NFR - Riots in North London

[Lighthouse]

The riots were not caused by bankers and insurance companies but by feral youth. If we are making a connection then we must make a connection and ask why these bankers and insurance companies were and are being allowed to get away with it, But we would have to talk about Governments and that is not allowed.

I can be cheated by the NHS and insurance and Police and Bankers and my football club and other human beings. But if I then hit you over the head and rob you and then burn your house down. Can I really claim a legitimate connection? Unless you are the one that did me harm.

[Burt]

I don't normally "do" Max Hastings but in this instance there is not much in his article that I haven't witnessed first hand and would therefore disagree with.

[LBNo11]

...and so with the aftermath of the latest riots being subjected to theorising and to a post-mortem, and most people having made their points of view known, and the silent majority have kept their thoughts to themselves, it is time to draw this post to a close.

I have given the longest rein I have ever given on a post that would inevitably turn political and hence turn members on members, as politics always does, I believe we have done this subject to death on what should be a football forum (I appreciate it has and can affect the football).

Therefore this is notice that this thread will be locked tonight - or if name calling occurs, sooner - if you feel you have relevant points to make that haven't been made before, you have a little time to make your voice(s) heard. Thanks to you all for on the whole keeping the thread civilised...


LOCK PENDING

[jarv]

The hastings article...regarding teachers.... many years ago my mate, a school teacher, had a 15 year old yob disrupt his class regularly (he was also a bit of a bully). He took the lad out in the corridor, lifted him off the ground by his throat, slammed him against the wall and about one inch from his face threatened him with a moutful of obscenities.

The result..., never got another word out of the boy. Quiet as a mouse for ever more and my mate was sure that the fact they both supported west ham was not the newfound bond between them. (He knew he could be sacked but all else had failed).

Back then we all had teachers we used to be a bit scared of. Didn't do any harm did it?

[Peabody]

The riots were not caused by bankers and insurance companies but by feral youth. If we are making a connection then we must make a connection and ask why these bankers and insurance companies were and are being allowed to get away with it, But we would have to talk about Governments and that is not allowed.

I can be cheated by the NHS and insurance and Police and Bankers and my football club and other human beings. But if I then hit you over the head and rob you and then burn your house down. Can I really claim a legitimate connection? Unless you are the one that did me harm.


Read what I said again, or are you going to be once again, selective in what you see?

[Burt]

The hastings article...regarding teachers.... many years ago my mate, a school teacher, had a 15 year old yob disrupt his class regularly (he was also a bit of a bully). He took the lad out in the corridor, lifted him off the ground by his throat, slammed him against the wall and about one inch from his face threatened him with a moutful of obscenities.

The result..., never got another word out of the boy. Quiet as a mouse for ever more and my mate was sure that the fact they both supported west ham was not the newfound bond between them. (He knew he could be sacked but all else had failed).

Back then we all had teachers we used to be a bit scared of. Didn't do any harm did it?

I only needed the cane once. That was deterrent enough.

[sipwell]

The video below is rather brilliant. Meaningless violence in Manchester! What a tug!

Manchester Riots 2011: scenes from Whalley Range

[Jimbobob]

Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

Seriously? Since you are throwing out the "latin" lingo this is an absolute case of  Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc being 100% accurate and not a logical fallacy...actually the defense of these cretins with these ham handed euphemisms I have seen on here makes my blood boil.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

[sipwell]

Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

Seriously? Since you are throwing out the "latin" lingo this is an absolute case of  Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc being 100% accurate and not a logical fallacy...actually the defense of these cretins with these ham handed euphemisms I have seen on here makes my blood boil.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

One example is given to prove a point about a whole society is a pars pro toto gone wrong. It is a mere rhetorical technique. All the schools were students do respect teachers are hereby also declared as problematic. The mere fact also that the author emphasizes the fact that one of the angry mums one of his readers, a teacher, had to deal with was a social worker delegitimizes all social workers trying to make the best out of it. He does it over and over again. I will admit that this is a textbook case of a quality op-ed (and one that will most presumably be used next year for courses on discourse analysis).

Don't get me wrong though. What happened is awful and all the people involved need to be brought to justice and punished according to the figuring laws. There are grave issues in the British underclass which need to be dealt with, urgently. I will not take a stance as to how these issues need to be fixed, as that would be political.
But to blame it all on "liberal values" I believe in is very disrespectful towards all of us who do behave properly. The op-eds I have read so far just attack my lifestyle and my beliefs. I hope that is equally allowed

PS. Thanks for delegitimizing me too. It wasn't "Latin", it was Latin. I won't hold it against you though  082.gif

[LordNelson]

Not so long ago......................

"Send a gun to defend a British Home"

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/125975/

[Jimbobob]

Lol. I never thought that laughable, distorted Hastings article would make it onto FoF. Using single examples as pars pro toto. LOL I actually take personal offense in the blame on "values", as they completely distort what these values stand for.

Anyway: my blood boils already. Not going to participate in this discussion!

Seriously? Since you are throwing out the "latin" lingo this is an absolute case of  Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc being 100% accurate and not a logical fallacy...actually the defense of these cretins with these ham handed euphemisms I have seen on here makes my blood boil.  :dft008: :dft008: :dft008:

One example is given to prove a point about a whole society is a pars pro toto gone wrong. It is a mere rhetorical technique. All the schools were students do respect teachers are hereby also declared as problematic. The mere fact also that the author emphasizes the fact that one of the angry mums one of his readers, a teacher, had to deal with was a social worker delegitimizes all social workers trying to make the best out of it. He does it over and over again. I will admit that this is a textbook case of a quality op-ed (and one that will most presumably be used next year for courses on discourse analysis).

Don't get me wrong though. What happened is awful and all the people involved need to be brought to justice and punished according to the figuring laws. There are grave issues in the British underclass which need to be dealt with, urgently. I will not take a stance as to how these issues need to be fixed, as that would be political.
But to blame it all on "liberal values" I believe in is very disrespectful towards all of us who do behave properly. The op-eds I have read so far just attack my lifestyle and my beliefs. I hope that is equally allowed

PS. Thanks for delegitimizing me too. It wasn't "Latin", it was Latin. I won't hold it against you though  082.gif

All I was saying is Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc is a logical fallacy - the cock crows, the sun rises, therefore the cock caused the sun to rise.
However; the liberal nanny state is the cause of this mess so the fallacy is proven true. I wasn't trying to delegitimatize you so my apologies. I was just using some Latin lingo as well. Thanks.
We will just never agree on these issues ---- and that is fine  082.gif 082.gif 082.gif

[Blingo]

Why dont you all move over here? ...It's quite nice when the sun is out ;p

[finnster01]

Why dont you all move over here? ...It's quite nice when the sun is out ;p

Mr Blingo,
You have a different set of thugs that probably prevent mass migration ...  :005:

[HatterDon]

...and so with the aftermath of the latest riots being subjected to theorising and to a post-mortem, and most people having made their points of view known, and the silent majority have kept their thoughts to themselves, it is time to draw this post to a close.

I have given the longest rein I have ever given on a post that would inevitably turn political and hence turn members on members, as politics always does, I believe we have done this subject to death on what should be a football forum (I appreciate it has and can affect the football).

Therefore this is notice that this thread will be locked tonight - or if name calling occurs, sooner - if you feel you have relevant points to make that haven't been made before, you have a little time to make your voice(s) heard. Thanks to you all for on the whole keeping the thread civilised...


LOCK PENDING

inevitable? It was 90% political by halfway down the first page.

A serious salute to you and all the other mods for letting everyone vent. This thread was compelling reading for a while. I remember searching for zzamora's contributions elsewhere on the site the "morning after" his chilling first-person account of what was occuring outside his window, and how glad I was to see him still talking football.

Ah, yes; football. COYW and let's get some Villains!

[LRCN]

an interesting paper on the links between austarity and anarchy - http://www.voxeu.org/sites/default/files/file/DP8513.pdf

[SP3]

If I still had my London business, I am not so sure I would have had continued with that program anymore. Would have had to have a real long think over it.

I think people are forgetting that in Hackney where I work, for example, 300? kids turned out to riot and loot.

20,000 kids of similar backgrounds and hardships didn't.

[finnster01]

If I still had my London business, I am not so sure I would have had continued with that program anymore. Would have had to have a real long think over it.

I think people are forgetting that in Hackney where I work, for example, 300? kids turned out to riot and loot.

20,000 kids of similar backgrounds and hardships didn't.

Fair point Mr SP3 and glad to hear that.
However my business was/is small. Everyone makes a difference and there is very little room for error. No place to hide. Somebody messes up, it hurts everybody which is why it worked well because people took responsibility.

Now I'd have to say like Forest Gump: "Life is like a box of chocolate, you don't know what you are going to get". Point is, don't underestimate the damage a retarded few can do to the broader peer group. Not sure if I wanted to take that risk anymore after what I have seen unfold.  075.gif

[SP3]

Point is, don't underestimate the damage a retarded few can do to the broader peer group. Not sure if I wanted to take that risk anymore after what I have seen unfold.  075.gif [/size]

That's a fair point, too.

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

   
H. L. Mencken said :
"No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

Have we just been watched ''the plain'' people ....................................???????????????
Haven't there always been and won't there always be, ........'plain people'  

 

[FC Silver Fox]

I didn't think this problem could touch me so far down in France but this evening I played golf with a friend who's daughters (aged 16 and 13) are on a language course for 2 weeks in Brighton. They were attacked by a group of girls just because they were different.  I must admit it had me being ashamed to be British. What could I say?