JOL OUT!!
There i've started it. it's Sanchez 2 the sequel. 096.gig
Jol in.
Nogood "backbone and patience, eh" Boyo
Sorry I can't agree. I hope that when the transfer window opens, Jol can make the team line up more his own and buy players that can play the way he wants them to. When he does I expect that results will improve. Either way I can't see MAF getting rid unless we are stuck in the bottom 3.
Jol will stay and buy a few players and sell a few and we will have to put up with this sort of dull no attacking football with players stuck on the edge of the area trying to make clever through balls as our only tactic. Not looking forward to it. The only thing is at least we look as if we lack heart AND tactics now. Good old Jol.
fp.gif
Jol out...of luck.
I try not to criticise any Fulham players or managers. When RH and MH were appointed there were a lot of doubters. I never doubted either of them. There were enough positive signs that things would come good and they did.
When Jol was appointed I felt positive. However, it did not take me long to really doubt this man's ability. I think it is clear now.
He paid 10 mill for a player who could soon be the second coming of marlet. He picks an attacking line up on paper and the team just defends for long periods. The team has no pace which has been obvious before the start of the season when transfers were available.
For me, Jol now has a LOT OF QUESTIONS to answer. Either answer them, tell us how you are going to fix it or GO.
Today, it seems Fulham have once again hit rock bottom with another woeful away performance. I really feel for the travelling supporters. If I lived in England, I wouldn't waste my hard earnt money to be honest.
Im on the fence at the moment:
In the Jol to stay column : Inherited an ageing squad, not had a chance to really stamp his mark. Im getting bored of us changing managers. We have had some horrendous luck, everton and spuds springs to mind
In the Jol to go : Trying to force a system on settled players that they can't play smacks of bad management. You work with what you've got until you can change it. Where does our record signing play????? you cannot play him and dembele in the same time in my opinion.
Quote from: jarv on December 10, 2011, 05:14:42 PM
I try not to criticise any Fulham players or managers. When RH and MH were appointed there were a lot of doubters. I never doubted either of them. There were enough positive signs that things would come good and they did.
When Jol was appointed I felt positive. However, it did not take me long to really doubt this man's ability. I think it is clear now.
He paid 10 mill for a player who could soon be the second coming of marlet. He picks an attacking line up on paper and the team just defends for long periods. The team has no pace which has been obvious before the start of the season when transfers were available.
For me, Jol now has a LOT OF QUESTIONS to answer. Either answer them, tell us how you are going to fix it or GO.
Today, it seems Fulham have once again hit rock bottom with another woeful away performance. I really feel for the travelling supporters. If I lived in England, I wouldn't waste my hard earnt money to be honest.
He is the same manager of the team that beat Liverpool and drew with Arsenal (and were unlucky to to win there as well) and so he must be doing something right...
I don't like Jol but I accept him.
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on December 10, 2011, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: jarv on December 10, 2011, 05:14:42 PM
I try not to criticise any Fulham players or managers. When RH and MH were appointed there were a lot of doubters. I never doubted either of them. There were enough positive signs that things would come good and they did.
When Jol was appointed I felt positive. However, it did not take me long to really doubt this man's ability. I think it is clear now.
He paid 10 mill for a player who could soon be the second coming of marlet. He picks an attacking line up on paper and the team just defends for long periods. The team has no pace which has been obvious before the start of the season when transfers were available.
For me, Jol now has a LOT OF QUESTIONS to answer. Either answer them, tell us how you are going to fix it or GO.
Today, it seems Fulham have once again hit rock bottom with another woeful away performance. I really feel for the travelling supporters. If I lived in England, I wouldn't waste my hard earnt money to be honest.
He is the same manager of the team that beat Liverpool and drew with Arsenal (and were unlucky to to win there as well) and so he must be doing something right...
Like what? Having Dempsey take penalties?
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on December 10, 2011, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: jarv on December 10, 2011, 05:14:42 PM
I try not to criticise any Fulham players or managers. When RH and MH were appointed there were a lot of doubters. I never doubted either of them. There were enough positive signs that things would come good and they did.
When Jol was appointed I felt positive. However, it did not take me long to really doubt this man's ability. I think it is clear now.
He paid 10 mill for a player who could soon be the second coming of marlet. He picks an attacking line up on paper and the team just defends for long periods. The team has no pace which has been obvious before the start of the season when transfers were available.
For me, Jol now has a LOT OF QUESTIONS to answer. Either answer them, tell us how you are going to fix it or GO.
Today, it seems Fulham have once again hit rock bottom with another woeful away performance. I really feel for the travelling supporters. If I lived in England, I wouldn't waste my hard earnt money to be honest.
He is the same manager of the team that beat Liverpool and drew with Arsenal (and were unlucky to to win there as well) and so he must be doing something right...
Like what? Having Dempsey take penalties?
It will be interesting to find out if Dempsey was indeed the chosen one...
No one has talked about things being Fulhamish lately. We never get lucky. Course, it can be said that the good make their own luck.
Edward, yes, Liverpool was a win (and a FINE game) but luck played it's part. They had greater possession, hit the bar twice and to be honest, Fulham got some kind refereeing decisions (for once).
I am not saying he should go but if the perception at work was you were doing such a poor job, you would have to answer questions wouldn't you? At the moment, Jol is failing. We all want him to succeed, but he is struggling. I feel the tactics are poor and the players, at times, just don't look interested. That's the managers job to fix!!! 089.gif
Quote from: jarv on December 10, 2011, 05:38:54 PM
Edward, yes, Liverpool was a win (and a FINE game) but luck played it's part. They had greater possession, hit the bar twice and to be honest, Fulham got some kind refereeing decisions (for once).
I am not saying he should go but if the perception at work was you were doing such a poor job, you would have to answer questions wouldn't you? At the moment, Jol is failing. We all want him to succeed, but he is struggling. I feel the tactics are poor and the players, at times, just don't look interested. That's the managers job to fix!!! 089.gif
:clap_hands:
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on December 10, 2011, 05:08:44 PM
Sorry I can't agree. I hope that when the transfer window opens, Jol can make the team line up more his own and buy players that can play the way he wants them to. When he does I expect that results will improve. Either way I can't see MAF getting rid unless we are stuck in the bottom 3.
...you say that, but you of all people should be aware that it is unlikely that (unless forced to) in the next transfer window MAF is going to spend, spend, spend on big transfers; it will be a few cracks papered over and some loan deals and free transfers coupled with a few high profile players going the other way. MAF will not be happy to yet again have to dig deep whilst he is doing all he can to make the club self-sufficient...
People keep saying "give him time" (myself included). I think it is right to give the manager time, to some extent. The thing that makes me very doubtful about Jol is that his tactics have more often than not been poor this season. Against Twente and Swansea we were camped outside the penalty area refusing to attack, until we conceded. Also I generally don't like managers who don't give the players a lot of feedback during the match, but Jol is different. He doesn't say anything to the players! Why? Does he want to keep his image? As a manager you've got to be able to tell the players to change things if it's necessary. javascript:void(0);
Quote from: jarv on December 10, 2011, 05:38:54 PM
Edward, yes, Liverpool was a win (and a FINE game) but luck played it's part. They had greater possession, hit the bar twice and to be honest, Fulham got some kind refereeing decisions (for once).
I am not saying he should go but if the perception at work was you were doing such a poor job, you would have to answer questions wouldn't you? At the moment, Jol is failing. We all want him to succeed, but he is struggling. I feel the tactics are poor and the players, at times, just don't look interested. That's the managers job to fix!!! 089.gif
+1!
Mr SW,
Thank you for summing up Jol with your javascript:void(0); comment. That is the way he is.
Get Coat gif
Quote from: WestCountryWhite on December 10, 2011, 05:17:48 PM
Im on the fence at the moment:
In the Jol to stay column : Inherited an ageing squad, not had a chance to really stamp his mark. Im getting bored of us changing managers. We have had some horrendous luck, everton and spuds springs to mind
In the Jol to go : Trying to force a system on settled players that they can't play smacks of bad management. You work with what you've got until you can change it. Where does our record signing play????? you cannot play him and dembele in the same time in my opinion.
bang on here.
Jol out of here we lost against a team that was in championship last year come on, where are we going to get points if not against those teams
Ok then,
Jol out and who in?
*awaits amusing answers*
Steve Bruce
David O'Leary
George Graham
Bryan Robson
John Gregory
David Pleat
Amusing enough for you?? :027:
Mr Moon
A fair question. My answer: Danny Murphy.
I want Jol to stay and a few extra players bought and loaned in the Jan window to fill the places we need. I didn't we'd do well today with the people we had missing
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, I AM a supporter of this club before other people judge me otherwise, I will NOT leave my OWN website just because members can't accept my oppinion, I personally have given Jol enough of my time, I can't stand the guy, he is clueless, he is not right for Fulham Football Club and I want him OUT.
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:26:54 PM
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, I AM a supporter of this club before other people judge me otherwise, I will NOT leave my OWN website just because members can't accept my oppinion, I personally have given Jol enough of my time, I can't stand the guy, he is clueless, he is not right for Fulham Football Club and I want him OUT.
You've had enough of him. Ok. Who do you want to replace him?
Quote from: Jambo on December 10, 2011, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:26:54 PM
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, I AM a supporter of this club before other people judge me otherwise, I will NOT leave my OWN website just because members can't accept my oppinion, I personally have given Jol enough of my time, I can't stand the guy, he is clueless, he is not right for Fulham Football Club and I want him OUT.
You've had enough of him. Ok. Who do you want to replace him?
...with respect that's a stock answer Jambo, but let's say he get's kicked out by the club (the fans don't have that sort of influence) who would you replace him with, I mean, is he irreplaceable and that Fulham a premiership club in London with a billionaire owner cannot attract quality managers..?
Oh that's all right Finnster. He really is that way though isn't he!
Quote from: Jambo on December 10, 2011, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:26:54 PM
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, I AM a supporter of this club before other people judge me otherwise, I will NOT leave my OWN website just because members can't accept my oppinion, I personally have given Jol enough of my time, I can't stand the guy, he is clueless, he is not right for Fulham Football Club and I want him OUT.
You've had enough of him. Ok. Who do you want to replace him?
Anyone but this idiot, I'm sorry but no manager has made this angry since Sanchez. Who ever the club appoint afterwards then so be it. They got it right with Hodgson so I trust them to get it right again.
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:36:26 PM
Quote from: Jambo on December 10, 2011, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:26:54 PM
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, I AM a supporter of this club before other people judge me otherwise, I will NOT leave my OWN website just because members can't accept my oppinion, I personally have given Jol enough of my time, I can't stand the guy, he is clueless, he is not right for Fulham Football Club and I want him OUT.
You've had enough of him. Ok. Who do you want to replace him?
Anyone but this idiot, I'm sorry but no manager has made this angry since Sanchez. Who ever the club appoint afterwards then so be it. They got it right with Hodgson so I trust them to get it right again.
I refuse to jump on this bandwagon because I will give him a chance and Ive seen in certain games that we are a good side and play good football. He inherited an ageing side that had to be changed and unfortunately no one likes change. I for one don't think he has had much luck for most of the season which you do need by changing the manager is not ALWAYS the answer. If Dempsey had scored that pen would you have still felt this strongly?
And asking someone to point out who they want to replace him isn't a "stock answer". Jol has to be given the chance to build his own squad and if that means having a season of transition where we finish in the bottom half so be it. We won't go down.
I am fully behind him.
i dont think we should give him some time, swansea are pretty good at home and beat west brom 3-0, so we did better than RH
we do need to stop conceding late goals though
...OK Jambo, you are entitled to believe in Jol, I hope you are right.
A couple of questions though, maybe you can give me some hope in your replies:-
1) If he needs to replace this ageing squad, how many players do we need to replace?
2) How much money do you think we would need to replace those players?
3) How much money do you think MAF will stump up to replace those players.
4) As these are experienced players on their way out, do you think we will replace them with younger players of similar abilities?
5) Do you think because of the inflated costs of premiership players that have experience we will search Dutch leagues for example, and would you not be concerned that they will need time to get up to speed in the top flight?
By the way, opinions are not necessarily based on jumping on bandwagons, they are sometimes based on what we see and interpret, and what causes concern for the future of the club; we have played 28 games to date, quite a few against weaker teams in Europa, and I have seen nothing that makes me think Jol is the answer. Yes we have had games where we have been unlucky, but we have had more where we have looked a shambles, is that down to the manager of the team, or the players age? Are all the players letting him down or just two or three of the more experienced - and if just those few experienced, why play them..?
But Jambo is right. Are there decent managers out there?
Steve Bruce, Curbishley, Eriksson, McClaren, Davies, Southgate....I don't know if there's anyone I'd fancy over Jol.
OK, I accept that my views may not carry the football knowledge that you doubters seem to have but just how would getting rid of another manager to add to the two that have left in the last 18 months, just how is that going to help the team. You will no doubt point out that we were ok when Sanchez left but RH got lucky and we survived but it was a very close call and really, can you see us being that lucky again? as others have said, just who would you bring in. Those managers that are available who have Premiership experience do not exactly inspire us do they? Or would you take a chance on someone who has no experience in The Premier. No, as far as I am concerned, we have to stick with what we have, there has been far too many changes of late and one more would prove fatal imo.
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 10, 2011, 09:03:06 PM
...OK Jambo, you are entitled to believe in Jol, I hope you are right.
A couple of questions though, maybe you can give me some hope in your replies:-
1) If he needs to replace this ageing squad, how many players do we need to replace?
2) How much money do you think we would need to replace those players?
3) How much money do you think MAF will stump up to replace those players.
4) As these are experienced players on their way out, do you think we will replace them with younger players of similar abilities?
5) Do you think because of the inflated costs of premiership players that have experience we will search Dutch leagues for example, and would you not be concerned that they will need time to get up to speed in the top flight?
By the way, opinions are not necessarily based on jumping on bandwagons, they are sometimes based on what we see and interpret, and what causes concern for the future of the club; we have played 28 games to date, quite a few against weaker teams in Europa, and I have seen nothing that makes me think Jol is the answer. Yes we have had games where we have been unlucky, but we have had more where we have looked a shambles, is that down to the manager of the team, or the players age? Are all the players letting him down or just two or three of the more experienced - and if just those few experienced, why play them..?
Firstly, one of the reasons why I think it is important to back Jol is because I do think he has a proven record and is a good manager and secondly, is because sacking the manager is not always the answer. We've had to many in the last few years and no matter how many times you change a manager there will be period of transition when the manager tries to bring in his own players, staff and ideas. Sometimes it just feels that if you don't hit the ground running you're gone.
To try and answer some of your questions:-
1) Replacing an ageing squad does not happen in 1 or even 2 transfer windows. The work started in the summer and I'm sure it will continue next month and also into next summer and there in lies the problem, no one has the patience for that because everyone wants instant success and are willing to go through as many managers as they can until someone does get that good start. I think 3 new additions in Jan with the likes of a £50k a week player leaving freeing up funds.
2) I don't know. I won't speculate on our finances, I'm not sure any of us can.
3) As above. But IF we were to receive £10m for BZ and AJ freeing up a reported £90k a week in wages, not sure if it would be any.
4) Younger players yes but players that will fit into more of a system that Jol wants to play and are used to. If we have a certain player(s) that don't like a formation a manger want to play should that stop him playing it? Is that a sign of strength or weakness?
5) Who knows how far and wide our scounting net goes. I wouldn't be to quick to catorgrise all players by the leagues they play in (Suarez and Dembele were fine from the Dutch League and Hangeland was fine from the Norwegian League).
I appreciate all opinions on here and that's why its the best Fulham board around and if I need to apologise for using the word Band wagon I will. I have seen enough to know that Jol wants Fulham to play a new way that some of the players are adapting to. Against Spurs, Wisla, Everton and Arsenal I thought we were superb (I appricaite that we lost 2 of those games but lets face it we were by far the better sides).
Just on your last point... He didn't play him!
I hope that this has given you some hope! Onwards and Upwards and more debating!
Other than getting sacked everywhere he has been (or hiding it as a mututal "agreement") please let me know what Jol actually has achieved.
He is a well known underperformer (except at Spurs in the beginning). His last effort at Ajax was so poor that the players revolted. Sounds familiar?
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 10:00:01 PM
Other than getting sacked everywhere he has been (or hiding it as a mututal "agreement") please let me know what Jol actually has achieved.
He is a well known underperformer (except at Spurs in the beginning). His last effort at Ajax was so poor that the players revolted. Sounds familiar?
In his 1 full season at Ajax...Ajax finished second in the league last term, a point behind Twente, scoring 106 goals and with a goal difference of plus 86. Not to bad, sounds pretty attacking too.
At Hamburg he wasn't sacked he was offered the Ajax job and he took it....Jol, who took Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur to the brink of the Champions League qualifying places, was appointed Hamburg coach last summer and led the club to a fifth-place finish in the recently-completed Bundesliga campaign. Since he led them to a fifth place they have finish 7th and 8th and are currently 11th.
Not a bad track record actually.
The 53-year-old also guided Hamburg to a UEFA Cup semi-final, but lost to German rivals Werder Bremen.
Quote from: Jambo on December 10, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 10:00:01 PM
Other than getting sacked everywhere he has been (or hiding it as a mututal "agreement") please let me know what Jol actually has achieved.
He is a well known underperformer (except at Spurs in the beginning). His last effort at Ajax was so poor that the players revolted. Sounds familiar?
In his 1 full season at Ajax...Ajax finished second in the league last term, a point behind Twente, scoring 106 goals and with a goal difference of plus 86. Not to bad, sounds pretty attacking too.
At Hamburg he wasn't sacked he was offered the Ajax job and he took it....Jol, who took Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur to the brink of the Champions League qualifying places, was appointed Hamburg coach last summer and led the club to a fifth-place finish in the recently-completed Bundesliga campaign. Since he led them to a fifth place they have finish 7th and 8th and are currently 11th.
Not a bad track record actually.
The 53-year-old also guided Hamburg to a UEFA Cup semi-final, but lost to German rivals Werder Bremen.
I reckon my 80 year old mother can manage Ajax and finish second in that league.
And as far as Hamburg goes he was forced to leave because the players hated him and they faded badly in the league. Taking the other job was simply jumping on it before it was an early bath. The writing was on the wall. Just ask our German fans if you do not believe me.
Please stop naming Steve Bruce. What a disaster he would be. Spending lots on ex Man Utd-players and use training methods that get players injured in masses. How many times haven't he used that as a exuse for his poor performanes at Sunderland.
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: Jambo on December 10, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 10:00:01 PM
Other than getting sacked everywhere he has been (or hiding it as a mututal "agreement") please let me know what Jol actually has achieved.
He is a well known underperformer (except at Spurs in the beginning). His last effort at Ajax was so poor that the players revolted. Sounds familiar?
In his 1 full season at Ajax...Ajax finished second in the league last term, a point behind Twente, scoring 106 goals and with a goal difference of plus 86. Not to bad, sounds pretty attacking too.
At Hamburg he wasn't sacked he was offered the Ajax job and he took it....Jol, who took Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur to the brink of the Champions League qualifying places, was appointed Hamburg coach last summer and led the club to a fifth-place finish in the recently-completed Bundesliga campaign. Since he led them to a fifth place they have finish 7th and 8th and are currently 11th.
Not a bad track record actually.
The 53-year-old also guided Hamburg to a UEFA Cup semi-final, but lost to German rivals Werder Bremen.
I reckon my 80 year old mother can manage Ajax and finish second in that league.
And as far as Hamburg goes he was forced to leave because the players hated him and they faded badly in the league. Taking the other job was simply jumping on it before it was an early bath. The writing was on the wall. Just ask our German fans if you do not believe me.
You've made your mind up already so no matter what I say won't change that. I don't believe everything I read in the press and I don't know any German fans so I'll just deal with the facts (Rafa?), which everything I said before were.
jambo i respect your entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. jol has messed up the best defence fulham ever had and now he's pissed off our only centre forward. he should go before the team totally falls apart.
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Keep after them Jambo!
Quote from: bigalffc on December 10, 2011, 10:58:48 PM
jambo i respect your entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. jol has messed up the best defence fulham ever had and now he's pissed off our only centre forward. he should go before the team totally falls apart.
Presuming you mean the defence we had under Hodgson, Hughes sold Konchesky and also forced Pantsil out (yes I'm aware Jol was in charge when he left).
So this myth about Jol messing up our defence is utterly guff.
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Graham Taylor for starters. Perhaps as a tag team with Dany Murphy. There are loads out there. Don't stick your head in the sand. What we are doing right now is not working. That is obvious. Get rid of the cancer whilst we can.
guff is it Moony?
"BREDE Hangeland has urged boss Martin Jol to stop chopping and changing Fulham's backline.
The Whites have used EIGHT different defenders already this season, with the Norwegian the only ever-present in the Premier League".
Quote from: bigalffc on December 10, 2011, 11:18:18 PM
guff is it Moony?
"BREDE Hangeland has urged boss Martin Jol to stop chopping and changing Fulham's backline.
The Whites have used EIGHT different defenders already this season, with the Norwegian the only ever-present in the Premier League".
And what are you to do when
Grygera is injured
Hughes is injured
Senderos is injured
Briggs is injured
Mrs Riise has a baby
Baird has personal issues
Answers????
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Graham Taylor for starters. Perhaps as a tag team with Dany Murphy. There are loads out there. Don't stick your head in the sand. What we are doing right now is not working. That is obvious. Get rid of the cancer whilst we can.
Graham Taylor? When was he last in the game? You have spent most of tonight slagging of Jol's past and you come up with Graham Taylor. WOW. Each to their own. I will bite my bottom lip and accept your opinion.
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Graham Taylor for starters. Perhaps as a tag team with Dany Murphy. There are loads out there. Don't stick your head in the sand. What we are doing right now is not working. That is obvious. Get rid of the cancer whilst we can.
DO I NOT LIKE THAT
:005:
Cor, you come up with some crackers you do Finster.
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:36:00 PM
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Graham Taylor for starters. Perhaps as a tag team with Dany Murphy. There are loads out there. Don't stick your head in the sand. What we are doing right now is not working. That is obvious. Get rid of the cancer whilst we can.
DO I NOT LIKE THAT
:005:
Cor, you come up with some crackers you do Finster.
Glad I am entertaining you.
I am watching Lawrie Sanchez Part Two at the moment, and I do not like this Jol movie any better than the first one
WE CAN'T KEEP CHANGING THE MANAGER!
What if the next bloke comes in and finds it hard to impose himself on an ageing team that needs freshening up? What if the new manager takes six months to get his ideas across? What if the ageing clique within the side - the players we need to replace - make life tricky for that manager?
You're back to square one again!
There seem to be three types of managers:
really good ones
ones in the middle
bad ones
Jol's obviously not a bad manager and might even be a good one. Are we suggesting that after a handful of games in which he's had to begin a rebuilding project, we're going to give up already?
If Jose Mourinho's begging for the job then fine. But absent something like that we have to give him time. Otherwise what's the point? Every manager has to come in and do well instantly or else? That'll help us attract good managers won't it?
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 11:40:16 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:36:00 PM
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Graham Taylor for starters. Perhaps as a tag team with Dany Murphy. There are loads out there. Don't stick your head in the sand. What we are doing right now is not working. That is obvious. Get rid of the cancer whilst we can.
DO I NOT LIKE THAT
:005:
Cor, you come up with some crackers you do Finster.
Glad I am entertaining you.
I am watching Lawrie Sanchez Part Two at the moment, and I do not like this Jol movie any better than the first one
You can't compare Sanchez to Jol. Come off it. Lets have a debate about it but that's ridiculous. If you get your way and Jol goes, trust me his next job will not be at Barnet or alike.
Nothing wrong with Barnet except the manager. Just like Fulham.
I am sure our House Martin will end up on his feet in Freiburg or something.
...money attracts managers Richie, pure and simple, location helps and being in the premiership is also attractive.
Also I presume from what some people are saying is that Jol is the last manager left on the planet, so if does turn out to be useless (I know, he won't) we are doomed because all the other half decent managers don't exist.
This being the case lets hope he saves us from relegation and lives to be manager for at least 20 years.
I do agree that stability should be important - now remind me how many managers have we had in the last 13 years...
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 10, 2011, 11:52:25 PM
...money attracts managers Richie, pure and simple, location helps and being in the premiership is also attractive.
Also I presume from what some people are saying is that Jol is the last manager left on the planet, so if does turn out to be useless (I know, he won't) we are doomed because all the other half decent managers don't exist.
This being the case lets hope he saves us from relegation and lives to be manager for at least 20 years.
I do agree that stability should be important - now remind me how many managers have we had in the last 13 years...
.
Not saying he is the last one but, personally, I am interested, like the others, in finding out who you would replace him with, if you would replace him at all?
...sad to say I don't know, but I don't have extensive knowledge and a book of contacts, I did not choose any of the previous 10 managers (or any before that) so I am not qualified to say.
It still doesn't mean that I am not entitled to be concerned about how we are playing football.
Oh, and I don't play football manager, so how the hell can I have a valid opinion on anything..?
Jol is going nowhere. He has very carefully leaked enough to the press to ensure that there's a ready-made bad guy(s) to take the blame for Fulham's underperforming this season. With scapegoats firmly in place, and with the majority of supporters -- certainly on this board -- buying the carefully crafted excuse that everything wrong with the team is down to the selfishness/greediness/petulance of Murphy, Zamora, and AJ, Jol will not feel ANY pressure should we stay hovering around 15th most of the season.
What Jol is doing -- and doing it purposely -- is unraveling the cohesion of the team that Roy Hodgson has built. We certainly have more talented individuals than we did under Roy, but we don't have as good a team. I don't mind Jol remaking the team in his image. Had Hughes had the opportunity he would have, and certainly Hodgson did. I just wish that part and parcel of Jol's remaking is a reduction in fitness and fingerpointing on the part of management.
"Jol is going nowhere"
Time will tell. If we beat Bolton, we will probably be around 15th come the New Year. If we don't, we'll probably be bottom. How MAF will react to that remains to be seen - he has acted decisively before when it looked at though we might be relegated even, with LS, before Christmas.
Of course it would be good if we had a longish serving manager, as I guess we'd hoped would be the case with Roy. But the reality is that by and large we won't, for the same reason we don't have longish serving top quality players. As has been noted on another thread, we are a stepping stone club: if we have a promising player, as with Dembele, the more successful and better financed clubs circle. Ditto manager - Roy didn't leave us for WBA, and if Liverpool hadn't had a problem the likelihood is that he'd still be with us. Hughes chose to go, and had he not he'd surely still have been with us.
If Jol gets the sack, there are really just two options. Either we go for someone like him or Hughes, ie someone who will go at the drop of a better pay cheque/better financed club, or we go for someone much younger and untested/relatively untested, from whom we might get several years' loyalty as they hopefully build the kind of reputation that will, eventually, make them of interest to the big clubs. Personally I'd like to see Danny Murphy take over - from hearing him on several occasions he clearly understands the game, he certainly knows the strengths and weaknesses of the squad, and I've little doubt he'd get the best out of it. Three or four years with us, and IF he proves he can really do the job, he could take over at Liverpool and stick, unlike poor old Roy. And unlike Roy, he is young enough not to jump at the first better opportunity because he fears it will be his last, but has the time, and I suspect the character, to want to learnt the business and build a real reputation for himself before taking on a more demanding role.
Quote from: finnster01 on December 10, 2011, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr_Moon on December 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
Still waiting for some answers to who people who replace him with.
God this is tiresome.
Graham Taylor for starters. Perhaps as a tag team with Dany Murphy. There are loads out there. Don't stick your head in the sand. What we are doing right now is not working. That is obvious. Get rid of the cancer whilst we can.
064.gif 064.gif
The man who did the most damage to English football in his time as manager. If he turned up at the Cottage I wouldn't be responsible for my actions
Flipping eck! This is the first Prem away match in 4 that we've lost. Swansea have lost just once at home all season and we battered them for final 20 mins. I was actually quite positive about the game until I came on here!
Enjoyed the game and thought Ruiz and Frei both looked very good. Saw more attacking away from home than at any time under Roy.
Quote from: Scrumpy on December 11, 2011, 08:38:13 AM
Flipping eck! This is the first Prem away match in 4 that we've lost. Swansea have lost just once at home all season and we battered them for final 20 mins. I was actually quite positive about the game until I came on here!
Enjoyed the game and thought Ruiz and Frei both looked very good. Saw more attacking away from home than at any time under Roy.
Difference is Scrumpy by the sound of it you were actually at the game watching it whereas most of the Jol critics are watching from an armchair
Yeah that must be it. Fulham did some great attacking moves in the first half if you were live at the ground. Only on the streams did Fulham only go forward slowly on the odd breakaway in the first half.
The tactics if you were watching at the ground was to put pressure on the Swansea team not sit back and wait for breakaways. But people watching on stream saw a dour first half and a Fulham team who made no conserted attempt to go forward until after the own goal.
So yeah watching the game live at the ground and not on a stream gives yo the wrong idea. I was never aware it gave such a wrong idea. Stats mean nothing either. One shot off target and one shot on in the first half meant watching live Jol is a master tactician. Watching on a stream made him look a dull,cowardly tactician. Get Coat gif
Some of you just want a manager who is going to not upset and change the team.
Just want a yes man for the senior players.
Tell you what let Ray be coach and then let Bobby, Andy and Danny pick what they want.
They might all be able to get another couple of years worth of wages out of us.
As for anyone wanting Bruce as manager they need their head looked at, i suspect Megson is second choice for you.
Quote from: MJG on December 11, 2011, 10:17:15 AM
Some of you just want a manager who is going to not upset and change the team.
Just want a yes man for the senior players.
Tell you what let Ray be coach and then let Bobby, Andy and Danny pick what they want.
They might all be able to get another couple of years worth of wages out of us.
As for anyone wanting Bruce as manager they need their head looked at, i suspect Megson is second choice for you.
What is the point of any manager in any walk of life coming in and not using the strengths of the people under his command, what is the point of trying to play "your" way when the people you are managing are not suited to that role?
Quote from: MJG on December 11, 2011, 10:17:15 AM
Some of you just want a manager who is going to not upset and change the team.
Just want a yes man for the senior players.
Tell you what let Ray be coach and then let Bobby, Andy and Danny pick what they want.
They might all be able to get another couple of years worth of wages out of us.
As for anyone wanting Bruce as manager they need their head looked at, i suspect Megson is second choice for you.
Some of us want a manager who looks at his side and says to himself 'yes we can win today'. Not a manager who tells his team to make no effort in building an attack until we are behind. As a slogan to keep Jol and his duller than dull tactics. ' Who else is there?' Doesn't really make it sound he is doing a great job.
Quote from: epsomraver on December 11, 2011, 10:21:07 AM
Quote from: MJG on December 11, 2011, 10:17:15 AM
Some of you just want a manager who is going to not upset and change the team.
Just want a yes man for the senior players.
Tell you what let Ray be coach and then let Bobby, Andy and Danny pick what they want.
They might all be able to get another couple of years worth of wages out of us.
As for anyone wanting Bruce as manager they need their head looked at, i suspect Megson is second choice for you.
What is the point of any manager in any walk of life coming in and not using the strengths of the people under his command, what is the point of trying to play "your" way when the people you are managing are not suited to that role?
Could not agree more a good manager molds their tactics to the players they have until they are able to bring in "their players" . Reading back and having a look a bit further in to Ajax and Hamburg situations this is exactly what he has done before and lost the dressing room. I am not saying that player power is the way forward but neither is being a stubborn dictator.
We are at a crossroads in January. Say good bye to an ageing squad that has given us so much and give Jol a blank cheque or get rid of him before we lose the players that gave us the most successful team we have had in the Premiership.
I'm not sure I trust Jol with a blank cheque so cheerio
I don't think the results have been so bad that we need to fire Jol, and on occasion (2nd half vs Man City, vs Spurs) we've looked like a very good side.
But I'm still not convinced, and above all I really don't like the snide press conferences and the digs at players via the media. If he has a problem with Zamora or anyone else I don't see how thinly-veiled public attacks are going to help. Unless, as someone says above, he's doing it to set up players to take the blame for failure.
But Graham Taylor? Seriously? 064.gif
The question for me is: are we, however slowly and with however many blips along the way, getting better? I'm not 100% certain what my answer to that question is. If the answer is yes, or if the answer is unclear at the moment (which is where I am on the question), my preference would be to stick with Jol for a few more games unless there's an obviously better candidate lined up, ready to come in. Otherwise, even with someone marginally better coming in, we've got another period of short-medium term unrest ahead with the possible consequences for our league position.
If we've been as bad as we're going to be under Jol and we're 14th, then it's a slightly hairy but probably mostly rather dull season ahead, with the hope of something better next year (I'm sick of transitional seasons, but I think transitional is about as good as it's going to get this year; nevertheless, I'm happy(ish) to stick it out with the present manager if we're going in the right direction).
Frankly, this is the most ridiculous thread I have seen in recent times on this board.
As has been pointed out, we lost, away from home, for the first time in three. We were not outplayed and could easily have gotten a draw.
People calling for Jol's head look to me like a bunch of whiny children. The squad is improving and moving forward - we drew with Arsenal and beat a Liverpool team on form. We have a home game that is very winnable next, as well as a chance to have a go at a flailing Manchester United. We have looked excellent at points this season (even without Zamora) and have been far more progressive on the road than in recent times.
It seems some on this board refuse to see the positives at all. It is all doom and gloom and it is all the fat dutchman's fault. Jol is the worst manager since sanchez. Lets bring in Graham Taylor. Jesus Christ, some people should take a look in the mirror and take a few deep breaths. We lost away from home, if you are not used to this by now, why are you a Fulham fan?
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:36:26 PM
I'm sorry but no manager has made this angry since Sanchez.
That's quite an easy statement to make though when we've only had two managers since Sanchez and we were very fortunate with them both. Hughes had us in a worse situation than this up until Boxing day. Under Hughes we had only won twice and only our win against Wigan was convincing. Given time though he turned it round.
Quote from: Jimpav on December 11, 2011, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Admin on December 10, 2011, 08:36:26 PM
I'm sorry but no manager has made this angry since Sanchez.
That's quite an easy statement to make though when we've only had two managers since Sanchez and we were very fortunate with them both. Hughes had us in a worse situation than this up until Boxing day. Under Hughes we had only won twice and only our win against Wigan was convincing. Given time though he turned it round.
But Hughes met with the players, listened to their concerns and things changed, JOl is too arrogant to do that.
...having a point of view that differs from yours is whiny AFC? Heaven forfend, we mustn't have that on a message board!
Let's form a three line whip to ensure such opinions do not see the light of day...
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 11, 2011, 11:43:33 AM
...having a point of view that differs from yours is whiny AFC? Heaven forfend, we mustn't have that on a message board!
Let's form a three line whip to ensure such opinions do not see the light of day...
Yes. The people screaming for the fat dutchman's head do seem whiny.
Last time I looked, we were not in the relegation zone, had been playing well and the new players were integrating into the team.
We lose one match to a team unbeaten at home this season, and dont even lose badly, and people come back out the woodwork and moan.
It was a frustrating loss, but if you cannot hack it, I ask again,
why do you support Fulham?
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on December 11, 2011, 11:47:29 AM
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 11, 2011, 11:43:33 AM
...having a point of view that differs from yours is whiny AFC? Heaven forfend, we mustn't have that on a message board!
Let's form a three line whip to ensure such opinions do not see the light of day...
Yes. The people screaming for the fat dutchman's head do seem whiny.
Last time I looked, we were not in the relegation zone, had been playing well and the new players were integrating into the team.
We lose one match to a team unbeaten at home this season, and dont even lose badly, and people come back out the woodwork and moan.
It was a frustrating loss, but if you cannot hack it, I ask again, why do you support Fulham?
Because there has been a team long before you were a twinkle in your dad's eye and a lot on here have been supporting them through thick and a hell of a lot of thin, don't insult people just because you don't like their point of view. Fulham have become boring to watch, no individual skills any more , boring possession all the time, so lucky Monday night, but they are Fulham a team I have supported for nearly 50 years. I don't like the way we we are playing but that does not make me any less a supporter
...AFC, obviously in your eyes I don't, you have made your mind up that anyone who sees things differently is a whining person and should not be in your eyes a fan of Fulham.
Your opinion.
I will say on a personal level that I have probably seen more crap teams and managers than you have, yet I still go to games, I still shout for my team, irrespective how we play, and still feel free to air my views, whether positive or negative post match.
If you cannot hack that - why do you look at posts that differ from your opinions.
By the way, I have not at any points asked for his head, or asked for him to be sacked, I am expressing my unhappiness of performances of a team that Jol manages, but read it how you want...
Quote from: epsomraver on December 11, 2011, 12:00:29 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on December 11, 2011, 11:47:29 AM
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 11, 2011, 11:43:33 AM
...having a point of view that differs from yours is whiny AFC? Heaven forfend, we mustn't have that on a message board!
Let's form a three line whip to ensure such opinions do not see the light of day...
Yes. The people screaming for the fat dutchman's head do seem whiny.
Last time I looked, we were not in the relegation zone, had been playing well and the new players were integrating into the team.
We lose one match to a team unbeaten at home this season, and dont even lose badly, and people come back out the woodwork and moan.
It was a frustrating loss, but if you cannot hack it, I ask again, why do you support Fulham?
Because there has been a team long before you were a twinkle in your dad's eye and a lot on here have been supporting them through thick and a hell of a lot of thin, don't insult people just because you don't like their point of view. Fulham have become boring to watch, no individual skills any more , boring possession all the time, so lucky Monday night, but they are Fulham a team I have supported for nearly 50 years. I don't like the way we we are playing but that does not me any less a supporter
So many know it all olds on here. Congratulations, you were born before me, that doesn't mean you are automatically right.
People are welcome to criticise Jol, but have some perspective. You make it sound as though this is Fulham's lowest ebb?
In actual fact we are simply underperforming in the league whilst changing the team.
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 11, 2011, 12:05:18 PM
...AFC, obviously in your eyes I don't, you have made your mind up that anyone who sees things differently is a whining person and should not be in your eyes a fan of Fulham.
Your opinion.
I will say on a personal level that I have probably seen more crap teams and managers than you have, yet I still go to games, I still shout for my team, irrespective how we play, and still feel free to air my views, whether positive or negative post match.
If you cannot hack that - why do you look at posts that differ from your opinions.
By the way, I have not at any points asked for his head, or asked for him to be sacked, I am expressing my unhappiness of performances of a team that Jol manages, but read it how you want...
Again, you are putting words in my mouth.
Nowhere have I said that you cannot criticise Jol, I have simply said that to ignore all the positives and claim that Fulham are in crisis and this is the worst team ever etc etc makes people sound like whiny petulant children.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on December 11, 2011, 12:07:49 PM
Quote from: LBNo11 on December 11, 2011, 12:05:18 PM
...AFC, obviously in your eyes I don't, you have made your mind up that anyone who sees things differently is a whining person and should not be in your eyes a fan of Fulham.
Your opinion.
I will say on a personal level that I have probably seen more crap teams and managers than you have, yet I still go to games, I still shout for my team, irrespective how we play, and still feel free to air my views, whether positive or negative post match.
If you cannot hack that - why do you look at posts that differ from your opinions.
By the way, I have not at any points asked for his head, or asked for him to be sacked, I am expressing my unhappiness of performances of a team that Jol manages, but read it how you want...
Again, you are putting words in my mouth.
Nowhere have I said that you cannot criticise Jol, I have simply said that to ignore all the positives and claim that Fulham are in crisis and this is the worst team ever etc etc makes people sound like whiny petulant children.
...I fail to see how I am putting words into your mouth? Anyway, happy for you that you can see all those positives, and sad that you think that people expressing concerns are whiny children.
My final comment as I'd hate to appear to be whining...
Under Jol we waited until we were losing against Spuds AND Man City before we started to play. In fact other than QPR that has been his only tactic. Try and defend and soak up pressure and attack on the break. If we get lucky like the Wigan game we are fine.
I don't want to see a talented side wait to see what happens. People keep telling me that we are no worse than last season. Well with the money paid out for players and players not wanting to play, I am not sure how true that is. Let Jol manage and sod the old guard is another refrain. Fine but if the tactic of not going forward and the fact we play to none of our players strength means watching this Fulham side under perform. What are the 'positives' Jol has brought to the table?
Quote from: Lighthouse on December 11, 2011, 12:24:38 PM
Under Jol we waited until we were losing against Spuds AND Man City before we started to play. In fact other than QPR that has been his only tactic. Try and defend and soak up pressure and attack on the break. If we get lucky like the Wigan game we are fine.
I don't want to see a talented side wait to see what happens. People keep telling me that we are no worse than last season. Well with the money paid out for players and players not wanting to play, I am not sure how true that is. Let Jol manage and sod the old guard is another refrain. Fine but if the tactic of not going forward and the fact we play to none of our players strength means watching this Fulham side under perform. What are the 'positives' Jol has brought to the table?
totally agree with you.
It's morning in USA, getting caught up...M. AFC, it is not the loss that hurts so much, it is the manner of the loss. The team was useless yesterday. The game was awful. Tickets aint cheap these days. 40 or 50 quid for that rubbish, do me a favour.
managers....what about Keegan? his tub thumping will get the players going. Good jobs done with Newcastle, Fulham and City. Afetr all, Liverpool took Dalglish out of retirement. If Fulham in bottom 3 jan 1, will do a good rescue job.
Strachan is useful too. (he quit southampton and middlesborough before the stuff hit the fan, neither was his fault).
http://www.eplindex.com/swansea-city-20-fulham/ (http://www.eplindex.com/swansea-city-20-fulham/)
Quote from: epsomraver on December 11, 2011, 01:17:38 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on December 11, 2011, 12:24:38 PM
Under Jol we waited until we were losing against Spuds AND Man City before we started to play. In fact other than QPR that has been his only tactic. Try and defend and soak up pressure and attack on the break. If we get lucky like the Wigan game we are fine.
I don't want to see a talented side wait to see what happens. People keep telling me that we are no worse than last season. Well with the money paid out for players and players not wanting to play, I am not sure how true that is. Let Jol manage and sod the old guard is another refrain. Fine but if the tactic of not going forward and the fact we play to none of our players strength means watching this Fulham side under perform. What are the 'positives' Jol has brought to the table?
totally agree with you.
I seem to remember that was also a criticism justifiably levelled at Hodgson - wait until we are one down away before starting to play - and things didnt turn out to bad in the end.
I agree that it is frustrating but calling for his head after 15 league is imho madness.
Quote from: Lighthouse on December 11, 2011, 10:27:21 AM
Quote from: MJG on December 11, 2011, 10:17:15 AM
Some of you just want a manager who is going to not upset and change the team.
Just want a yes man for the senior players.
Tell you what let Ray be coach and then let Bobby, Andy and Danny pick what they want.
They might all be able to get another couple of years worth of wages out of us.
As for anyone wanting Bruce as manager they need their head looked at, i suspect Megson is second choice for you.
Some of us want a manager who looks at his side and says to himself 'yes we can win today'. Not a manager who tells his team to make no effort in building an attack until we are behind. As a slogan to keep Jol and his duller than dull tactics. ' Who else is there?' Doesn't really make it sound he is doing a great job.
I find it amazing how many people seem to be allowed in to listen to team talks, tell me Lighthouse what were the words he used to tell the players to make no effort, what was the players reaction when he told them that, i am sorry i find these sort of comments farcical, have an opinion by all means but don't say you know what or what has not been said.
We have the worst fans in the league.
We're not even in the relegation zone and we're in meltdown.
So alfie you are saying that the players disregarded the tactics given to them by Jol on every away game? I find it farcical that we are even having this debate. A manager who has had the Europa games as well as the Prem games to decide the way he would ike his team to play. He sets up the side and on every away game they play this way. Yet that isn't his tactics?
Fulham play on the break away from home and do it very poorly. I tend to think Fulham are better than Swansea so feel frustrated when we don't try to win from the off but try not to concede. Not sure what is more farcical. The way we play or the way people want to continue to defend Jol and his tactics. Roy was governed by the team he had. Hughes tried to attack. Jol has spent money on a clever attaking player who has most of his work as a defender for us. Same with Dembele. Yet it is clear the team can do well going forward or at least create chances. I know this because we do every time we are chasing the game.
During this club's previous flirtation with Jol (prior to the Hughes appointment) I expressed my total lack of enthusiasm on this board. I wasn't overly enthused with the appearance of Team Hughes either, but he turned things round after a fashion. Re-visiting the Jolly Boy hasn't done us any great favours, and I honestly don't see much scope for improvement.
Two points that interest me though. Hughes quit citing lack of ambition. Was he right? As for funds in the January window, what sort of level are we talking about? Given recent history, probably not very much despite MALF's much trumpeted support for the incoming manager..... and given Jol's 'spends' so far, I doubt the purse strings will loosen too much.
JOL IS NOT, AND NEVER WAS. THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB. :dead horse:
I'm not happy and certainly not convinced but Jol has a good CV and a difficult job to do.
Making minimal change to an aging team would have seemed OK for maybe another year or two but would have been a disaster soon enough.
I think he has to be given time and hope that he gets it right. A kneejerk sacking in favour of someone like Keegan or Strachan could work (who knows) but the replacement would be someone with failures on their records.
If (and it is only an if) he's facing a player revolt it's likely because players fear for their places and are trying to force him out and to give way would set an awful precedent.
Whatever Zamora thinks he isn't contributing and we're currently without Grygera, Baird, Murphy, Sidwell and Duff. That's a big hole in a small squad and notwithstanding yesterday the results recently taken as a whole have been OK.
Blimey...go away for a weekend and all hell breaks out.
I am not sure why calling for Jol's head is going to end up with us being in a better situation.
Whoever comes in will have to:
1. Deal with an ageing squad.
2. Start blooding in some of the promising talent we have emerging from the reserves.
3. Have time to get their tactics to work.
4. Cope with injuries.
5. Do all of this with a core of players who are probably resisting any change.
Anyone would think we are cut adrift from the bottom, whereas the reality is we are as far from the relegation zone as we are from 10th place.
Keep the faith.
COYW
If Jol stays and we start next season in the Premiership, and especially if we have a good second half to this season and start next season promisingly, then those who currently support Jol will be vindicated, and those like me wishing he would get the push now will be glad to admit we were wrong.
But if Jol stays and we go down, it will be his and ultimately MAF's fault, because with a number of weakish sides in the Premiership you'd have to be a total clown as a manager to get Fulham relegated this season, given the strength of the squad. At that point those of us urging that Jol gets the push now will be able to say we told you so, though of course that will be no recompense for the prospect of a season or longer in the Championship.
Basically its MAF's call and no one else's. He's been right with every such call to date, so let's hope he gets it right this time.
If he makes the players practice penalties and plays Frei more I will be happier. I'm content with Jol for now. I'm sure we'll come good soon like we did under Hughes. Agree with others though, there is no one on the job market I'd rather have than Jol at the moment.
At the end of the day we are in a better position this season then we were last under Hughes. We are always bad away from home yet this season it seems we have improved in that department. However I for one blame Jol for yesterday. His negative, defensive tactics cost us the game and he keeps going on about our attacking qualities yet we are not seeing them!!!
Quote from: Lighthouse on December 11, 2011, 03:34:00 PM
So alfie you are saying that the players disregarded the tactics given to them by Jol on every away game? I find it farcical that we are even having this debate. A manager who has had the Europa games as well as the Prem games to decide the way he would ike his team to play. He sets up the side and on every away game they play this way. Yet that isn't his tactics?
Fulham play on the break away from home and do it very poorly. I tend to think Fulham are better than Swansea so feel frustrated when we don't try to win from the off but try not to concede. Not sure what is more farcical. The way we play or the way people want to continue to defend Jol and his tactics. Roy was governed by the team he had. Hughes tried to attack. Jol has spent money on a clever attaking player who has most of his work as a defender for us. Same with Dembele. Yet it is clear the team can do well going forward or at least create chances. I know this because we do every time we are chasing the game.
LIghthouse sorry if i came across as having a go at you, it is just we have no idea what is said in the dressing room,
yesterday for instance we had no midfield, Digger is a great player but he is no central midfield player, the manager and teams first duty is not to concede, he had to protect the defence with very little in the middle, and in the 2nd half we came up yet again against a keeper on top of his game, and to be honest i thought we at the very least deserved a draw, the goals yesterday were not down to tactcis and own goal that would have been saved in CD had not stuck his leg out, their 2nd goal in my humble opinion Hangers got far to close to his man and this allowed him to use Hangers body to swivel, and we missed a penalty.
Anyway we all have our views and opinions but with one thing in common Fulham FC.
My mate who is a Chelsea supporter felt we lost it when we missed the penalty, if we had got that he felt we deserved a draw. Said we should practice penalties, i agree
No penalty training necessary. We should do our homework and figure out who on the pitch has a stellar record of scoring from the penalty spot and who hasn't. We had a man who is a proven penalty scorer out there.
That was a total rubbish decision to have Demps having a go at that. :035:
Quote from: finnster01 on December 11, 2011, 08:41:37 PM
No penalty training necessary. We should do our homework and figure out who on the pitch has a stellar record of scoring from the penalty spot and who hasn't. We had a man who is a proven penalty scorer out there.
That was a total rubbish decision to have Demps having a go at that. :035:
Guess you mean Andy Johnson?
I think he's had one pen for us and missed it although he used to do it all the time at Palace. Maybe he lost a bit of confidence in taking them.
I have had a bit of time out. Looking at the table and the games this week-end, the reason Norwich and Swansea are above Fulham is they treat every game as a 6 point game, they treat every game as a cup tie. Can anyone say that Fulham did that, not only yesterday but in games against Blackburn, Villa, etc. There is no way Swansea, Norwich (and Villa) are better than Fulham but they fight for points. Hopefully, class will tell by the end of the season.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on December 11, 2011, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: finnster01 on December 11, 2011, 08:41:37 PM
No penalty training necessary. We should do our homework and figure out who on the pitch has a stellar record of scoring from the penalty spot and who hasn't. We had a man who is a proven penalty scorer out there.
That was a total rubbish decision to have Demps having a go at that. :035:
Guess you mean Andy Johnson?
I think he's had one pen for us and missed it although he used to do it all the time at Palace. Maybe he lost a bit of confidence in taking them.
Maybe you are right mate, but with his record at Palace I would be surprised if one miss against Swindon would destroy his confidence.
In any event, I'm pretty sure you would agree that having AJ take it over Clint is literally a no brainer.
Quote from: finnster01 on December 11, 2011, 09:23:36 PM
Quote from: Jack Fulham on December 11, 2011, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: finnster01 on December 11, 2011, 08:41:37 PM
No penalty training necessary. We should do our homework and figure out who on the pitch has a stellar record of scoring from the penalty spot and who hasn't. We had a man who is a proven penalty scorer out there.
That was a total rubbish decision to have Demps having a go at that. :035:
Guess you mean Andy Johnson?
I think he's had one pen for us and missed it although he used to do it all the time at Palace. Maybe he lost a bit of confidence in taking them.
Maybe you are right mate, but with his record at Palace I would be surprised if one miss against Swindon would destroy his confidence.
In any event, I'm pretty sure you would agree that having AJ take it over Clint is literally a no brainer.
Yup, I had zero confidence in Clint scoring it to be honest, after his pen against Chelsea, his pen against Stoke which wasn't great although he scored and because Vorm has a reputation for saving penalties. Clint hit it at a perfect height for him as well.
soz but Danny should be taking the pens..... LEE CLARK THERES ONLY ONE LEE CLARK... LEE CLARKS BLACK AND WHITE ARMY SOUNDS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Quote from: mikie on December 11, 2011, 10:27:16 PM
soz but Danny should be taking the pens..... LEE CLARK THERES ONLY ONE LEE CLARK... LEE CLARKS BLACK AND WHITE ARMY SOUNDS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Hard for Danny to take the penalty when he's back in London crocked.
Certainly if anyone's to blame for Dempsey taking the penalty it's either Jol or Hangeland. The coach makes those calls before the game, and if he doesn't, it's up to the captain.
You know something's rotten in Denmark when all I have to say about the matter is "meh!".
This season seems to have sewn as seed of apathy inside of me. If the team can't be bothered to play football, I can't be bothered to go and watch them do it. When I start thinking about giving up my season ticket, it's usually because I'm not happy with the manager and the direction the club.
I don't think I'll be at the Cottage on Wednesday or Saturday.
Quote from: HatterDon on December 12, 2011, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: mikie on December 11, 2011, 10:27:16 PM
soz but Danny should be taking the pens..... LEE CLARK THERES ONLY ONE LEE CLARK... LEE CLARKS BLACK AND WHITE ARMY SOUNDS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Hard for Danny to take the penalty when he's back in London crocked.
Certainly if anyone's to blame for Dempsey taking the penalty it's either Jol or Hangeland. The coach makes those calls before the game, and if he doesn't, it's up to the captain.
let duffer take
Quote from: HatterDon on December 12, 2011, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: mikie on December 11, 2011, 10:27:16 PM
soz but Danny should be taking the pens..... LEE CLARK THERES ONLY ONE LEE CLARK... LEE CLARKS BLACK AND WHITE ARMY SOUNDS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Hard for Danny to take the penalty when he's back in London crocked.
Certainly if anyone's to blame for Dempsey taking the penalty it's either Jol or Hangeland. The coach makes those calls before the game, and if he doesn't, it's up to the captain.
Assuming he is on the pitch, I would opt for Davies. He seems to have the temperament for it
Quote from: RidgeRider on December 13, 2011, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on December 12, 2011, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: mikie on December 11, 2011, 10:27:16 PM
soz but Danny should be taking the pens..... LEE CLARK THERES ONLY ONE LEE CLARK... LEE CLARKS BLACK AND WHITE ARMY SOUNDS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Hard for Danny to take the penalty when he's back in London crocked.
Certainly if anyone's to blame for Dempsey taking the penalty it's either Jol or Hangeland. The coach makes those calls before the game, and if he doesn't, it's up to the captain.
Assuming he is on the pitch, I would opt for Davies. He seems to have the temperament for it
ABC
Anyone But Clint...
I am not sure why but he just doesn't have the pace and precision when it comes to taking penalties.
Agree about Davies...
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 12, 2011, 08:56:10 AM
You know something's rotten in Denmark when all I have to say about the matter is "meh!".
This season seems to have sewn as seed of apathy inside of me. If the team can't be bothered to play football, I can't be bothered to go and watch them do it. When I start thinking about giving up my season ticket, it's usually because I'm not happy with the manager and the direction the club.
I don't think I'll be at the Cottage on Wednesday or Saturday.
A sad state of affairs Mr Eq sir...
Got to say that I have seen a lot worse in my 37 years of following the whites.
Quote from: Burt on December 13, 2011, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 12, 2011, 08:56:10 AM
You know something's rotten in Denmark when all I have to say about the matter is "meh!".
This season seems to have sewn as seed of apathy inside of me. If the team can't be bothered to play football, I can't be bothered to go and watch them do it. When I start thinking about giving up my season ticket, it's usually because I'm not happy with the manager and the direction the club.
I don't think I'll be at the Cottage on Wednesday or Saturday.
A sad state of affairs Mr Eq sir...
Got to say that I have seen a lot worse in my 37 years of following the whites.
Perhaps you've realized that the club is not as important to you as it once was.
Quote from: HatterDon on December 14, 2011, 05:13:20 AM
Quote from: Burt on December 13, 2011, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 12, 2011, 08:56:10 AM
You know something's rotten in Denmark when all I have to say about the matter is "meh!".
This season seems to have sewn as seed of apathy inside of me. If the team can't be bothered to play football, I can't be bothered to go and watch them do it. When I start thinking about giving up my season ticket, it's usually because I'm not happy with the manager and the direction the club.
I don't think I'll be at the Cottage on Wednesday or Saturday.
A sad state of affairs Mr Eq sir...
Got to say that I have seen a lot worse in my 37 years of following the whites.
Perhaps you've realized that the club is not as important to you as it once was.
You may have hit the nail on the head mate...
I hope we can do something this season (Cup Run, stay up before mid april etc) but I suspect we will look back on this year as a troubled season and a bit of a lost one. But if we can come out of it still in the Prem and with a fresher team then I think thats all we can ask for.
The quote "Perhaps you've realized that the club is not as important to you as it once was" is a very good one and I can relate to it a lot. It has entered my head that this could be the last season I buy a ST and this is partly down to cost and my interest in football at the level.
Quote from: MJG on December 14, 2011, 08:40:23 AM
I hope we can do something this season (Cup Run, stay up before mid april etc) but I suspect we will look back on this year as a troubled season and a bit of a lost one. But if we can come out of it still in the Prem and with a fresher team then I think thats all we can ask for.
The quote "Perhaps you've realized that the club is not as important to you as it once was" is a very good one and I can relate to it a lot. It has entered my head that this could be the last season I buy a ST and this is partly down to cost and my interest in football at the level.
I realise that cost does come into it, but isn't a bit like saying i'm only going to go when we do well, is that not what we call "glory hunters", i mean don't we shout at Chelsea supporters "where were you when things were Sh..."
If is really a cost factor then fully understand picking and choosing when you attend.
:bump:
this guy is ruining our team spirit.we have a great group of players and in the second half they looked like a bomb went off and every1 was in shock.Jol's motivation talk at half time must b absolutely shite.Iv been waiting for some change but this is going nowhere.how many time have we conceded in the last few minutes of the game??? This guy cant give instructions on the touch line.I am so angry. Give the job to that Croatian guy that MOF likes.Whats his face??
