Happy that we have strengthened our squad, but not sure whether much of the money from players sold has been re-invested in new players? Anybody want to put up a list of outs and ins and estimated fees?
Transfer market has it as spent £20.19mil and received £19.18mil.
Meaning a loss of £1.01mil.
Meaning we've barely invested anything and still managed to improve the entire squad.
What this means is that we have plenty of scope to spend in January if we need to.
While it is disappointing to again see us not really push the boat out and spend big, I think its been sensible and the players we now have are capable of top 10.
According to some link I saw last night we, apparently, were the 4th highest spender on £20m.
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
That's roughly what I thought, still the squad does look a lot better, onwards and upwards!!
Ridiculous. I'm not Khans biggest fan - his management of our club early on was appauling with the turnover of managers. The guy clearly hadn't grasped what it meant to run a club.
That said, since he's been at our club the one thing we've always been active with is our transfers, irregardless of whether they've been a success or not. He's made himself have to learn the hard way (which shouldn't have been the case) but this summer transfer window (minus perhaps one extra striker) I believe the club has handled itself well and revamped the team in a financially astute way. If we got promoted to the premiership and built a competitive team just by selling players we already had then I'd consider that a bonus. Especially when you consider how poor our team as a collective was last season.
In all reality we've got rid of a lot of dead weight this summer and brought in much better quality and in depth. He should be commended for allowing that to happen. Don't forget our overspend saw us have a transfer embargo so he's within his right to not want that to happen again.
It's the first summer we've had in a long time where new players coming in are regular and we've not been constantly frustrated by the lack of new faces at the club. We were all pining for a striker and in Martin we've got a proven striker in the league who apparently is good for scoring 15/20 goals a season. We have a very capable set of goalscoring midfielders too in Mcdonald, Cairney, Kebano etc and so all in all we really should be being a bit more positive. Adebayor is still a free agent. Although I do believe the guy seems a bit too destructive. Beforehand we had an owner who hardly ever wanted to spend money. I believe once we get back in to the premiership too we'll see a great deal more spending too thanks to the financial tv benefits.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
As far as I'm concerned splashing the cash proves nothing. You only have to look at our expensive failures of the past to see that that isn't a guarantee of success.
The one question I have asked myself is "Is our squad better now than it was at the end of last season?" and the answer is yes.
For the first time in years I am really looking forward to going to games. Ok, we may not win them all but at least we have a squad and a manager that will compete and give it all for the team and the fans.
Personally promotion would be too early this year but a play-off place would be ideal with further building next summer to go up at the end of that season.
COYW!!
Spending big money does not automatically guarantee success, as others have hinted in this thread. It's how you spend what you can afford to spend that counts.
Another £10bn spent on the NHS means nothing unless it is spent well. It's easy to pour money down the drain.
I am happy with our transfer dealings this summer and I still have faith in our Chairman.
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him
The man will tell us whatever we want to hear to sell tickets, we are naive if we still believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
I really do think the squad has improved, that much is clear, however I am tired of Khan taking us for mugs in regards to his communication and messages to the fans.
If he'd come out at the start of the window and said "we will buy carefully and try not to overspend" then he would of been telling the truth. But he knew that telling the truth wouldn't sell the same amount of tickets as a wild promise with no substance.
"Whatever is takes" was an outright lie.
What we have done this summer is buy carefully and improve the squad with cheap but useful players that have no doubt progressed us. What we haven't done this summer is "whatever it takes" to get promotion, which is what was promised.
Result of the window for me:
- Happy with the squad.
- Disappointed in the owner for yet more lies.
I think Mr Khan & his team have done a terrific job this window. To acquire the number of excellent players he has for a minimal outlay is to be applauded. It is not written in stone that unless one spends to the limit one has not been successful in the market.
We have learned over the last 10 years that spending big does not guarantee one a top player or success.
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him
The man will tell us whatever we want to hear to sell tickets, we are naive if we still believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
I really do think the squad has improved, that much is clear, however I am tired of Khan taking us for mugs in regards to his communication and messages to the fans.
If he'd come out at the start of the window and said "we will buy carefully and try not to overspend" then he would of been telling the truth. But he knew that telling the truth wouldn't sell the same amount of tickets as a wild promise with no substance.
"Whatever is takes" was an outright lie.
What we have done this summer is buy carefully and improve the squad with cheap but useful players that have no doubt progressed us. What we haven't done this summer is "whatever it takes" to get promotion, which is what was promised.
Result of the window for me:
- Happy with the squad.
- Disappointed in the owner for yet more lies.
I remember MAF telling us we would be the "Manchester United of the South". Was he lying to us just to sell tickets?
Quote from: grandad on September 01, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
I think Mr Khan & his team have done a terrific job this window. To acquire the number of excellent players he has for a minimal outlay is to be applauded. It is not written in stone that unless one spends to the limit one has not been successful in the market.
We have learned over the last 10 years that spending big does not guarantee one a top player or success.
Its not about the amount spent, its about the promises made. I agree we should applaud him had he come out and said " we will get a number of excellent players for a minimal outlay" but he didn't. His claim was that we will do "whatever it takes" to get promoted, he has not fulfilled that promise.
So no, I will not applaud a man for deceiving us to sell tickets.
People are keen to throw out the "spending big doesn't guarantee success" when that is completely beyond the point. The point is Khan promised to do something and that promise proved to be a lie.
Yes we now have a team capable of finishing around 10th, possibly at a push it could fight for the play offs.
Have we done "whatever it takes" to gain promotion? Not at all.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
If you're looking at wages then you should also look at gate receipts, sponsorship income and parachute payments on the other side. If you bothered to do some basic research you'd see these things roughly balance each other out (at least) and net transfer spend is therefore a reasonable indicator of what's coming from the chairman.
Wiggle room in January is irrelevant. FFP is now assessed over a rolling 3 yr period. So Currently our "wiggle room" is about £39m over that timeframe.
The chairman may well have spent "BIG" in 2014, I'll give you that. But not in 2016.
Anyway these arguments have been done to death. Time to move on and argue about who to play at right back.
So why, oh why do you keep making them.
The amount we loose is financed by the Chairman - that is his additional investment or not if we've made a profit
We cannot make a loss and then spend the chairmans money on top of that
Since we paid Dembele and some of the other deparures bu**er all - it is quite likely our wage bill has gone up. An extra 5k per week to a player adds 260k to our total wage bill and of we are giving away free tickets our gate reciepts are not going up.
If it is done over three seasons now and we are in sight of promotion - they could decide to risk all in January and take the 3 year loss then perhaps
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: cookieg on September 01, 2016, 12:13:58 PM
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him
The man will tell us whatever we want to hear to sell tickets, we are naive if we still believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
I really do think the squad has improved, that much is clear, however I am tired of Khan taking us for mugs in regards to his communication and messages to the fans.
If he'd come out at the start of the window and said "we will buy carefully and try not to overspend" then he would of been telling the truth. But he knew that telling the truth wouldn't sell the same amount of tickets as a wild promise with no substance.
"Whatever is takes" was an outright lie.
What we have done this summer is buy carefully and improve the squad with cheap but useful players that have no doubt progressed us. What we haven't done this summer is "whatever it takes" to get promotion, which is what was promised.
Result of the window for me:
- Happy with the squad.
- Disappointed in the owner for yet more lies.
I remember MAF telling us we would be the "Manchester United of the South". Was he lying to us just to sell tickets?
relatively speaking he delivered on that promise
Is that because we had lots of fans in the South??
And I certainly don't remember us challenging Chelsea or Arsenal as being the top club in London or the South.
Quote from: cookieg on September 01, 2016, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: cookieg on September 01, 2016, 12:13:58 PM
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him
The man will tell us whatever we want to hear to sell tickets, we are naive if we still believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
I really do think the squad has improved, that much is clear, however I am tired of Khan taking us for mugs in regards to his communication and messages to the fans.
If he'd come out at the start of the window and said "we will buy carefully and try not to overspend" then he would of been telling the truth. But he knew that telling the truth wouldn't sell the same amount of tickets as a wild promise with no substance.
"Whatever is takes" was an outright lie.
What we have done this summer is buy carefully and improve the squad with cheap but useful players that have no doubt progressed us. What we haven't done this summer is "whatever it takes" to get promotion, which is what was promised.
Result of the window for me:
- Happy with the squad.
- Disappointed in the owner for yet more lies.
I remember MAF telling us we would be the "Manchester United of the South". Was he lying to us just to sell tickets?
relatively speaking he delivered on that promise
Is that because we had lots of fans in the South??
And I certainly don't remember us challenging Chelsea or Arsenal as being the top club in London or the South.
We were a premiership team, representing in europe and with a squad full of internationals.
It was solid effort considering the position he bought us in.
imo, I don't think you can say he hasn't fulfilled his statement of
"whatever it takes to get promoted" until the end of the season.
If we get promoted, hasn't he done it?
:down_under:
If it were my money I'd be happy with this window - but then I wouldn't have let the parachute period pass us by so lightly.
"Whatever it takes" does not necessarily mean I will spend up to the limit we are allowed. Money is only part of the whole picture which Mr Khan was referring to.
The same few are still clutching at every last straw to have a go at our owner.
Get over it & just concentrate on the football & leave the rest of running the Club to those who know best. Be thankful we are not owned by Oyston or the Venky´s.
the fact is though it isnt a net gain but a net spend. Given he has spent big in the past its harsh to say he doesnt put his hand in his pocket, we are now restricted by FFP even if it is a rolling 3 year average, we wioll be retsricted to some degree.
He has also always said he wants us to be self sustainable.
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: grandad on September 01, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
I think Mr Khan & his team have done a terrific job this window. To acquire the number of excellent players he has for a minimal outlay is to be applauded. It is not written in stone that unless one spends to the limit one has not been successful in the market.
We have learned over the last 10 years that spending big does not guarantee one a top player or success.
Its not about the amount spent, its about the promises made. I agree we should applaud him had he come out and said " we will get a number of excellent players for a minimal outlay" but he didn't. His claim was that we will do "whatever it takes" to get promoted, he has not fulfilled that promise.
So no, I will not applaud a man for deceiving us to sell tickets.
People are keen to throw out the "spending big doesn't guarantee success" when that is completely beyond the point. The point is Khan promised to do something and that promise proved to be a lie.
Yes we now have a team capable of finishing around 10th, possibly at a push it could fight for the play offs.
Have we done "whatever it takes" to gain promotion? Not at all.
Umm - whatever it takes to gain promotion?
We're second in the league and have just bought one of the best strikers in the league statistically and improved our squad no end. If that gets us promotion then that is essentially whatever it takes. It's not the opposite. If we get in to the playoffs and then miss out, but strengthen and get promoted the year after, he still would've been proved right, even if not done within a year. He didn't set a timeframe like Al Fayed did and so doesn't have to stick to one. It shows sensible management (finally(, just a shame he had to get us relegated and take two seasons of F*****g everything up before it started to make sense.
He does though need to pay more attention to Jokanovic now. Jokanovic is a good thing for this club, he has reiterated his want to stay and be with us long term and has a sensible head on shoulders with seeming logic to get us going properly. That's not something we should tamper with, especially with the amount of poor managerial appointments we've had since Hodgson (arguable Mark Hughes too).
Quote from: grandad on September 01, 2016, 01:04:47 PM
"Whatever it takes" does not necessarily mean I will spend up to the limit we are allowed. Money is only part of the whole picture which Mr Khan was referring to.
The same few are still clutching at every last straw to have a go at our owner.
Get over it & just concentrate on the football & leave the rest of running the Club to those who know best. Be thankful we are not owned by Oyston or the Venky´s.
Agree gramps. Also at a time like this when we are doing well (Khan deserves as much credit for success as he gets stick for failure), let's be happy. Why complain when we are playing well? Well done everyone who got us going in the right direction
I feel clubs that spend more won't necessarily do better than us
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 08:45:24 AM
Transfer market has it as spent £20.19mil and received £19.18mil.
Meaning a loss of £1.01mil.
Meaning we've barely invested anything and still managed to improve the entire squad.
What this means is that we have plenty of scope to spend in January if we need to.
While it is disappointing to again see us not really push the boat out and spend big, I think its been sensible and the players we now have are capable of top 10.
I think that £20m only includes the Martin loan fee. If we take up the option then we will have spent a significant additional sum.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 01, 2016, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 08:45:24 AM
Transfer market has it as spent £20.19mil and received £19.18mil.
Meaning a loss of £1.01mil.
Meaning we've barely invested anything and still managed to improve the entire squad.
What this means is that we have plenty of scope to spend in January if we need to.
While it is disappointing to again see us not really push the boat out and spend big, I think its been sensible and the players we now have are capable of top 10.
I think that £20m only includes the Martin loan fee. If we take up the option then we will have spent a significant additional sum.
15 permanent outs
plus 5 loans..
So 20 (good maths I know) out... must be one of the largest exoduses we've had in a long while.. It'd be interesting to do the analysis on all our outgoings totalling in terms of money freed up, either by wages or fees.
Stearman, Ross, Stekelenberg, Mitroglu, Amorebieta must've all been higher earners... I can imagine their salaries totalled over a year, even if we were contributing small amounts could've made a difference too to our ability to spend. We may still be in net profit by a way. Undisclosed fees for Stekelenberg and Mitroglu and Amorebieta... I imagine they all went for a significant fee. Stek - £? - Mitroglu - £? and Amorebieta? Ross most have down as being £12 mill right?
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 10:06:55 AM
We clearly haven't spent much, if anything.
To the extent we were going to judge Khan on this window it must go down as another test he has failed.
But the team looks half decent, albeit not as good as it could have been, so probably best just to get behind them now and hope Jokanovic can work a miracle.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-fulham/transfers/verein/931/saison_id/2016 (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-fulham/transfers/verein/931/saison_id/2016)
The Transfermarkt figure of £20m spent seems to only include the Martin loan fee. If we convert the option in January then we will have spent approximately £1m + £7m = £8m over what we took in.
Will that be a big enough spend for you?
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"
The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.
You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less
"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.
Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him
The man will tell us whatever we want to hear to sell tickets, we are naive if we still believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
I really do think the squad has improved, that much is clear, however I am tired of Khan taking us for mugs in regards to his communication and messages to the fans.
If he'd come out at the start of the window and said "we will buy carefully and try not to overspend" then he would of been telling the truth. But he knew that telling the truth wouldn't sell the same amount of tickets as a wild promise with no substance.
"Whatever is takes" was an outright lie.
What we have done this summer is buy carefully and improve the squad with cheap but useful players that have no doubt progressed us. What we haven't done this summer is "whatever it takes" to get promotion, which is what was promised.
Result of the window for me:
- Happy with the squad.
- Disappointed in the owner for yet more lies.
Fortunately for normal human interaction few of us would take such an extreme interpretation of the phrase "Whatever it takes" and are certainly not as gullible as to invest in a season ticket purely on the basis of it.
Also, the season has only just begun and who can say what the outcome will be as others have pointed out. Maybe we have got what it takes.
The only net gain that matters to me relates to points .... 25 to 30 of them over last season, hopefully.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 01, 2016, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 10:06:55 AM
We clearly haven't spent much, if anything.
To the extent we were going to judge Khan on this window it must go down as another test he has failed.
But the team looks half decent, albeit not as good as it could have been, so probably best just to get behind them now and hope Jokanovic can work a miracle.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-fulham/transfers/verein/931/saison_id/2016 (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-fulham/transfers/verein/931/saison_id/2016)
The Transfermarkt figure of £20m spent seems to only include the Martin loan fee. If we convert the option in January then we will have spent approximately £1m + £7m = £8m over what we took in.
Will that be a big enough spend for you?
This. Crazy that people think the club hasn't spent just because they went for a loan with an option to buy (net 7 - 8 Million transaction which initially is only ~$1.5 - 2 Million). On top of that, if we bought Kalas and Piazon, we'd be WAY over, probably around a net spend of $15 million if all were purchased rather than loaned.
Shrewd business by the club.
Why do we need to spend big to do well? This summer, the Premier League clubs spent £1.165Billion on players.
Last season Leicester City won the league with a squad worth £45 million.
Absolutely ridiculous some of the claims that Khan has failed in this window.
If we'd spent 14 million on Kodija then would it be classed a success? Just because he spent a boat load of money?
There's absolutely no need to go wild on spending if it's not necessary. One of the biggest reasons our net spend is so low, is cause of the amount of money we got in. We spent 20 mln on players, and have much better quality than what we let out overall.
We've managed to improve the squad a lot, without a big red mark on our books. How is that not a successful transfer window..
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
The whatever it takes comment was made at the same time as the statement "it's not about balancing the books" which reinforces the view it meant spending generously
Agree with chutney's sentiment
Well then you are not being realistic, particularly for someone who keeps quoting figures.
Khan has also said we have to be sustainable and there are the FFP rules that we all know about plus a few other things like the expenditure on Motspur Park and keeping a balance between players in the wage bill.
If you look at MJG's analysis Khan is pushing the boundaries on what can be spent on the playing side.
We can all argue whether Khan has spent wisely or got value for money and probably agree that he has not and where it went wrong but he seems to be spending within a reasonable margin of what is allowed.
I really feel that we have made good progress. Khan came in with little knowledge and after the team had been bleed dry. It would seem that Mo got the best of that deal by far. Khan at first did what many here have begged for and "splashed the cash" for a certain Greek. Mistake. He then splashed the cash for a certain Scott. Better, but not enough supporting characters. This window the focus was changed and we revamped the entire squad. Perhaps Khan has learned. Perhaps he got out of the way. Doesn't matter. The team is markedly better. If we are still successful come January, then maybe that would be the time to buy that one player that can put us over the top. The club seems to be managed much better and there seems to be a plan in place. No more "splashing the cash" which to me smacks of desperation.
Whatever the outcome. Khan will get the blame and SJ will get any credit. That, I suppose is the nature of football.
Shocked that Khan is still taking a beating after this transfer window .
A complete overhaul of the squad with almost every position improved with starters and all positions now have cover .
And a 1st class manager in place .
I for one think he and yes Rigg have finally got it right and should be congratulated .
Are people really still moaning? We've had one of our most productive transfer windows where we have sold one star and created a fully stacked squad. Jokanovic has been clever in bringing in bargains from abroad instead of pleasing the many on here by paying big for championship standard players. Ayite - 2million instead of doing a Villa who paid 6 million plus Traore for a like for like in Adomah.
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Excellent post Mike.Perhaps a few on here will realize why we have not been able to spend the big millions they were screaming for.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Your own figures for this year show a £2.6m profit in 2016/17 before transfers, and according to the Transfermarkt figures you mention our net spend this year was £1.7m. And from that you have us "mighty close" to a £13m deficit?!
With maths like that who needs Grandad's posts for a laugh.
Anyway, we've been back and forth on this. If you really believe what you've written (which I doubt) ask the club at the next FST meeting. See what the answer is.
this where we differ.... I'm looking at the whole running of the club, and not just FFP.there are other costs apart from wages so that profit soon disappears Also if you add the Martin bought figure you get more of a loss.
Bigger picture, the books are basically balanced at this point. We weren't going to do much better this transfer window. I didn't think we'd actually bring in more than one player after the Ross sale, as we've been conditioned to believe that Khan and the board lie to the fans. SJ had to publicly plead to have the club sign players. I am delighted beyond belief.
In the 10-12 years I've been following Fulham, I see figures splashed about re-transfers in and out and salaries. What I DON'T see is any figures released from the club.
How anyone was say we spent this much and received this much is beyond me. But, there you go.
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 07:29:16 PM
I'm looking at the whole running of the club, and not just FFP.there are other costs apart from wages so that profit soon disappears Also if you add the Martin bought figure you get more of a loss.
Of course you should be considering everything it costs to run the club! It is utterly meaningless to take single kinds of income and of expenditure and plot them against each other. (Transfer fees versus parachute payments to take an example earlier in this thread). Only the whole caboodle --
all costs versus
all income -- matters in the real world as opposed to toytown.
Our net gain is we have a better team, a better squad and a motivated manager to get the best out of those players. I for one am not interested in how much £ was spent or not. And I'm an accountant. I'm just loving the feel good feeling that I'm getting from this season
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 07:29:16 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Your own figures for this year show a £2.6m profit in 2016/17 before transfers, and according to the Transfermarkt figures you mention our net spend this year was £1.7m. And from that you have us "mighty close" to a £13m deficit?!
With maths like that who needs Grandad's posts for a laugh.
Anyway, we've been back and forth on this. If you really believe what you've written (which I doubt) ask the club at the next FST meeting. See what the answer is.
this where we differ.... I'm looking at the whole running of the club, and not just FFP.there are other costs apart from wages so that profit soon disappears Also if you add the Martin bought figure you get more of a loss.
mike, have you just gone all Arsene Wenger and blamed the likes of club shop workers as to why we havent made more marquee signings :005:
We have bought in a lot of players and have performed well on the pitch without breaking the bank , things are looking good and yesterday's loan signing of a proven striker/target man could be the final link needed for a top six challenge.
Of course we will have to see how it all turns out but just now there is more hope than there has been for a long time and it seems that at last management are getting things right.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Your own figures for this year show a £2.6m profit in 2016/17 before transfers, and according to the Transfermarkt figures you mention our net spend this year was £1.7m. And from that you have us "mighty close" to a £13m deficit?!
With maths like that who needs Grandad's posts for a laugh.
Anyway, we've been back and forth on this. If you really believe what you've written (which I doubt) ask the club at the next FST meeting. See what the answer is.
It seems that I have to point out again that the Transfermarkt figure of the spend of £1.7m only seems to include the loan fee for Martin.
Therefore if, as expected, we take up the option that will add, according to reports, probably about £7m to the spend so about £8.7m overall.
Add to that we were supposedly after Cyriac then that would have taken us to pretty near your magical £13m you must suspect.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 07:29:16 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Your own figures for this year show a £2.6m profit in 2016/17 before transfers, and according to the Transfermarkt figures you mention our net spend this year was £1.7m. And from that you have us "mighty close" to a £13m deficit?!
With maths like that who needs Grandad's posts for a laugh.
Anyway, we've been back and forth on this. If you really believe what you've written (which I doubt) ask the club at the next FST meeting. See what the answer is.
this where we differ.... I'm looking at the whole running of the club, and not just FFP.there are other costs apart from wages so that profit soon disappears Also if you add the Martin bought figure you get more of a loss.
yes there are other costs but what are we talking about? mowing the lawn every week? whatever they are, i doubt they exceed the margin for error in our estimates anyway. as for "the martin bought figure", unless i've misunderstood the club statement we haven't bought him yet. my comments are based on present facts, not contingent future events. so if we buy martin for £9m in january i'll probably change my view, just as i would if we bought pogba for £100m. can't be bothered arguing about this anymore anyway. as i keep saying, ask the question at FST. i'd genuinely like to know, even if it means i'm wrong.
Presumably we negotiated the option to buy Martin because we expect to exercise that option therefore it makes sense to budget that in as a spend now.
To argue that Khan hasn't spent as promised or hasn't spent enough by ignoring the expected cost of the option seems to be a weak ploy to prolong your complaints about the club's spending particularly if you may change your mind if we take up the option.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 09:18:02 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 01, 2016, 09:10:31 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.
My guess at things is:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/nfh72r.png)
Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.
Your own figures for this year show a £2.6m profit in 2016/17 before transfers, and according to the Transfermarkt figures you mention our net spend this year was £1.7m. And from that you have us "mighty close" to a £13m deficit?!
With maths like that who needs Grandad's posts for a laugh.
Anyway, we've been back and forth on this. If you really believe what you've written (which I doubt) ask the club at the next FST meeting. See what the answer is.
It seems that I have to point out again that the Transfermarkt figure of the spend of £1.7m only seems to include the loan fee for Martin.
Therefore if, as expected, we take up the option that will add, according to reports, probably about £7m to the spend so about £8.7m overall.
Add to that we were supposedly after Cyriac then that would have taken us to pretty near your magical £13m you must suspect.
If we'd bought Martin and Cyriac I wouldn't be moaning would I
If if if
If my aunty had bo&&go££s she'd be my aunt
You seem to be stuck in this moaning groove and cannot see that things have moved on.
Well we have an option that we are likely to take up on Martin and, who knows, we may go back for Cyriac in January if his club stop messing us about.
The reasons that we haven't bought both at this point seems to have been down to their clubs so we will have had to have allocated that budget of the £13m you want us to spend.
Brilliant window well done to everyone involved in the club and in the financial constraints.
I think it's harsh to keep saying he's lied. Spending less on transfers and more on wages may be whatever it takes. We are not privy to the finances and to judge on net spend is as ridiculous as buying a player on statistics alone
Quote from: snarks on September 01, 2016, 10:22:41 PM
I think it's harsh to keep saying he's lied. Spending less on transfers and more on wages may be whatever it takes. We are not privy to the finances and to judge on net spend is as ridiculous as buying a player on statistics alone
Agreed. Some here seem to think that there is no spending unless the club buries itself in losses. Overall, I think the club (and that means Khan) have done well. I think we'll chase promotion this year and come January, we'll have the money to "splash the cash" like Statto wants and maybe buy that player to put us over the top. Maybe, just maybe , we won't need that player and can use that cash when we step up a division come spring.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
yes there are other costs but what are we talking about? mowing the lawn every week?
They are all the other aspects of running the club that showed up in the audited accounts as £14.1 million last time around. As visible in the figures quoted from MJG from the published accounts. Other clubs have similar costs, for which auditors require documentation.
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
whatever they are, i doubt they exceed the margin for error in our estimates anyway
They do, by miles. See above. If you would deign to read what you are pretending to respond to that would have advantages.
Just to be clear the 'other costs' is the difference after the loss/profit of amorisation is taken into account. Its after all transfer dealings as well in those years. I probably worded it wrong but what it does show is somewhere the club has spent that kind of figure. It has a wide range from 14-23 but when you look at the accounts it is clearly more than just mowing the lawn that needs doing.
My main point of posting those figures is to have a discussion on them, inform people mainly of the 'income' side and how that had dropped.
I'm more than happy to be corrected on anything I do on the finances. I'm not an accountant, just someone who takes an interest in the running of the club using those figures.
Quote from: MJG on September 02, 2016, 08:37:56 AM
Just to be clear the 'other costs' is the difference after the loss/profit of amorisation is taken into account. Its after all transfer dealings as well in those years. I probably worded it wrong but what it does show is somewhere the club has spent that kind of figure. It has a wide range from 14-23 but when you look at the accounts it is clearly more than just mowing the lawn that needs doing.
My main point of posting those figures is to have a discussion on them, inform people mainly of the 'income' side and how that had dropped.
I'm more than happy to be corrected on anything I do on the finances. I'm not an accountant, just someone who takes an interest in the running of the club using those figures.
Mike - it is a numbers game - all the weekly costs have to be mutiplied by 52 - that is the killer - so 5k extra to players in wages adds 260k to the annual cost. The incoming players look to be far better qulaity than the outgoing ones so it would tend to suggest that the are getting extra pay and I suspect that our wage bill has risen considerably.
I presume it was also the case that the loan fees for Mitro and others paid their wages - so loosing them has a neutral effect on our total wage bill because there would be no saving.
The problematical bit would be regarding Ross - he was undoubtable our highest earner - but was he earning 50k per week because that it the loan fee we are paying to Derby for Chris Martin's services. Do you think the loan fee of 2.5m includes his wages or do we pay his wages in addition to that?
Quote from: Roberty on September 02, 2016, 09:36:23 AM
Quote from: MJG on September 02, 2016, 08:37:56 AM
Just to be clear the 'other costs' is the difference after the loss/profit of amorisation is taken into account. Its after all transfer dealings as well in those years. I probably worded it wrong but what it does show is somewhere the club has spent that kind of figure. It has a wide range from 14-23 but when you look at the accounts it is clearly more than just mowing the lawn that needs doing.
My main point of posting those figures is to have a discussion on them, inform people mainly of the 'income' side and how that had dropped.
I'm more than happy to be corrected on anything I do on the finances. I'm not an accountant, just someone who takes an interest in the running of the club using those figures.
Mike - it is a numbers game - all the weekly costs have to be mutiplied by 52 - that is the killer - so 5k extra to players in wages adds 260k to the annual cost. The incoming players look to be far better qulaity than the outgoing ones so it would tend to suggest that the are getting extra pay and I suspect that our wage bill has risen considerably.
I presume it was also the case that the loan fees for Mitro and others paid their wages - so loosing them has a neutral effect on our total wage bill because there would be no saving.
The problematical bit would be regarding Ross - he was undoubtable our highest earner - but was he earning 50k per week because that it the loan fee we are paying to Derby for Chris Martin's services. Do you know if the loan fee of 2.5m includes his wages or do we pay his wages in addition to that?
I'd say we are paying his full wages.
the Ross deal was one I had advocated. Sell for £12M and invest it over 3 or 4 players and thats what we have done.
What it will have done is increased the wage bill. Say he was on £40K and the 3 we have bought are on £20K each, then of course it will have gone up. So when people say we have saved wages on XYZ, well yes we have, but in buying in 'better' players that wages gets shared around more and eaten up.
