Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
We've signed a centre back and a keeper, and have Richie as rb, and efforts have been made to sign Targett.
But I'm sure the club is trying to sign further reinforcements.
Midfield players can have defensive qualities and roles - last season even Mitro was effective defending corners, and pressing opposing defenders.
It isnt great... But like you said, there is still a lot of time to address this.
For the first time in a good few years I actually feel confident that we will address the areas of the team that need strengthening.
Also, I cant knock Odoi. I think he will be a good squad player and will keep surprising people. Also, he will forever be a legend after his Derby goal! 049:gif
Obviously we're confident of new defensive signings, however there won't be any time for them to develop any understandings.
For Palace, maybe we'll change system and go to 3 at the back, using S.Sess as RWB, with a back three of Christie Ream & MLM, and R.Sess as LWB. Maybe Betts will stay in goal for this game as well, to preserve the understanding he has with TR.
Defence and up front/wings are our weakest areas - saw a poll on Twitter asking fans that question and of 1000+ voters there was an even split between in need of defensive and attacking options.
Most people agree it seems we need two quality forwards, a winger (schurrle - maybe one other), another LB, RB and CB to be confident we can stay up or have some sort of strength.
That's 6 more players not including schurrle
Mawson
Mitrovic
Willian jose
Augustinsson
Plattenhardt
Mbabu
Schurrle
Calum chambers
Lopez
All being linked would suggest someone agrees in the ether at the very least or someone at the club agrees too.
Even if you focus on those we're linked heavily with relatively recently - Mbabu, schurrle, Jose and mitrovic it'd suggest we're likely to be on some par with that reasoning.
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
Although I agree we need to strengthen our defense I don't think George Graham built a great Arsenal team they were boring to watch and would not like to see his style anywhere near Fulham.
Quote from: Barrett487 on July 25, 2018, 11:22:30 AM
Obviously we're confident of new defensive signings, however there won't be any time for them to develop any understandings.
For Palace, maybe we'll change system and go to 3 at the back, using S.Sess as RWB, with a back three of Christie Ream & MLM, and R.Sess as LWB. Maybe Betts will stay in goal for this game as well, to preserve the understanding he has with TR.
I slightly disagree here, these are professional football players who fully understand all sorts of formations, so in my opinion it would not take long to gain an understanding of the way Slav plays, Targett, Mitro fitted in straight away, so why should not others.
We're signing lots of attacking players so the ball stays out of our half.
I wouldn't say as shocking, but it's definitely troublesome. Even Slav tried Cisse at LCB against Lyon, and we conceded 2 goals due to his lack of awareness in that position. We need an RCB and LB badly, although I think Max can play LB just fine, and even then he has played RCB for Nice before. However, I definitely want a CB alongside Ream.
Do we definitely need a new RB?
Our current depth options are:
1. Cyrus Christie
2. Denis Odoi
3. Steven Sessegnon
4. Marlon Fossey (I think)
If none of the above are good enough, I would think we will need to ship one of them out, because I can't see us having 5 right backs on the books (I appreciate we had 5 before Freddo left, but Christie was bought as his replacement).
Quote from: bencher on July 25, 2018, 02:37:42 PM
Do we definitely need a new RB?
Our current depth options are:
1. Cyrus Christie
2. Denis Odoi
3. Steven Sessegnon
4. Marlon Fossey (I think)
If none of the above are good enough, I would think we will need to ship one of them out, because I can't see us having 5 right backs on the books (I appreciate we had 5 before Freddo left, but Christie was bought as his replacement).
Fossey has been playing left back in pre season and him and Steven will go into the 23s. Meaning we only have Odoi and Christie. If we sign a decent CB I can see Odoi going to the right and Christie would be adequate cover
I'd argue we need 3 starting defenders on top of your fav pick of Le Machand, Ream, Odoi, and Christie.
They are all necessary to keep as squad players, but others are right on here in assuming we'll ship an average of 3 goals per match with our current back four.
They will get roasted to a burnt crisp.
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 03:19:35 PM
I'd argue we need 3 starting defenders on top of your fav pick of Le Machand, Ream, Odoi, and Christie.
They are all necessary to keep as squad players, but others are right on here in assuming we'll ship an average of 3 goals per match with our current back four.
They will get roasted to a burnt crisp.
You just never know they may turn out to be just fine
Would like another quality cb and obbiously a lb
We have to sign a left back and a right Centre Back if we want to keep a clean sheet this season.
Quote from: alfie on July 25, 2018, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 03:19:35 PM
I'd argue we need 3 starting defenders on top of your fav pick of Le Machand, Ream, Odoi, and Christie.
They are all necessary to keep as squad players, but others are right on here in assuming we'll ship an average of 3 goals per match with our current back four.
They will get roasted to a burnt crisp.
You just never know they may turn out to be just fine
And a lot may depend on the cover they get from the defence. I think McDonald can perform effectively in that role, ( ie the holding central midfield) at premiership level and that would help our defence perform well .. as they did particularly in the second half of the season. Target is, however, a big loss, and he made a difference in January, so we still need to cover his position. Personally I don't think Sess is defensively strong enough yet.
At the moment our back four against Place looks like:-
Christie La Marchand Ream Sess.
Will that be capable of keeping Palace in check. for 90 minutes.
Quote from: filham on July 25, 2018, 06:53:49 PM
At the moment our back four against Place looks like:-
Christie La Marchand Ream Sess.
Will that be capable of keeping Palace in check. for 90 minutes.
I doubt it, and I hope that will not be the complete first choice back 4 on that day, otherwise it could be a much more difficult season.
Christie Odoi Ream Le Marchand with Sess on the wing surely?
Also, have people seen enough of Le Marchand to disregard him as not being good enough to be our left back for the season? I haven't so can't comment whether he'll be good enough, but am interested to hear why people consider him as a squad player rather than a starter?
That back four as a unit is not strong enough, Odoi, who will probably be competing for the right back spot, although I think Christie has the edge. Odoi is suspended I am to understand for the Palace match.
We need a quality orthodox left back, and a quality right sided centre back.
It's going to be a long challenging season, we will need all hands on deck.
Due to suspensions, injuries and loss of form.
But we need a stronger back division than the ones stated. We are two quality defenders shy, and that's minimum.
Good point about Odoi's suspension - forgot that carried forward, also agree he's not a centre back good enough for the Prem and would provide good competition for Christie. Hopefully the Mawson rumours are true, meaning place at RCB will be filled soon.
My main point though was why people are immediately saying Le Marchand isn't a good enough Left Back on the forum - was wondering what evidence this was based on - is this because he's not good enough defensively, or as an attacking player, or is better suited in a different position (LCB)? Have people seen him at LB last season to categorically say he's not good enough? Not trying to prove people wrong, you may be right that he's not good enough. I just genuinely have never seen the player so can't comment at this stage.
Quote from: filham on July 25, 2018, 06:53:49 PM
At the moment our back four against Place looks like:-
Christie La Marchand Ream Sess.
Will that be capable of keeping Palace in check. for 90 minutes.
To be fair more likely to be Le Marchand at LB and Odoi CB.
I think if we get Mbabu and Lopez in our defence is already looking much better.
I assume we will bring in a left back at some stage as well.
Mawson and Smalling have both been made available by their clubs,
Those two added to our squad and my concerns suddenly ease,
Imagine those two with Mitrovic when we win a corner, for the first time in donkey's years we would have a genuine goal scoring threat,
Mawson and Smalling would bring that valuable Premier League experience with them to,
Would love to see it happen 👍🏻
Quote from: GJB on July 25, 2018, 07:44:06 PM
Good point about Odoi's suspension - forgot that carried forward, also agree he's not a centre back good enough for the Prem and would provide good competition for Christie. Hopefully the Mawson rumours are true, meaning place at RCB will be filled soon.
My main point though was why people are immediately saying Le Marchand isn't a good enough Left Back on the forum - was wondering what evidence this was based on - is this because he's not good enough defensively, or as an attacking player, or is better suited in a different position (LCB)? Have people seen him at LB last season to categorically say he's not good enough? Not trying to prove people wrong, you may be right that he's not good enough. I just genuinely have never seen the player so can't comment at this stage.
Agree with what you say. the issue for me is with regard to Le Marchand, is that square pegs in round holes will I imagine get found out in the Premier. He is generally a very decent centre back, and to be fair to him, playing left back will be a little detrimental for him.
Ok in an emergency, but that's all.
I could be wrong, but currently it should be Ream or Le Marchand plus one other top CB.
That's the way I see it, but no doubt the landscape will change over the course of the season, due to injuries etc.
We will need depth all round to stand our ground.
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 08:30:23 PM
Mawson and Smalling have both been made available by their clubs,
Those two added to our squad and my concerns suddenly ease,
Imagine those two with Mitrovic when we win a corner, for the first time in donkey's years we would have a genuine goal scoring threat,
Mawson and Smalling would bring that valuable Premier League experience with them to,
Would love to see it happen 👍🏻
That could be mouth watering.
Quote from: alfie on July 25, 2018, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 03:19:35 PM
I'd argue we need 3 starting defenders on top of your fav pick of Le Machand, Ream, Odoi, and Christie.
They are all necessary to keep as squad players, but others are right on here in assuming we'll ship an average of 3 goals per match with our current back four.
They will get roasted to a burnt crisp.
You just never know they may turn out to be just fine
I'd take medium well in a heartbeat.
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?
Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.
I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?
Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.
I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.
I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?
Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.
I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.
I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.
Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.
You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.
Quote from: General on July 25, 2018, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?
Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.
I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.
I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.
Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.
You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.
I was Reams biggest critic in his early seasons but he has given me nothing to complain about for quite some time now. I have quite a bit of faith in him but agree that his pace given his (relative) advancing age would be his Achilles heel.
I think the decision to replace Ream comes down to the bigger picture.
Currently with Shurrle, Seri, Fabri, and presumably a new RCB and LB we will have 5/11 starring players replaced with new faces. Arguably 6 if you consider Christie hasn't had that much game time with his teammates. If we then replace Ream as well... that's almost 80% of our first team overhauled. Will a lack of squad "gelling" have more of an effect than Reams pace?
It's a tough balance.. but I think with that in mind and given Reams player of the season performances, it would make more sense to review his position in January. However I can see arguments for and against!
Quote from: General on July 25, 2018, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?
Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.
I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.
I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.
Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.
You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.
How often do we put our defenders in one-on-one situations? I can look through all the 90min matches on ffctv and find about 5 times total that we do that. We build numbers in attack, to build numbers in defense. There's a reason why we're not a counter attacking team, because we don't get exposed from build up as often, and we also don't get exposed through our CDM > CB's unless we cough it up in our own third.
There's a reason our system is hailed as one of the better ones out there. Championship or not, there can't be any argument to how we go undefeated for over 20 matches. I have full faith in our system, and the players - especially Ream - that Slav picks out.
Mawson and ream would be happy with that at centre back pairing as ream deserves a chance.
Yes I would like to see an upgrade at cb, but all this criticism of a defence that went 23 undefeated is a bit ott imo.
The worry about the defence with players individually as well as a unit has been a talking point for quite a while.
The Depth and the correct Balance is even more important when you consider the quality of player that we will be facing in the Premier League.
It's a different challenge, and a more difficult one to keep a clean sheet.
Odoi cannot even be considered for the first match, and we only need someone to pick up a knock before the season commences, and we are somewhat in a pickle.
Of course ideally we would love to reward the players that got us back in the Premier.
But we have to use our loaf and be wise before the event.
It's too late once that window closes shut, and we are shipping goals like there is no tomorrow against the best sides in the England.
Idealy we need three more defenders, but I would settle for two providing one was a RCB and the other a LB.
Alfie Mawson and Matt Targett would more than suffice.
Quote from: General on July 25, 2018, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?
Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.
I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.
I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.
Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.
You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.
Well there are not too many defenders that can be put up against those players, those that can are already in the top clubs earning top money, and of course he just might continue with last seasons form.
Quote from: bobby01 on July 28, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
Yes I would like to see an upgrade at cb, but all this criticism of a defence that went 23 undefeated is a bit ott imo.
But half of that defence is gone... And Odoi is really a fullback. I would much rather see him at RB than CB.
Odoi is no Premier League Centre Back, and he will not even be considered v Palace. No more square pegs in round holes. Odoi may tie down the RB spot, but Christie might have something to say about that.
Then again the club may sign a new right back.
12 days left before the deadline.
Quote from: GJB on July 25, 2018, 07:05:55 PM
Christie Odoi Ream Le Marchand with Sess on the wing surely?
Also, have people seen enough of Le Marchand to disregard him as not being good enough to be our left back for the season? I haven't so can't comment whether he'll be good enough, but am interested to hear why people consider him as a squad player rather than a starter?Quote from: GJB on July 25, 2018, 07:05:55 PM
Christie Odoi Ream Le Marchand with Sess on the wing surely?
Also, have people seen enough of Le Marchand to disregard him as not being good enough to be our left back for the season? I haven't so can't comment whether he'll be good enough, but am interested to hear why people consider him as a squad player rather than a starter?
No can do, Odoi suspended.
Quote from: Riversider on July 28, 2018, 08:25:39 AM
Please God let those Alfie Mawson rumours be true, Mawson alongside Ream and all of a sudden things start to look a whole lot better,
If we sign him I hope we give him the captain's armband as well,
COYSW
As of 1/2 hr ago and according to ESPN we are now favorite to sign Mawson.
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 08:30:23 PM
Mawson and Smalling have both been made available by their clubs,
Those two added to our squad and my concerns suddenly ease,
Imagine those two with Mitrovic when we win a corner, for the first time in donkey's years we would have a genuine goal scoring threat,
Mawson and Smalling would bring that valuable Premier League experience with them to,
Would love to see it happen 👍🏻
I believe we get a sell on bonus if Man U sell Smalling. Wonder if that would come off of any fee?
Well then, this thread was started 11 days ago, and since then we've added one (very good) defender, who won't be available unfortunately until after the International break,
We have just 6 days to go until the first game of the season, how the bloody hell have we got ourselves in to such a mess ?
It's been said that we need to "upgrade " all over the pitch, so I have a question for you all,
Is Cyrus Christie an upgrade on Ryan Fredericks, yes or no ?
If you answered no, do you think we need a new right back, yes or no ?
If you've answered yes, that means we need a right back, a left back, and a right footed centre back brought in over the next 6 days , will it happen ?
Yes I think it will , BUT, will our defence be a cohesive unit against Crystal Palace ? Not a hope in hell.
Do I worry for us over the season, no not really, do I worry for us over the first 4 games , yes I do !
In Crystal Palace we must have one of the worst opponents that we could have faced, a team who's strength is it's attacking prowess and a team that isn't weighed down by any exertion at the World Cup,
A baptism of fire next Saturday I fear, but things will get better.
COYSW
We have been waiting a few years for a really strong centre back, he arrives about a week before our first premier match and we now realise he is recovering from a knee operation and will probably watch the match from the stands with Odoi our suspended centre back.
Fulhamish in action right at the beginning of our premiership comeback.
Palace and Spurs are going to have a field day against our weak back four.
We need to sign:
A LB better than Targett
A RB better than Christie.
Both are Championship full backs. Our style means full back is essential for getting the ball out of defence and starting moves.
Quote from: Milo on August 05, 2018, 01:05:11 PM
We need to sign:
A LB better than Targett
A RB better than Christie.
Both are Championship full backs. Our style means full back is essential for getting the ball out of defence and starting moves.
Agree with you. Tierney and Clyne would be ideal for me. Think Clyne isn't that unrealistic because he's third choice at Liverpool.
We will be signing a central defender, loan or otherwise. We will be signing a left back. We may or may not be signing a central midfielder. But a right back and a forward despite the need will I doubt be coming.
We looked dreadful at the back yesterday and to be frank Celta Vigo could have scored four or five if their finishing had been a bit better. Sadly I thought Kevin Mac looked all over the place, Ream was slow and showed little sign of forming an effective partnership with Le Marchant. Christie was OK, but not outstanding and as usual at LB Sess looked something of a fish out of water. Quite seriously worried at our ability to stay in the Premier unless some more strong recruitment is undertaken. Those wanting us to start the season with last year's line-up couldn't be more wrong judging by yesterday's showing..
Quote from: Tonywa on August 05, 2018, 03:07:43 PM
We looked dreadful at the back yesterday and to be frank Celta Vigo could have scored four or five if their finishing had been a bit better. Sadly I thought Kevin Mac looked all over the place, Ream was slow and showed little sign of forming an effective partnership with Le Marchant. Christie was OK, but not outstanding and as usual at LB Sess looked something of a fish out of water. Quite seriously worried at our ability to stay in the Premier unless some more strong recruitment is undertaken. Those wanting us to start the season with last year's line-up couldn't be more wrong judging by yesterday's showing..
not watching friendly will take your opinion if it proves to be the case then slav,TK have a lot to do this week.I am watching the first 5 games as I want to see us adjust to life back with the big boys!
Quote from: Tonywa on August 05, 2018, 03:07:43 PM
We looked dreadful at the back yesterday and to be frank Celta Vigo could have scored four or five if their finishing had been a bit better. Sadly I thought Kevin Mac looked all over the place, Ream was slow and showed little sign of forming an effective partnership with Le Marchant. Christie was OK, but not outstanding and as usual at LB Sess looked something of a fish out of water. Quite seriously worried at our ability to stay in the Premier unless some more strong recruitment is undertaken. Those wanting us to start the season with last year's line-up couldn't be more wrong judging by yesterday's showing..
Well our line up from last season has all but gone. Both full backs gone and Odoi suspended. Only we could replace him with a centre half who is unavailable for at least a month or so.
Surprised it appears yesterday's friendly was the wake up call for how bad we could be at the back. It wasn't a strength in the championship and we are Targett, kalas and Fredericks lighter.
Whats more shocking is I went out for a stroll earlier and on my return went to the freezer to find my wife had eaten the last of the ice cream.😬
I love the idea of offensive players coming in,it's in true Fulham style,coaches like George Graham and Alex fuergerson would always build from the back,so here we are 1 defensive left side CB with a week left and no RF CB,no left FB needed like first in !going to be an interesting week.coyw.
Quote from: RoyTund on August 05, 2018, 03:58:37 PM
Surprised it appears yesterday's friendly was the wake up call for how bad we could be at the back. It wasn't a strength in the championship and we are Targett, kalas and Fredericks lighter.
To be fair Roy this thread started long before yesterday, the warning signs have been there a while.
Quote from: Riversider on August 05, 2018, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: RoyTund on August 05, 2018, 03:58:37 PM
Surprised it appears yesterday's friendly was the wake up call for how bad we could be at the back. It wasn't a strength in the championship and we are Targett, kalas and Fredericks lighter.
To be fair Roy this thread started long before yesterday, the warning signs have been there a while.
Yes I don't think yesterday was a shock to any fan. The point is that if we were in a division lower starting with the present back four we would be wetting ourselves. We may have hoped that our new players would somehow have shown enough quality to make us feel reassured. But they didn't and so the pressure on our back four will be considerable. But time yet to rectify the situation. But only just.
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
This thread was started in July by a mere humble Fulham supporter, I could see danger ahead, I could see the warning signs, , shame more people at the club getting paid millions weren't slightly more proactive,
That back 4 witnessed today is 100% relegation material, if Mitrovic was to suffer an injury that kept him out for 5 or 6 games I don't think we would pick up a single point in that time,
You would hope that work has already started on the January transfer window and pray that we are still in touch by the time it comes around,
How you can spend over a £100 million in one window and yet look so bad defensively is beyond me.
You almost sound pleased, just so you can say you were right.
Cannot disagree too much with what you have said on this thread. But isn't that what coaches/ managers and trainers are for. To coach defences into a unit, and condition players, and use training drills to get the players into shape with a system of play.
So having said that, on that basis, it's not all doom and gloom.
Because I reckon the club has the material, ie the players, it's a question as how long will it take to drill these defenders and the rest of the team, to make themselves difficult to score against.
We were too square today at times, and very rarely did players look across the line.
Sometimes we defended too deep, other times we pushed up too far.
So I would like to think that our coaches have identified what needs to be improved, and work on it through the week in training, and every week until we get it right, that's what coaches and trainers are for.
So by now everyone at the club should know what needs to be improved and worked on, for the sake of the clubs survival in this Division.
Because I do think writing off players this early is a little premature as there is potential, but plenty of room for improvement, including conditioning and match fitness.
Bryan, Le Merchand, Mensah, Mawson, Chambers. Five defenders grabbed in some desperation during the summer, are any of them better than players that were here last season.
I think I would feel safer with:-
Fredericks , Odoi, Ream, Targett
Quote from: filham on September 22, 2018, 10:00:14 PM
Bryan, Le Merchand, Mensah, Mawson, Chambers. Five defenders grabbed in some desperation during the summer, are any of them better than players that were here last season.
I think I would feel safer with:-
Fredericks , Odoi, Ream, Targett
Fredericks would get caught forward way too much in this league, like West Ham have already found out, hence he doesn't play.
Odoi. He was excellent today but it's not like he hasn't made mistakes so far this season.
Ream, Yes, I think he'll be great but we're yet to see.
Targett faded towards the end of last season.
I think it's way too early to judge the defence this early on, especially considering it's a whole new setup against much better teams than last year.
Quote from: filham on September 22, 2018, 10:00:14 PM
Bryan, Le Merchand, Mensah, Mawson, Chambers. Five defenders grabbed in some desperation during the summer, are any of them better than players that were here last season.
I think I would feel safer with:-
Fredericks , Odoi, Ream, Targett
:plus one:
Quote from: Milo on September 22, 2018, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: filham on September 22, 2018, 10:00:14 PM
Bryan, Le Merchand, Mensah, Mawson, Chambers. Five defenders grabbed in some desperation during the summer, are any of them better than players that were here last season.
I think I would feel safer with:-
Fredericks , Odoi, Ream, Targett
:plus one:
Agreed.
Unfortunately, despite all that money spent, we don't appear to have improved.
Mawson & chambers both very poor today.
Quote from: Fulham76 on September 23, 2018, 12:23:47 AM
Quote from: Milo on September 22, 2018, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: filham on September 22, 2018, 10:00:14 PM
Bryan, Le Merchand, Mensah, Mawson, Chambers. Five defenders grabbed in some desperation during the summer, are any of them better than players that were here last season.
I think I would feel safer with:-
Fredericks , Odoi, Ream, Targett
:plus one:
Agreed.
Unfortunately, despite all that money spent, we don't appear to have improved.
Mawson & chambers both very poor today.
soon as reams up to speed can see odoi and ream reunited in the centre and it can't happen soon enough for me Chambers and Mawson to fragile.
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
This thread was started in July !
Take a minute to read the opinions and views of mere humble supporters,
Its astounding and beyond belief that none of those concerns were taken heed of by the likes of Tony Khan and Brian Talbot,
Is it any wonder that we're going down 😢
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
You were 100% right riversider
Quote from: Riversider on December 19, 2018, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
This thread was started in July !
Take a minute to read the opinions and views of mere humble supporters,
Its astounding and beyond belief that none of those concerns were taken heed of by the likes of Tony Khan and Brian Talbot,
Is it any wonder that we're going down 😢
Considering it was " the greatest transfer window in our illustrious history" we did cover some of these listed but as of yet its not worked out.
Its not just the players but the coaches
I may be adding 2 and 2 to make 5 but Stuart Gray's departure I think is also a factor . Parker certainly was not a replacement
And I hate to say it but I think that was Slav's decision
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on December 19, 2018, 11:11:08 AM
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
You were 100% right riversider
+1
Indeed he was, but it is his shopping list that really sets up the arguments he won in his posting.
'Better than' are the two words that someone should have mixed down to 'who is better than' and not settled for the 'who is as good as (maybe)' or 'who is the equivalent of' that fits some of what we recruited. I didn't get excited about anyone coming in apart from Mitro who had already been tried and tested. I also objected to the way recruitments were announced on the offal which was, IMHO, inviting longer term ridicule.
You were dead right Riversider and I don't know why JoelH5 had to take a pop at you back in September.
To be fair I was ignorant of the quality of some of our overseas signings so didn't quite know what to expect but I recall that Statto and I were united in our criticism of the last minute timing of so many summer signings. We argued it left no time for preparation, team building, etc. Again, we were told by some that we didn't have a clue.
Well it has all come crashing down and I for one am gutted that after working so hard to get back into the Prem we find the club sliding ignominiously straight back down again.
Mawson is an Upgrade and we tried hard to get Targett, we los Fred in January. Ream, Odoi..backups nothing more. Chambers could still do a job at centre half now he has settled. I have not given up on Bryan and Mensah should go back. Max done ok but nothing special. We would have been much smarter to have spent the Anguissa money on another centre half, then again a defensive midfield player is still required if Chambers goes to central defence. In every club many many transfers don't work out. I have to say however we don't seem to have done very well, especially with such a big outlay. Took too many risks on untested potential and still too many loans.
Quote from: Riversider on December 19, 2018, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
This thread was started in July !
Take a minute to read the opinions and views of mere humble supporters,
Its astounding and beyond belief that none of those concerns were taken heed of by the likes of Tony Khan and Brian Talbot,
Is it any wonder that we're going down 😢
This was started in July, but it's only now that some of you are finally starting to wake up and smell the coffee,
As I've said before (and got slated for my views) if we are not really, really careful now we are heading for League 1 as Sunderland did and as others before have done,
The job ahead in January is far too big to be completed in one window, we MUST sign two top notch full backs, one maybe two center backs, an entire new midfield and an entire front line (Sess and Mitrovic won't be with us next season )
Surgery is always painful to go through but you will recover in time and hopefully feel better for it,
Time to have a heart to heart with Cairney as well and try and find out whether he wants to be here or not, another disgraceful performance from him today and the sooner he is replaced the better.
Painful reading for some of you, but you know what they say about the truth.
24 Days in to The January Transfer window and still every single problem that needed addressing in July is still relevant today, and that is truly shocking,
We are going down, but looking at some of the rubbish hovering above the bottom 3 and you realise that it wouldn't have taken too much to survive just a small amount of competence at a senior level,
As I've warned before we have got all the hallmarks of another Sunderland, the squad is poor and unbalanced and any half decent player will be leaving in the summer, leaving a massive rebuild , something that Tony Khan and Brian Talbot are seemingly incapable of doing,
How have we been allowed to get in to such a mess and how do we get out of it ?
Season 2019/2020 already concerns me greatly, anybody else ?
I think there is a general consensus that we needed help at the back and simply didn't get it. Too late now. Our season has been a disaster built on disaster. No real point in trying to rectify or reanimate a team that simply needs too much done to it. Mistakes from owners and coaches and players have all brought us to a point to where many fans feel that we can happily right off our season. A shame but it is what it is. Whatever improvement we have shown will not be enough.
Best to regurgitate this thread in the Summer because it's just is too late now.
we all know we are poor at the back. the keeper was a statue on the line against spurs and I have said for ages he is poor at crosses into the box and I think even his fans have woken up to this weakness.
Ream's error for the first was disgraceful for a player of his ability and bryan's error for the second totally unforgiveable as he simple did not track winks. this was not TC out side the box, it was a LB failing to mark the man he was supposed to be markin in the box itself. uf he woulkd have just stayed with winks we would have got a draw.
But on top of that, ranieri's philosphy is all wrong. he said he thought when we went forward we should have gone to the corner and run the clock down for a draw.... that is crazy, the game was thre for the winning, we do not have the players to play keep ball like that or the defence to retain a lead... we just had to try and win the game. Ranieri bringing on cisse for seri sealed the defeat. his whole outlook is 100% in error, he playsn a style he is comfortable with rather than a style that best suits our players. He has unsettled the squad, AK has been with us for ages and his outburst and all that went with it a function of his very poor handling of the players. We have the wrong manager, I see that with the clarity of knowing branfoot, campbell and jol were all wrong.
We may know in the next 6 matches if we are further in the soup or not, subject to any recruitment that may occur by the end of the month.
But on top of the fact that we only have 14 points out of a possible 69 points so far.
I am not convinced we have enough of the right kind of players for a relegation battle, let alone a defence that can defend a lead, any lead.
Then of course there is that small matter of scoring goals, not forgetting that if i told someone from another planet we have in excess of a Hundred Million Pound team, they may advise me to have a check up from the neck up.
Before Spurs, everyone was saying we'd lose.
We lost.
Yet, we're upset. Why? The predictions came true?
We could have drawn. People are mad that Ranieri wanted us to go into the corner.
We didn't.
We lost.
So...what are we wanting here exactly? We want to be 100% right, or do we want points?
I want points. I didn't know Ranieri wanted them to go into the corner. Yes, the match was there for the taking, but after the match, we all would've loved for a point against Spurs.
Our crappy defence, almost allowed Spurs only 1 goal. If we bring that into the next match, at that same level of play, why wouldn't we be able to beat Brighton and come away with points? If we lose to them, where it seems we're predicting points for us, then that's where my cause for concern would be.
I seem to remember Khan getting a ton of stick over not spending, which was never true. Now he has spent big and got little for it. So now he is just stupid. He's even more stupid because he can't see our obvious problems and should spend to alleviate these problems. See a pattern here?
Spending for players is always a risk. Note a certain Greek. Also note that the big boys spend far more than FFC historically does yet, still come up with a lot of turkeys. That is why they have so many players on contract. They spend and then filter out those not good enough and loan them out to help cover the cost. How many players go on loan to Chelsea or ManU?
The Prem is a lot like government. It is self sustaining for the top. The rest of us just shed a lot of tears for years on end in the hope that we'll have a night in Hamburg. And that, is somehow enough. Says a lot about us, doesn't it?
Stand up if you still believe! COYW!
Quote from: Matt10 on January 24, 2019, 05:45:50 PM
Before Spurs, everyone was saying we'd lose.
We lost.
Yet, we're upset. Why? The predictions came true?
We could have drawn. People are mad that Ranieri wanted us to go into the corner.
We didn't.
We lost.
So...what are we wanting here exactly? We want to be 100% right, or do we want points?
I want points. I didn't know Ranieri wanted them to go into the corner. Yes, the match was there for the taking, but after the match, we all would've loved for a point against Spurs.
Our crappy defence, almost allowed Spurs only 1 goal. If we bring that into the next match, at that same level of play, why wouldn't we be able to beat Brighton and come away with points? If we lose to them, where it seems we're predicting points for us, then that's where my cause for concern would be.
Ranieri's thinking is wrong. We had a chance on the day against spurs b team. Ranieri lost the game with incorrect substitutions, that is why i am upset, on the day he recued defeat from the jaws of victory.
And for the third game in a row, having been ahead we ended up losing 2 1... i think tht is good reasoon to be upset
Nose, maybe you should get some perspective. Bar Mitrovic none of our players would have started for Spurs' "B"team (well, maybe Seri). So it was not as if we were expected to win. Easier than normally yes, but Spurs were still huge favorites.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 24, 2019, 05:27:20 PM
We may know in the next 6 matches if we are further in the soup or not, subject to any recruitment that may occur by the end of the month.
But on top of the fact that we only have 14 points out of a possible 69 points so far.
I am not convinced we have enough of the right kind of players for a relegation battle, let alone a defence that can defend a lead, any lead.
Then of course there is that small matter of scoring goals, not forgetting that if i told someone from another planet we have in excess of a Hundred Million Pound team, they may advise me to have a check up from the neck up.
The Best Defensive Players we can hope for is "lower premier league" defenders or "top championship" defenders, but they will still take two to six months to be a great unit, which means buy now and they will be ready to win "The Championship" next season.
Quote from: Sting of the North on January 24, 2019, 07:28:34 PM
Nose, maybe you should get some perspective. Bar Mitrovic none of our players would have started for Spurs' "B"team (well, maybe Seri). So it was not as if we were expected to win. Easier than normally yes, but Spurs were still huge favorites.
based on the what actually happened on the day it was unfortunate we didn't get a second when we were well on top BUT in the second half ranieri simply got the team to sit deeper and deeper and then he made some spectacularly foolish substitutions and still tried to sit deep which in the end invited them onto us. each change made us worse and freed up their players to come forward... that in the end was the predictable outcome of the manager's failings, that is all the perspective I need.
It was as obvious as alf, in 1970, taking off bobby charlton and trying to protect him for the next game (which never came) and protecting the lead with a more defensive player..allowing beckenbaur freedom of the park and it killed us then, just as the same errors of judgment killed us last sunday. even as a child i knew alf was wrong, and on sunday i knew ranieri was committing football suicide...
Quote from: nose on January 25, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on January 24, 2019, 07:28:34 PM
Nose, maybe you should get some perspective. Bar Mitrovic none of our players would have started for Spurs' "B"team (well, maybe Seri). So it was not as if we were expected to win. Easier than normally yes, but Spurs were still huge favorites.
based on the what actually happened on the day it was unfortunate we didn't get a second when we were well on top BUT in the second half ranieri simply got the team to sit deeper and deeper and then he made some spectacularly foolish substitutions and still tried to sit deep which in the end invited them onto us. each change made us worse and freed up their players to come forward... that in the end was the predictable outcome of the manager's failings, that is all the perspective I need.
It was as obvious as alf, in 1970, taking off bobby charlton and trying to protect him for the next game (which never came) and protecting the lead with a more defensive player..allowing beckenbaur freedom of the park and it killed us then, just as the same errors of judgment killed us last sunday. even as a child i knew alf was wrong, and on sunday i knew ranieri was committing football suicide...
Fair enough then, and I agree with this, just thought that you meant that we in general should have beaten that Tottenham team. But on the day based on how the game went I agree, especially with the part on the first half where we should have scored one more.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 25, 2019, 06:34:14 AM
The Best Defensive Players we can hope for is "lower premier league" defenders or "top championship" defenders, but they will still take two to six months to be a great unit, which means buy now and they will be ready to win "The Championship" next season.
That is a cue for a very useful piece of statistical data which is probably absent from current trends and that is how rapidly a player adapts to a new employer via reliable performance stats, say an index of 100, where 100 indicates settling into the new squad immediately and zero which presumably should mean 'never'.....
Quote from: Sting of the North on January 25, 2019, 12:42:41 PM
Quote from: nose on January 25, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on January 24, 2019, 07:28:34 PM
Nose, maybe you should get some perspective. Bar Mitrovic none of our players would have started for Spurs' "B"team (well, maybe Seri). So it was not as if we were expected to win. Easier than normally yes, but Spurs were still huge favorites.
based on the what actually happened on the day it was unfortunate we didn't get a second when we were well on top BUT in the second half ranieri simply got the team to sit deeper and deeper and then he made some spectacularly foolish substitutions and still tried to sit deep which in the end invited them onto us. each change made us worse and freed up their players to come forward... that in the end was the predictable outcome of the manager's failings, that is all the perspective I need.
It was as obvious as alf, in 1970, taking off bobby charlton and trying to protect him for the next game (which never came) and protecting the lead with a more defensive player..allowing beckenbaur freedom of the park and it killed us then, just as the same errors of judgment killed us last sunday. even as a child i knew alf was wrong, and on sunday i knew ranieri was committing football suicide...
Fair enough then, and I agree with this, just thought that you meant that we in general should have beaten that Tottenham team. But on the day based on how the game went I agree, especially with the part on the first half where we should have scored one more.
I also agree that before the game I was not expecting quite such an encouraging first 30 minutes and spurs looked like they were on their knees, very disorganized and would have rather been home in the warm. but we let them off the hook..... seen it all before and honestly at about 35 minutes I started to get a very uncomfortable feeling it would go wrong
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
Almost one year ago I started this topic, and one year on the headline still applies today, and in my opinion that's truly shocking,
Less than 3 weeks from the start of the season and Christie and Odoi are still making up 50% of our back 4, why ?
This is the third transfer window that has been open since the original post was made, and I simply asked for a right back better than Ryan Fredericks, a centre back that's better than Denis Odoi and a left back better than Matt Targett, absolutely incredible that none of those boxes have been ticked yet,
For us to even think about Top 2 this season we must make some defensive additions, why has everybody at our club got such a blind spot to where our problems lie ?
Less than 3 weeks to go we need defenders, we need pace/energy in midfield and we need another striker, sort it out Tony.
I cannot believe that Denis Odoi was our first choice at centre back last night. :doh:
092.gif
Quote from: bog on July 17, 2019, 12:17:32 PM
I cannot believe that Denis Odoi was our first choice at centre back last night. :doh:
092.gif
He's our only choice!
Nobody else capable of playing on the right side, mawson, le marchand and ream are all only capable of playing on the left side of the pairing.
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
The year we went up we had a back 4 of Targett, Ream, Odoi, Fredericks and it was still dodgy at times. Since then we have downgraded our full backs and replaced Ream with Mawson. We went up a division and improved one single player in our back 4...
Quote from: Chutney on July 17, 2019, 12:21:28 PM
Quote from: bog on July 17, 2019, 12:17:32 PM
I cannot believe that Denis Odoi was our first choice at centre back last night. :doh:
092.gif
He's our only choice!
Nobody else capable of playing on the right side, mawson, le marchand and ream are all only capable of playing on the left side of the pairing.
Perhaps it is me Chutney. Since last October our obvious fault is in defence, in January we were told 'we' are going to sign 'loads of players' and here we are 10 months on from that October and still we have not signed anyone other than the 'versatile Nordvelt'. What do I know? :022:
Just a thought from yesterday's game, if sp is going to play ak and cavielaero that wide, do we need to have full backs that bomb forward. Maybe they can play more defensively, in which case we would not need 2 defensive midfielders and change one of them for a more creative one.
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 09:02:05 AM
Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Plenty of people getting excited about our front line but for me it counts for nothing unless we tighten up at the back,
Our back line will make us or break us this season, we don't want to be in a position whereby we have to score 2 or 3 goals just to get a point !
If you own a bungalow there is no point in buying an expensive security door if you are then going to go out for the day and leave all your windows open.
Our defence at the moment is weaker than the one we had last season and by some distance the weakest in the Premier League,
We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett,
We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks
And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi,
We would then still need cover at left back and at centre back,
So yes get excited about the front line, but remember it's largely irrelevant until the defence gets strengthened,
So two weeks left and lots still to be done, the way we've gone about our business up front and in midfield I'm confident that the signings will come and confident that they will to the standard that we've seen so far,
George Graham built a great Arsenal team around his back 4, I hope we can do the same,
""One nil to the Super Whites, One nil to the Super Whites"
Almost one year ago I started this topic, and one year on the headline still applies today, and in my opinion that's truly shocking,
Less than 3 weeks from the start of the season and Christie and Odoi are still making up 50% of our back 4, why ?
This is the third transfer window that has been open since the original post was made, and I simply asked for a right back better than Ryan Fredericks, a centre back that's better than Denis Odoi and a left back better than Matt Targett, absolutely incredible that none of those boxes have been ticked yet,
For us to even think about Top 2 this season we must make some defensive additions, why has everybody at our club got such a blind spot to where our problems lie ?
Less than 3 weeks to go we need defenders, we need pace/energy in midfield and we need another striker, sort it out Tony.
You are so right. at the start of last seasona nd again now I have said similar things to you. Our defence is still way to weak and what isaw of mawsonm V porto I was not impressed, beaten in the penalty area to headers way to often and not looking all that. I know it was a friendly but he is not the man he was for his previous team and still have a grave doubt about his long term fitness. As for the rest of them I am very uneasy, Christie is a nightmare and I have to say despite his supportive reviews here, his positional sense when defending is nowhere near good enough.
We went up because slav was a genius, I do think SP is the right man for the job but I do not believe he is a genius in that way and I am expecting a poor season largely because the squad in general is not up to standard.
Quote from: bobby01 on July 17, 2019, 12:37:43 PM
Just a thought from yesterday's game, if sp is going to play ak and cavielaero that wide, do we need to have full backs that bomb forward. Maybe they can play more defensively, in which case we would not need 2 defensive midfielders and change one of them for a more creative one.
We didn't play with two defensive midfielders yesterday.
To be fair, I think SP is fully aware of what we need. He's looking at options such Reece Oxford, a CB from Everton and a loanee from Chelsea, but looking and getting deals over the is another problem.
under Slav our defence was always a bit like a tea bag, the difference was we usually scored one or more than we conceded
Quote from: Mike the White on July 17, 2019, 02:26:55 PM
To be fair, I think SP is fully aware of what we need. He's looking at options such Reece Oxford, a CB from Everton and a loanee from Chelsea, but looking and getting deals over the is another problem.
under Slav our defence was always a bit like a tea bag, the difference was we usually scored one or more than we conceded
And we played sensational football to get those goals.
092.gif
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
Remember Stearman and Sigurrdssen both had reasonable reputations when we bought them but failed with us. Is Mawson going the same way as those two.
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
Agree with you Riversider 100%. Defence needs to be upgraded ASAP.
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
I will agree that the defensive line isn't the best. However, having the worst defences is not reflection of just the back 4.
A lot of our goals conceded were hardly from being broken down versus self-inflicted and Ranieri + Slav's nature of not pressing high up the pitch. Instead, we sat back and absorbed pressure. Us. The worst defence in the league, and our managers chose to absorb pressure versus create it. Ranieri chose to bring our two CDMs in Seri and Chambers to float side to side as a tandem, while Slavisa stuck and twist with strategies, none of which were a high pressure at any point.
When Parker was appointed there was a different look to our defensive pressuring. It was throughout the entire pitch at bursts from Mitro to whoever the CAM or CDM was. Last night, we defended against Porto in a 4-4-2 though, but was broken down with Porto's advanced central midfielders and attackers, thus forcing our 2 (Johansen) to drop back further and become outnumbered. Once McDonald and Johansen were breached, it forced our defenders into immediate and lop-sided action in 4v3 situations.
If Parker can use that experience as a building block for certain scenarios, I think even the back 4 we have right now can adjust accordingly. I would prefer someone other than Odoi at RCB personally, but I won't knock good efforts. Just, as a coach, I have some hesitations in his decision making overall - that's for another thread :) .
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
I think this thread alone is proof that there is debate to be had. Literally.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on July 25, 2018, 04:42:40 PM
We have to sign a left back and a right Centre Back if we want to keep a clean sheet this season.
I too am very concerned about strengthening the backline defense. If upgrades are not engaged, I fear FFC could be nothing more than mid table, to lower table quality. And yes, the offense needs a bit of help too, need some speedy wingers, players who can serve into the box. Mitro only good as a strong presence in the box. His slow pace reduces FFC chances at transition breakouts. need some speed on the sides, and need, most importantly in my view, to get really strong on the backline. Still time to do so, but time goes by fast, and before you know it, the season will be starting. Get to it, FFC!
Quote from: Matt10 on July 17, 2019, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
I will agree that the defensive line isn't the best. However, having the worst defences is not reflection of just the back 4.
A lot of our goals conceded were hardly from being broken down versus self-inflicted and Ranieri + Slav's nature of not pressing high up the pitch. Instead, we sat back and absorbed pressure. Us. The worst defence in the league, and our managers chose to absorb pressure versus create it. Ranieri chose to bring our two CDMs in Seri and Chambers to float side to side as a tandem, while Slavisa stuck and twist with strategies, none of which were a high pressure at any point.
When Parker was appointed there was a different look to our defensive pressuring. It was throughout the entire pitch at bursts from Mitro to whoever the CAM or CDM was. Last night, we defended against Porto in a 4-4-2 though, but was broken down with Porto's advanced central midfielders and attackers, thus forcing our 2 (Johansen) to drop back further and become outnumbered. Once McDonald and Johansen were breached, it forced our defenders into immediate and lop-sided action in 4v3 situations.
If Parker can use that experience as a building block for certain scenarios, I think even the back 4 we have right now can adjust accordingly. I would prefer someone other than Odoi at RCB personally, but I won't knock good efforts. Just, as a coach, I have some hesitations in his decision making overall - that's for another thread :) .
Agree with a lot of what you say regarding the midfield, and despite what some on here will have you believe, we can not under any circumstance play Cairney and McDonald together in midfield, both are embarrassingly slow, you can get away with playing one but you can't play both together, we've been linked with Mo Besic and Harry Arter and I sincerely hope there's some truth in those rumours.
There are many things that contribute to a good defence. Discipline and organisation of individual players is crucial no matter what their reputations and price tags are, especially under pressure. But a former head coach of ours showed the way to build teams, not from the best money can buy, but from meaningful training and coaching routines that instill the virtues of holding onto the ball, being brave in possession, and learning how to pass the ball to take an opponent or two out of the game completely if only for several seconds.
I certainly agree that there seems to be evidence that FFC have missed a few chances at signing better known defenders and we will never truly know why. It seems something of a parody when we hear or read stories of 'stars' looking around MP and that being the last we hear of them, and we are left to wonder why they turned us down. But we really need to wise up to the virtues of developing those who want to play for us because without that development we certainly would not have achieved promotion under the Khans. Last season is a marker we can all lay down because it bothers us that our recruitment makes so many errors and last season was literally plagued with them. I think we have to get used to living with that situation until it is changed for whatever reason it happens. We can win things with a good coach. Until SJ had his first complete season he was no big deal; I am hoping SP can emulate him.
What happens in the transfer window is what happens but after the window shuts it is all about SP and his band of players. I am not expecting any good surprises from recruitment because history tells me that they don't come along too often from the current team and if it takes Denis Odoi to head the winning goal to reach Wembley next year then I'll be saying 'thank goodness they didn't sell the guy'.
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
No I'm not happy with our defence. I didn't say I was. FWIW I think we desparately need a better right-sided CB than Odoi, and I also think Christie, whilst decent at Championship level, is a downgrade on Fredericks.
However, the post I was replying to didn't say "are you happy with our back 4?" It said (1) "We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett", (2) "We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks" and (3) "And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi". I was replying to that post to say, essentially, that I strongly disagree with (1) and (2) and I believe we satisfied (3) by signing Mawson.
If I may offer some advice, if you've a particular thought in mind, you should try to write that in your post clearly and accurately. If you write something fundamentally different, most people, with the exception of Derren Brown, Mystic Meg and Uri Geller, are likely to reply to the point you've written, rather than the point in your mind.
It's only you that seemingly has had a problem understanding the point, I don't think I could have made it any clearer, in a nutshell for you, our defence isn't good enough and better players need to be brought in, capiche ?
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 11:15:58 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: Riversider on July 17, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 17, 2019, 09:14:30 AM
So you don't think either or both of Mawson and MLM are better centre backs than Odoi?
Also I suspect most would argue the need for better full-backs than Targett and Fredericks, if indeed there ever was such a need (given both those players are now playing for other PL clubs, I'd be inclined to say that even last season, they'd have been good enough for us) has been cancelled out by relegation.
Jeez, so you are happy with our back 4, wow, in case you weren't aware we had one of the worst defences in England last season, there is literally no debate to be had over whether it needs to be improved or not , it does, and we've got less than 3 weeks to do it, the back 4 that played last night is no where near good enough to get us promoted.
No I'm not happy with our defence. I didn't say I was. FWIW I think we desparately need a better right-sided CB than Odoi, and I also think Christie, whilst decent at Championship level, is a downgrade on Fredericks.
However, the post I was replying to didn't say "are you happy with our back 4?" It said (1) "We need a left back that is better than Matt Targett", (2) "We need a right back that is better than Ryan Fredericks" and (3) "And a centre back that is better than Dennis Odoi". I was replying to that post to say, essentially, that I strongly disagree with (1) and (2) and I believe we satisfied (3) by signing Mawson.
If I may offer some advice, if you've a particular thought in mind, you should try to write that in your post clearly and accurately. If you write something fundamentally different, most people, with the exception of Derren Brown, Mystic Meg and Uri Geller, are likely to reply to the point you've written, rather than the point in your mind.
It's only you that seemingly has had a problem understanding the point, I don't think I could have made it any clearer, in a nutshell for you, our defence isn't good enough and better players need to be brought in, capiche ?
Under FFP it doesn't matter what we need, it only matters what we can afford. Gone are the days you can go to the owner to spend more money, the budget is fixed and the only debate is how do we spend that money and can we sell players to buy other players.
Our defense of Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Ream, MLM and Bryan is a better backline than all championship except five teams Huddersfield, Cardiff, Stoke, Middlesbrough and Bristol. Importantly all those teams didn't score near enough goals and only two of those teams "scored more than a goal per game" last season.
Last season, we averaged 1.58 against the bottom six premier league teams. If we can repeat that performance against the top eight teams, and we average 2 points per game against the middle 12 teams and we get six points against the lowest three teams, then we have 91 points.
I see Leeds, WBA, Brentford and maybe Cardiff as good at beating the bottom of the division, they are the teams most likely to succeed. The best attacks get promoted simple, get 90 points is about getting 27 wins a season mostly against the below average teams.
I have noticed that the bookies give the same odds for Mitro winning the golden boot and Fulham winning the league. I would wonder what are chances of getting promoted are if Mitrovoic isn't one of the top goalscorers next season, my guess is virtually zero. Excessive reliance of Miteovoic to score is our number one weakness.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 18, 2019, 01:18:03 AM
I have noticed that the bookies give the same odds for Mitro winning the golden boot and Fulham winning the league. I would wonder what are chances of getting promoted are if Mitrovoic isn't one of the top goalscorers next season, my guess is virtually zero. Excessive reliance of Miteovoic to score is our number one weakness.
The pressure will be on Mitro if we continue to ship goals at the other end, having to score just to get a point isn't good enough, we must start producing clean sheets, and at the moment we have a defence that is a long way from being able to do that,
We've only got 3 pre season games left to form a settled defence before the season starts, And that's not enough time sadly.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 18, 2019, 01:18:03 AM
I have noticed that the bookies give the same odds for Mitro winning the golden boot and Fulham winning the league. I would wonder what are chances of getting promoted are if Mitrovoic isn't one of the top goalscorers next season, my guess is virtually zero. Excessive reliance of Miteovoic to score is our number one weakness.
I thought you believed our number one weakness was that we didn't have enough players making assists?
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 18, 2019, 10:50:07 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 18, 2019, 01:18:03 AM
I have noticed that the bookies give the same odds for Mitro winning the golden boot and Fulham winning the league. I would wonder what are chances of getting promoted are if Mitrovoic isn't one of the top goalscorers next season, my guess is virtually zero. Excessive reliance of Miteovoic to score is our number one weakness.
I thought you believed our number one weakness was that we didn't have enough players making assists?
I guess i did say both which is not rationale, i meant the number one weakness of the first XI is assists and number one weakness of the squad is Mitro backup, but i love good backup and it's something are DoF can give us. A small squad requires a smart DoF and deep squad requires a DoF good at getting money to pay them all, our DoF strengths very firmly lean to the later.
I'm worried about attacking backup, but everyone else here seems to be worried about our defense and can we keep a clean sheet, if i remember correctly Odoi, MLM, Ream and Bryan went nearly 360 minutes without conceeding a goal in the premier league (without our best defender Mawson). Personally, even without Mawson I think we can get 15 clean sheets next season (like 17/18), but can we score in 41 games (the 17/18 tally) without Mitro i'm doubt it.
This so called crap defense in its last seven games against top tier clubs has had three clean sheets, conceded one goal three times and had one shocker bringing Mawson back too early for injury. Defensively, that's six out of seven games we have conceeded one goal or less (excellent) against stronger teams than most of the championship. Attacking wise in these seven games we have not scored on four occasions, scored one goal twice and two goals once.
In the last seven games we have scored four goals, had three clean sheets and conceeded seven goals, plus we have lost more attacking players than defensive players since last season.
In my ignorance may I ask where Cisse is in all of this?
He is still listed as a member of the First Team Squad but he never seem to get a look in at all. Is it that he does not suit our style or is just not liked by the management?
I have never seen enough of him to judge his play but from when he has played he seems to be no better or worse than the choices we have at present.
If he is surplus to requirements get him off the pay roll.
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on July 18, 2019, 11:26:20 AM
In my ignorance may I ask where Cisse is in all of this?
He is still listed as a member of the First Team Squad but he never seem to get a look in at all. Is it that he does not suit our style or is just not liked by the management?
I have never seen enough of him to judge his play but from when he has played he seems to be no better or worse than the choices we have at present.
If he is surplus to requirements get him off the pay roll.
The reports are Cisse played well against Nigeria in the Africa Cup. I think he could suit our style but McDonald and Chambers have kept him out of the team. Cisse could take McDonalds place this season season if KMac doesn't deliver and Cisse is a very good sub for Cairney when we are ahead wanting to lock down a result. We need squad players especially with an aging midfield and marathon season.
Much reference has been made to last year but the real reference point should be our last season in the Championship. I think we have sufficient quality for this division. Tend to think that we may be over-reliant on Mitro up-front.
How can you can this defensive unit be shocking when it went 360 minutes in the premier league without conceeding a goal, plus in the last seven games against top tier teams it has only conceeded more than one goal once in seven games? In the same seven games with three clean sheets, Fulham has only scored four goals in the seven games. Since Parker, defense is more of a strength than a weakness, plus Mawson will rejoin the team in the backline, where as Seri and R.Sess seem set to leave the attack.
Parker's Record (including 10 premier league games plus Burnley and Porto friendly) 12 Games 8 Goals Scored (4 Babel, 1 Chambers, 1 Atiye, 1 Cairney and 1 Penalty) 20 Goals Conceeded. Converting that to a 38 Game Seasons that is 25 goals scored (2nd worst last season) and 63 goal conceded (6th worst last season). Once again attack not defense has been Fulham weakness under Parker, although that was a massive turn around.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 18, 2019, 01:30:27 PM
How can you can this defensive unit be shocking when it went 360 minutes in the premier league without conceeding a goal, plus in the last seven games against top tier teams it has only conceeded more than one goal once in seven games? In the same seven games with three clean sheets, Fulham has only scored four goals in the seven games. Since Parker, defense is more of a strength than a weakness, plus Mawson will rejoin the team in the backline, where as Seri and R.Sess seem set to leave the attack.
Parker's Record (including 10 premier league games plus Burnley and Porto friendly)
12 Games 8 Goals Scored (4 Babel, 1 Chambers, 1 Atiye, 1 Cairney and 1 Penalty) 20 Goals Conceeded
Converting that to a 38 Game Seasons that is 25 goals scored (2nd worst last season) and 63 goal conceded (6th worst last season).
As per usual, it does your arguments no favours when you just cherry pick the statistics that suits your arguments. I do agree that our defenders when given a chance in a more stable system is fairly capable. However, you cannot only look at a small sample size from last season. If so, my counterargument is to look at the last game against a low scoring lower half opponent in Newcastle. They scored 4 goals on us. That is of course also a nonsensical argument.
The argument should most likely instead be that if the team gets a proper chance to gel and regain some confidence, they may be fairly capable. Further, if you would like to draw comparisons then our last season in the Championship is probably a better measurement on our chances to defend properly. Despite what some may believe, we had the 7th best defence (in terms of goals against) only 1 more goal conceded than the fourth best defensive team. Last year that number would have put us as the third best team defensively in the Championship. If SP gets the team to play as a unit, I will not be worried about the quality of our players.
So, I agree that our defenders are most likely good enough for this level, but disagree with how you arrive at that conclusion.
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 18, 2019, 02:00:01 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 18, 2019, 01:30:27 PM
How can you can this defensive unit be shocking when it went 360 minutes in the premier league without conceeding a goal, plus in the last seven games against top tier teams it has only conceeded more than one goal once in seven games? In the same seven games with three clean sheets, Fulham has only scored four goals in the seven games. Since Parker, defense is more of a strength than a weakness, plus Mawson will rejoin the team in the backline, where as Seri and R.Sess seem set to leave the attack.
Parker's Record (including 10 premier league games plus Burnley and Porto friendly)
12 Games 8 Goals Scored (4 Babel, 1 Chambers, 1 Atiye, 1 Cairney and 1 Penalty) 20 Goals Conceeded
Converting that to a 38 Game Seasons that is 25 goals scored (2nd worst last season) and 63 goal conceded (6th worst last season).
As per usual, it does your arguments no favours when you just cherry pick the statistics that suits your arguments. I do agree that our defenders when given a chance in a more stable system is fairly capable. However, you cannot only look at a small sample size from last season. If so, my counterargument is to look at the last game against a low scoring lower half opponent in Newcastle. They scored 4 goals on us. That is of course also a nonsensical argument.
The argument should most likely instead be that if the team gets a proper chance to gel and regain some confidence, they may be fairly capable. Further, if you would like to draw comparisons then our last season in the Championship is probably a better measurement on our chances to defend properly. Despite what some may believe, we had the 7th best defence (in terms of goals against) only 1 more goal conceded than the fourth best defensive team. Last year that number would have put us as the third best team defensively in the Championship. If SP gets the team to play as a unit, I will not be worried about the quality of our players.
So, I agree that our defenders are most likely good enough for this level, but disagree with how you arrive at that conclusion.
We could upgrade many positions and improve. our defense and midfield are the most settled part of the team. We don't need to fix what is weak, we need to work out the best way to upgrade, improve goal difference and win 27 games next season.
The attack losing Babel, R.Sess and others, a series of great upgrades on the wings will make us a handful, which also stops full-backs flying at Christie. In addition, as great a player as Mitrovoic is, what he isn't is a 90 minuties for 46 games a season plus internationals kind of player. If we can build the best front line in the league this transfer window including backups, i'm sure the backline will hold out keeping goal conceeded to under 57 like Norwich. Alternatively, if we upgrade the backline, we will have to be aiming to keep goal conceeded to Sheffield Uniteds level, which is hard for a new centre back pairing.
