We could have been bought by Mike Ashley.
:plus one:
That would surely have been pure hell on earth.
I think my internet must be broken because it's telling me Newcastle are in the division above us
They seem to be doing better than us though?
The point is well made by Statto.
An outcome of benefit to all may encompass Ashley doing a sharp about face and giving Benitez what he wants and needs to nurture success in much the same vein as Charlton's owner did with Lee Bowyer recently. Ashley could then arguably get the leverage he wants from a sale to new owners instead of the mess they'd inherit and have to sort out at the moment. Will Ashley's departure alone satisfy United fans? I rather doubt it.
I know I may not seem easy to please, so this may sound ironic, but I get the feeling that NUFC fans would never be satisfied until they're competing again at the top of the table. Beyond being a one team City with a bigger ground, I don't know why they feel that is their natural place however.
It depends what you want from your football club.
Most supporters would want:
1. An owner who gives a toss.
2. A club that is well-ran.
3. Long term stability.
4. Community/grassroots engagement.
Newcastle may be in the division above us, but it's an unhappy club...
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
Quote from: Burt on July 01, 2019, 01:12:36 PM
It depends what you want from your football club.
Most supporters would want:
1. An owner who gives a toss.
2. A club that is well-ran.
3. Long term stability.
4. Community/grassroots engagement.
Newcastle may be in the division above us, but it's an unhappy club...
Not sure which they beat us on.
According to some on here our owner only cares about his son and wouldn't finance another DoF that wasn't his son.
We're less well-run than Newcastle, insofar as they've spent roughly the same as us in the last few years (net) and remain in the PL.
Our long-term stability is, again according to some on here, entirely dependent on the owner continuing to support us.
No idea how our community engagement compares to Newcastle's, admittedly.
One thing that a lot of people seem to neglect with Ashley is all the advertising for Sports Direct he plasters all over the club while not paying a penny for it.
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
That's a fair call! I agree former premier league champions Blackburn Rovers natural level, with a 31,000 seater stadium up north and a mutli-millionaire sugar daddy covering an average of £10 million of losses per season, is a mid-table championship club.
What is our natural level?
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
According to some on here our owner .... wouldn't finance another DoF that wasn't his son.
Well, according to Tony Khan, Shahid Khan wouldn't have financed the Mitrovoic loan without his recommendation, even through TK implies everyone at the club including the accountant wanted Mitro. Shahid Khan is the only person that knows if this is true and he has never denied his sons story.
If TK is telling the truth, then he got funding for Mitrovoic where other DoFs couldn't have, so it's not a stretch to say he'll be better able to finance players in the future.
If Tony Khan lying, then his dad is covering for him, so it's not a stretch to say he'll back his son more financial.
Either way, SK is backing his son with "the money for Mitro" or the lie that he wouldn't have financed Mitro without TK. SK is backing his son in the past, surely he'll back him in the future with as much money as required for TK to be a good DoF.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 02, 2019, 05:14:54 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
According to some on here our owner .... wouldn't finance another DoF that wasn't his son.
Well, according to Tony Khan, Shahid Khan wouldn't have financed the Mitrovoic loan without his recommendation, even through TK implies everyone at the club including the accountant wanted Mitro. Shahid Khan is the only person that knows if this is true and he has never denied his sons story.
And yet TK, in the podcast, confirms a bid had already been made for Mitrovic by FFC prior to Mitro's decision to permanently move to Anderlecht suggesting that the money was already available to fund such a transfer. So how come it was so important for TK to get it over the line with SK other than being a rubber stamp? More evidence of TK the showman and promoter with BS the mark of his trade (as with all his fellow show folk and promoters).
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
Only after 9 years of turmoil, protests etc. Hardly a ringing endorsement of their ownership. No supporters should have to endure that
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Burt on July 01, 2019, 01:12:36 PM
It depends what you want from your football club.
Most supporters would want:
1. An owner who gives a toss.
2. A club that is well-ran.
3. Long term stability.
4. Community/grassroots engagement.
Newcastle may be in the division above us, but it's an unhappy club...
Not sure which they beat us on.
According to some on here our owner only cares about his son and wouldn't finance another DoF that wasn't his son.
We're less well-run than Newcastle, insofar as they've spent roughly the same as us in the last few years (net) and remain in the PL.
Our long-term stability is, again according to some on here, entirely dependent on the owner continuing to support us.
No idea how our community engagement compares to Newcastle's, admittedly.
I believe it is accepted that there has been a total lack on investment in their support infrastructure. The training facilities it is claimed are well below Premiership standards making it difficult to attract players. Article in the Times today with Benitez
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
Where would our natural level be and what is your rational?
Quote from: DevonFFC on July 02, 2019, 08:08:43 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
Where would our natural level be and what is your rational?
Good question :54:
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 02, 2019, 05:14:54 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
According to some on here our owner .... wouldn't finance another DoF that wasn't his son.
Well, according to Tony Khan, Shahid Khan wouldn't have financed the Mitrovoic loan without his recommendation, even through TK implies everyone at the club including the accountant wanted Mitro. Shahid Khan is the only person that knows if this is true and he has never denied his sons story.
He didn't say that at all.
There's no proof that anyone else couldn't get the same investment from SK. It's a complete misnomer.
Quote from: SG on July 02, 2019, 07:54:22 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
Only after 9 years of turmoil, protests etc. Hardly a ringing endorsement of their ownership. No supporters should have to endure that
It's 8 years since they were relegated and if you're going to call that "hell" despite them just having enjoyed a promotion season, then we've just had 6 years of "hell" as well. We both started as stable PL clubs, were both the laughing stock of English football at several points, and go into next season as Championship clubs aspiring to be promoted.
Also to be clear, I'm not seeking to "endorse" the Venkies. They're terrible owners, probably the worst in the league. So actually my point is more that these sorts of threads where we say "oh look, the Khans have done slightly better than the worst owners in the league" are hardly a "ringing endorsement" of the Khans. In politics they call this sort of thing "whataboutism"
Quote from: DevonFFC on July 02, 2019, 08:08:43 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 01, 2019, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 01, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
The Venky family purchased Blackburn Rovers in 2010 for £23m and then took it down from the Premier League. I doubt it will recover soon.
They're fine now. Mid-table championship club, which is their natural level.
Where would our natural level be and what is your rational?
Not really sure of the relevance but FWIW Probably the next level up, sonewhere from a very good Championship club to a stable PL club depending on how well/poorly we're run. With the rationale vis-a-vis Blackburn that we're based in London and as a consequence generally more attractive to players, gate receipts (per fan) are higher, we've a larger area to draw fans from when we do well, much nicer ground, more international exposure etc.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-stats-to-show-how-far-newcastle-have-declined-under-mike-ashley/
Quote from: Statto on July 02, 2019, 09:11:42 AM
It's 8 years since they were relegated and if you're going to call that "hell" despite them just having enjoyed a promotion season, then we've just had 6 years of "hell" as well. We both started as stable PL clubs, were both the laughing stock of English football at several points, and go into next season as Championship clubs aspiring to be promoted.
Also to be clear, I'm not seeking to "endorse" the Venkies. They're terrible owners, probably the worst in the league. So actually my point is more that these sorts of threads where we say "oh look, the Khans have done slightly better than the worst owners in the league" are hardly a "ringing endorsement" of the Khans. In politics they call this sort of thing "whataboutism"
No one is giving the Khans a "ringing endorsement", but Shahid Khan is providing the best financial backing available to any Championship team. The post proposes "It could be worse", which is true and doesn't disagree with "it could be better" which is also true, but it is a voice of sanity to make sure any changes proposed have the desired effect. I am sure the safest change is improving the recruitment team reporting to Tony Khan, adding quality scouts and sacking ones that have frequently misjudged players.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on July 02, 2019, 10:33:41 PM
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-stats-to-show-how-far-newcastle-have-declined-under-mike-ashley/
One of those stats really should be that they've just finished this season in exactly the same position (13th) they finished the season before Ashley's takeover
Shame we can't say the same
Newcastle relegated twice in 12 years under Ashley
V
Fulham relegated twice in 4 years under the Khans.
Newcastle still in the Prem!!
Yeah... it could be worse.... FOR Newcastle.
Ask a Newcastle support who they'd rather have.
Quote from: David I on July 03, 2019, 10:46:05 PM
Newcastle relegated twice in 12 years under Ashley
V
Fulham relegated twice in 4 years under the Khans.
Newcastle still in the Prem!!
Yeah... it could be worse.... FOR Newcastle.
Newcastle supporters contributed £38 million revenue when they are in the Championship (matchday and commercial) and Fulham supporters contributed less than £18 million (all revenue not including premier league parchate payments).
An extra £20million a year goes a long way in the Championship, even if not spent well. Maybe Fan revenue could be the biggest difference in fortunates between the clubs.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 04, 2019, 01:10:52 AM
Quote from: David I on July 03, 2019, 10:46:05 PM
Newcastle relegated twice in 12 years under Ashley
V
Fulham relegated twice in 4 years under the Khans.
Newcastle still in the Prem!!
Yeah... it could be worse.... FOR Newcastle.
Newcastle supporters contributed £38 million revenue when they are in the Championship (matchday and commercial) and Fulham supporters contributed less than £18 million (all revenue not including premier league parchate payments).
An extra £20million a year goes a long way in the Championship, even if not spent well. Maybe Fan revenue could be the biggest difference in fortunates between the clubs.
Also has a big effect on FFP limits doesn't it?
Quote from: RaySmith on July 04, 2019, 02:38:54 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 04, 2019, 01:10:52 AM
Quote from: David I on July 03, 2019, 10:46:05 PM
Newcastle relegated twice in 12 years under Ashley
V
Fulham relegated twice in 4 years under the Khans.
Newcastle still in the Prem!!
Yeah... it could be worse.... FOR Newcastle.
Newcastle supporters contributed £38 million revenue when they are in the Championship (matchday and commercial) and Fulham supporters contributed less than £18 million (all revenue not including premier league parchate payments).
An extra £20million a year goes a long way in the Championship, even if not spent well. Maybe Fan revenue could be the biggest difference in fortunates between the clubs.
Also has a big effect on FFP limits doesn't it?
Well, a simple calculation would say Newcastle could spend £60 million more over three years, but Mike Ashley is always planning for his next relegation within FFP rules and making sure he can provide a massive war chest to pump into the Newcastle United squad whenever relegated.
Newcastle's last season in the championship had a combined "operating expenses, amorization and impairment" of £176 million, compare that to Fulham's last season in the Championship where our "operating expenses, amorization and impairment" were £72 million (still one of the bigger spenders in the Championship).
Ultimately competitive football is not about shipping eighty plus goals in thirty eight games just because your recruitment team is not fit for purpose. When your recruitment is fit for purpose but you end up relegated for other reasons (e.g. just not being good enough to get the points required for safety) then that is less hard to take. FFC have just suffered the most ignominious of seasons where it has been hard to find just one thread to hold onto for what is to come and sense optimism. We no longer have a coach who has demonstrated his ability to lead and show that glimpses of better things are possible. Newcastle have also lost a good coach, but, for the moment, are still in the PL. We have not corrected our errors at recruitment level and seem en route to compound them and the clock is already ticking down.
I am not sure the comparisons with Newcastle are anything other than choosing which of two poisons is the less painful a death. Tame Khan Jnr and FFC could go places but, as I have said before, only if our head coach shows he can work the oracle and perform miracles. It is a lot to put on SP's shoulders.
Whether your pro or anti Khan it could be far worse imo, Clay/Bulstrode anyone!? Even the Hahaha's amongst other teams are in a worse position than us.
My two penny's.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on July 04, 2019, 06:50:28 AM
Whether your pro or anti Khan it could be far worse imo, Clay/Bulstrode anyone!? Even the Hahaha's amongst other teams are in a worse position than us.
My two penny's.
Yes, we have had the worse ever owners of any Football Club, and that's a real achievement when another club had owner that went to jail for trying to burn down his clubs stadium.
