.

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/MrCrane/Kaiser_Risotto.jpg)

I was in Clapham Junction yesterday and I noticed that the one shop that was untouched by the looters in St. John's Road was Waterstones, the bookseller. I suppose the scum just weren't impressed by the finalists for the Man Booker Prize this year and decided not to stock up on them.

Quote from: Willard on August 10, 2011, 09:29:21 AM
I was in Clapham Junction yesterday and I noticed that the one shop that was untouched by the looters in St. John's Road was Waterstones, the bookseller. I suppose the scum just weren't impressed by the finalists for the Man Booker Prize this year and decided not to stock up on them.

They prefer to patronise independent book stores.

Quote from: Willard on August 10, 2011, 09:29:21 AM
I was in Clapham Junction yesterday and I noticed that the one shop that was untouched by the looters in St. John's Road was Waterstones, the bookseller. I suppose the scum just weren't impressed by the finalists for the Man Booker Prize this year and decided not to stock up on them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting)

Similar observation, arty-fartyly formulated :)

They probably don't have a large selection of audio books.

Yes, at work we were talking about this yesterday and the comment was that Greggs and Waterstones seemed to be the only shops not getting trashed.

Report from HM prisons inspector just about sums up what is really wrong with the punishment available to the courts


However, the report did acknowledge that the prison had good training opportunities and some good resettlement services.

General and mental health services fared well, and there were few complaints about the food.

shame the local hospital fared badly on the food issue!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9560000/9560646.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9560000/9560646.stm)

Quote from: LordNelson on August 09, 2011, 11:14:37 PM
23:13
Police Station in Nottingham firebombed.   :014:

Massive police station, literally next door to the fire station. On the public walk way towards St. Anne's which is a shite hole.

It is such a pity that it has taken disorder on such a scale to make the politicians, and I mean ALL across the spectrum, understand that to effectively police England, you need a sizable number of Police Officers, and the decreases, political interference and constraints placed on the service over the past 30 years need to be addressed.

My only hope is that once this has all finished, and life is back to 'normal' that this won't be forgotten, and not only will the Police numbers be addressed, but the whole societal reasons for this disorder. It's a hard lesson to learn, but perhaps it might just be worth it in the end. Now is the time for the population to contact their various elected persons and tell them to get it sorted.

 Undoubtedly the courts and the Politicians must find a way to treat kiddies who cause mayhem in a comminuty the way they would treat an adult. For too long we have had a law that has said if you are young enough you can get away with murder.

We must never allow the Police the freedom to make the mistakes of the past. YES THEY DO AND DID MAKE MISTAKES. But once the Police are allowed back on the streets and away from the form filling regime they have at the moment. Then the road to conviction must be made easier for offences like thuggery.

The looters better beware... My mum is on the warpath.

I spoke with her yesterday as she lives in Blackheath. It would appear that some of the yoof turned over a couple of shops in the village. That has really got her back up, not to mention those of her neighbours. If she sees a hoody she'll crown them with her crutch.

GO MUM!

Prisons need to be harder at a young age and more solitary, so they are less likely to come out knowing more criminal knowledge than when they went in. Feltham doesn't seem to deter these kids.

Quote from: Burt on August 10, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
The looters better beware... My mum is on the warpath.

I spoke with her yesterday as she lives in Blackheath. It would appear that some of the yoof turned over a couple of shops in the village. That has really got her back up, not to mention those of her neighbours. If she sees a hoody she'll crown them with her crutch.

GO MUM!

Spent a lot of time in Blackheath and very fond of the area (particularly The Crown boozer). However don't see the locals defending the area 'Millwall style' as the Cherry Boys from up the road in Charlton are probably busy rioting..

Quote from: Mitch on August 10, 2011, 01:16:28 PM
Prisons need to be harder at a young age and more solitary, so they are less likely to come out knowing more criminal knowledge than when they went in. Feltham doesn't seem to deter these kids.

My mate did some work there as a plumber, got abuse everywhere he went,although he was there to help them get hot water back,  told me that it is like walking into an amusement arcade.

That's the thing, we need to keep the idiots away from other idiots, otherwise the idiocy just spreads. Appreicate that means bigger prisons and more money though. It'd also need more staffing and teaching.

Quote from: Vinnieffc on August 10, 2011, 01:22:08 PM

Quote from: Burt on August 10, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
The looters better beware... My mum is on the warpath.

I spoke with her yesterday as she lives in Blackheath. It would appear that some of the yoof turned over a couple of shops in the village. That has really got her back up, not to mention those of her neighbours. If she sees a hoody she'll crown them with her crutch.

GO MUM!

Spent a lot of time in Blackheath and very fond of the area (particularly The Crown boozer). However don't see the locals defending the area 'Millwall style' as the Cherry Boys from up the road in Charlton are probably busy rioting..

Have to agree with you Mr Vinnie sir.

It has caused a lot of shock however as it is generally a low crime area. This is probably the biggest incident to hit the village since my sister (a no-nonsense prison officer) decked someone in the local boozer 20 years or so ago.

As there are limited prison cells available they should be made to join the army for a year or two - that'll sort them out! They think they are so 'ard' in their little crews - they won't be so cocky in the barracks!!

How about if your convicted of looting or any similar type mayhem, in addition to any punishment imposed, you and maybe your family lose your ability to get any financial assistance from the government (including housing).  Probably more likely than cutting off hands.

Quote from: BestOfBrede on August 10, 2011, 01:40:09 PM
As there are limited prison cells available they should be made to join the army for a year or two - that'll sort them out! They think they are so 'ard' in their little crews - they won't be so cocky in the barracks!!

Why should we put the pressure on the army professionals though? Providing we dont send them out to war zones and we increase defence funding then maybe, but to have these guys on the front line would do nothing, but increase the risk our troops already face.

My mate's brother holding the thin blue line in West Brom last night - at one point half a dozen of them stuck between 30 rioters and a row of exploding cars but charged them away. Not over up there but London should be OK now.

Quote from: Mitch on August 10, 2011, 01:59:54 PM

Quote from: BestOfBrede on August 10, 2011, 01:40:09 PM
As there are limited prison cells available they should be made to join the army for a year or two - that'll sort them out! They think they are so 'ard' in their little crews - they won't be so cocky in the barracks!!

Why should we put the pressure on the army professionals though? Providing we dont send them out to war zones and we increase defence funding then maybe, but to have these guys on the front line would do nothing, but increase the risk our troops already face.

That's what I was thinking - put them through the rigorous training etc but always with the plan that they will not become full time soldiers unless they show real promise and want it. After the 1-2 years that the judge gives them they are released, hopefully as better people with respect for others.

Sign here http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337 (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337)

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 01:46:46 PM
How about if your convicted of looting or any similar type mayhem, in addition to any punishment imposed, you and maybe your family lose your ability to get any financial assistance from the government (including housing).  Probably more likely than cutting off hands.

...trouble is that no cash leads to more muggings and looting. Bleeding heart types will take pity on them and lobbying will start for a better deal.......A change of attitude is needed, not by "trying to see their point of view" and counselling them, but by imprisoning these vermin for a long time until they show some change...this protects the decent side of society in the meantime.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting)


http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/08/10/do-budget-cuts-cause-more-riots/ (http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/08/10/do-budget-cuts-cause-more-riots/)

Quote from: ron on August 10, 2011, 02:54:44 PM

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 01:46:46 PM
How about if your convicted of looting or any similar type mayhem, in addition to any punishment imposed, you and maybe your family lose your ability to get any financial assistance from the government (including housing).  Probably more likely than cutting off hands.

...trouble is that no cash leads to more muggings and looting. Bleeding heart types will take pity on them and lobbying will start for a better deal.......A change of attitude is needed, not by "trying to see their point of view" and counselling them, but by imprisoning these vermin for a long time until they show some change...this protects the decent side of society in the meantime.

Agree stopping the benefits would not work, they need to Put the Worthless Dogs Down :028:

Quote from: JBH on August 10, 2011, 03:03:27 PM

Quote from: ron on August 10, 2011, 02:54:44 PM

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 01:46:46 PM
How about if your convicted of looting or any similar type mayhem, in addition to any punishment imposed, you and maybe your family lose your ability to get any financial assistance from the government (including housing).  Probably more likely than cutting off hands.

...trouble is that no cash leads to more muggings and looting. Bleeding heart types will take pity on them and lobbying will start for a better deal.......A change of attitude is needed, not by "trying to see their point of view" and counselling them, but by imprisoning these vermin for a long time until they show some change...this protects the decent side of society in the meantime.

Agree stopping the benefits would not work, they need to Put the Worthless Dogs Down :028:

So theft becomes a capital crime? poo - I better give those pint glasses I've pinched over the years back.

reactionary measures is exactly what this situation needs. if they loose their benefits all our problems will be fixed

Agree stopping the benefits would not work, they need to Put the Worthless Dogs Down :028:
[/quote]

So theft becomes a capital crime? sh1t - I better give those pint glasses I've pinched over the years back.
[/quote]


Tell me when you stole the glasses did you:

1. Smash up some innocent persons business
2. Throw bricks at the Fire and Ambulance services when they were trying to do their job
3. Terrorise Old people, woman and children to the point that they now won't leave the house

I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

who's going to want to move to some of these areas as well, house price drop to be larger than elsewhere but good for other areas.

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

Actually, I believe the bill will be sent to The Bill.

It's a Victorian law that deals with riots - if the police things get out of control, they pay for it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/8690876/UK-riots-insurers-will-pay-claims-then-recover-money-from-the-police.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/8690876/UK-riots-insurers-will-pay-claims-then-recover-money-from-the-police.html)

UK riots: insurers 'will pay claims then recover money from the police'
Britain's police forces could face a bill for tens of millions of pounds from insurance companies because property was damaged in the rioting while the "police effectively failed to keep law and order".

Grahame Trudgill, the head of corporate affairs for the British Insurance Brokers' Association (Biba), said insurance companies had the right to reclaim the money under the Riot Damages Act of 1886.

Quote from: Lork on August 10, 2011, 03:12:38 PM
reactionary measures is exactly what this situation needs. if they loose their benefits all our problems will be fixed

I believe in the welfare state but we really need to make people pay for it/earn it in someway.
There are plenty of jobs than need doing in every area. If your claiming and fit enough then here's set of tools, go clean that wall, cut that grass, fill that hole in etc etc.
You know what every registered claimant in each of the areas hit should be told to turn up and help with the clean up. Yes 99% of them are innocent in it but my god those who caused the trouble would soon have the finger pointed at them then and we can use the law to deal with them.

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 03:33:03 PM

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

Actually, I believe the bill will be sent to The Bill.

It's a Victorian law that deals with riots - if the police things get out of control, they pay for it.

This will bankrupt them. The damage is going ot be in the hundreds of millions of pounds.

Quote from: JBH on August 10, 2011, 03:17:55 PM
Agree stopping the benefits would not work, they need to Put the Worthless Dogs Down :028:

So theft becomes a capital crime? sh1t - I better give those pint glasses I've pinched over the years back.
[/quote]


Tell me when you stole the glasses did you:

1. Smash up some innocent persons business
2. Throw bricks at the Fire and Ambulance services when they were trying to do their job
3. Terrorise Old people, woman and children to the point that they now won't leave the house
[/quote]

[joke]
Yes! Notice I haven't been posting much during the nights of rioting?  
:028:
[/joke]

I don't think these crimes should be worthy of execution. I assume that if theft, vandalism and assault are worthy of execution, than the copper who shot and killed a man should be executed too?

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:36:16 PM

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 03:33:03 PM

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

Actually, I believe the bill will be sent to The Bill.

It's a Victorian law that deals with riots - if the police things get out of control, they pay for it.

This will bankrupt them. The damage is going ot be in the hundreds of millions of pounds.

The police estimate £200 million.

The Victorian law requires police authorities to pay for damage incurred by rioting. A spokesman for the Association of Police Authorities told Public Finance that authorities could be liable for £200m in damage claims.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2011/08/police-should-not-have-to-pay-for-riot-damage/ (http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2011/08/police-should-not-have-to-pay-for-riot-damage/)

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 03:42:30 PM

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:36:16 PM

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 03:33:03 PM

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

Actually, I believe the bill will be sent to The Bill.

It's a Victorian law that deals with riots - if the police things get out of control, they pay for it.

This will bankrupt them. The damage is going ot be in the hundreds of millions of pounds.

The police estimate £200 million.

The Victorian law requires police authorities to pay for damage incurred by rioting. A spokesman for the Association of Police Authorities told Public Finance that authorities could be liable for £200m in damage claims.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2011/08/police-should-not-have-to-pay-for-riot-damage/ (http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2011/08/police-should-not-have-to-pay-for-riot-damage/)

Hopefully while the authorities fight out whos going to be paying the reimbursements, they dont lose sight of the small business owners who counting the minutes until they are paid.

This is a long thread! Can we talk about women under 40 again please?

Get Coat gif

Just to keep within the boundaries of this topic, I see that an e-petition has been created requesting that benefits be withdrawn from anyone charged for rioting / looting offences. Pretty bloody good idea if you ask me.

So... I have long had social debates with my mates who are all very well educated and certainly on the more conservative side... I have always been a very liberal person and believe that everyone deserves a fair chance...

However living in a town like Atlanta for the past 10 years has greatly changed the way I view the classes of people... obviously Atlanta is a black haven in the South but there are plenty of lower income whites as well...

A lot of my opinions on these issues have been completely reshaped by Charles Murray... the infamous co-author of The Bell Curve... Obviously it was a controversial book because it seemed to allude that intelligence levels and race often have a distinct correlation... I don't want to come anywhere close to being labeled a "scientific racist" so I won't tread to far on that portion of the topic but in recent light of the Atlanta Public Schools cheating scandal I went out and read Murrays other book and I think he is dead on... We as a society need to stop thinking that everyone is created equal... the fact is, intelligence is not the same for everyone and there is a direct correlation between intelligence and what social class you end up in for the most part... Now obviously social factors have something to do with it as well but it seems very clear to me that poor people are just dumber in general... I am sorry if that offends anyone on here but it seems like the elephant in the room...

Here is the wikipedia snippet about Murray's book on education... "Real Education"

Murray has been critical of the No Child Left Behind law, arguing that it "set a goal that was devoid of any contact with reality. ... The United States Congress, acting with large bipartisan majorities, at the urging of the President, enacted as the law of the land that all children are to be above average."[19] He sees the law an example of "Educational romanticism [which] asks too much from students at the bottom of the intellectual pile, asks the wrong things from those in the middle, and asks too little from those at the top."[19]
Challenging "educational romanticism" he wrote Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing America's Schools Back to Reality. His "four simple truths" are"
1. "Ability varies."
2. "Half of the children are below average."
3. "Too many people are going to college."
4. "America's future depends on how we educate the academically gifted."[20]

The New York Times interviewer Deborah Solomon gave an example (of what Murray calls "educational romanticism") when she said "I believe that given the opportunity, most people could do most anything." Murray responded "You're out of touch with reality in that regard."

...The Mods are watching this thread, if you disagree with any statements then back your arguements with facts rather than personal abuse - we are all Fulham fans and should not resort to the level of discussion of most of the rioters...

[/glow]

I don't know how true this is but I really hope it is but I just heard the following:

2 Black Youths broke into a shop in North London on Sat night with the intent of looting it but they were not expecting it to have 4 Kosovon men inside 2 of which owned the store.

The first youth apparently got mouthy so 2 of the men grabbed him a proceded to break both of his arms in more than one place, the 2nd youth decided to leg it but was also grabbed and as he tried to run away they broke both of his legs and then both of his arms.

They were then apparently thrown into the alley way at the side of the property where they were told to put the word out that if any other looters tried to rob anywhere else in the immediate vicinity of the shop then they wouldn't get their arms boken they would get them cut off.

Also the police are aware what happened but turned ablind eye. 065.gif

Paralytic Western Society
August 9, 2011 1:03 P.M.
By Victor Davis Hanson   

It is fascinating to see how postmodern Western societies react to wide-scale rioting, looting, and thuggery aimed at innocents. In Britain, politicians contemplate the use of water cannons as if they were nuclear weapons; and here the mayor of Philadelphia calls on rappers to appeal to youth to help ease the flash-mobbing that has a clear racial component to it (is the attorney general's Civil Rights Division investigating?). His appeal is perhaps understandable, but many of the themes of rap music — violence against the police, racial chauvinism, and nihilism—may well be some of the cultural catalysts behind the flash violence, though to suggest as much would be seen as more racist than the racist profiling used by the flash beaters. All these incidents are symptomatic of a general breakdown and loss of confidence in Western society. Such urban violence was of course a constant in 19th- and 20th-century Europe and America, but now it is deeply embedded within modern sociology and no longer seen quite as criminality.

We seem able to admit that massive federal and state entitlements have created a sense of dependency, a loss of self-respect and initiative, and a breakdown of the family, yet we still seem to fear that trimming the subsidies would lead to some sort of cold-turkey hyper-reaction. We assume that society is to blame for disaffected youth and therefore are hesitant to use commensurate force to quell the violence or even to make it clear that perpetrators are responsible for their own conduct. Yet at some point — when the violence reaches middle-class communities or, in serial fashion, downtown or suburban stores — we likewise assume that sufficient force will be used. Sociological exegesis will go out the window. Reality has a way of dispelling such cognitive luxuries.

On the national level, this sad paralysis, this Hamlet disease, is reflected in calls for more spending and stimulus even as we concede that we have no plan or ability to pay back the massive and unsustainable debt we've already run up. The president's Keynesian technocrats, to whom he outsourced economic policy, have all quit or been fired, or are contemplating leaving soon. He is left fearing that the usual progressive stimulants — near-zero interest, massive federal borrowing, increases in unemployment insurance and food stamps, public works projects, middle-class tax holidays — have not worked, and yet he cannot imagine assuming responsibility, taking the heat, and trying something different. We can't decide whether the Libyan rebels are noble reformers or — as we learn more and more that Gaddafi's mercenary forces are as tough as many warned — incompetent and worse, so we sorta bomb, sorta not, sorta follow the French, sorta not. In other words, lancing these boils is seen as worse that letting the boils grow, so on matters of debt and foreign policy, for now we do nothing, though we know that at some point nature will take its course in the form of financial insolvency and humiliating defeat. Then our post facto recriminations will be even more acrimonious than our present loud inaction. We are left with the Roman maxim of the remedies seen as worse than the disease.

The simplest way to stop this is just to set up an L-shaped ambush outside each Footlocker with the killzone right outside the entrance.

That should literally take good care of it. If done correctly there will be no survivors.  :028:

Quote from: finnster01 on August 10, 2011, 04:41:28 PM
The simplest way to stop this is just to set up an L-shaped ambush outside each Footlocker with the killzone right outside the entrance.

That should literally take good care of it. If done correctly there will be no survivors.  :028:

Now why can't the Police think like that, it would save the taxpayers millions both now and also in future benefit payments.  :54:

Quote from: MJG on August 10, 2011, 02:47:23 PM
Sign here http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337 (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337)

I like this.

Anyone convicted gets their benefits cut.

"Any persons convicted of criminal acts during the current London riots should have all financial benefits removed. No tax payer should have to contribute to those who have destroyed property, stolen from their community and shown a disregard for the country that provides for them".

The saddest thing I heard was the chairman of the Reeves furniture store that got burnt down in Croydon.

He was interviewed on Radio 4 last night and said his business had been through two world wars, the great depression etc. and survived for 130 years only to be destroyed in a matter of minutes by some mindless morons.

My heart went out to him.

He's 80 years old, and doesn't deserve this.

A few thoughts..

Are vigilantes really going to make this situation any better? I'm sure the Millwall fans "protecting" Eltham are completely unconnected with the mass brawls when Millwall played West Ham or the numerous other occasions when Millwall kick off. I'm also sure that they have no affiliations with the English defence league/BNP that are well represented in the Eltham and Welling areas but if they were would you still be happy for them to be taking the law into their own hands?

Is cutting off peoples benefits really going to improve the situation or do you not think this might give them something to genuinely be angry about or at best encourage more theft/benefit fraud.

How do you think the government should punish people like this? Every police cell in London was full on Monday with more people being shipped out to the home counties. Do you jail them and create a bigger prison bill and then have the continued risk of them re-offending on release (has priosn ever cured anyone?) or should there be community service punishments with the victims having their property repaired by the rioters and havethem pay it back proportionally from their benefits?

Lastly how would you feel if the government did bring in curfews for children uner 18, troops on the street and shoot first ask questions later policies? Would you feel safer or would you feel intimidated? Would you want your kids to grow up in that environment or would you want to keep living in London? I for one would never carry anything home from Argos again.

Quote from: Jimpav on August 10, 2011, 05:03:17 PM

Lastly how would you feel if the government did bring in curfews for children uner 18, troops on the street and shoot first ask questions later policies? Would you feel safer or would you feel intimidated? Would you want your kids to grow up in that environment or would you want to keep living in London? I for one would never carry anything home from Argos again.

Jimpav if the parents of these youths brought them up properly then none of this would be necessary.

What they need to do is to say to the powers that be that they are happy for their sibblings to be punished when need be by the teachers at school and Police outside school hours and not complain when there little Jesmond / Kyle has been given a good clip around the ear or 2 hours of detention.

It worked for generations past and can work again, yes its not fool proof but it did work trust me, the problem is there are to many Liberal dogooders in this country screaming about Human Rights, well I would like to ask them what about the rights of the people that these thugs (and thats what they are) are violating.

Quote from: JBH on August 10, 2011, 05:20:15 PM

Quote from: Jimpav on August 10, 2011, 05:03:17 PM

Lastly how would you feel if the government did bring in curfews for children uner 18, troops on the street and shoot first ask questions later policies? Would you feel safer or would you feel intimidated? Would you want your kids to grow up in that environment or would you want to keep living in London? I for one would never carry anything home from Argos again.

Jimpav if the parents of these youths brought them up properly then none of this would be necessary.

What they need to do is to say to the powers that be that they are happy for their sibblings to be punished when need be by the teachers at school and Police outside school hours and not complain when there little Jesmond / Kyle has been given a good clip around the ear or 2 hours of detention.

It worked for generations past and can work again, yes its not fool proof but it did work trust me, the problem is there are to many Liberal dogooders in this country screaming about Human Rights, well I would like to ask them what about the rights of the people that these thugs (and thats what they are) are violating.

I agree that this seems to be a big factor ine the riots JBH but it is a grey area. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the "anarchists" kicking off at the student protests recently were bought up exceptionally well, are intelligent and have had a privileged up bringing.

I think that crowd/herd mentaility combined with blanket media coverage has played the biggest part in these riots, . Had the looters had in Tottenham not given a very public demonstration on how easy it is to loot it might not have had such a tinderbox effect. This is not an excuse because you obviously need to be an idiot to get involved but it's taken minimal encouragement.

Officers from Salford City Council and its housing provider, Salix Homes, are reviewing CCTV images to see if they can help identify any of the offenders, with threats to evict tenants if they are found to have been involved. Council leader John Merry says people needed to understand their actions had consequences and "anyone who can do this to their own city is not welcome in Salford".

With all the talk about Football in London possibly being postponed at the weekend has anyone considered calling off The Notting Hill carnival this year, might be a lively affair!

Quote from: sid far i on August 10, 2011, 05:45:45 PM
With all the talk about Football in London possibly being postponed at the weekend has anyone considered calling off The Notting Hill carnival this year, might be a lively affair!

Good point, but I doubt it because it may offend certain people and cause them to riot fp.gif

Quote from: sid far i on August 10, 2011, 05:45:45 PM
With all the talk about Football in London possibly being postponed at the weekend has anyone considered calling off The Notting Hill carnival this year, might be a lively affair!

When is it meant to be happening?

Quote from: Burt on August 10, 2011, 05:49:27 PM

Quote from: sid far i on August 10, 2011, 05:45:45 PM
With all the talk about Football in London possibly being postponed at the weekend has anyone considered calling off The Notting Hill carnival this year, might be a lively affair!

When is it meant to be happening?

Bank Holiday week-end 27 - 29 Aug

If you take housing or any other  benefits away from anybody convicted in the riots. What will happen to them? We will still end up having to find a way of feeding them and housing them because they will still commit crime because they will feel disenfranchised or whatever the excuse is. To earn they will not find a job so one will have to found for them. How can they afford their Blackcurrents and Skyfy and Holidays abroad, the poor darlings?

Could we not simply give a small injection and let them drift away. Give us all a break. Or is that too much?

We'll see the usual footage of a copper dancing to a steel band, somebody kissing another one while wearing his hat and the press will make a comment about how relations have improved.

What bastard burns down the burger van?

(http://static.bbc.co.uk/wwhomepage-3.5/ic/news/304-171/54528000/jpg/_54528491_012629799-1.jpg)

Just seen a fat cow defending the kids to a man who had his shop wrecked by them. She told him he dont know what ee was talkin abat and to jog on.

Is it not time to humanely put these people down. Think of the money we could save. Forget about taking housing benefits away from them. Some of these people are sub human. Come on, lets do the humane thing. For all of us.

Vote for the Lighthouse solution.

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 10, 2011, 06:11:03 PM
Just seen a fat cow defending the kids to a man who had his shop wrecked by them. She told him he dont know what ee was talkin abat and to jog on.

Is it not time to humanely put these people down. Think of the money we could save. Forget about taking housing benefits away from them. Some of these people are sub human. Come on, lets do the humane thing. For all of us.

Vote for the Lighthouse solution.

A Modest Proposal.... :023:

First person in the dock at Highbury this morning was a 31-year-old teacher. Pleaded guilty to looting Richer Sounds in Croydon.

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 10, 2011, 06:11:03 PM
Just seen a fat cow defending the kids to a man who had his shop wrecked by them. She told him he dont know what ee was talkin abat and to jog on.

Is it not time to humanely put these people down. Think of the money we could save. Forget about taking housing benefits away from them. Some of these people are sub human. Come on, lets do the humane thing. For all of us.

Vote for the Lighthouse solution.

It would be an ideal solution but it just ain't going to happen. Nor will benefits be withdrawn. Boot camp would help and is politically feasible; give the scum some discipline, a really tough time. Hopefully tough enough so they don't want another dose.

Quote from: White Noise on August 10, 2011, 06:21:58 PM
First person in the dock at Highbury this morning was a 31-year-old teacher. Pleaded guilty to looting Richer Sounds in Croydon.

SACK him NOW

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 10, 2011, 06:11:03 PM
Just seen a fat cow defending the kids to a man who had his shop wrecked by them. She told him he dont know what ee was talkin abat and to jog on.

Is it not time to humanely put these people down. Think of the money we could save. Forget about taking housing benefits away from them. Some of these people are sub human. Come on, lets do the humane thing. For all of us.

Vote for the Lighthouse solution.

You Have my Vote 096.gig

As the Governments in word is Robust. Has anybody heard what they mean by robust policeing. Teresa May keeps saying it, David Cameron is now saying it and Boris is also saying it. So, as they do not wish to elaborate, what do you all think that it means? Also, whilst we are on about the Government, they still insist that the proposed police cuts will go ahead. Is that sensible?

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 10, 2011, 06:11:03 PM
Just seen a fat cow defending the kids to a man who had his shop wrecked by them. She told him he dont know what ee was talkin abat and to jog on.

Is it not time to humanely put these people down. Think of the money we could save. Forget about taking housing benefits away from them. Some of these people are sub human. Come on, lets do the humane thing. For all of us.

Vote for the Lighthouse solution.

She's sitting at home now watching herself on 50 inch flat screen, with a new xbox ready to go while her new footwear allowed her to give her bone idle kids a kick up the arse and told them to go down the local shop and get her a pack of 20.

 :016: ".........and get her a pack of 20".


Seems like it's a shame nobody got her a pack of three a few years back .

...assuming they were her kids of course.

Quote from: ron on August 10, 2011, 06:45:23 PM
:016: ".........and get her a pack of 20".


Seems like it's a shame nobody got her a pack of three a few years back .

...assuming they were her kids of course.

they were her kids with three different fathers I suspect.

It is interesting that not one shop or business on Green Lanes ( Between Turnpike Lane and Dalston ) have been touched.  Freddy's  your favourite Kebab Shop is safe.
( For those of you who do not know the area  : The ' business people'  who operate there,  are not to be trifled  with  to do so might ( will most definitely )  result with more than led in you pencil.  
The Yoffes  clearly know this and staying away

Ashley Road Depo in Tottenham Hale The bin collection centre ..............was attacked last night.  Three bin lorrys were burned and they had also  just taken delivery of two brand new gritters and they also  went up in smoke well.  
Wait till the winter ( or the next bin collection)

Quote from: White Noise on August 10, 2011, 06:21:58 PM
First person in the dock at Highbury this morning was a 31-year-old teacher. Pleaded guilty to looting Richer Sounds in Croydon.

Teaching Assistant, I think. And he'll be out on his a**e. All school workers are required to have clean CRBs and he just dirtied his.

.... assuming they were her kids of course

She 's waiting for the results of  a DNA  test to prove she is the mother

Quote from: SP3 on August 10, 2011, 06:58:21 PM

Quote from: White Noise on August 10, 2011, 06:21:58 PM
First person in the dock at Highbury this morning was a 31-year-old teacher. Pleaded guilty to looting Richer Sounds in Croydon.

I blame the long school holidays  Get Coat gif

I was speaking to a nice young man  who works in the Customer Services in Haringey, he lives off Mayer Street in Hackney and does voluntary outreach work with teenagers in Enfield. He had a bit of trouble with the police in Hackney last night as he wanted to get his car and go to Enfield,  but once they checked him out they gave him a escort to the A12
I asked him why were young kids 14/15 out on the streets after 9 o'clock at night.
   
He said most of these parent are kids ( mentally and practically)  themselves and particularly as its the holidays
the offsprings staying out is viewed as a good thing as they do not have to feed them.
   087.gif costs apparently.
He rounded up his charges and took them home and gave the parents a good talking to  ...
he said it was like watching water go down the plughole ...............nothing registered.

This pretty much says it all:

"In his coffee shop in Stoke Newington, Karagoz tried to explain another feature of these riots – why Turkish and Kurdish youths had generally not joined the looting.

"We have businesses and work hard for what we have. As parents we want our children to work, earn money and be able to buy what they want, not steal it. Our young people know we would be ashamed of them if they were doing this."

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 07:51:12 PM
This pretty much says it all:

"In his coffee shop in Stoke Newington, Karagoz tried to explain another feature of these riots – why Turkish and Kurdish youths had generally not joined the looting.

"We have businesses and work hard for what we have. As parents we want our children to work, earn money and be able to buy what they want, not steal it. Our young people know we would be ashamed of them if they were doing this."

Exactly why I'm in favour of allowing the immigration of people with the drive, guts and determination to want to bunk into the country. It's the wastes of space who were born here (whatever colour they are) I'd want to ship out.

If only we still owned Australia. We could dust off the transportation policy.

Quote from: The Bronsons on August 10, 2011, 08:06:25 PM

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 07:51:12 PM
This pretty much says it all:

"In his coffee shop in Stoke Newington, Karagoz tried to explain another feature of these riots – why Turkish and Kurdish youths had generally not joined the looting.

"We have businesses and work hard for what we have. As parents we want our children to work, earn money and be able to buy what they want, not steal it. Our young people know we would be ashamed of them if they were doing this."

Exactly why I'm in favour of allowing the immigration of people with the drive, guts and determination to want to bunk into the country. It's the wastes of space who were born here (whatever colour they are) I'd want to ship out.

If only we still owned Australia. We could dust off the transportation policy.

Should we add a caveat to our national immigration policy? Doesn't matter when you came here, doesn't matter why you came here - if you are convicted of crime we'll mark you 'Return to Sender' and get rid.

Of course I suspect the vast majority of the rioters were born here, so in this instance it would only be a small deterrent. I like the idea of transportation, but I favour it being to somewhere less tolerant - like North Korea.

Well, I recognize the need to blow off steam here, and I recognize that -- inevitably -- this steam comes in the form of "them and us" and a fairly clear indication of just who the "them" is. What I'm also seeing is that I must have had horrible parents and parenting myself, seeing as how I am -- evidently -- the only FofF poster who EVER ran the streets at night, who EVER got into fights while doing so, and who EVER caused a bit of damage to property in the process. Everyone who has ever gotten into a bit of a rumble knows that whether it remained small or blew into something requiring a lot of poliice intervention wasn't down to the choice of any one individual involved. These things tend to blow up.

Either I must be the only "us" who has ever so transgressed in his youth, or perhaps I'm actually a "them."

Please, y'all continue to blow off steam -- even those who evidently prefer an England manned at night by fully armed police with "shoot-to-kill" guidance. I'm going to give this thread a permanent rest. There's just only so much hate I can put up with.

Here's hoping that none of you is negatively affected by this senseless lawlessness, and that it ends soon. I'm gone.

Quote from: The Bronsons on August 10, 2011, 08:06:25 PM

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 07:51:12 PM
This pretty much says it all:

"In his coffee shop in Stoke Newington, Karagoz tried to explain another feature of these riots – why Turkish and Kurdish youths had generally not joined the looting.

"We have businesses and work hard for what we have. As parents we want our children to work, earn money and be able to buy what they want, not steal it. Our young people know we would be ashamed of them if they were doing this."

They weren't rioting because they dont want to draw attention to their Herion trafficking, i'd guess 90% of Englands smack is brought in by the "business men" in Green Lanes.
Exactly why I'm in favour of allowing the immigration of people with the drive, guts and determination to want to bunk into the country. It's the wastes of space who were born here (whatever colour they are) I'd want to ship out.

If only we still owned Australia. We could dust off the transportation policy.

Oh and i cant fill up my petrol cans, i've got about enough left for two or three gardens  :014:

Quote from: HatterDon on August 10, 2011, 08:49:26 PM
Well, I recognize the need to blow off steam here, and I recognize that -- inevitably -- this steam comes in the form of "them and us" and a fairly clear indication of just who the "them" is. What I'm also seeing is that I must have had horrible parents and parenting myself, seeing as how I am -- evidently -- the only FofF poster who EVER ran the streets at night, who EVER got into fights while doing so, and who EVER caused a bit of damage to property in the process. Everyone who has ever gotten into a bit of a rumble knows that whether it remained small or blew into something requiring a lot of poliice intervention wasn't down to the choice of any one individual involved. These things tend to blow up.

Either I must be the only "us" who has ever so transgressed in his youth, or perhaps I'm actually a "them."

Please, y'all continue to blow off steam -- even those who evidently prefer an England manned at night by fully armed police with "shoot-to-kill" guidance. I'm going to give this thread a permanent rest. There's just only so much hate I can put up with.

Here's hoping that none of you is negatively affected by this senseless lawlessness, and that it ends soon. I'm gone.

There is trangressing as you put it and total mindless lawless looting and rioting, if you have been involved in the later then you like the youths over the past few nights are a waste of skin.

Having a ruck is part of growing up, setting buildings on fire, looting shops and scaring Old people sensless is totally unacceptable

So which were you an adolesant youth or a total thug?

Quote from: HatterDon on August 10, 2011, 08:49:26 PM
Well, I recognize the need to blow off steam here, and I recognize that -- inevitably -- this steam comes in the form of "them and us" and a fairly clear indication of just who the "them" is. What I'm also seeing is that I must have had horrible parents and parenting myself, seeing as how I am -- evidently -- the only FofF poster who EVER ran the streets at night, who EVER got into fights while doing so, and who EVER caused a bit of damage to property in the process. Everyone who has ever gotten into a bit of a rumble knows that whether it remained small or blew into something requiring a lot of poliice intervention wasn't down to the choice of any one individual involved. These things tend to blow up.

Either I must be the only "us" who has ever so transgressed in his youth, or perhaps I'm actually a "them."

Please, y'all continue to blow off steam -- even those who evidently prefer an England manned at night by fully armed police with "shoot-to-kill" guidance. I'm going to give this thread a permanent rest. There's just only so much hate I can put up with.

Here's hoping that none of you is negatively affected by this senseless lawlessness, and that it ends soon. I'm gone.

HD... I am certain that plenty of us were involved in late night mischief in our day but I really doubt that anyone on here ever fire-bombed someone's little shop in our very own communities or just busted through the window and willingly stole $100s to $1000s of dollars worth of goods... Intelligent and involved parents rarely have children that do major crimes like this...

I fully agree that a good bit of this is, "my mate is doing it and I can't be the only sissy of the bunch" but I can guarantee that my parents would have been unbearably ashamed of me whereas it seems that the parents of these kids could care less...

@JBH
@mccscratch

HatterDon clearly isn't arguing that it's OK what these kids are doing. He's saying that as idiotic youngsters (i.e. most of us young people) most people tend to do stupid things and let events get carried away from us. Because they're young and stupid. I'm sure we can all sympathise with this (not with rioting, but with doing wrong things that we later regret).

For that reason, he argues, it wouldn't be a very nice world we lived in if to prevent youngsters doing silly things, we were to live in a police state in which a para-military police shot transgressors on sight. A world with execution without trial, basically. That's what he's saying.

(I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth, but I'm also sure he'd argue that it wouldn't be a very nice world to live in if the crimes of youth were punishable by death).

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 09:31:15 PM
@JBH
@mccscratch

HatterDon clearly isn't arguing that it's OK what these kids are doing. He's saying that as idiotic youngsters (i.e. most of us young people) most people tend to do stupid things and let events get carried away from us. Because they're young and stupid. I'm sure we can all sympathise with this (not with rioting, but with doing wrong things that we later regret).

For that reason, he argues, it wouldn't be a very nice world we lived in if to prevent youngsters doing silly things, we were to live in a police state in which a para-military police shot transgressors on sight. A world with execution without trial, basically. That's what he's saying.

(I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth, but I'm also sure he'd argue that it wouldn't be a very nice world to live in if the crimes of youth were punishable by death).

Yes but there is being stupid and being dangerous, these wankers are the later and the fact that they are a bunch of thickies doesn't make them poor misguided youths their actions over the past few nights make them criminals who need a serious jolt of reality prehaps the way forward is to bring back Borstals? or would that also be against their human rights.

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 03:33:03 PM

Quote from: clintclintdeuce on August 10, 2011, 03:26:25 PM
I think I would be shorting London insurance companies right now. There the ones ultimately going to be responsible for the damage and theft to these storefronts, burnt up autos, and damaged buildings. Can you imagine how much theyre going to end up paying out? Just hope the small shops were able to stay current with their premiums beforehand.

And in the intermediate term, once things get back to normal, whos going to be buying goods in these areas? There going to be a steep drop in demand. Hopefully the shop owners are able to keep afloat for a few months after this.

Actually, I believe the bill will be sent to The Bill.

It's a Victorian law that deals with riots - if the police things get out of control, they pay for it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/8690876/UK-riots-insurers-will-pay-claims-then-recover-money-from-the-police.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/8690876/UK-riots-insurers-will-pay-claims-then-recover-money-from-the-police.html)

UK riots: insurers 'will pay claims then recover money from the police'
Britain's police forces could face a bill for tens of millions of pounds from insurance companies because property was damaged in the rioting while the "police effectively failed to keep law and order".

Grahame Trudgill, the head of corporate affairs for the British Insurance Brokers' Association (Biba), said insurance companies had the right to reclaim the money under the Riot Damages Act of 1886.

Unfortunately they didn't actually tell the whole story .. as this act was amended by the Police Act 1964, which appears to indicate the the local council would be considered the 'Compensation Authority' in cases where ' in relation to a district for which the police authority is a committee of the council of a county or borough, that council;' Thus, it may indicate that where the local council is the Police Authority committee, which I believe is the case in some boroughs, then the money might be coming out of their coffers.

In either case, whether the initial point of payment is supposed to be the Police Authority or the district Receiver, it is the taxpayers that will be made to pay.

Quote from: HatterDon on August 10, 2011, 08:49:26 PM
Well, I recognize the need to blow off steam here, and I recognize that -- inevitably -- this steam comes in the form of "them and us" and a fairly clear indication of just who the "them" is. What I'm also seeing is that I must have had horrible parents and parenting myself, seeing as how I am -- evidently -- the only FofF poster who EVER ran the streets at night, who EVER got into fights while doing so, and who EVER caused a bit of damage to property in the process. Everyone who has ever gotten into a bit of a rumble knows that whether it remained small or blew into something requiring a lot of poliice intervention wasn't down to the choice of any one individual involved. These things tend to blow up.

Either I must be the only "us" who has ever so transgressed in his youth, or perhaps I'm actually a "them."

Please, y'all continue to blow off steam -- even those who evidently prefer an England manned at night by fully armed police with "shoot-to-kill" guidance. I'm going to give this thread a permanent rest. There's just only so much hate I can put up with.

Here's hoping that none of you is negatively affected by this senseless lawlessness, and that it ends soon. I'm gone.

I think this article sums up best the difference between the young & dumb HD of yesteryear and the yobs of today:

Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html)

I am in Mr. Hatter's camp. Enough is enough. I have to say however, that it wasn't just a ruck back in the day, nor was it thickies. Back in the 60s the mods v rockers, some really nasty stuff went on. Seaside towns smashed and boarded up. Running battles with police etc. I and many of my friends were there. Today, those same mates run their own businesses and work at regular jobs.(The film, quadrophenia, based in Brighton on a bank holiday week-end, I was there :028:) Now if you add the fact that life was good and we had nothing to complain about, brings what we did into perspective compared to kids today who have no future.

We really did do it for no good reason whatsoever. OK, we didn't loot but we stole a lot of stuff form shops. What's the difference.

So, that's my last input on this one.,  Apart from one thing. I also went to Grovesnor square on Sunday to throw stuff at the yanks, chanting hey LBJ how many kids you kill today. Sorry, American Fof posters! 075.gif

What's the difference? Mods and Rockers were gangs who hated each other. Violence, like football violence was nasty. But few wanted their parents to find out and few thought being arrested was a badge of honour. Few gangs stole from their own community on this scale and few burnt down buildings and killed people for protecting their stuff. Or helped people only to mug them.

Sorry I believe that people are stupid and sub human who did this. Poorly educated or too protected? When I was a kid, a knife was drawn at me at school. People around laughed at the kid with the knife. It was a cowards weapon. The kid with the knife was shamed. Now these people make excuses and complain of being poor. They can afford bikes and phones and Blackberry thingies and Sky.

However much we pretend these people are not that different. The fact is they are.

The thread is rightly coming to a natural death. Thanks to the Mods for allowing it to continue and to everybody for not going too over the top with comments. A good debate.

Quote from: jarv on August 10, 2011, 11:43:22 PMOK, we didn't loot but we stole a lot of stuff form shops. What's the difference.

The difference is that these people are burning buildings to cover the theft of trainers and phones they can't use. People lose their shops. The people in the flats above the shops lose their homes, their possessions, everything.

Like most on here I've had my moments in the past, and as a result I'm usually fairly forgiving. I even consider myself left wing in sympathy. But gangs turning up in cars, filling up buckets with petrol, running guys down in the street and starting fires to draw the police so they can loot a shop somewhere else - that's a different league to gang-on-gang battles at the seaside and a few broken windows.

I tell you one thing, this has certainly not helped the younger generation.

So I have shut down my London business and taken what was left to the US. But while I was still up and running I always made a point to hire a young lad out of school with no university education and try to give him a career or at least steer him in the right direction. It turned out to work very well for all parties.

If I still had my London business, I am not so sure I would have had continued with that program anymore. Would have had to have a real long think over it.

I don't think they have a clue to how much they have done to destroy what ever little belief I had in our knife wielding youth in the first place. Old England is dying.

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 10, 2011, 09:31:15 PM
@JBH
@mccscratch

HatterDon clearly isn't arguing that it's OK what these kids are doing. He's saying that as idiotic youngsters (i.e. most of us young people) most people tend to do stupid things and let events get carried away from us. Because they're young and stupid. I'm sure we can all sympathise with this (not with rioting, but with doing wrong things that we later regret).

For that reason, he argues, it wouldn't be a very nice world we lived in if to prevent youngsters doing silly things, we were to live in a police state in which a para-military police shot transgressors on sight. A world with execution without trial, basically. That's what he's saying.

(I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth, but I'm also sure he'd argue that it wouldn't be a very nice world to live in if the crimes of youth were punishable by death).

Sorry, if that was the message, then it was lost amongst the overstatements made - "even those who evidently prefer an England manned at night by fully armed police with "shoot-to-kill" guidance" is extremely disingenuous to other posters on here that have made very valid points. To even THINK that the Police would be armed in total is not just poor, but total scaremongering. It may not be a very well-known fact but every year the Police federation ask this questions of the Officers in England, and every year, without fail, there is a resounding NO, usually in the 80-90% range. And your assumption of his meaning "the crimes of youth were punishable by death" gives credence to this overstatement, and fantasizing.

I got in plenty of trouble in my youth, fights and minor thefts were rampant where I grew up, but I do not recall ever smashing a shop window, or setting fire to shops or apartments with residents still in them, or taking on the old bill, wearing ski masks to hide my face. And yes, I got my fair beatings from the Police as well. These are the actions of internal terrorism (No overstatement there - look up the meaning), where the local or national population are terrified to take any action for fear of intimidation or violence, and what's actually worse than the terrorism, it's for no better ideals than pure greed. The only statement these yobs wish to make is that they can do and take whatever they want without fear of lilly law doing anything about it, because if a copper was to meter out some deserved punishment, then he sees his pension disappear and faces jail, under the old rule 43 conditions - whilst the miscreants get off with fines they won't pay from their welfare and community service that is never enforced.

So please, don't give me this hardship crap, cos that's what it is. I agree that society has helped in so many ways to contribute to the way these yobbos are, but at the end of the day, perhaps a shoot-to-kill policy would be best, put them out of their own and everyone else's misery, unfortunately (though it won't be done by the CIVILIAN Police Force)

Quote from: finnster01 on August 11, 2011, 01:20:16 AM
I tell you one thing, this has certainly not helped the younger generation.

I don't think they have a clue to how much they have done to destroy what ever little belief I had in our knife wielding youth in the first place. Old England is dying.

Got to be honest Finn, England was poisoned many decades ago (Powell got it right in his infamous speech of '68), it's just taken this long for what's left of it to be ridden with vermin and insects of the kind we see each night hooded and violent, while the decent part of society tries to keep it going. It will take a very string medicine to bring England back to where it truly should be and where the real society deserves to be. Unfortunately we seem to have a number of junior doctors on call that know little about their own moral values and more about their own greed.

Quote from: finnster01 on August 11, 2011, 01:20:16 AM
I tell you one thing, this has certainly not helped the younger generation.

So I have shut down my London business and taken what was left to the US. But while I was still up and running I always made a point to hire a young lad out of school with no university education and try to give him a career or at least steer him in the right direction. It turned out to work very well for all parties.

If I still had my London business, I am not so sure I would have had continued with that program anymore. Would have had to have a real long think over it.

I don't think they have a clue to how much they have done to destroy what ever little belief I had in our knife wielding youth in the first place. Old England is dying.

Mate, I would do pretty much anything to be able to have the aprroval of the UK govt to work and live in England. I have sent hundreds of resumes over the years, and the closest I can get is my precious 3 days when I come over to see the Super Whites play. What those kids that are rioting have, the chance to live and WORK in London, is something I envy. They dont know what they have, and dont know what theyre throwing away.

Quote from: LordNelson on August 10, 2011, 11:38:09 PM

Quote from: HatterDon on August 10, 2011, 08:49:26 PM
Well, I recognize the need to blow off steam here, and I recognize that -- inevitably -- this steam comes in the form of "them and us" and a fairly clear indication of just who the "them" is. What I'm also seeing is that I must have had horrible parents and parenting myself, seeing as how I am -- evidently -- the only FofF poster who EVER ran the streets at night, who EVER got into fights while doing so, and who EVER caused a bit of damage to property in the process. Everyone who has ever gotten into a bit of a rumble knows that whether it remained small or blew into something requiring a lot of poliice intervention wasn't down to the choice of any one individual involved. These things tend to blow up.

Either I must be the only "us" who has ever so transgressed in his youth, or perhaps I'm actually a "them."

Please, y'all continue to blow off steam -- even those who evidently prefer an England manned at night by fully armed police with "shoot-to-kill" guidance. I'm going to give this thread a permanent rest. There's just only so much hate I can put up with.

Here's hoping that none of you is negatively affected by this senseless lawlessness, and that it ends soon. I'm gone.

I think this article sums up best the difference between the young & dumb HD of yesteryear and the yobs of today:

Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html)

Lord Nelson:
Thanks for posting the article. I saw it today and wanted to post the link but not being a native decided against it.
As I have mentioned we are heading down the same path in the states at a very fast rate.

Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters

By Max Hastings

A few weeks after the U.S. city of Detroit was ravaged by 1967 race riots in which 43 people died, I was shown around the wrecked areas by a black  reporter named Joe Strickland. He said: 'Don't you believe all that stuff people here are giving media folk about how sorry they are about what happened. When they talk to each other, they say: "It was a great fire, man!" '

I am sure that is what many of the young rioters, black and white, who have burned and looted in England through the past few shocking nights think today.

It was fun. It made life interesting. It got people to notice them. As a girl looter told a BBC reporter, it showed 'the rich' and the police that 'we can do what we like'.

If you live a normal life of absolute futility, which we can assume most of this week's rioters do, excitement of any kind is welcome. The people who wrecked swathes of property, burned vehicles and terrorised communities have no moral compass to make them susceptible to guilt or shame. Most have no jobs to go to or exams they might pass. They know no family role models, for most live in homes in which the father is unemployed, or from which he has decamped. They are illiterate and innumerate, beyond maybe some dexterity with computer games and BlackBerries. They are essentially wild beasts. I use that phrase advisedly, because it seems appropriate to young people bereft of the discipline that might make them employable; of the conscience that distinguishes between right and wrong. They respond only to instinctive animal impulses — to eat and drink, have sex, seize or destroy the accessible property of others. Their behaviour on the streets resembled that of the polar bear which attacked a Norwegian tourist camp last week. They were doing what came naturally and, unlike the bear, no one even shot them for it. A former London police chief spoke a few years ago about the 'feral children' on his patch — another way of describing the same reality.

The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations. They do not have what most of us would call 'lives': they simply exist.  Nobody has ever dared suggest to them that they need feel any allegiance to anything, least of all Britain or their community. They do not watch royal weddings or notice Test matches or take pride in being Londoners or Scousers or Brummies. Not only do they know nothing of Britain's past, they care nothing for its present. They have their being only in video games and street-fights, casual drug use and crime, sometimes petty, sometimes serious.

The notions of doing a nine-to-five job, marrying and sticking with a wife and kids, taking up DIY or learning to read properly, are beyond their imaginations.

Last week, I met a charity worker who is trying to help a teenage girl in East London to get a life for herself. There is a difficulty, however: 'Her mother wants her to go on the game.' My friend explained: 'It's the money, you know.'

An underclass has existed throughout history, which once endured appalling privation. Its spasmodic outbreaks of violence, especially in the early 19th century, frightened the ruling classes. Its frustrations and passions were kept at bay by force and draconian legal sanctions, foremost among them capital punishment and transportation to the colonies.

Today, those at the bottom of society behave no better than their forebears, but the welfare state has relieved them from hunger and real want. When social surveys speak of 'deprivation' and 'poverty', this is entirely relative. Meanwhile, sanctions for wrongdoing have largely vanished.

When Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith recently urged employers to take on more British workers and fewer migrants, he was greeted with a hoarse laugh. Every firm in the land knows that an East European — for instance — will, first, bother to turn up; second, work harder; and third, be better-educated than his or her British counterpart.

Who do we blame for this state of affairs?

Ken Livingstone, contemptible as ever, declares the riots to be a result of the Government's spending cuts. This recalls the remarks of the then leader of Lambeth Council, 'Red Ted' Knight, who said after the 1981 Brixton riots that the police in his borough 'amounted to an army of occupation'. But it will not do for a moment to claim the rioters' behaviour reflects deprived circumstances or police persecution. Of course it is true that few have jobs, learn anything useful at school, live in decent homes, eat meals at regular hours or feel loyalty to anything beyond their local gang.
This is not, however, because they are victims of mistreatment or neglect. It is because it is fantastically hard to help such people, young or old, without imposing a measure of compulsion  which modern society finds  unacceptable. These kids are what they are because nobody makes them be anything different or better.

A key factor in delinquency is lack of effective sanctions to deter it. From an early stage, feral children discover that they can bully fellow pupils at school, shout abuse at people in the streets, urinate outside pubs, hurl litter from car windows, play car radios at deafening volumes, and, indeed, commit casual assaults with only a negligible prospect of facing rebuke, far less retribution.
John Stuart Mill wrote in his great 1859 essay On Liberty: 'The liberty of the individual must be thus far limited; he must not make himself a nuisance to other people.' Yet every day up and down the land, this vital principle of civilised societies is breached with impunity. Anyone who reproaches a child, far less an adult, for discarding rubbish, making a racket, committing vandalism or driving unsociably will receive in return a torrent of obscenities, if not violence.

So who is to blame?

The breakdown of families, the pernicious promotion of single motherhood as a desirable state, the decline of domestic life so that even shared meals are a rarity, have all contributed importantly to the condition of the young underclass. The social engineering industry unites to claim that the conventional template of family life is no longer valid. And what of the schools? I  do not think they can be blamed for the creation of a grotesquely self-indulgent, non-judgmental culture. This has ultimately been sanctioned by Parliament, which refuses to accept, for instance, that children are more likely to prosper with two parents than with one, and that the dependency culture is a tragedy for those who receive something for nothing. The judiciary colludes with social services and infinitely ingenious lawyers to assert the primacy of the rights of the criminal and aggressor over those of law-abiding citizens, especially if a young offender is involved. The police, in recent years, have developed a reputation for ignoring yobbery and bullying, or even for taking the yobs' side against complainants. 'The problem,' said Bill Pitt, the former head of Manchester's Nuisance Strategy Unit, 'is that the law appears to be there to protect the rights of the perpetrator, and does not support the victim.' Police regularly arrest householders who are deemed to have taken 'disproportionate' action to protect themselves and their property from burglars or intruders. The message goes out that criminals have little to fear from 'the feds'. Figures published earlier this month show that a majority of 'lesser' crimes — which include burglary and car theft, and which cause acute distress to their victims — are never investigated, because forces think it so unlikely they will catch the perpetrators.
H
ow do you inculcate values in a child whose only role model is footballer Wayne Rooney — a man who is bereft of the most meagre human graces? How do you persuade children to renounce bad language when they hear little else from stars on the BBC? A teacher, Francis Gilbert, wrote five years ago in his book Yob Nation: 'The public feels it no longer has the right to interfere.' Discussing the difficulties of imposing sanctions for misbehaviour or idleness at school, he described the case of a girl pupil he scolded for missing all her homework deadlines. The youngster's mother, a social worker, telephoned him and said: 'Threatening to throw my daughter off the A-level course because she hasn't done some work is tantamount to psychological abuse, and there is legislation which prevents these sorts of threats. 'I believe you are trying to harm my child's mental well-being, and may well take steps . . . if you are not careful.' That story rings horribly true. It reflects a society in which teachers have been deprived of their traditional right to arbitrate pupils' behaviour. Denied power, most find it hard to sustain respect, never mind control.

I never enjoyed school, but, like most children until very recent times, did the work because I knew I would be punished if I did not. It would never have occurred to my parents not to uphold my  teachers' authority. This might have been unfair to some pupils, but it was the way schools functioned for centuries, until the advent of crazy 'pupil rights'. I recently received a letter from a teacher who worked in a county's pupil referral unit, describing appalling difficulties in enforcing discipline. Her only weapon, she said, was the right to mark a disciplinary cross against a child's name for misbehaviour. Having repeatedly and vainly asked a 15-year-old to stop using obscene language, she said: 'Fred, if you use language like that again, I'll give you a cross.' He replied: 'Give me an effing cross, then!' Eventually, she said: 'Fred, you have three crosses now. You must miss your next break.' He answered: 'I'm not missing my break, I'm going for an effing fag!' When she appealed to her manager, he said: 'Well, the boy's got a lot going on at home at  the moment. Don't be too hard  on him.' This is a story repeated daily in schools up and down the land.

A century ago, no child would have dared to use obscene language in class. Today, some use little else. It symbolises their contempt for manners and decency, and is often a foretaste of delinquency.
If a child lacks sufficient respect to address authority figures politely, and faces no penalty for failing to do so, then other forms of abuse — of property and person — come naturally.

So there we have it: a large, amoral, brutalised sub-culture of young British people who lack education because they have no will to learn, and skills which might make them employable. They are too idle to accept work waitressing or doing domestic labour, which is why almost all such jobs are filled by immigrants. They have no code of values to dissuade them from behaving anti-socially or, indeed, criminally, and small chance of being punished if they do so. They have no sense of responsibility for themselves, far less towards others, and look to no future beyond the next meal, sexual encounter or TV football game. They are an absolute deadweight upon society, because they contribute nothing yet cost the taxpayer billions. Liberal opinion holds they are victims, because society has failed to provide them with opportunities to develop their potential. Most of us would say this is nonsense. Rather, they are victims of a perverted social ethos, which elevates personal freedom to an absolute, and denies the underclass the discipline — tough love — which alone might enable some of its members to escape from the swamp of dependency in which they live.

Only education — together with politicians, judges, policemen and teachers with the courage to force feral humans to obey rules the rest of us have accepted all our lives — can provide a way forward and a way out for these people.

They are products of a culture which gives them so much unconditionally that they are let off learning how to become human beings. My dogs are better behaved and subscribe to a higher code of values than the young rioters of Tottenham, Hackney, Clapham and Birmingham. Unless or until those who run Britain introduce incentives for decency and impose penalties for bestiality which are today entirely lacking, there will never be a shortage of young rioters and looters such as those of the past four nights, for whom their monstrous excesses were 'a great fire, man'.

Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

Laughable? I think that article identifies exactly the plight that our society is in.

I only hope that the descent into decadence and idleness is not a feature of all societies, as it was for the Romans and others in history. Otherwise the post-industrial age in Britain won't consist of high tech industries and wealth for all....just ignorance and mob law.

Laughable? You're 'aving a larf, ain't you?

Though sometimes overstated, the thrust of the article appears spot on, and lays the blame where it needs to be, on society in general and the yobbos themselves in particular. I don't agree with everything that's stated, but it's the closest i've seen thus far dealing with the underlying causes and congratulate Burt on posting it. Thanks, and if anyone else have such articles that argues their authors pov rather than soundbites, or laying blame on institutions alone, then please post them.

I fully understand and condenm what has occurred over thepast few days. However, why am I not hearing equal condemnation towards the bankers, the insurance companies, who will use every trick in the book to avoid paying out to all the claimants. Yes these thugs were committing robbery but are'nt the banks and insurance companies doing this regularly?

Quote from: Peabody on August 11, 2011, 11:42:21 AM
I fully understand and condenm what has occurred over thepast few days. However, why am I not hearing equal condemnation towards the bankers, the insurance companies, who will use every trick in the book to avoid paying out to all the claimants. Yes these thugs were committing robbery but are'nt the banks and insurance companies doing this regularly?

I agree there Mr P.
Perhaps a good thing is the PM has just announced they will make good any genuine claims via the Police/Authority process. So, the same way they got the bail out just a few years ago, they might not baulk so much at paying out, because it won't actually cost them a penny in the end.

The riots were not caused by bankers and insurance companies but by feral youth. If we are making a connection then we must make a connection and ask why these bankers and insurance companies were and are being allowed to get away with it, But we would have to talk about Governments and that is not allowed.

I can be cheated by the NHS and insurance and Police and Bankers and my football club and other human beings. But if I then hit you over the head and rob you and then burn your house down. Can I really claim a legitimate connection? Unless you are the one that did me harm.

I don't normally "do" Max Hastings but in this instance there is not much in his article that I haven't witnessed first hand and would therefore disagree with.

...and so with the aftermath of the latest riots being subjected to theorising and to a post-mortem, and most people having made their points of view known, and the silent majority have kept their thoughts to themselves, it is time to draw this post to a close.

I have given the longest rein I have ever given on a post that would inevitably turn political and hence turn members on members, as politics always does, I believe we have done this subject to death on what should be a football forum (I appreciate it has and can affect the football).

Therefore this is notice that this thread will be locked tonight - or if name calling occurs, sooner - if you feel you have relevant points to make that haven't been made before, you have a little time to make your voice(s) heard. Thanks to you all for on the whole keeping the thread civilised...

The hastings article...regarding teachers.... many years ago my mate, a school teacher, had a 15 year old yob disrupt his class regularly (he was also a bit of a bully). He took the lad out in the corridor, lifted him off the ground by his throat, slammed him against the wall and about one inch from his face threatened him with a moutful of obscenities.

The result..., never got another word out of the boy. Quiet as a mouse for ever more and my mate was sure that the fact they both supported west ham was not the newfound bond between them. (He knew he could be sacked but all else had failed).

Back then we all had teachers we used to be a bit scared of. Didn't do any harm did it?

Quote from: Lighthouse on August 11, 2011, 12:20:53 PM
The riots were not caused by bankers and insurance companies but by feral youth. If we are making a connection then we must make a connection and ask why these bankers and insurance companies were and are being allowed to get away with it, But we would have to talk about Governments and that is not allowed.

I can be cheated by the NHS and insurance and Police and Bankers and my football club and other human beings. But if I then hit you over the head and rob you and then burn your house down. Can I really claim a legitimate connection? Unless you are the one that did me harm.


Read what I said again, or are you going to be once again, selective in what you see?

Quote from: jarv on August 11, 2011, 12:54:15 PM
The hastings article...regarding teachers.... many years ago my mate, a school teacher, had a 15 year old yob disrupt his class regularly (he was also a bit of a bully). He took the lad out in the corridor, lifted him off the ground by his throat, slammed him against the wall and about one inch from his face threatened him with a moutful of obscenities.

The result..., never got another word out of the boy. Quiet as a mouse for ever more and my mate was sure that the fact they both supported west ham was not the newfound bond between them. (He knew he could be sacked but all else had failed).

Back then we all had teachers we used to be a bit scared of. Didn't do any harm did it?

I only needed the cane once. That was deterrent enough.

The video below is rather brilliant. Meaningless violence in Manchester! What a tug!

Manchester Riots 2011: scenes from Whalley Range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbVW_QS2eE#)

Quote from: sipwell on August 11, 2011, 10:10:59 AM
Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

:023: :023: :023:
Seriously? Since you are throwing out the "latin" lingo this is an absolute case of  Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc being 100% accurate and not a logical fallacy...actually the defense of these cretins with these ham handed euphemisms I have seen on here makes my blood boil.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 11, 2011, 03:44:10 PM

Quote from: sipwell on August 11, 2011, 10:10:59 AM
Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

:023: :023: :023:
Seriously? Since you are throwing out the "latin" lingo this is an absolute case of  Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc being 100% accurate and not a logical fallacy...actually the defense of these cretins with these ham handed euphemisms I have seen on here makes my blood boil.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

One example is given to prove a point about a whole society is a pars pro toto gone wrong. It is a mere rhetorical technique. All the schools were students do respect teachers are hereby also declared as problematic. The mere fact also that the author emphasizes the fact that one of the angry mums one of his readers, a teacher, had to deal with was a social worker delegitimizes all social workers trying to make the best out of it. He does it over and over again. I will admit that this is a textbook case of a quality op-ed (and one that will most presumably be used next year for courses on discourse analysis).

Don't get me wrong though. What happened is awful and all the people involved need to be brought to justice and punished according to the figuring laws. There are grave issues in the British underclass which need to be dealt with, urgently. I will not take a stance as to how these issues need to be fixed, as that would be political.
But to blame it all on "liberal values" I believe in is very disrespectful towards all of us who do behave properly. The op-eds I have read so far just attack my lifestyle and my beliefs. I hope that is equally allowed :023:

PS. Thanks for delegitimizing me too. It wasn't "Latin", it was Latin. I won't hold it against you though  082.gif

Not so long ago......................

"Send a gun to defend a British Home"

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/125975/ (http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/125975/)

Quote from: sipwell on August 11, 2011, 03:59:38 PM

Quote from: Jimbobob on August 11, 2011, 03:44:10 PM

Quote from: sipwell on August 11, 2011, 10:10:59 AM
Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

:023: :023: :023:
Seriously? Since you are throwing out the "latin" lingo this is an absolute case of  Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc being 100% accurate and not a logical fallacy...actually the defense of these cretins with these ham handed euphemisms I have seen on here makes my blood boil.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

One example is given to prove a point about a whole society is a pars pro toto gone wrong. It is a mere rhetorical technique. All the schools were students do respect teachers are hereby also declared as problematic. The mere fact also that the author emphasizes the fact that one of the angry mums one of his readers, a teacher, had to deal with was a social worker delegitimizes all social workers trying to make the best out of it. He does it over and over again. I will admit that this is a textbook case of a quality op-ed (and one that will most presumably be used next year for courses on discourse analysis).

Don't get me wrong though. What happened is awful and all the people involved need to be brought to justice and punished according to the figuring laws. There are grave issues in the British underclass which need to be dealt with, urgently. I will not take a stance as to how these issues need to be fixed, as that would be political.
But to blame it all on "liberal values" I believe in is very disrespectful towards all of us who do behave properly. The op-eds I have read so far just attack my lifestyle and my beliefs. I hope that is equally allowed :023:

PS. Thanks for delegitimizing me too. It wasn't "Latin", it was Latin. I won't hold it against you though  082.gif

All I was saying is Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc is a logical fallacy - the cock crows, the sun rises, therefore the cock caused the sun to rise.
However; the liberal nanny state is the cause of this mess so the fallacy is proven true. I wasn't trying to delegitimatize you so my apologies. I was just using some Latin lingo as well. Thanks.
We will just never agree on these issues ---- and that is fine  082.gif 082.gif 082.gif

Why dont you all move over here? ...It's quite nice when the sun is out ;p

Quote from: Blingo on August 11, 2011, 04:40:31 PM
Why dont you all move over here? ...It's quite nice when the sun is out ;p

Mr Blingo,
You have a different set of thugs that probably prevent mass migration ...  :005:

(http://shakhtar.com/data/imgdata/foto/news/41287__full_news.jpg)

Quote from: LBNo11 on August 11, 2011, 12:52:45 PM
...and so with the aftermath of the latest riots being subjected to theorising and to a post-mortem, and most people having made their points of view known, and the silent majority have kept their thoughts to themselves, it is time to draw this post to a close.

I have given the longest rein I have ever given on a post that would inevitably turn political and hence turn members on members, as politics always does, I believe we have done this subject to death on what should be a football forum (I appreciate it has and can affect the football).

Therefore this is notice that this thread will be locked tonight - or if name calling occurs, sooner - if you feel you have relevant points to make that haven't been made before, you have a little time to make your voice(s) heard. Thanks to you all for on the whole keeping the thread civilised...

LOCK PENDING

inevitable? It was 90% political by halfway down the first page.

A serious salute to you and all the other mods for letting everyone vent. This thread was compelling reading for a while. I remember searching for zzamora's contributions elsewhere on the site the "morning after" his chilling first-person account of what was occuring outside his window, and how glad I was to see him still talking football.

Ah, yes; football. COYW and let's get some Villains!

an interesting paper on the links between austarity and anarchy - http://www.voxeu.org/sites/default/files/file/DP8513.pdf (http://www.voxeu.org/sites/default/files/file/DP8513.pdf)

Quote from: finnster01 on August 11, 2011, 01:20:16 AM
If I still had my London business, I am not so sure I would have had continued with that program anymore. Would have had to have a real long think over it.

I think people are forgetting that in Hackney where I work, for example, 300? kids turned out to riot and loot.

20,000 kids of similar backgrounds and hardships didn't.

Quote from: SP3 on August 11, 2011, 08:21:02 PM

Quote from: finnster01 on August 11, 2011, 01:20:16 AM
If I still had my London business, I am not so sure I would have had continued with that program anymore. Would have had to have a real long think over it.

I think people are forgetting that in Hackney where I work, for example, 300? kids turned out to riot and loot.

20,000 kids of similar backgrounds and hardships didn't.

Fair point Mr SP3 and glad to hear that.
However my business was/is small. Everyone makes a difference and there is very little room for error. No place to hide. Somebody messes up, it hurts everybody which is why it worked well because people took responsibility.

Now I'd have to say like Forest Gump: "Life is like a box of chocolate, you don't know what you are going to get". Point is, don't underestimate the damage a retarded few can do to the broader peer group. Not sure if I wanted to take that risk anymore after what I have seen unfold.  075.gif

Quote from: finnster01 on August 11, 2011, 08:32:54 PM
Point is, don't underestimate the damage a retarded few can do to the broader peer group. Not sure if I wanted to take that risk anymore after what I have seen unfold.  075.gif [/size]

That's a fair point, too.

   
H. L. Mencken said :
"No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

Have we just been watched ''the plain'' people ....................................???????????????
Haven't there always been and won't there always be, ........'plain people'  

 

I didn't think this problem could touch me so far down in France but this evening I played golf with a friend who's daughters (aged 16 and 13) are on a language course for 2 weeks in Brighton. They were attacked by a group of girls just because they were different.  I must admit it had me being ashamed to be British. What could I say?

Quote from: finnster01 on August 11, 2011, 04:52:20 PM

Quote from: Blingo on August 11, 2011, 04:40:31 PM
Why dont you all move over here? ...It's quite nice when the sun is out ;p

Mr Blingo,
You have a different set of thugs that probably prevent mass migration ...  :005:

(http://shakhtar.com/data/imgdata/foto/news/41287__full_news.jpg)

Not prevent Finny, but CONTROL the problem lol.

Quote from: KCat on August 11, 2011, 09:53:12 PM
   
H. L. Mencken said :
"No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

Have we just been watched ''the plain'' people ....................................???????????????
Haven't there always been and won't there always be, ........'plain people'  

...KCat, in Mencken's time education wasn't quite so readily available from the state, basic education today is free to the masses. Today, sadly the old adage is true,  you can lead a horse to water - but you can't make it drink. The available font of knowledge is treated with disdain by those who don't want to be baptised with education...

LB .............perhaps the ones that cannot be led to water are todays  ...plain people

Before the thread is locked - BBC2, 10.35pm, Question Time riot special. Should be good*.

*make me want to put my fist through the TV whenever the Tory speaks.

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 11, 2011, 10:29:21 PM

*make me want to put my fist through the TV whenever the Tory speaks.

At least it's not Michael Bloody Gove. :035:

Quote from: ImperialWhite on August 11, 2011, 10:29:21 PM
Before the thread is locked - BBC2, 10.35pm, Question Time riot special. Should be good*.

*make me want to put my fist through the TV whenever the Tory speaks.

got a crap panel imho

Personally, I don't watch "Wind-up Hour" any more. I have my blood pressure to consider.

In light of the above remarks it's worth noting that some of the people charged include a graduate, a trainee dental assistant, an Olympic ambassador and a teaching assistant. It is becoming more and more apparent that greed knows no limits with regards to education or socio economic background.

That's it.  Head explosion time.  085.gif

Quote from: Jimpav on August 11, 2011, 10:48:53 PM
In light of the above remarks it's worth noting that some of the people charged include a graduate, a trainee dental assistant, an Olympic ambassador and a teaching assistant. It is becoming more and more apparent that greed knows no limits with regards to education or socio economic background.

...some, no doubt; some people are well educated but do not have morals, (many politicians have also fallen into this category no matter their political hue), but the majority of the rioters are the product of the "jog on generation" and their own legacy will be an intelligence vacuum, and they will pass this on to their children, and unless we can break the cycle these begetters will create more of the misbegotten...