Been reading a lot of posts on here lately, where Parker's being compared to Slavisa, in that his team is where his was at this point in the promotion season, Slavisa had periods of failure, we then went on a 23 game unbeaten run, yada yada..
Please, just stop it, Parker is nowhere near the level of Slavisa, if Slavisa was dished this team last time around, we'd be top, and I'd lay both my houses on it.
Not a Scott Parker out guy, not a Scott Parker fan either, find his style boring and unattractive, reminds me of Ray Wilkins a bit, but, it's what we've been dealt, and we'll certainly be in for a frustrating, Paul Bracewell type season, with a very good team underachieving.
It's want the owners son wanted, so..
I'm one of those who said that.
I am wrong. Sorry.
Someone said Parker did BETTER than Joka in the first 2 months of each of Joka's LAST 3 SEASONS with Fulham.
So far, Parker is definitely carving his own success as a new head coach:)
Quote from: Jimsbeerbelly on October 22, 2019, 12:41:22 AM
Been reading a lot of posts on here lately, where Parker's being compared to Slavisa, in that his team is where his was at this point in the promotion season, Slavisa had periods of failure, we then went on a 23 game unbeaten run, yada yada..
Please, just stop it, Parker is nowhere near the level of Slavisa, if Slavisa was dished this team last time around, we'd be top, and I'd lay both my houses on it.
Not a Scott Parker out guy, not a Scott Parker fan either, find his style boring and unattractive, reminds me of Ray Wilkins a bit, but, it's what we've been dealt, and we'll certainly be in for a frustrating, Paul Bracewell type season, with a very good team underachieving.
It's want the owners son wanted, so..
First Half of 17/18 Season vs 19/20 Season
1. Bettinelli vs Bettinelli
2. Fredericks vs S.Sessegnon (minor downgrade)
3. R.Sessegnon vs Bryan
4. Kalas vs Mawson
5. Ream vs Ream
6. McDonald vs Arter
7. Ojo vs Knockaert (major upgrade)
8. Johansen vs Johansen
9. Fonte vs Mitrovoic (massive upgrade)
10. Cairney vs Cairney
11. Ayité vs Cavalerio
Mitrovoic is an enormous upgrade, but otherwise its somewhat similar.
'Not a Scott Parker out guy, not a Scott Parker fan either, find his style boring and unattractive, reminds me of Ray Wilkins a bit, but, it's what we've been dealt, and we'll certainly be in for a frustrating, Paul Bracewell type season, with a very good team underachieving'
My thoughts entirely.
You have 2 houses? Was that a bragging moment then, or a necessary point to the thread? Just wondering.
Are you Slavisa in disguise?
Bit of an unecessary topic .Slavisa is gone and will always be a club legend. Parker is here and unless Im much mistaken has a better record in the PL than the serb. It proves nothing ,neither does speculating what SJ would or wouldnt have done with this squad. Sorry
Quote from: Jimsbeerbelly on October 22, 2019, 12:41:22 AM
Parker is nowhere near the level of Slavisa, if Slavisa was dished this team last time around, we'd be top ...
The first part of this is factually accurate. Jokanovic the coach is, IMO, light years ahead of Parker at this moment in time, and I find the comments about him not finding suitable employment in English football post Watford and post Fulham to make detrimental points against the man laughable. Roy Hodgson spent years away from English football too, so what does English football know?
However, the second part is conjecture, in that it implies the current squad is better adapted to the kinds of methods used by Jokanovic than the two squads he took to the play offs, and I am not sure that would do him any favours. Jokanovic didn't need the best players although it helped him to have reasonable and adaptable quality in key positions e.g. Cairney, Johansen, Fredericks, Malone/Targett, Sessegnon R, Aluko, Ayite, Odoi, Ream, Kalas, Mitro and Martin. Jokanovic never asked for problem players and he didn't play them until they understood and played as he would wish them to, to a system that he understood, practised and preached.
Parker hasn't yet found a system that he understands, practises and preaches. And that is the huge gulf between him and Jokanovic. Is that enough to guarantee Jokanovic success with this squad? I think we would be quite surprised about who he would have training and playing with the juniors having dropped them from the first team squad for not sticking to the plan ...
Too early to judge Parker, remember it took Jokanovic over half a season to get his team up and running.
I am right behind Parker and was pleased with his appointment but having said that I did expect better results than we have achieved up to now. Not sure how long we have to wait but one more window should enable him to fill critical weaknesses, if perhaps we could maintain a top ten place up to Christmas then perhaps we could move up to the top six by the end of the season.
All of that sounds mediocre but in fact it is not too bad for a relegated team.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 06:02:16 AM
Quote from: Jimsbeerbelly on October 22, 2019, 12:41:22 AM
Been reading a lot of posts on here lately, where Parker's being compared to Slavisa, in that his team is where his was at this point in the promotion season, Slavisa had periods of failure, we then went on a 23 game unbeaten run, yada yada..
Please, just stop it, Parker is nowhere near the level of Slavisa, if Slavisa was dished this team last time around, we'd be top, and I'd lay both my houses on it.
Not a Scott Parker out guy, not a Scott Parker fan either, find his style boring and unattractive, reminds me of Ray Wilkins a bit, but, it's what we've been dealt, and we'll certainly be in for a frustrating, Paul Bracewell type season, with a very good team underachieving.
It's want the owners son wanted, so..
First Half of 17/18 Season vs 19/20 Season
1. Bettinelli vs Bettinelli
2. Fredericks vs S.Sessegnon (minor downgrade)
3. R.Sessegnon vs Bryan
4. Kalas vs Mawson
5. Ream vs Ream
6. McDonald vs Arter
7. Ojo vs Knockaert (major upgrade)
8. Johansen vs Johansen
9. Fonte vs Mitrovoic (massive upgrade)
10. Cairney vs Cairney
11. Ayité vs Cavalerio
Mitrovoic is an enormous upgrade, but otherwise its somewhat similar.
I agree with most of the above except for one important thing: I personally consider S.Sessegnon a MASSIVE downgrade on Fredericks. Especially when considering how important Fredericks' pace was for Joka's style of football. He was one of the key elements of that team. S.Sess is more like the weakest link and the way he cuts inwards doesn't have anywhere near the effect of Fredericks' raids down the touchline.
In Parker's defense we actually have one point more than Joka's promotion team after 12 rounds. Unfortunately that required a record breaking unbeaten run to reach the playoffs and I can't see that happening again this season.
I think that Arter is a significant upgrade on KMac to be honest. Plus, when you factor in squad players like Kamara, Reed, Reid, Christie, you have to say this squad, as a whole, is much better than Slav's. Before Targett and Mitro came in January particularly.
Can you clear something up you say.
Yes...1 Spoon of bicarb soda,1 spoon Aloe vera,
1spoon of coconut oil...Mix into a paste and apply to the region.
Better tip is to stay away from Red Light Areas and seedy hotels.😜
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 06:02:16 AM
Quote from: Jimsbeerbelly on October 22, 2019, 12:41:22 AM
Been reading a lot of posts on here lately, where Parker's being compared to Slavisa, in that his team is where his was at this point in the promotion season, Slavisa had periods of failure, we then went on a 23 game unbeaten run, yada yada..
Please, just stop it, Parker is nowhere near the level of Slavisa, if Slavisa was dished this team last time around, we'd be top, and I'd lay both my houses on it.
Not a Scott Parker out guy, not a Scott Parker fan either, find his style boring and unattractive, reminds me of Ray Wilkins a bit, but, it's what we've been dealt, and we'll certainly be in for a frustrating, Paul Bracewell type season, with a very good team underachieving.
It's want the owners son wanted, so..
First Half of 17/18 Season vs 19/20 Season
1. Bettinelli vs Bettinelli
2. Fredericks vs S.Sessegnon (minor downgrade)
3. R.Sessegnon vs Bryan
4. Kalas vs Mawson
5. Ream vs Ream
6. McDonald vs Arter
7. Ojo vs Knockaert (major upgrade)
8. Johansen vs Johansen
9. Fonte vs Mitrovoic (massive upgrade)
10. Cairney vs Cairney
11. Ayité vs Cavalerio
Mitrovoic is an enormous upgrade, but otherwise its somewhat similar.
Is this a joke?
Arter is miles better than Kmac of 2 seasons ago.
Cav is miles better than Suite
Mawson is miles better than Kala's
You conveniently forgot Knockaert, again miles better than Ayite/Kebano.
I'm not a Parker our person but the team we have is much, much better than Slavs team.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 06:02:16 AM
Quote from: Jimsbeerbelly on October 22, 2019, 12:41:22 AM
Been reading a lot of posts on here lately, where Parker's being compared to Slavisa, in that his team is where his was at this point in the promotion season, Slavisa had periods of failure, we then went on a 23 game unbeaten run, yada yada..
Please, just stop it, Parker is nowhere near the level of Slavisa, if Slavisa was dished this team last time around, we'd be top, and I'd lay both my houses on it.
Not a Scott Parker out guy, not a Scott Parker fan either, find his style boring and unattractive, reminds me of Ray Wilkins a bit, but, it's what we've been dealt, and we'll certainly be in for a frustrating, Paul Bracewell type season, with a very good team underachieving.
It's want the owners son wanted, so..
First Half of 17/18 Season vs 19/20 Season
1. Bettinelli vs Bettinelli
2. Fredericks vs S.Sessegnon (minor downgrade)
3. R.Sessegnon vs Bryan
4. Kalas vs Mawson
5. Ream vs Ream
6. McDonald vs Arter
7. Ojo vs Knockaert (major upgrade)
8. Johansen vs Johansen
9. Fonte vs Mitrovoic (massive upgrade)
10. Cairney vs Cairney
11. Ayité vs Cavalerio
Mitrovoic is an enormous upgrade, but otherwise its somewhat similar.
Is this a joke?
Arter is miles better than Kmac of 2 seasons ago.
Cav is miles better than Ayite
Mawson is miles better than Kala's
You conveniently forgot Knockaert, again miles better than Ayite/Kebano.
I'm not a Parker our person but the team we have is much, much better than Slavs team.
S.F. Sorrow is so right about Fredericks, we have not replaced him and really miss his attacking pace,
How on earth we let him go on a free is difficult to understand.
Think back (if old enough) when Fulham sacked the man who was to become one of the best English managers ever. Sacked after one season.......Bobby Robson. I think we need to be patient, Parker seems like a smart man.
Quote from: jarv on October 22, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
Think back (if old enough) when Fulham sacked the man who was to become one of the best English managers ever. Sacked after one season.......Bobby Robson. I think we need to be patient, Parker seems like a smart man.
👍
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 22, 2019, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: jarv on October 22, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
Think back (if old enough) when Fulham sacked the man who was to become one of the best English managers ever. Sacked after one season.......Bobby Robson. I think we need to be patient, Parker seems like a smart man.
👍
+2 That's Sir Bobby Robson, we also sacked Vic Buckingham that went on to manager Barcelona. Could we make it three managers going from Fulham to Barcelona.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 22, 2019, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: jarv on October 22, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
Think back (if old enough) when Fulham sacked the man who was to become one of the best English managers ever. Sacked after one season.......Bobby Robson. I think we need to be patient, Parker seems like a smart man.
👍
+2 That's Sir Bobby Robson, we also sacked Vic Buckingham that went on to manager Barcelona. Could we make it three managers going from Fulham to Barcelona.
Vic Buckingham got the sack before I was born but my (sadly departed) great Uncles that went in that era didn't rate him and accused him of selling off good club servants and, with the exception of Allan Clarke, replacing them with players past their sell by date.
Anybody on here rembember his tenure?
Quote from: JoelH5 on October 22, 2019, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 06:02:16 AM
First Half of 17/18 Season vs 19/20 Season
1. Bettinelli vs Bettinelli
2. Fredericks vs S.Sessegnon (minor downgrade)
3. R.Sessegnon vs Bryan
4. Kalas vs Mawson
5. Ream vs Ream
6. McDonald vs Arter
7. Ojo vs Knockaert (major upgrade)
8. Johansen vs Johansen
9. Fonte vs Mitrovoic (massive upgrade)
10. Cairney vs Cairney
11. Ayité vs Cavalerio
Mitrovoic is an enormous upgrade, but otherwise its somewhat similar.
Is this a joke?
Arter is miles better than Kmac of 2 seasons ago.
Cav is miles better than Ayite
Mawson is miles better than Kala's
You conveniently forgot Knockaert, again miles better than Ayite/Kebano.
I'm not a Parker our person but the team we have is much, much better than Slavs team.
It's not a joke and some whoscored performance statistics make my point
Arter whoscored performance is well below McDonald of 2 seasons ago.
Cavalerio whoscored performance is much better than Ayité (I guess statistics disagree with me here).
Mawson whoscored performance is below Kalas of 2 seasons ago.
And I didn't forget Knockaert i said he was an major upgrade.
Plus Betts, Ream, Johasen and Cainrey are not playing quite as well.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on October 22, 2019, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 06:02:16 AM
First Half of 17/18 Season vs 19/20 Season
1. Bettinelli vs Bettinelli
2. Fredericks vs S.Sessegnon (minor downgrade)
3. R.Sessegnon vs Bryan
4. Kalas vs Mawson
5. Ream vs Ream
6. McDonald vs Arter
7. Ojo vs Knockaert (major upgrade)
8. Johansen vs Johansen
9. Fonte vs Mitrovoic (massive upgrade)
10. Cairney vs Cairney
11. Ayité vs Cavalerio
Mitrovoic is an enormous upgrade, but otherwise its somewhat similar.
Is this a joke?
Arter is miles better than Kmac of 2 seasons ago.
Cav is miles better than Ayite
Mawson is miles better than Kala's
You conveniently forgot Knockaert, again miles better than Ayite/Kebano.
I'm not a Parker our person but the team we have is much, much better than Slavs team.
It's not a joke and some whoscored performance statistics make my point
Arter whoscored performance is well below McDonald of 2 seasons ago.
Cavalerio whoscored performance is much better than Ayité (I guess statistics disagree with me here).
Mawson whoscored performance is below Kalas of 2 seasons ago.
And I didn't forget Knockaert i said he was an major upgrade.
Plus Betts, Ream, Johasen and Cainrey are not playing quite as well.
Of course the results ar e12 games max againt 46 games total which had a 23 game run in it. So the scores from 2 seasons agao are heavily weighted for a team that did so well
I thought McDonald was excellent in our promotion season; he may not have been our captain but he was our leader on the pitch and his influence was immense - never more so than in the play-off final after we went down to ten men. Second only to Ream for Player of the Season in my opinion.
To be fair, I don't think it belittles KMac or his contribution to say Arter is a better footballer. It's more of a compliment to Arter.
'Being better' (i.e having more ability) than another player and 'playing better' than him do not always go hand-in-hand. McDonald probably utilised his ability to the maximum in our promotion season. Arter's been decent in many games - but I don't agree that his contribution in what is just a quarter of the season justifies the tag 'significant' upgrade.
Apart from the best 11 individual players in their positions everyone else has someone better than them.
Its no shame or make that player any worse, just because someone better comes along.
I personally think this is a thoroughly interesting thread. I note SF Sorrow (as ever) provides interesting insights to the RB debate and reiterated the points I was making last season about Fredericks importance with SJ's tactics.
I think the issue is that Slav's style crashed in the Prem (multi factorial reasons but largely new faces as we've heavily discussed already) and that if he were to stick to the same tactics the squad may have lost a bit of belief in the "method" when the going got tough.
However, it does make you think whether Slav this season would've broken records for possession, goals etc. It could have been some of the best football we've seen at the Cottage.
I don't begrudge Parker having a crack, and Slav won't come back, but it's an interesting debate.
Quote from: JoelH5 on October 22, 2019, 01:10:32 PM
Is this a joke?
Arter is miles better than Kmac of 2 seasons ago.
Cav is miles better than Suite
Mawson is miles better than Kala's
You conveniently forgot Knockaert, again miles better than Ayite/Kebano.
I'm not a Parker our person but the team we have is much, much better than Slavs team.
All in all I think it's two big upgrades (Cavaleiro > Kamara; Mitrovic > Fonte) and one big downgrade (Fredericks > Sessegnon).
Arter vs KMac is debateable. Arter has already got himself sent off once.
Knockaert isn't better than Ayite IMO.
I'd say Mawson is slightly better than Kalas but many on here seem to think he's awful. Probably not much in it.
Yes this team is better but not ever so much.
Slavisa was a joy to have as a head coach. Much like when Schwarzer was our goalkeeper, you truly realise his importance as soon as he is gone.
Parker is merely an experiment we have to suffer through. I have my opinion on how the experiment will go, but only time will tell. I wish we had just gone with a proven manager.
Its not a matter of who is better than who, its a case what works best ...Arter is better footballer than KMac ..but Kmac is a leader who maybe too defensive but supports the defence and is the link to Cairney..
Problem at the moment is better players are not working together and think this league is easy with the attacking fancy football they play...but sometimes you need those gritty awkward players that dig out results.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 22, 2019, 04:29:06 PM
Slavisa was a joy to have as a head coach. Much like when Schwarzer was our goalkeeper, you truly realise his importance as soon as he is gone.
Parker is merely an experiment we have to suffer through. I have my opinion on how the experiment will go, but only time will tell. I wish we had just gone with a proven manager.
The Championship seems far more forgiving this year. Aren't playing that well but still in the races.
Quote from: jarv on October 22, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
Think back (if old enough) when Fulham sacked the man who was to become one of the best English managers ever. Sacked after one season.......Bobby Robson. I think we need to be patient, Parker seems like a smart man.
Not entirely sure you can compare Sir Bobby and Parker to be honest.
Arter vs KMac is debateable. Arter has already got himself sent off once.
I totally agree with this . Arter reminds me a bit of a fast robotic lawnmower ( albeit a quick one ) - he charges around trying to engage himself occasionally cutting things down . He has had some very good games for us but I am not entirely sure who , or what , is programming him .
Mac on the other hand is a tad slow but clearly thinks and has a brain. If he gets booked it's be cause he has 'taken one for the team' . He is a natural leader who commands respect from all around him
Quote from: HV71 on October 22, 2019, 08:45:30 PM
Arter vs KMac is debateable. Arter has already got himself sent off once.
I totally agree with this . Arter reminds me a bit of a fast robotic lawnmower ( albeit a quick one ) - he charges around trying to engage himself occasionally cutting things down . He has had some very good games for us but I am not entirely sure who , or what , is programming him .
Mac on the other hand is a tad slow but clearly thinks and has a brain. If he gets booked it's be cause he has 'taken one for the team' . He is a natural leader who commands respect from all around him
They are both top players, who can play an important role in the team.
Different styles, but both very committed to the cause, the types of players you want in your squad imo.
Yes, Arter plays on the edge, and has to be careful not to get carried away, but I want someone with that kind of will to win playing for us. he has a lot to offer with his pace, work rate, and passing ability.
While K Mac offers leadership, and is a cool head, as you say.
Arter needs to, like Mitro has largely done, keep a lid on his emotions, but we don't want him to lose his edge - like Mitro and Stef Jo. They all play on the edge to an extent, and a team needs players like that too.
Statistically speaking this team has as much chance of going on a record breaking unbeaten run as did the 2018 squad. Just because it happened recently doesn't reduce the chances of it happening again and in fact increases them slightly. But that is statistics for you ... and it doesn't mean it will happen. Personally I find the attempts at player comparisons to be banal. Ayite working in a good team is worse than Cavaleiro not working in a bad team is criminal logic.
