Just seen this on Twitter, so not sure whether it is guff (quite possible) or reality...
As much as I love Sess I'd take that. Invested correctly we could use it to storm the Championship.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on June 27, 2019, 01:37:17 PM
As much as I love Sess I'd take that. Invested correctly we could use it to storm the Championship.
:plus one:
Dagenham n Redbridge....Where did they get that sort of money from😵
Let's hope it's correct as it should kick off our transfer activities 049:gif
If it's true bite their hand off for that money
Take the money and let us move on to new players who will help us in the coming years.
Who posted the story? I can't find anything concrete.
@JosephDagent - apparently a former agent and someone with "inside knowledge" at Spurs.
And I mis-read it, £30m, not £35m.
That will do
Quote from: Burt on June 27, 2019, 03:25:11 PM
@JosephDagent - apparently a former agent and someone with "inside knowledge" at Spurs.
And I mis-read it, £30m, not £35m.
For £30m they can take a run and jump then 😂😂
We're believing a tweet from Joe Da Agent? :022:
I think we can do better
Also its Tottenham. 5 mill up front. 20 mill if he wins the senior World Cup in the next 2 years and 5 mill if Spurs win the prem
Quote from: wiresandmore on June 27, 2019, 04:35:46 PM
We're believing a tweet from Joe Da Agent? :022:
I think we can do better
I don't believe anything on Twitter. This came from a different sort of source though, am just passing on what is out there...
Until proven otherwise I really think TK agreed to let Ryan go (which is why he isn't included in the new kit media) if someone came in with a good offer, but if no one came in with an offer that was beneficial to both parties... ie... a team that Ryan would want to go to, for an agreed upon weekly fee...for a transfer fee that would allow Fulham to bring in a good replacement for him...
So far this hasn't happened.
I'm thinking that it's not going to happen...
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 27, 2019, 06:33:06 PM
Until proven otherwise I really think TK agreed to let Ryan go (which is why he isn't included in the new kit media) if someone came in with a good offer, but if no one came in with an offer that was beneficial to both parties... ie... a team that Ryan would want to go to, for an agreed upon weekly fee...for a transfer fee that would allow Fulham to bring in a good replacement for him...
So far this hasn't happened.
I'm thinking that it's not going to happen...
Exactly. Spurs will make a poor offer full of add ons as Levy thinks he can screw us. Sounds like TK isn't having it.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on June 27, 2019, 01:37:17 PM
As much as I love Sess I'd take that. Invested correctly we could use it to storm the Championship.
You forgot the if.
Quote from: JoelH5 on June 27, 2019, 06:35:07 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 27, 2019, 06:33:06 PM
Until proven otherwise I really think TK agreed to let Ryan go (which is why he isn't included in the new kit media) if someone came in with a good offer, but if no one came in with an offer that was beneficial to both parties... ie... a team that Ryan would want to go to, for an agreed upon weekly fee...for a transfer fee that would allow Fulham to bring in a good replacement for him...
So far this hasn't happened.
I'm thinking that it's not going to happen...
Exactly. Spurs will make a poor offer full of add ons as Levy thinks he can screw us. Sounds like TK isn't having it.
No Sours will go all in not want to lose Poch to Newcastle
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Quote from: SG on June 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Not sure about that. Wan Bissaka was fantastic for Palace last season and showed he can perform at PL level. Sess unfortunately not so much
Jack Clarke of Leeds United is a quality player, destined to play at the highest level, would put him in the same bracket as David Brooks of Bournemouth, anyway , he has had a medical at Spurs today ahead of his £8.5 million deal,
With that in mind, if Clarke is only worth £8.5 then no way on Earth is Ryan Sessegnon worth £35 million, in fact no where near,
Great business again by Levy and Spurs.
Quote from: Jamie88 on June 27, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: SG on June 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Not sure about that. Wan Bissaka was fantastic for Palace last season and showed he can perform at PL level. Sess unfortunately not so much
Agreed.
Wan Bissaka just won player of the year at a mid-table PL side and has 3 yrs left on his contract.
Sessegnon struggled to even get in the starting XI of a woeful, relegated side and has 12 months left on his contract.
Hence Sessegnon will never, ever go for £35m. Closer to £3.5m.
Quote from: Statto on June 27, 2019, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: Jamie88 on June 27, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: SG on June 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Not sure about that. Wan Bissaka was fantastic for Palace last season and showed he can perform at PL level. Sess unfortunately not so much
Agreed.
Wan Bissaka just won player of the year at a mid-table PL side and has 3 yrs left on his contract.
Sessegnon struggled to even get in the starting XI of a woeful, relegated side and has 12 months left on his contract.
Hence Sessegnon will never, ever go for £35m. Closer to £3.5m.
I Hope that they don't sell him if it is for below 20m (as you suggest is more reasonable). Surely he is more worth playing for FFC if we are serious about promotion.
Also, comparisons such as the above is far too simplified. Any buyers would not only be interested based on last years performances. And the performance of the team as a whole is rather a mitigating factor, if anything.
Also, and maybe most importantly, Wan Bisaka is 3 years older. Sess is extremely merited and experienced for his age. The only thing against a huge price is of course the contract.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Any buyers would not only be interested based on last years performances.
Really? I don't see a good season in the Championship as significantly more impressive than a poor season in the PL, given the different standards of each league. I also think you're overestimating the time horizons over which football clubs assess transfer targets. Our very own record signing, Anguissa, was valued based almost purely on his performance in the preceding season alone. Players often obtain a high valuation on even shorter periods, perhaps half a season. An example would be Scott Hogan a couple of years ago, when at Brentford.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
And the performance of the team as a whole is rather a mitigating factor, if anything.
Again, really? He wouldn't have got into Palace's team. But he got into ours (albeit only just) because we were significantly worse.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Also, and maybe most importantly, Wan Bisaka is 3 years older. Sess is extremely merited and experienced for his age.
Not sure it makes much difference. Both have exactly the same potential upside, - the potential to be world class. Whether that takes 3 years or 6 years from now seems rather immaterial to me. Of course, in both cases there's a chance they'll never reach that level, but Wan Bissaka is significantly closer already, and therefore he represents a signing with significantly less potential downside.
I'm also intrigued as to why all the points above are phrased as if they're facts, or at least, views you hold with a high degree of certainty. To me they all seem like pure conjecture.
Quote from: Statto on June 27, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Any buyers would not only be interested based on last years performances.
Really? I don't see a good season in the Championship as significantly more impressive than a poor season in the PL, given the different standards of each league. I also think you're overestimating the time horizons over which football clubs assess transfer targets. Our very own record signing, Anguissa, was valued based almost purely on his performance in the preceding season alone. Players often obtain a high valuation on even shorter periods, perhaps half a season. An example would be Scott Hogan a couple of years ago, when at Brentford.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
And the performance of the team as a whole is rather a mitigating factor, if anything.
Again, really? He wouldn't have got into Palace's team. But he got into ours because we were significantly worse.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Also, and maybe most importantly, Wan Bisaka is 3 years older. Sess is extremely merited and experienced for his age. The only thing against a huge price is of course the contract.
Not sure it makes much difference. Both have exactly the same potential upside, - the potential to be world class. Whether than takes 3 years or 6 years from now seems rather immaterial to me. Of course, in both cases there's a chance they'll never reach that level, but Wan Bissaka is significantly closer already, and therefore he represents a signing with significantly less potential downside.
I'm also intrigued as to why all the points above our phrased as if they're facts, or at least, views you hold with a high degree of certainty. To me they all seem like pure conjecture, devoid of factual basis or reasoning.
Arguably 19 to 21 are 3 of the biggest years in the average football players development. By 21 you can more than often tell if they will be a top, top player or not. I think it makes a huge difference.
Also dont forget, Bissaka has had one good season. If he'd had two or more, he'd be a lot safer bet
Quote from: Riversider on June 27, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Jack Clarke of Leeds United is a quality player, destined to play at the highest level, would put him in the same bracket as David Brooks of Bournemouth, anyway , he has had a medical at Spurs today ahead of his £8.5 million deal,
With that in mind, if Clarke is only worth £8.5 then no way on Earth is Ryan Sessegnon worth £35 million, in fact no where near,
Great business again by Levy and Spurs.
Remind me what Jack Clarke has actually done? Sess was doing more at 16 than he did at 18 - an 18 year old having a half decent season is about right for £8.5m - Sess was consistently very good for two seasons at the same level, so based purely on footballing ability he's worth at least treble that seeing as Clarke is a winger who scored twice in 22 games for Leeds. The only thing that bumps down Sess being worth £35m is the fact his contract is due to expire within a year, otherwise we're well within our rights to ask for that much.
Jack Clarke has 4 starts in the Championship. Leeds fans I've seen talking about the transfer aren't exactly broken up about it.
Quote from: Jamie88 on June 27, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: SG on June 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Not sure about that. Wan Bissaka was fantastic for Palace last season and showed he can perform at PL level. Sess unfortunately not so much
42 PL games 3 assists and 0 goals, even for an attacking fullback...doesn't scream 50m does it.
There is a fair bit of nonsense posted on this thread. Yes - Wan Bissaka is probably a better player than Sessegnon, but he is 3 years older. His transfer fee is high as he has 3 years left on his contract, whereas Ryan has only 1 year left. This obviously significantly affects any fee the club will be offered. If he had 3 years on his contract then his value probably would be £30-40m. As a result - the club will probably get only £20-25m for him. I've never heard of Jack Clarke - but a quick check on Transfermarkt shows that he has only played 90mins twice in his career (once in the league, once in the FA Cup), so it is pretty obvious why his transfer fee is 'only' £8.5m!
Quote from: Lordedmundo on June 28, 2019, 09:18:35 AM
There is a fair bit of nonsense posted on this thread. Yes - Wan Bissaka is probably a better player than Sessegnon, but he is 3 years older. His transfer fee is high as he has 3 years left on his contract, whereas Ryan has only 1 year left. This obviously significantly affects any fee the club will be offered. If he had 3 years on his contract then his value probably would be £30-40m. As a result - the club will probably get only £20-25m for him. I've never heard of Jack Clarke - but a quick check on Transfermarkt shows that he has only played 90mins twice in his career (once in the league, once in the FA Cup), so it is pretty obvious why his transfer fee is 'only' £8.5m!
The difference between them is quite stark. Wan Bissaka is already one of the top 10 RBs playing in the UK. Is Sessegnon even in the top 50 left wingers? Debatable.
If Sessegnon gets to Wan Bissaka's level by the time he's that age, ie one of top 10 LWs in the country, that would be a decent realisation of his potential. There's a very strong chance (in fact statistically, you could probably say it's more likely than not) that he'll fall short of that level.
Nonetheless I agree with other posters that the biggest value impacting Sessegnon's value is his contract length. But to say the difference in value between having 3 yrs remaining on his contract and 1 yr remaining is £30-40m versus £20-25m seems very ambitious to me. I still can't see us getting more than £10-15m up front.
Quote from: mlangstrom on June 28, 2019, 08:33:38 AM
Quote from: Jamie88 on June 27, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: SG on June 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Not sure about that. Wan Bissaka was fantastic for Palace last season and showed he can perform at PL level. Sess unfortunately not so much
42 PL games 3 assists and 0 goals, even for an attacking fullback...doesn't scream 50m does it.
That's not the point I was making. I never said I think Wan Bissaka is worth anywhere near 50m. I was referring to the other post that suggested that because Wan Bissaka is worth x amount, Sess should be near that amount.
Quote from: Statto on June 27, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Any buyers would not only be interested based on last years performances.
Really? I don't see a good season in the Championship as significantly more impressive than a poor season in the PL, given the different standards of each league. I also think you're overestimating the time horizons over which football clubs assess transfer targets. Our very own record signing, Anguissa, was valued based almost purely on his performance in the preceding season alone. Players often obtain a high valuation on even shorter periods, perhaps half a season. An example would be Scott Hogan a couple of years ago, when at Brentford.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
And the performance of the team as a whole is rather a mitigating factor, if anything.
Again, really? He wouldn't have got into Palace's team. But he got into ours because we were significantly worse.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 27, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Also, and maybe most importantly, Wan Bisaka is 3 years older. Sess is extremely merited and experienced for his age.
Not sure it makes much difference. Both have exactly the same potential upside, - the potential to be world class. Whether that takes 3 years or 6 years from now seems rather immaterial to me. Of course, in both cases there's a chance they'll never reach that level, but Wan Bissaka is significantly closer already, and therefore he represents a signing with significantly less potential downside.
I'm also intrigued as to why all the points above are phrased as if they're facts, or at least, views you hold with a high degree of certainty. To me they all seem like pure conjecture, devoid of factual basis.
First of, it was not my meaning to try to present the statements as facts, and I can see that it might have come of as such. I usually try to be clear on that point, but wasn't (mostly I believe since I wrote it on my phone, which is tedious to say the least). I disagree though that all my points are devoid of factual basis. The last point stating that Sess is extremely merited and experienced for his age does have a factual basis if you look at the number of senior games and awards etc. compared to almost all other players ever of his age.
Secondly, that a team may only assess his last season (as we did with Anguissa according to you, not sure if that is a fact) is no more reasonable than that they may assess several seasons. If I ask you this: Would he, in your opinion, be likely to demand a higher or lower fee this year if he had only played senior football last season (i.e. disregarding the two Championship seasons)? In my opinion, the two previous seasons will have a positive impact on the price, whether it be marginal or not.
Thirdly, how do you know that Sess would not have gotten into Palace's team? That is surely not a fact. And in any case, just as you can say that he didn't impress even in a badly performing team, one could also argue that it could be difficult for just about anyone to perform in such a dysfunctional team. Not many players in our team performed well in most games. That doesn't mean that none of them could have claimed a starting place in, for example, the Palace team.I don't find it strange at all to see that as a mitigating factor. So the short answer is, yes really.
Also, of course age makes a difference, although I agree that both are young and have potentially huge upside. But everything else alike, of course it is better to be three years younger. In my opinion.
I respect that we don't have to agree, and I see your points although I don't necessarily agree with them. I stand by my opinion that below 20 million should be a complete no go, since he is worth more to us as a player and as a statement of intent.
Quote from: Deeping_white on June 28, 2019, 12:24:59 AM
Quote from: Riversider on June 27, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Jack Clarke of Leeds United is a quality player, destined to play at the highest level, would put him in the same bracket as David Brooks of Bournemouth, anyway , he has had a medical at Spurs today ahead of his £8.5 million deal,
With that in mind, if Clarke is only worth £8.5 then no way on Earth is Ryan Sessegnon worth £35 million, in fact no where near,
Great business again by Levy and Spurs.
Remind me what Jack Clarke has actually done? Sess was doing more at 16 than he did at 18 - an 18 year old having a half decent season is about right for £8.5m - Sess was consistently very good for two seasons at the same level, so based purely on footballing ability he's worth at least treble that seeing as Clarke is a winger who scored twice in 22 games for Leeds. The only thing that bumps down Sess being worth £35m is the fact his contract is due to expire within a year, otherwise we're well within our rights to ask for that much.
Clarke has the opportunity to one day prove whether or not he can make it in The Premier League, if he can his value will soar as Brookes and Maddison before him found out,
The problem Sessegnon and Fulham Football Club have is that he has been given that opportunity and what shall we say, "he was found wanting" or "he failed miserably " or "he flopped" you choose, but whatever you come with this is the reason his valuation has fallen so dramatically,
Season 19/20 is a huge season for Ryan, whether it's with Spurs, Fulham or anybody else, he MUST have a stellar season with no more excuses.
Quote from: Riversider on June 28, 2019, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: Deeping_white on June 28, 2019, 12:24:59 AM
Quote from: Riversider on June 27, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Jack Clarke of Leeds United is a quality player, destined to play at the highest level, would put him in the same bracket as David Brooks of Bournemouth, anyway , he has had a medical at Spurs today ahead of his £8.5 million deal,
With that in mind, if Clarke is only worth £8.5 then no way on Earth is Ryan Sessegnon worth £35 million, in fact no where near,
Great business again by Levy and Spurs.
Remind me what Jack Clarke has actually done? Sess was doing more at 16 than he did at 18 - an 18 year old having a half decent season is about right for £8.5m - Sess was consistently very good for two seasons at the same level, so based purely on footballing ability he's worth at least treble that seeing as Clarke is a winger who scored twice in 22 games for Leeds. The only thing that bumps down Sess being worth £35m is the fact his contract is due to expire within a year, otherwise we're well within our rights to ask for that much.
Clarke has the opportunity to one day prove whether or not he can make it in The Premier League, if he can his value will soar as Brookes and Maddison before him found out,
The problem Sessegnon and Fulham Football Club have is that he has been given that opportunity and what shall we say, "he was found wanting" or "he failed miserably " or "he flopped" you choose, but whatever you come with this is the reason his valuation has fallen so dramatically,
Season 19/20 is a huge season for Ryan, whether it's with Spurs, Fulham or anybody else, he MUST have a stellar season with no more excuses.
Enh... he'll have to prove it one day, but some players take their time developing into world class players, at which level they may stay for only a short while. Nobody even knows what position Ryan should generally stick to.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 28, 2019, 10:12:28 AM
First of, it was not my meaning to try to present the statements as facts, and I can see that it might have come of as such. I usually try to be clear on that point, but wasn't (mostly I believe since I wrote it on my phone, which is tedious to say the least). I disagree though that all my points are devoid of factual basis. The last point stating that Sess is extremely merited and experienced for his age does have a factual basis if you look at the number of senior games and awards etc. compared to almost all other players ever of his age.
Secondly, that a team may only assess his last season (as we did with Anguissa according to you, not sure if that is a fact) is no more reasonable than that they may assess several seasons. If I ask you this: Would he, in your opinion, be likely to demand a higher or lower fee this year if he had only played senior football last season (i.e. disregarding the two Championship seasons)? In my opinion, the two previous seasons will have a positive impact on the price, whether it be marginal or not.
Thirdly, how do you know that Sess would not have gotten into Palace's team? That is surely not a fact. And in any case, just as you can say that he didn't impress even in a badly performing team, one could also argue that it could be difficult for just about anyone to perform in such a dysfunctional team. Not many players in our team performed well in most games. That doesn't mean that none of them could have claimed a starting place in, for example, the Palace team.I don't find it strange at all to see that as a mitigating factor. So the short answer is, yes really.
Also, of course age makes a difference, although I agree that both are young and have potentially huge upside. But everything else alike, of course it is better to be three years younger. In my opinion.
I respect that we don't have to agree, and I see your points although I don't necessarily agree with them. I stand by my opinion that below 20 million should be a complete no go, since he is worth more to us as a player and as a statement of intent.
I agree Sessegnon is "extremely merited and experienced for his age" but in a debate comparing Sessegnon to Wan Bissaka, I don't see the relevance of comparing Sessegnon to "all other players ever of his age". I'm not disputing that either player is very good in comparison to other players their age.
On the second point, as I said, personally I don't see a good season in the Championship as much better than a poor season in the PL. You seem to concede that they difference may only be marginal, and if the impact is only marginal then I'm not sure whether/why you'd continue to treat this point as supporting your case.
Your original statement was "Any buyers would not only be interested based on last years performances." Perhaps we can agree it should have been, "*Some* buyers *may* not only be interested based on last years performances *albeit, in any case, one good season in the Championship may only be treated as marginally better than a poor season in the PL*."
Sessegnon would probably not have got into Palace's team because their players, such as Schlupp, are better. Of course there's a slim chance he could have raised his game in a better team, just as AK47 could become a world class player if thrown into Man City's team, but I think most people will accept that comparisons of players' respective abilities should be based on their current, actual performance rather than the 1% chance that absolutely any player has of becoming a much better player in a much better team.
I agree that "everything else alike, of course it is better to be three years younger." But everything else is not alike. Wan Bissaka is a better player.
I agree that "below 20 million should be a complete no go, since he is worth more to us as a player". My point is just that no one will bid £20m for him (up front).
Quote from: Riversider on June 28, 2019, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: Deeping_white on June 28, 2019, 12:24:59 AM
Quote from: Riversider on June 27, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Jack Clarke of Leeds United is a quality player, destined to play at the highest level, would put him in the same bracket as David Brooks of Bournemouth, anyway , he has had a medical at Spurs today ahead of his £8.5 million deal,
With that in mind, if Clarke is only worth £8.5 then no way on Earth is Ryan Sessegnon worth £35 million, in fact no where near,
Great business again by Levy and Spurs.
Remind me what Jack Clarke has actually done? Sess was doing more at 16 than he did at 18 - an 18 year old having a half decent season is about right for £8.5m - Sess was consistently very good for two seasons at the same level, so based purely on footballing ability he's worth at least treble that seeing as Clarke is a winger who scored twice in 22 games for Leeds. The only thing that bumps down Sess being worth £35m is the fact his contract is due to expire within a year, otherwise we're well within our rights to ask for that much.
Clarke has the opportunity to one day prove whether or not he can make it in The Premier League, if he can his value will soar as Brookes and Maddison before him found out,
The problem Sessegnon and Fulham Football Club have is that he has been given that opportunity and what shall we say, "he was found wanting" or "he failed miserably " or "he flopped" you choose, but whatever you come with this is the reason his valuation has fallen so dramatically,
Season 19/20 is a huge season for Ryan, whether it's with Spurs, Fulham or anybody else, he MUST have a stellar season with no more excuses.
Yes but that's not the point you were making though - you were trying to draw comparisons between the two of them in terms of transfer fee, and the only comparison you can make between the two is the performances in the championship, of which Sess blows Clarke out of the water. Maybe if we were a stable mid table PL team then Sess would have had a much better season like Maddison & Brooks were able to, if they both end up at Spurs I know who my money is on to prove themselves as being the better player. Don't forget that Ryan has consistently played above his own age group for the national team too so he's constantly being pushed to become a better player, something the others never managed to achieve.
I've got no doubt that should be play in the championship this coming season he'll do very well, and in a stable PL team he'd also get the chance to flourish. He only "flopped" because as a collective we looked god awful at times last season, there was no standout player because to be enabled to perform at your best, you need everyone around you to be performing at a certain level too
Quote from: Statto on June 28, 2019, 11:21:00 AM
I agree Sessegnon is "extremely merited and experienced for his age" but in a debate comparing Sessegnon to Wan Bissaka, I don't see the relevance of comparing Sessegnon to "all other players ever of his age". I'm not disputing that either player is very good in comparison to other players their age.
On the second point, as I said, personally I don't see a good season in the Championship as much better than a poor season in the PL. You seem to concede that they difference may only be marginal, and if the impact is only marginal then I'm not sure whether/why you'd continue to treat this point as supporting your case.
Your original statement was "Any buyers would not only be interested based on last years performances." Perhaps we can agree it should have been, "*Some* buyers *may* not only be interested based on last years performances *albeit, in any case, one good season in the Championship may only be treated as marginally better than a poor season in the PL*."
Sessegnon would probably not have got into Palace's team because their players, such as Schlupp, are better. Of course there's a slim chance he could have raised his game in a better team, just as AK47 could become a world class player if thrown into Man City's team, but I think most people will accept that comparisons of players' respective abilities should be based on their current, actual performance rather than the 1% chance that absolutely any player has of becoming a much better player in a much better team.
I agree that "everything else alike, of course it is better to be three years younger." But everything else is not alike. Wan Bissaka is a better player.
I agree that "below 20 million should be a complete no go, since he is worth more to us as a player". My point is just that no one will bid £20m for him (up front).
I am not debating Sessegnon's value only as compared to Wan Bisaka, since that is not in my opinion a sufficient way to attach a market value to a player. There are more factors involved, such as the position of the selling club and the eagerness to move from the point of view of the player and the economical strength of the buying club as well as the number of interested clubs. But any way, then he is very experienced compared to Wan Bisaka at a similar age (not that it in itself necessarily is too important, but one of many factors that may play a role in determining the value of a player).
You are right in that I stated that the impact of Sessegnon's previous seasons may be marginal. The word "may" in this case is used for two reasons. The first is to make it clear that I didn't state this as a fact. The second is that I don't necessarily believe it to be marginal. I don't see this in any way as me conceding that it is marginal, that is entirely down to your interpretation. I stand by my point that I believe that it matters, but concede that I may not necessarily be correct or doesn't necessarily matter much. I hope that was clear enough?
To add to that, Sessegnon doesn't have either a good season in the Championship or a poor season in the PL so you don't necessarily have to compare them. He has, in my opinion, one good and one very good season in the Championship, plus one poor season in the PL. This shows he has the talent, but wasn't necessarily ready to step up this year.
As for what my statement should have been according to you, why does it matter? I already in my last post explained that I did not intend to present it as a fact, and as such again yes I could have worded it differently. This added nothing to the debate however, since it should already have been cleared up.
Speaking of facts, your "1% chance that absolutely any player has of becoming a much better player in a much better team" is presented as applicable in this situation. I believe that is to sell Sessegnon's abilities well short, and is absolutely no fact. If I say that it was a 99 % chance that he would perform better at Crystal Palace, that would also be no fact. I stand by my comment that the performance of the team as a whole may very well have had a negative impact on Sess, and that he may have performed far better in a better environment. I don't find this unreasonable.
Lastly, I never stated that Sessegnon is better than Wan Bisaka or that he should be more expensive. I stated that he is younger, which in itself is positive. This may have an impact on the price, in my opinion. I never said that everything else was alike.
Quote from: mlangstrom on June 28, 2019, 08:33:38 AM
Quote from: Jamie88 on June 27, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: SG on June 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Well if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m
Not sure about that. Wan Bissaka was fantastic for Palace last season and showed he can perform at PL level. Sess unfortunately not so much
42 PL games 3 assists and 0 goals, even for an attacking fullback...doesn't scream 50m does it.
The number one responsibility of a full back is to defend (Fulham seem to forget this). Basaka is arguably one of the top 3 defending FB in the EPL.
Sent from my BND-L34 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 28, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
I am not debating Sessegnon's value only as compared to Wan Bisaka...
The post of mine to which you initially replied was my response to another poster's comment that "if Wan Bissaka is £50m then Sess is worth considerably more than the oft quoted £25m". So if you're "not debating Sessegnon's value only as compared to Wan Bisaka" then of course that's fine, but it's not relevant to me or this particular sub-thread.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 28, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
I stand by my point that I believe that [the impact of Sessegnon's previous seasons] matters, but concede that I may not necessarily be correct or doesn't necessarily matter much.
Fine, agreed.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 28, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
I stand by my comment that the performance of the team as a whole may very well have had a negative impact on Sess, and that he may have performed far better in a better environment. I don't find this unreasonable.
I agree with you, he "may" have performed much better at Palace. But I see no reason to think it likely, and I think the general approach of football clubs when valuing players (disregarding the potential of young players to improve quickly, which I think is a separate point) is just to do it with reference to their performances or the current/previous club(s), rather than relying on the general possibility that any player in a poor team may suddenly look a different player in a better team. Otherwise, there'd always be a huge clamour for Ryman League players on the basis that, according to your theory, they'd look brilliant at Man City or Liverpool.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 28, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
Lastly, I never stated that Sessegnon is better than Wan Bisaka or that he should be more expensive. I stated that he is younger, which in itself is positive. This may have an impact on the price, in my opinion. I never said that everything else was alike.
When making the point about age, you said "
everything else alike, of course it is better to be three years younger" which I interpreted to mean "if everything else was alike..." If that's not what you meant, fine.
My fundamental point was that since everything else is not alike, and Wan Bisaka is a better player, Sessegnon's age merely gives him the potential (but certainly not a guarantee) to be as good as Wan Bisaka when Sessegnon is Wan Bisaka's age. In other words, Sessegnon represents almost entirely unrealised potential, whereas Wan Bisaka represents semi-realised potential. To me, the latter seems much more valuable, even if the former still has a chance of catching him up.
I think Ryan Sessegnon could be worth £45m, but as it is the end of Ryan Sessegnon's contract he is effectively going to be auctioned in the next few weeks. An auction requires two bidders with money, I think Spurs would be willing to buy Ryan Sessegnon at the price they can sell Danny Rose (e.g. £35m), but who is the other team that is going to bid on him, I doubt Crystal Palace would be willing to spend most of their Wan-Bissaka on Ryan Sessegnon as they will want immediate results. Fulham will get what the second highest bidder is willing to pay, its basically an auction no point waiting any longer, going once twice sold.
The big worry is that this situation with Sess. can continue throughout the window with Spurs making a snatch on deadline day and leaving us without a good replacement.
Quote from: filham on July 01, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
The big worry is that this situation with Sess. can continue throughout the window with Spurs making a snatch on deadline day and leaving us without a good replacement.
I don't necessarily buy this. If we know how much we will accept, we should have replacements lined up. We won't just sell and not be prepared, makes no sense.
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 01, 2019, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: filham on July 01, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
The big worry is that this situation with Sess. can continue throughout the window with Spurs making a snatch on deadline day and leaving us without a good replacement.
I don't necessarily buy this. If we know how much we will accept, we should have replacements lined up. We won't just sell and not be prepared, makes no sense.
Think back to the Dembele and Dempsey move to Spurs.
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 01, 2019, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: filham on July 01, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
The big worry is that this situation with Sess. can continue throughout the window with Spurs making a snatch on deadline day and leaving us without a good replacement.
I don't necessarily buy this. If we know how much we will accept, we should have replacements lined up. We won't just sell and not be prepared, makes no sense.
I'd share that opinion if FFC in the Khan era had a good record at getting replacements for any outgoing player. TK suggests, in his podcast, that players are lined up as replacements but it just doesn't happen. That is what bothers me about selling any player - if we cannot secure decent and suitable replacements then we are stuffed. Christie for Fredericks is a most glaring example especially when we then add TF-M into the mix. Are we chasing the wrong players or just getting by-passed almost every time we chase a more likely suspect. I'd prefer we stick with what we have as long as we can, until we find out what it is that is making people choose others over us.
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 01, 2019, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: filham on July 01, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
The big worry is that this situation with Sess. can continue throughout the window with Spurs making a snatch on deadline day and leaving us without a good replacement.
I don't necessarily buy this. If we know how much we will accept, we should have replacements lined up. We won't just sell and not be prepared, makes no sense.
Unlikely that a good and available replacement will be sitting around until deadline day in the hope that we could come in with an offer, more likely that we would grab a left over that no one really wanted.
Quote from: filham on July 05, 2019, 12:21:12 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 01, 2019, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: filham on July 01, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
The big worry is that this situation with Sess. can continue throughout the window with Spurs making a snatch on deadline day and leaving us without a good replacement.
I don't necessarily buy this. If we know how much we will accept, we should have replacements lined up. We won't just sell and not be prepared, makes no sense.
Unlikely that a good and available replacement will be sitting around until deadline day in the hope that we could come in with an offer, more likely that we would grab a left over that no one really wanted.
or the replacement may wait knowing what terms we will offer him and if Sess doesnt go move elsewhere on deadline day prehaps why so many deals go though on that day
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Hopefully he signs a new contract otherwise Fulham will logically miss out on millions of pounds come next summer.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Hopefully he signs a new contract otherwise Fulham will logically miss out on millions of pounds come next summer.
So?
The owner was willing to shell out 600 million for a stadium. I doubt he's thinking about NEXT seasons purse with one player.
Correction...he's probably thinking about how that one player can help him come back up to the big league so he can make way more money.
He's not worried about that gamble possibly costing him 20 million pounds. He can make up that loss with one of his other business ventures. He may even count is as a write off.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Hopefully he signs a new contract otherwise Fulham will logically miss out on millions of pounds come next summer.
So?
The owner was willing to shell out 600 million for a stadium. I doubt he's thinking about NEXT seasons purse with one player.
Correction...he's probably thinking about how that one player can help him come back up to the big league so he can make way more money.
He's not worried about that gamble possibly costing him 20 million pounds. He can make up that loss with one of his other business ventures. He may even count is as a write off.
Of course he is... he's a businessman and doesn't want to waste his club's money (what he really wants to do is grow the club's value). He's renovating Craven Cottage to make FFC more money. So of course if selling Ryan will make FFC more money he will do it and he should.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 07:22:53 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Hopefully he signs a new contract otherwise Fulham will logically miss out on millions of pounds come next summer.
So?
The owner was willing to shell out 600 million for a stadium. I doubt he's thinking about NEXT seasons purse with one player.
Correction...he's probably thinking about how that one player can help him come back up to the big league so he can make way more money.
He's not worried about that gamble possibly costing him 20 million pounds. He can make up that loss with one of his other business ventures. He may even count is as a write off.
Of course he is... he's a businessman and doesn't want to waste his club's money (what he really wants to do is grow the club's value). He's renovating Craven Cottage to make FFC more money. So of course if selling Ryan will make FFC more money he will do it and he should.
You're thinking short term. Good business men don't think short term.
Sell him...then what? Buy who? Use that money gained in what way? Explain more than...
Sess contract = money
That's small owner mentality. If Khan needed the money to buy another player then I understand the sale. But if Khan really wants to buy a player does he need Sess sale $$ to do so. No, he doesn't.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 07:22:53 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Hopefully he signs a new contract otherwise Fulham will logically miss out on millions of pounds come next summer.
So?
The owner was willing to shell out 600 million for a stadium. I doubt he's thinking about NEXT seasons purse with one player.
Correction...he's probably thinking about how that one player can help him come back up to the big league so he can make way more money.
He's not worried about that gamble possibly costing him 20 million pounds. He can make up that loss with one of his other business ventures. He may even count is as a write off.
Of course he is... he's a businessman and doesn't want to waste his club's money (what he really wants to do is grow the club's value). He's renovating Craven Cottage to make FFC more money. So of course if selling Ryan will make FFC more money he will do it and he should.
It's hardly a waste of money of he contributes significantly to us getting promoted (even if he does then leave when his contract expires). Think a bit more strategically.
The way TK has been overpaying for mediocre players we're likely to lose money on most sales and that puts us in a difficult position with FFP. Selling Sessegnon could actually get us some desperately needed transfer funds. A promotion would be worth more but it's a gamble.
35 million and a % of his future sell on fee and more conditions related to his success.. I'd take something like that.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 07:22:53 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 06:30:57 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on July 06, 2019, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 06, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on July 05, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
The fact that he has been played out of position a couple of times doesn't necessarily make him versatile. He's not defensively good enough to be a PL quality LB yet. Perhaps he never will be. And he's certainly no CF. He's mainly a winger who needs to play in a certain formation and a certain style of football to succeed. He's definitely not a traditional 4-4-2 winger. Versatility is not his biggest strength at all IMO. Lets be realistic, no top6 team would seriously consider him as a LB/RB/LW/RW/CF.
Agreed.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
Ander Herrera just got a contract for 350k per week. Why? Because there was no sign on fee so the buying team put all the money in his salary.
Unless Ryan is stupid he's going to play for Fulham this year and he's going to play well...then he's going to cash in big with someone when Fulham comes back up.
But we'll continue to hear 'reasons' why people think it's logical for Ryan to move on.
Hopefully he signs a new contract otherwise Fulham will logically miss out on millions of pounds come next summer.
So?
The owner was willing to shell out 600 million for a stadium. I doubt he's thinking about NEXT seasons purse with one player.
Correction...he's probably thinking about how that one player can help him come back up to the big league so he can make way more money.
He's not worried about that gamble possibly costing him 20 million pounds. He can make up that loss with one of his other business ventures. He may even count is as a write off.
Of course he is... he's a businessman and doesn't want to waste his club's money (what he really wants to do is grow the club's value). He's renovating Craven Cottage to make FFC more money. So of course if selling Ryan will make FFC more money he will do it and he should.
You're thinking short term. Good business men don't think short term.
Sell him...then what? Buy who? Use that money gained in what way? Explain more than...
Sess contract = money
That's small owner mentality. If Khan needed the money to buy another player then I understand the sale. But if Khan really wants to buy a player does he need Sess sale $$ to do so. No, he doesn't.
The problem is that Sessegnon's contract will run out next summer and it does not seem that he is willing to sign a new contract, even one that contains a buy out clause.
So, either Fulham sell him now to make as much money as possible or the contract runs down and we get some kind of compensation.
What do you think a good businessman will do?
It's worth selling Sessegnon for £20m+, i'm sure having £400k per week on loans is better than keeping Sessegnon.
It's a bit painful to read pages and pages of this debate because it only involves a handful of simple factors but will keep going on because those factors are unknown and, to the extent we can guess, finely balanced...
(a) The cash we can for him now (£15m?)
(b) The probability that if we don't go up, he'll likely (99%?) decline to re-sign
(c) The tiny fee we'll get under the FIFA compensation system (£500k?) or moderate fee at an English tribunal (£5m?) depending on whether he goes to an English/foreign club
(d) The cost of a replacement (another £15m?) (also factoring in TK's poor spending record and the general inherent risk in all transfers)
(e) The amount it will improve our chances of promotion and winning £100m+ if he stays (5%?)
(f) The probability (60%? ) that he'll re-sign if we go up
Personally I think it better to keep him, but without knowing (a) to (f) no one is going to put together a conclusive argument in this debate.
Agree statto keep him.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
Oh really, well answer me this, if he is anywhere near as good as you say he is why aren't the Elite teams fighting over him ?
Why haven't Man City shown an interest ? Or Liverpool ? What about United or Arsenal ?
Then what about some of the lesser clubs like Everton and Leicester ? Or even Palace ?
What about the likes of Watford and Southampton ?
Isn't the truth that these clubs have seen enough of Ryan Sessegnon to put them off wanting to bid and maybe just maybe he isn't as good as his Fan Club on here would have you believe,
You yourself have literally described him as a "Jack of all trades, master of none"
My advice to Sessegnon for next season, be it with Fulham or whoever is this, choose a position then excel in it it, become the best you can be in it,
Jokanovic didn't know his best position , Parker didn't know where to play him and The England U21's certainly don't know what to do with him
When he can play at an elite level in one position then and only then his value will soar and so will the interest in him,
If he stays with Fulham next season, what position do you want to see him play?
Quote from: Riversider on July 07, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 05, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Ryan Sessegnon is a massive addition to any Big Six team, he may already be possibly the "most versatile wide homegrown in the country". He has started in the Premier League as right back x1, right winger x6, centre forward x1, left winger x11 and left back x4, all before his 19th Birthday, while I don't think he will get too many starts or even subs on in his first season. He has the versatile that a Big team would want on the bench as their 18th Matchday Player.
Oh really, well answer me this, if he is anywhere near as good as you say he is why aren't the Elite teams fighting over him ?
Why haven't Man City shown an interest ? Or Liverpool ? What about United or Arsenal ?
Then what about some of the lesser clubs like Everton and Leicester ? Or even Palace ?
What about the likes of Watford and Southampton ?
Isn't the truth that these clubs have seen enough of Ryan Sessegnon to put them off wanting to bid and maybe just maybe he isn't as good as his Fan Club on here would have you believe,
You yourself have literally described him as a "Jack of all trades, master of none"
My advice to Sessegnon for next season, be it with Fulham or whoever is this, choose a position then excel in it it, become the best you can be in it,
Jokanovic didn't know his best position , Parker didn't know where to play him and The England U21's certainly don't know what to do with him
When he can play at an elite level in one position then and only then his value will soar and so will the interest in him,
If he stays with Fulham next season, what position do you want to see him play?
Very sensible points, Riversider, and further reasons why the lad himself may be in something of a quandary about what to do for the best.
Quote from: Statto on July 07, 2019, 09:39:03 AM
It's a bit painful to read pages and pages of this debate because it only involves a handful of simple factors but will keep going on because those factors are unknown and, to the extent we can guess, finely balanced...
(a) The cash we can for him now (£15m?)
(b) The probability that if we don't go up, he'll likely (99%?) decline to re-sign
(c) The tiny fee we'll get under the FIFA compensation system (£500k?) or moderate fee at an English tribunal (£5m?) depending on whether he goes to an English/foreign club
(d) The cost of a replacement (another £15m?) (also factoring in TK's poor spending record and the general inherent risk in all transfers)
(e) The amount it will improve our chances of promotion and winning £100m+ if he stays (5%?)
(f) The probability (60%? ) that he'll re-sign if we go up
Personally I think it better to keep him, but without knowing (a) to (f) no one is going to put together a conclusive argument in this debate.
a) £30n
b) 95%
c) spot on
d) £6m per year for above average DoF, $8m for ours
e) 10-15%, but 35% if we spend money on loans
f) 20% other Big 6 teams will offer more
If my above assumptions are correct sell him now
I don't know if he's going to stay.
I just think (based on what Ander Herrera did) it's more financially beneficial for Ryan Sessegnon to play out his final year at Fulham.
Also, I don't think he played well enough last season to warrant any EPL team spending more than 15 million on him with only one year left.
So...back to the initial post.
Has there been a 35 million pound bid made for him? Yes, no?
Also...has there EVER been an official bid put forth for Ryan, or has it always been English paper talk?
I read about this back in 2017 (https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2017/8/15/16148284/tottenham-hotspur-transfer-news-rumors-ryan-sessegnon-fulham-reject-spurs-bid)...but at the end of the article it says...
QuoteIf this £25m offer is legitimate, then it's hard to believe that the pursuit of Sessegnon is over.
Who knows what to believe?
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 07, 2019, 10:30:30 PM
I don't know if he's going to stay.
I just think (based on what Ander Herrera did) it's more financially beneficial for Ryan Sessegnon to play out his final year at Fulham.
Also, I don't think he played well enough last season to warrant any EPL team spending more than 15 million on him with only one year left.
So...back to the initial post.
Has there been a 35 million pound bid made for him? Yes, no?
Also...has there EVER been an official bid put forth for Ryan, or has it always been English paper talk?
I read about this back in 2017 (https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2017/8/15/16148284/tottenham-hotspur-transfer-news-rumors-ryan-sessegnon-fulham-reject-spurs-bid)...but at the end of the article it says...
QuoteIf this £25m offer is legitimate, then it's hard to believe that the pursuit of Sessegnon is over.
Who knows what to believe?
If Konsa is worth £12m and nearly 22 years old, then Sess is worth £35m.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 08, 2019, 04:21:08 AM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 07, 2019, 10:30:30 PM
I don't know if he's going to stay.
I just think (based on what Ander Herrera did) it's more financially beneficial for Ryan Sessegnon to play out his final year at Fulham.
Also, I don't think he played well enough last season to warrant any EPL team spending more than 15 million on him with only one year left.
So...back to the initial post.
Has there been a 35 million pound bid made for him? Yes, no?
Also...has there EVER been an official bid put forth for Ryan, or has it always been English paper talk?
I read about this back in 2017 (https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2017/8/15/16148284/tottenham-hotspur-transfer-news-rumors-ryan-sessegnon-fulham-reject-spurs-bid)...but at the end of the article it says...
QuoteIf this £25m offer is legitimate, then it's hard to believe that the pursuit of Sessegnon is over.
Who knows what to believe?
If Konsa is worth £12m and nearly 22 years old, then Sess is worth £35m.
Konsa has 3 yrs left on his contract.
Sessegnon has 1 Yr.
To me that says Sessegnon has to have three times as much potential as Konsa (which is probably about right) to be worth £12m
Can't help but feel Sess is making a big mistake. We'd have every right not to play him if he won't sign a new deal and we can't sell for a good price. Then he's less likely to get his big move.
Conversely if he renews and has a release fee built in to his contract then he will get game time here and still be able to move on once the interest is firmed up.
He has 15 years to earn the big money, shouldn't be so impatient.
It is his Agent who is impatient!!
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Can't help but feel Sess is making a big mistake. We'd have every right not to play him if he won't sign a new deal and we can't sell for a good price. Then he's less likely to get his big move.
Conversely if he renews and has a release fee built in to his contract then he will get game time here and still be able to move on once the interest is firmed up.
He has 15 years to earn the big money, shouldn't be so impatient.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's naive. Say he suffers a knee injury like Mawson before he's 25. Or has a concussion that becomes a lingering issue.
He has to think about his own future since no one else will.
And sitting him on the bench only hurts Fulham because he's better than both Ayite and Kabano as a goal poacher. Fulham will need Sess' offense if he isn't moved on and a better winger isn't brought onboard (and Fulham still need a good RW and backup striker to boot)
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 08, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Can't help but feel Sess is making a big mistake. We'd have every right not to play him if he won't sign a new deal and we can't sell for a good price. Then he's less likely to get his big move.
Conversely if he renews and has a release fee built in to his contract then he will get game time here and still be able to move on once the interest is firmed up.
He has 15 years to earn the big money, shouldn't be so impatient.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's naive. Say he suffers a knee injury like Mawson before he's 25. Or has a concussion that becomes a lingering issue.
He has to think about his own future since no one else will.
And sitting him on the bench only hurts Fulham because he's better than both Ayite and Kabano as a goal poacher. Fulham will need Sess' offense if he isn't moved on and a better winger isn't brought onboard (and Fulham still need a good RW and backup striker to boot)
I appreciate it's career and he has the right to earn as much as he can. Whilst he has to think of his future, we have to think of ours. If he won't move for a fee and he won't stay then we need to get in someone in who will be here beyond this season.
Apparently, with a capital 'A' we're holding out for £40M for Ryan S. Good - time to play hardball with Daniel Levy.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 08, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Can't help but feel Sess is making a big mistake. We'd have every right not to play him if he won't sign a new deal and we can't sell for a good price. Then he's less likely to get his big move.
Conversely if he renews and has a release fee built in to his contract then he will get game time here and still be able to move on once the interest is firmed up.
He has 15 years to earn the big money, shouldn't be so impatient.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's naive. Say he suffers a knee injury like Mawson before he's 25. Or has a concussion that becomes a lingering issue.
He has to think about his own future since no one else will.
And sitting him on the bench only hurts Fulham because he's better than both Ayite and Kabano as a goal poacher. Fulham will need Sess' offense if he isn't moved on and a better winger isn't brought onboard (and Fulham still need a good RW and backup striker to boot)
I appreciate it's career and he has the right to earn as much as he can. Whilst he has to think of his future, we have to think of ours. If he won't move for a fee and he won't stay then we need to get in someone in who will be here beyond this season.
Why is keeping Ryan for only one year OR worry about the future spot mutually exclusive?
Fulham FC is not a poor club. The owner isn't poor and isn't reliant on Fulham's revenue to buy other ventures, so can we please stop worrying about Fulham and $$$ (unless it's related to FFP)
Let's be honest. If Ryan doesn't go before the season starts he's not going before next May because the Khans don't have to sell him. And I don't think either the Khans or Ryan would be mad about it.
We all knew Ryan's wish was that he leave this summer. Ryan knew it. The Khans knew it.
But to make it viable for all parties involved (including the purchasing team) an amount had to be agreed upon that would provide value to Ryan, the Khans and (let's just say for sh and giggles it's the Spurs) Tottenham.
It hasn't happened yet. We're past the midway point of the transfer window. Teams are now buying...yet we still haven't heard of an official bid.
The Khans aren't desperate to sell because they can use Ryan as a starter this season.
Ryan isn't desperate because he knows he can earn more after he has a good year and there is no buy on fee.
The Spurs aren't desperate because...let's be honest...they don't value Ryan as much as the fans on this forum.
So here we stand...with Ryan not even able to raise his stock on the U21 squad because he's injured.
I agree that he's worth 15 million.
What impact left winger are the Khans going to bring in for that amount? Why not just hold on to Ryan who we know can score in the championship? He already knows how to play with the players on this squad and doesn't have to be vetted in.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 08, 2019, 07:10:10 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 08, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Can't help but feel Sess is making a big mistake. We'd have every right not to play him if he won't sign a new deal and we can't sell for a good price. Then he's less likely to get his big move.
Conversely if he renews and has a release fee built in to his contract then he will get game time here and still be able to move on once the interest is firmed up.
He has 15 years to earn the big money, shouldn't be so impatient.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's naive. Say he suffers a knee injury like Mawson before he's 25. Or has a concussion that becomes a lingering issue.
He has to think about his own future since no one else will.
And sitting him on the bench only hurts Fulham because he's better than both Ayite and Kabano as a goal poacher. Fulham will need Sess' offense if he isn't moved on and a better winger isn't brought onboard (and Fulham still need a good RW and backup striker to boot)
I appreciate it's career and he has the right to earn as much as he can. Whilst he has to think of his future, we have to think of ours. If he won't move for a fee and he won't stay then we need to get in someone in who will be here beyond this season.
Why is keeping Ryan for only one year OR worry about the future spot mutually exclusive?
Fulham FC is not a poor club. The owner isn't poor and isn't reliant on Fulham's revenue to buy other ventures, so can we please stop worrying about Fulham and $$$ (unless it's related to FFP)
Let's be honest. If Ryan doesn't go before the season starts he's not going before next May because the Khans don't have to sell him. And I don't think either the Khans or Ryan would be mad about it.
We all knew Ryan's wish was that he leave this summer. Ryan knew it. The Khans knew it.
But to make it viable for all parties involved (including the purchasing team) an amount had to be agreed upon that would provide value to Ryan, the Khans and (let's just say for sh and giggles it's the Spurs) Tottenham.
It hasn't happened yet. We're past the midway point of the transfer window. Teams are now buying...yet we still haven't heard of an official bid.
The Khans aren't desperate to sell because they can use Ryan as a starter this season.
Ryan isn't desperate because he knows he can earn more after he has a good year and there is no buy on fee.
The Spurs aren't desperate because...let's be honest...they don't value Ryan as much as the fans on this forum.
So here we stand...with Ryan not even able to raise his stock on the U21 squad because he's injured.
I agree that he's worth 15 million.
What impact left winger are the Khans going to bring in for that amount? Why not just hold on to Ryan who we know can score in the championship? He already knows how to play with the players on this squad and doesn't have to be vetted in.
If we can afford to sign his replacement and bed him in this year then all well and good.
By the way I wasn't saying we shouldn't play him, just saying it's not worth the risk to him. That was my point. I just hope he does reach his potential and doesn't fall short because he moved too soon.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 08, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on July 08, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Can't help but feel Sess is making a big mistake. We'd have every right not to play him if he won't sign a new deal and we can't sell for a good price. Then he's less likely to get his big move.
Conversely if he renews and has a release fee built in to his contract then he will get game time here and still be able to move on once the interest is firmed up.
He has 15 years to earn the big money, shouldn't be so impatient.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's naive. Say he suffers a knee injury like Mawson before he's 25. Or has a concussion that becomes a lingering issue.
He has to think about his own future since no one else will.
And sitting him on the bench only hurts Fulham because he's better than both Ayite and Kabano as a goal poacher. Fulham will need Sess' offense if he isn't moved on and a better winger isn't brought onboard (and Fulham still need a good RW and backup striker to boot)
I think the point about injury is crucial. He suffered a hamstring problem playing for England u21s and we do not know if it's a tear, a strain, or a problem he has had before that has flared and/or worsened again. There is a tendency for players to get injured when they are being more tentative when playing (e.g. trying to protect a weakness - look at Cairney's rough passage when trying to recover from his knee problem). RS has to weigh all the factors up in his mind and notice how misfortunes do as much damage to your worth as good performances do good. I hope he makes the right choice but I think he needs to understand that, for the moment at least, his boss is still FFC.
Sessegnon will be staying short term. He'll sign a 3 year contract at the end of August with a get out. Whether he eventualy goes January or at the end of the season we'll have to wait and see.
You heard it here first. Pats on the back please when it proves true. (You can kick me the arse if I'm wrong).
Quote from: The Old Count on July 09, 2019, 06:07:36 PM
Sessegnon will be staying short term. He'll sign a 3 year contract at the end of August with a get out. Whether he eventualy goes January or at the end of the season we'll have to wait and see.
You heard it here first. Pats on the back please when it proves true. (You can kick me the arse if I'm wrong).
Actually...you heard it from ME first. :dft012:
You'll get credit for the contract terms though.
So, just listened to the Fulhamish podcast.
They seem to think that Ryan has to sign a new deal for just 2 years if another team doesn't put in a suitable offer for him. They feel there is no way the club can afford to let him ride out his contract.
They mentioned that the club would have to present some type of deterrence (I won't say threat...but that's what it would be) to force Ryan to not ride out his contract.
Hmmm...
So...you stick a player that scored 16 goals two years ago on the bench out of spite?
You hurt the clubs performance on the pitch (essentially) by moving a player to the U23s instead of using him?
The expression "cutting off nose to spite the face" comes to mind.
Personally, because I want Fulham to come right back up I hope Ryan stays because I don't see Fulham bringing in a better left winger, and we already know their isn't one currently on the squad.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on July 11, 2019, 08:01:02 PM
So, just listened to the Fulhamish podcast.
They seem to think that Ryan has to sign a new deal for just 2 years if another team doesn't put in a suitable offer for him. They feel there is no way the club can afford to let him ride out his contract.
They mentioned that the club would have to present some type of deterrence (I won't say threat...but that's what it would be) to force Ryan to not ride out his contract.
Hmmm...
So...you stick a player that scored 16 goals two years ago on the bench out of spite?
You hurt the clubs performance on the pitch (essentially) by moving a player to the U23s instead of using him?
The expression "cutting off nose to spite the face" comes to mind.
Personally, because I want Fulham to come right back up I hope Ryan stays because I don't see Fulham bringing in a better left winger, and we already know their isn't one currently on the squad.
If Sessegnon stays, we maybe forced to sell the profitable players (and only 17/18 players are profitable) to pay for wages. If the wages bill of Fulham FC is very high, we will have to sell either Sessegnon, Cairney or Mitrovoic as they are the only players that can command a good profit of 5m+ (note Seri would get a good price but produce at least a 5m loss).
My opinion is being forced to sell a player on a five year contract (like Cairney or Mitro) because a player on one year contract (like Sessegnon) won't leave would be a disaster, although that would due to Fulham's mismanagement and is not Sessegnon's fault. I cannot see us keeping Sessegnon with any chance of promotion, i cannot believe our wages are low.
