Can you drop him after he was probably our best midfielder against Brentford? If Reed and Arter are both fit (unlikely I guess) he is still in contention for a starting place given both have been out for a few weeks, Arter in particular.
Most of his good work was defensive, but occasionally tidy on the ball as well. However, IMO, does not create a lot. Maybe as he grows in confidence he can add a bit more of this as well.
From what I've heard, and seen from the highlights(?), he does seem to be improving as his confidence builds. Is he outstanding? Does he promise to be? Is he better than any of the other available midfielders?
Anyone who waas at the match yesterday have a view?
He's not outstanding, but he got the job done. You can tell he's still building confidence as he's passing the ball backwards when he can turn, etc. His goal is to keep the ball moving and maintain possession. Fulham supporters will either have their mind made up regardless, or they'll give him a chance. Personally, I think he's done well, but if there are others available such as Reed, Arter and Reid (formation supporting), I'd choose them. For what little time Onomah has had, a good performance vs Brentford is good progression all things considered. I thought more would appreciate that considering he is a young English midfielder that is getting a run at things.
I think so, lets hope he continues to progress as he gets more game time. Just watched the highlights of Leeds v Cardiff - I think we'll be seeing a few goals at both ends on Saturday.
He's repayed the manager's faith in him, and will be a useful squad player - has a great attitude, and is improving all the time.
Well done.
Quote from: Matt10 on December 15, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
He's not outstanding, but he got the job done. You can tell he's still building confidence as he's passing the ball backwards when he can turn, etc. His goal is to keep the ball moving and maintain possession. Fulham supporters will either have their mind made up regardless, or they'll give him a chance. Personally, I think he's done well, but if there are others available such as Reed, Arter and Reid (formation supporting), I'd choose them. For what little time Onomah has had, a good performance vs Brentford is good progression all things considered. I thought more would appreciate that considering he is a young English midfielder that is getting a run at things.
The difficulty is trying to stop the rolling wheel of critiscm as it speeds up after each game. Progress indeed, a work in progress by all accounts, and a part of the rebuild but too many people want the Prem now. I would suggest any sort of confidence to help nurture this work in progress will be hard to come by with the current defence and a lack of leadership on the pitch.
In saying all that though I liked the way Harrison Reed was settling in. A telling Championship midfield spine perhaps................... for next season.
Yes he was better yesterday and despite my misgivings about him, I found myself saying "well done Josh, that's more like it" a couple of times.
At the same time, I still have 3 main criticisms of his play:
1. He doesn't look for space and therefore make himself available to receive the ball
2. He saunters around and is regularly late to try to pick up his man
3. He invariably comes second in 50:50 challenges
Not trying to be unkind but just calling it as I've seen it. He has qualities but, given the above current weaknesses, we cannot afford to start him, at least until we have a ball-winner back in the side to gain/retain possession in midfield. So, for me, Reed or Arter ahead of Onomah and if he improves he must be back up for Cairney or Johannsen.
Meantime, as last 2 games, we will struggle and slip further.
No from me.
Either play Cairney alongside Johansen and Reid in no.10 position in 4-2-3-1 or Kamara up front in 4-4-2 with Johansen and Cairney as CM's
Arter we saw in his first game for me.
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
Quote from: bobby01 on December 15, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
Agree.
Still think he only offers another body in midfield and an (often awry) six yard sideways pass.
Quote from: bobby01 on December 15, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with those who want to judge players. You judge the 1%, i.e. the goals we concede or score, occurrences instead of judging the other 99% of the match the player takes part in.
If we were to judge every player based on what they're doing when we concede or score goals, we'd be a fickle bunch.
Just give credit where it's due. He improved based on how he was originally. The 90 minutes of all the matches are on the site, and it doesn't take long to see where he's improved and what he still needs to improve upon.
Hes steadily improved in the last games. Yesterday he played alongside Stef J in the deeper role with TC further forward . Although he was more comfortable in this role , TC looked a different player further forward and was poor.
In answer to the op, i would drop him because he is not good enough.
Midfield of tom stef and bobby reid will decimate leeds
Onomah will be a spectator.
I saw the brentford game, onomah was at best ordinary and carries no threat, often out of position and the wrong side of his man, not my idea of a good game. Drop him, three starts, three defeats, if he starts v leeds it will be four on the spin. We can not have passengers against a team like them.
Nice summary ALG. Have to agree with your conclusion.
Matt O'Riley is twice the player. Shows what Parker knows
Time we saw Arter and Reed in contention for a midfield place.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 15, 2019, 09:36:00 PM
Matt O'Riley is twice the player. Shows what Parker knows
Based on what?
I'm not saying Josh is starting 11 material yet...Matt has had time to break through...and hasn't. Perhaps you could point to a specific game?
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Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 15, 2019, 10:39:11 PM
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 15, 2019, 09:36:00 PM
Matt O'Riley is twice the player. Shows what Parker knows
Based on what?
I'm not saying Josh is starting 11 material yet...Matt has had time to break through...and hasn't. Perhaps you could point to a specific game?
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I would love to agree but the cup performance from O'Riley though ok...ish...and against a good side, did not make me think that he should be starting games for us. I hope we get to see more of him, but maybe a loan spell somewhere may be the best solution.
Slightly off topic but could Seri play in front of Cairney and Johansen in he returns in January...
Quote from: mlangstrom on December 16, 2019, 01:57:38 PM
Slightly off topic but could Seri play in front of Cairney and Johansen in he returns in January...
Not sure if Seri would offer any support for Mitro. Would still prefer Bobby. Much more dynamic with a real goal threat.
Quote from: Matt10 on December 15, 2019, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on December 15, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with those who want to judge players. You judge the 1%, i.e. the goals we concede or score, occurrences instead of judging the other 99% of the match the player takes part in.
If we were to judge every player based on what they're doing when we concede or score goals, we'd be a fickle bunch.
Just give credit where it's due. He improved based on how he was originally. The 90 minutes of all the matches are on the site, and it doesn't take long to see where he's improved and what he still needs to improve upon.
Thats a major bugbear of mine too. A fault for a goal is always spoken about and regurgitated over and over again, when it is irrelevent (unless it's a very common thing of course) You have to look at the whole performance, not just what randomly preceded a goal.
Quote from: Matt10 on December 15, 2019, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on December 15, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with those who want to judge players. You judge the 1%, i.e. the goals we concede or score, occurrences instead of judging the other 99% of the match the player takes part in.
If we were to judge every player based on what they're doing when we concede or score goals, we'd be a fickle bunch.
Just give credit where it's due. He improved based on how he was originally. The 90 minutes of all the matches are on the site, and it doesn't take long to see where he's improved and what he still needs to improve upon.
No, this is a perfect example of the I am always right matt10. I was making a point in a particular situation, the topic was Onomah and his improvement. There were so many players that should be criticised for Saturday, I have spoken many times on my perceived weakness of Mawson.
I have pointed out one situation that I thought highlights the player, if I went through all the 90 minutes it would be pointless and boring, I preferred to use a situation to highlight a point.
He may have improved from what he was, but he is way short of what we need in a midfielder, I think de la Torre, and oreilly would bring more to the table.
But as I said it is a matter of opinion, like many I post. I don't say I am infallible and am always right by I always give an honest opinion from what I see.
Quote from: Seano on December 16, 2019, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on December 15, 2019, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on December 15, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with those who want to judge players. You judge the 1%, i.e. the goals we concede or score, occurrences instead of judging the other 99% of the match the player takes part in.
If we were to judge every player based on what they're doing when we concede or score goals, we'd be a fickle bunch.
Just give credit where it's due. He improved based on how he was originally. The 90 minutes of all the matches are on the site, and it doesn't take long to see where he's improved and what he still needs to improve upon.
Thats a major bugbear of mine too. A fault for a goal is always spoken about and regurgitated over and over again, when it is irrelevent (unless it's a very common thing of course) You have to look at the whole performance, not just what randomly preceded a goal.
The fault for the goal was Mawson primarily, and then the rest of the back line being all over the place. I perhaps not clearly enough was saying he was around the situation, dithering watching not knowing what to do. That situation in my opinion is evident from him all over the pitch.
But hey ho.
Matt - "otherwise we'd be a fickle bunch" :005: :005: :005:
Quote from: bobby01 on December 16, 2019, 07:38:39 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on December 15, 2019, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on December 15, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
For those of you who see such improvement in him, please just look at the build up to the first goal. You have to forget about Mawson playing like my 90 year old mum. Josh was there kind of ambling around not knowing what to do watching things going on all around him. I don't think he was the worst yesterday but I saw little improvement in him, he just looked better because everyone else were diabolically bad.
All a matter of opinions I guess.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with those who want to judge players. You judge the 1%, i.e. the goals we concede or score, occurrences instead of judging the other 99% of the match the player takes part in.
If we were to judge every player based on what they're doing when we concede or score goals, we'd be a fickle bunch.
Just give credit where it's due. He improved based on how he was originally. The 90 minutes of all the matches are on the site, and it doesn't take long to see where he's improved and what he still needs to improve upon.
No, this is a perfect example of the I am always right matt10. I was making a point in a particular situation, the topic was Onomah and his improvement. There were so many players that should be criticised for Saturday, I have spoken many times on my perceived weakness of Mawson.
I have pointed out one situation that I thought highlights the player, if I went through all the 90 minutes it would be pointless and boring, I preferred to use a situation to highlight a point.
He may have improved from what he was, but he is way short of what we need in a midfielder, I think de la Torre, and oreilly would bring more to the table.
But as I said it is a matter of opinion, like many I post. I don't say I am infallible and am always right by I always give an honest opinion from what I see.
There's no need for insults, it's not about being right or wrong - it's just identifying what is happening on the pitch. I like to watch the matches several times, it's a hobby and helps me develop as a coach at the same time.
You highlight one point and thus it becomes an entire perception of the player which removes anything positive from getting into that assessment. That approach, to me, makes no sense. It removes the element of consistency because it's a one-off and reduces the chance to properly assess a player.
I agree, he's not what we need in a midfielder compared to Arter, Reed and even McDonald. However, that's not the reality we are facing. The reality is Parker has played him, and he's went from not looking a good fit, to holding his own, but needs improvement to be deemed a consistent starter.
FWIW, since you brought it up, I would also like to see O'Reilly and DLT. Being American, I root for USMNT players to excel more, so I can't help but hope DLT edges out. However, I am not going write them off if they fall on their faces should we concede a goal while they're on the pitch. If they do it consistently, then maybe some judgement may start to form.
I think this is similar to dembele, he just isnt an attacking midfielder. He shined breaking up play. Id say you have to play him in a deeper role to get the best from him.
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on December 16, 2019, 10:52:23 PM
I think this is similar to dembele, he just isnt an attacking midfielder. He shined breaking up play. Id say you have to play him in a deeper role to get the best from him.
Once everyone is fit, Onamah needs to go back to PL2 and find his best position.
Quote from: SP on December 15, 2019, 03:41:52 PM
I think so, lets hope he continues to progress as he gets more game time. Just watched the highlights of Leeds v Cardiff - I think we'll be seeing a few goals at both ends on Saturday.
I think that was a fluke though? Leeds had had conceded something like 2 in their last 7 before that and had the best defence in the league?
Leeds are like brentford in a way, only better (from what I've seen this year). Looking down their teamsheet, they don't have amazing players, but they are exceptionally well coached. Meanwhile we can't defend and god forbid what happens if Mitro gets injured. Fearful of this one.
