Despite any issues with how we percieve Brentford (and I for one see them in the same light as any other team with no animosity) they have done brilliantly. they have a plan as to how they go about things and they have brought it all together this season. They are to be admired.
what I was wondering is would TK have identified Benrahma and watkins as targets?
I suspect they would have been right off his radar. I suspect vardy would have passed him by too. I do not think we would have got Finan or houghton or Ivor or mitchell based on the TK model.
It is a great pity as there must be other gems we are missing out on.
And if anyone is thinking this is just another dig at the very nice man that is DoF, the fact remains he is effectively an amateur. This morning looking again at the laegue table I couldn't help but think what could have been if we had a proper balanced squad. as it is parker is forced to play exceptionally dull football to try and grind out results. watching brentford yesterday was a breath of fresh air, doing it on smaller budget but having proper people in place. we just have to aspire to be way better.
The play offs is not success for us.
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
092.gif
If I remeber correctly tony book was 23 when he joined man city and they went on to be the champoions with him as captain.
there are loads of players in lower leagues or discarded too soon wiaiting for a second chance. it just takes a little imagination.
I believe brentford try to pick up ex prem accademy players that have been discarded. I am not sure how true that is but it certainly a good idea.
Living down here in Devon I heard loads about Watkins when he was at Exeter, spoke to an Exeter fan in my local just after he went to Brentford and he was surprised that a bigger club didn't take a chance, he said Fulham should have signed him, 😂hindsight ehhh.
On a lighter note before lockdown Ollie Watkins was often seen out and about in Torquay, my son is on talking terms with him, they have had a £100 charity bet for top scorer, neck and neck at the moment.
CCOME ON MITRO⚽️⚽️⚽️
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.
Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.
Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.
except we did not get either of these.
benrahma is a brilliant footballer unlike the ones we got and watkins was signed by a smaller club and not a bigger one so I suspect was not on our radar.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.
Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.
except we did not get either of these.
benrahma is a brilliant footballer unlike the ones we got and watkins was signed by a smaller club and not a bigger one so I suspect was not on our radar.
Ayite was as good as Benrahma, and I've no reason to believe Benrahma is any better than Kamara. So I think Ayite and Kamara are very comparable signings, for similar fees.
I'm not sure what you're saying about Watkins. As I say, he'd have been on everyone's radar, even computer game managers sitting at home in their armchairs/bedrooms. We've plainly chosen not to recruit from the English lower leagues, and I agree that decision is questionable, but it's not as if Brentford 'found' Watkins because they've a better scouting system than us, or anyone else for that matter.
It's worth keeping in mind that it's not as straight forward as that and teams with far more resources are unable to 'unearth these gems'. Think of Man Utd for example, wasted huge HUGE sums of money in the last five or so years, enormous scouting network and so on, and they haven't managed it. Therir only bright lights are academy players or stars brought in at huge sums (even then they've not always performed...).
Vardy and Leicester are a good example actually. Clubs far bigger and richer than us would love to unearth 'the next Vardy' or a 'Kante' (every club in the world would love a Kante at 4m or whatever they paid) or 'a Mahrez'. It doesn't always work out. Cisse and AK could have been those players and Mahrez and Kante flopped in another world. There are a lot of variables involved otherwise clubs like Utd would scoop all of these gems up. The fact they don't suggests there is a lot of intangible factors involved too.
I think we do have an eye on that market, previously a little too much maybe (lots of cheap French or Spanish league players coming in and not fitting in the past). The lower English leagues not so much but how often does it work out? Vardy and Ian Wright - I'm sure there's others but it's really not a long list. So clearly more often than not it doesn't quite work out and they make a massive step up.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
If I remeber correctly tony book was 23 when he joined man city and they went on to be the champoions with him as captain.
there are loads of players in lower leagues or discarded too soon wiaiting for a second chance. it just takes a little imagination.
I believe brentford try to pick up ex prem accademy players that have been discarded. I am not sure how true that is but it certainly a good idea.
I think you will find he was 32!
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:15:37 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.
Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.
except we did not get either of these.
benrahma is a brilliant footballer unlike the ones we got and watkins was signed by a smaller club and not a bigger one so I suspect was not on our radar.
Ayite was as good as Benrahma, and I've no reason to believe Benrahma is any better than Kamara. So I think Ayite and Kamara are very comparable signings, for similar fees.
I'm not sure what you're saying about Watkins. As I say, he'd have been on everyone's radar, even computer game managers sitting at home in their armchairs/bedrooms. We've plainly chosen not to recruit from the English lower leagues, and I agree that decision is questionable, but it's not as if Brentford 'found' Watkins because they've a better scouting system than us, or anyone else for that matter.
I understand your point completely. However i was not an ayite fan at all, lovely bloke but not my idea and when it came to it slav left him ouut of the biggest games. AK is a mixed bag and for the time he has been with us largely has been very un impressive although I do feel this season he has finally come good. benrahma is a far more consistent and better class performer IMO and I could not see brentford putting him on the bench at any tme soon, ayite and AK are and were never consistent.
watkins, may have been known but was never going to come to fulham because TK probably didn't know about him but even if he did, he was not signing such a player. we all know that. Pound gofor pound there squad is much better assmebled and looks better balanced.
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
If I remeber correctly tony book was 23 when he joined man city and they went on to be the champoions with him as captain.
there are loads of players in lower leagues or discarded too soon wiaiting for a second chance. it just takes a little imagination.
I believe brentford try to pick up ex prem accademy players that have been discarded. I am not sure how true that is but it certainly a good idea.
I think you will find he was 32!
I could say that was a bit of dyslexia to protect my reputation but in fact I think it was age letting me down!!! Yes of course he was in his thirties making it even more extraordinary. you just do not see that sort of imagination in modern football, let alone our club.
Quote from: ByTheRiver on July 12, 2020, 11:17:02 AM
It's worth keeping in mind that it's not as straight forward as that and teams with far more resources are unable to 'unearth these gems'. Think of Man Utd for example, wasted huge HUGE sums of money in the last five or so years, enormous scouting network and so on, and they haven't managed it. Therir only bright lights are academy players or stars brought in at huge sums (even then they've not always performed...).
Vardy and Leicester are a good example actually. Clubs far bigger and richer than us would love to unearth 'the next Vardy' or a 'Kante' (every club in the world would love a Kante at 4m or whatever they paid) or 'a Mahrez'. It doesn't always work out. Cisse and AK could have been those players and Mahrez and Kante flopped in another world. There are a lot of variables involved otherwise clubs like Utd would scoop all of these gems up. The fact they don't suggests there is a lot of intangible factors involved too.
I think we do have an eye on that market, previously a little too much maybe (lots of cheap French or Spanish league players coming in and not fitting in the past). The lower English leagues not so much but how often does it work out? Vardy and Ian Wright - I'm sure there's others but it's really not a long list. So clearly more often than not it doesn't quite work out and they make a massive step up.
I agree it isn't quite a straightforward as that. BUT, we do not seem to even try. keegan picked up unusual players needing a chance or second chance. tigana also got players that in some cases had been written off, saha for instance was pulling up any daisies at metz but he recognised him as a top potential.
to be fair i probably would not have gone for coleman because of his achiles injury that hamppered him at blackburn. however that worked well because we had top people in those days that knew what they were doing.
I am just very despondant because I think with a little more inspired recruitment policy we would could have been flying in any of the last few seasons, and this one and I know where our real problem is .
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 12:34:06 PM
when it came to it slav left [Ayite] ouut of the biggest games
He was injury prone but he was in Jokanovic's best XI when fit.
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?
Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons
Brentford are in the form and on the type of run that we had under Slav and will be very hard to stop
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?
Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons
Where would I see that? Be interested to see them in comparison actually.
I think Benrahma is a significantly better player than Ayite (who I really rate btw) and will play a much higher standard than him.
Sorry alg, no way can I agree with "Parker is forced to play dull football and grind out results with this squad."
I just had a look at whoscored.com and I appreciate the mins on the pitch might paint a different picture, Ayite has never had a season as good as Benrahmas overall when you look at total involvement in goals, assists and key passes. He did have less game time but still. There has to be a point where a player with a good goal to game ratio can't be compared to a guy who has a lower ratio but still scored 3 times as many goals as him. (or more)
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?
Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons
Where would I see that? Be interested to see them in comparison actually.
I think Benrahma is a significantly better player than Ayite (who I really rate btw) and will play a much higher standard than him.
Benrahma this season - 16 goals, 9 assists from 3,277 minutes, 36 starts
Ayite 16/17 - 9 goals, 9 assists from 1,978 minutes, 22 starts
Transfermarkt
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?
Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons
Where would I see that? Be interested to see them in comparison actually.
I think Benrahma is a significantly better player than Ayite (who I really rate btw) and will play a much higher standard than him.
Benrahma this season - 16 goals, 9 assists from 3,277 minutes, 36 starts
Ayite 16/17 - 9 goals, 9 assists from 1,978 minutes, 22 starts
Transfermarkt
Interesting, on whoscored it's similar but Ayite has 7 assists to Benrahmas 8 and 9 goals against Benrahmas 17.
It also shows Benrahma has had 10 MoTM appearances in that time to Ayites 2.
Having watched both quite a bit now, I just see Benrahma as a much better player to be honest.
just read the OP not read any replies yet . i agree with all said . i know its easy to blame TK for the signings, and to a large degree he must shoulder the blame . despite the few past signings we made - many years back- we seem over the last 20 years to have been making the same mistake not seemingly able to find those kind of talents. weve let Charlie Goode go as an 18 year old hes playing lower division football and doing well at northampton, who knows with better coaching he may have been ok for us , so theres a bit of blame to ba taken by our scouts as well.
It's the missed opportunity to sign Pontus Jannson that has hurt us. Brentford's attackers play with the confidence of knowing they concede very few. He is clearly exceptional at Championship level and fell out with Bielsa for the cardinal sin of - get this - trying to stop Aston Villa scoring. It's bonkers we didn't outbid Brentford.
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
092.gif
Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.
Quote from: Carborundum on July 12, 2020, 01:55:34 PM
It's the missed opportunity to sign Pontus Jannson that has hurt us. Brentford's attackers play with the confidence of knowing they concede very few. He is clearly exceptional at Championship level and fell out with Bielsa for the cardinal sin of - get this - trying to stop Aston Villa scoring. It's bonkers we didn't outbid Brentford.
That certainly was a strange one, I never understood why he chose the Bees, I'm sure he must've had numerous other offers from far bigger clubs?
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?
Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons
Where would I see that? Be interested to see them in comparison actually.
I think Benrahma is a significantly better player than Ayite (who I really rate btw) and will play a much higher standard than him.
i totally agree they are chalk and cheese. ayite was a good bloke but a bit hoit and miss and was not my idea of a top player. benrahma is looking a thourghbred. nobody in the media ever spoke of ayite as being a top top player who would move on for a big fee. Ben is the opposite with a many clubs interested if brentford do not go up.
Quote from: bobby01 on July 12, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
Sorry alg, no way can I agree with "Parker is forced to play dull football and grind out results with this squad."
and how would you describe the last four games? a thrill packed roller coaster of a team creating chances for fun. or more realistically a workman like side that occasionally gets in the box. we knock it aout in a very pointless manner, it is dull. slavs team stretched defences then sprang the trap.. we play left to right this season and then pass back to the keeper...hardly thrilling in terms of the football.
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
092.gif
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on July 12, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
Sorry alg, no way can I agree with "Parker is forced to play dull football and grind out results with this squad."
and how would you describe the last four games? a thrill packed roller coaster of a team creating chances for fun. or more realistically a workman like side that occasionally gets in the box. we knock it aout in a very pointless manner, it is dull. slavs team stretched defences then sprang the trap.. we play left to right this season and then pass back to the keeper...hardly thrilling in terms of the football.
I would put that on Parker more rather than thinking that players who were tearing up the division as recently as two seasons ago suddenly becoming bad players.
I don't think Parker would have the Brentford players performing like they are now.
Currently featuring in Brentford's Premiership bound side are players from Spain, Denmark, France, Algeria. Fulham have no players from any of those nations currently in the first team and I doubt we have any decent scouts even covering these leagues. At Brentford Manager Frank is a younger version of Roy with a meticulous and schoolmasterly dedication to unearthing the talent to fit Brentford's ethos. The Dane brings incisive knowledge of the European scene plus excellent coaching skills while the board sensibly trust and support his judgements. It's light years away from our own set up. When those in charge feel a permanent long term deal on big money for Anthony Knockheart represents good business then you realise the size of the problem at Fulham.
Quote from: fulhamphil on July 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Currently featuring in Brentford's Premiership bound side are players from Spain, Denmark, France, Algeria. Fulham have no players from any of those nations currently ...
Anthony Knockheart represents good business then you realise the size of the problem at Fulham.
Mate, where do you think Knockaert is from? And if it is that they have to be signed directly from France, we have Le Marchand and Kamara.
Quote from: Tabby on July 12, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: fulhamphil on July 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Currently featuring in Brentford's Premiership bound side are players from Spain, Denmark, France, Algeria. Fulham have no players from any of those nations currently ...
Anthony Knockheart represents good business then you realise the size of the problem at Fulham.
Mate, where do you think Knockaert is from? And if it is that they have to be signed directly from France, we have Le Marchand and Kamara.
Kebano was born in France as well.
Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
092.gif
Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.
That makes it 1000000000 time worse!!! :031: :031:
It's not all bad news, we've scouted two or three youngsters lately; one from PSG, one from Scotland, another from where? Exeter where Ollie Watkins is from. My beef is getting anything back for efforts - i.e. Liverpool
Quote from: Tabby on July 12, 2020, 03:21:24 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on July 12, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
Sorry alg, no way can I agree with "Parker is forced to play dull football and grind out results with this squad."
and how would you describe the last four games? a thrill packed roller coaster of a team creating chances for fun. or more realistically a workman like side that occasionally gets in the box. we knock it aout in a very pointless manner, it is dull. slavs team stretched defences then sprang the trap.. we play left to right this season and then pass back to the keeper...hardly thrilling in terms of the football.
I would put that on Parker more rather than thinking that players who were tearing up the division as recently as two seasons ago suddenly becoming bad players.
I don't think Parker would have the Brentford players performing like they are now.
It is some and some for me.. they have a better balance in their squad.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on July 12, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
Sorry alg, no way can I agree with "Parker is forced to play dull football and grind out results with this squad."
and how would you describe the last four games? a thrill packed roller coaster of a team creating chances for fun. or more realistically a workman like side that occasionally gets in the box. we knock it aout in a very pointless manner, it is dull. slavs team stretched defences then sprang the trap.. we play left to right this season and then pass back to the keeper...hardly thrilling in terms of the football.
every time i see this sort of reply mentioning slav i along with you and i hope many other think the club lacked patience. He didnt suddenly become a poor manager he had players trust upon him with no prem experience . but hey ho that goes for most clubs now . no patience . wycombe wanderers classic example of patience.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on July 12, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Tabby on July 12, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: fulhamphil on July 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Currently featuring in Brentford's Premiership bound side are players from Spain, Denmark, France, Algeria. Fulham have no players from any of those nations currently ...
Anthony Knockheart represents good business then you realise the size of the problem at Fulham.
Mate, where do you think Knockaert is from? And if it is that they have to be signed directly from France, we have Le Marchand and Kamara.
Kebano was born in France as well.
Yep. IMO there's a legitimate discussion to be had about why we don't bother looking at Watkins-types in the English lower leagues, but you can't criticise us for a lack of scouting in the French, Belgian and other obscure European leagues. If anything, our problem has been too much recruitment from those areas because they're always a gamble.
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 07:52:57 PM
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on July 12, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Tabby on July 12, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: fulhamphil on July 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Currently featuring in Brentford's Premiership bound side are players from Spain, Denmark, France, Algeria. Fulham have no players from any of those nations currently ...
Anthony Knockheart represents good business then you realise the size of the problem at Fulham.
Mate, where do you think Knockaert is from? And if it is that they have to be signed directly from France, we have Le Marchand and Kamara.
Kebano was born in France as well.
Yep. IMO there's a legitimate discussion to be had about why we don't bother looking at Watkins-types in the English lower leagues, but you can't criticise us for a lack of scouting in the French, Belgian and other obscure European leagues. If anything, our problem has been too much recruitment from those areas because they're always a gamble.
Brentford fill their squad with players from lower leagues partly, because they don't have youth development. We are hoping to bring through juniors at our own club that either play for us or we get big money to finance buying too players. If we only get a million for Harvey Elliott expect TK to change the model from junior-development to young-adult development.
As for rectruitment from France, I actually think we haven't so much recrtuited too much from France but haven't given players a run in the team long enough to find their feet (Seri and Anguissa) and the few players that have been given an extended run like Atyie have got injuried.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 13, 2020, 03:12:06 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 07:52:57 PM
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on July 12, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Tabby on July 12, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: fulhamphil on July 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Currently featuring in Brentford's Premiership bound side are players from Spain, Denmark, France, Algeria. Fulham have no players from any of those nations currently ...
Anthony Knockheart represents good business then you realise the size of the problem at Fulham.
Mate, where do you think Knockaert is from? And if it is that they have to be signed directly from France, we have Le Marchand and Kamara.
Kebano was born in France as well.
Yep. IMO there's a legitimate discussion to be had about why we don't bother looking at Watkins-types in the English lower leagues, but you can't criticise us for a lack of scouting in the French, Belgian and other obscure European leagues. If anything, our problem has been too much recruitment from those areas because they're always a gamble.
Brentford fill their squad with players from lower leagues partly, because they don't have youth development. We are hoping to bring through juniors at our own club that either play for us or we get big money to finance buying too players. If we only get a million for Harvey Elliott expect TK to change the model from junior-development to young-adult development.
As for rectruitment from France, I actually think we haven't so much recrtuited too much from France but haven't given players a run in the team long enough to find their feet (Seri and Anguissa) and the few players that have been given an extended run like Atyie have got injuried.
Are you going to just ignore the Sessegnon brothers, Rodak and Bettinelli (to name a few) in your posts? I tried to bring this up in another thread were you tried to point to the uselessness of the academy (based on the pretend figure of 1 million) while ignoring everyone but Elliott. It becomes a meaningless discussion if we just cherry pick one example and ignores the rest.
This thread shows how people twist the facts to support their view and is interesting if only to observe that.
It's ok to compare us to Brentford, but you have to also admit, they have done things that nobody else has, they have found a way to buy excellent players at low prices and sell previous assets for huge profit. Well done to them, I expect their success is due to a mixture of good process, judgement and luck. Brentford are the team of the moment, how long however will that last ? Maybe a few years, let's wait and see.
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun. This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.
The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy. They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well. Why do they spend as they do? I would suggest there are 2 main reasons. 1) They can afford it. 2) They are in it for the long term. Football is full of successful clubs that buy success, it's proven. You know who they are and most recently Chelsea, Man City are the most high profile examples. Man United will always be one of the best clubs, why ? Answer is because they are the richest.
I would much prefer a club who invest for the long term, Brentford are doing brilliantly well, they can have their moment in the sun and good luck to them, many many clubs are struggling, nobody compares Fulham with Charlton or Sunderland etc etc but there are far more of them than the Brentford's of this world.
Fulham could have signed Jamie Vardy, that's in the Martin Jol era, the transfer fee would have been £1m. There are others. Some of are signings are bizarre, like recently we've been short up front. We sign a lot of midfielders who we hope will fill the gap up front if needed. We've got more Swiss Army Knives then a shop selling Swiss Army Knives.
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun. This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.
The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy. They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well. Why do they spend as they do? I would suggest there are 2 main reasons. 1) They can afford it. 2) They are in it for the long term.
Not sure who criticised MAF's strategy, or how anyone could, because he built long-term infrastructure as well as a fantastic team. Our academy is essentially his creation and legacy.
Quote from: Statto on July 13, 2020, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun. This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.
The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy. They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well. Why do they spend as they do? I would suggest there are 2 main reasons. 1) They can afford it. 2) They are in it for the long term.
Not sure who criticised MAF's strategy, or how anyone could, because he built long-term infrastructure as well as a fantastic team. Our academy is essentially his creation and legacy.
One guy I stood next too on the Hammersmith Terrace refused to attend games after we signed Pesch as he said he did not want to attend due to too much money being spent. I always thought it was a very odd response and agree this was not what most Fulham fans thought, however most forums like this are not representative of the average fan, more of people who have time and want to chew the fat ! My point was not to criticise Mo, more to remind people that he bought success, we only got to the Premier League because we out spent more than everyone else, oh and Tigana was an amazing coach but would he or Keegan have gone to a club of our size if we did not have lots of money...
Really rate them, great style of play. Both of the players you mentioned look brilliant. I'd like to see us bring in some young talent, we've signed a lot late twenties players recently.
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 13, 2020, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun. This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.
The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy. They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well. Why do they spend as they do? I would suggest there are 2 main reasons. 1) They can afford it. 2) They are in it for the long term.
Not sure who criticised MAF's strategy, or how anyone could, because he built long-term infrastructure as well as a fantastic team. Our academy is essentially his creation and legacy.
One guy I stood next too on the Hammersmith Terrace refused to attend games after we signed Pesch as he said he did not want to attend due to too much money being spent. I always thought it was a very odd response and agree this was not what most Fulham fans thought, however most forums like this are not representative of the average fan, more of people who have time and want to chew the fat ! My point was not to criticise Mo, more to remind people that he bought success, we only got to the Premier League because we out spent more than everyone else, oh and Tigana was an amazing coach but would he or Keegan have gone to a club of our size if we did not have lots of money...
As a fan, the MAF era was great he spent such an insane amount of money relative to revenue, but it terms of spending money on players wisely, if you actually look through the results getting 26 points in 2019/20 with a 14.6% financial loss is probably better than getting 44 points in 2001/02 with 103% loss.
For those that think TK spent poorly compared to MAF, I completely disagree with you and believe it is a media beat up. The media wants to tell a message that money doesn't buy results and ex-footballers want to tell a message only ex-footballers can be good DOFs. Both stories are lies.
May I remind you that Anguissa costs 8.2% of our revenue and MAF spent an additional 89% of revenue on players (according to the P&Ls) that's 10x Anguissas in addition to all the players we had last season for only 18 more points.
I believe that if Tony Khan wasn't limited by FFP, I believe he would have bought all the players we did plus at the start of the season also bought Moses, Hector, Cahill, Targett, Drinkwater, Norwood, Knockaert, Reid, Babel, and Gayle, resulting in about a 100% financial loss (i.e. < than MAF).
I believe a lineup of Rico; Moses, Hector, Cahill, Targett; Drinkwater, Anguissa, Cairney; Knockaert, Mitro, Babel with a bench of Betts, Fabri, TFM, Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Ream, MLM, Bryan, KMac, Chambers, Seri, Vietto, Kamara, Sessegnon, Schullre, Gayle would have got more than 44 points and it would have cost less than the Tigana squad.
Tony Khan is getting the best financial results of all our DOF in recent history but limited with FFP he is not good enough to get up the table quickly and is hanging around yo-yo land. But Tigana wasn't getting great results for the amount of money spent either, I believe Tigance was worse than TK.
The problem is all others teams we are competing against are also spending more than they earn too, we are spending at little more than some, while they are spending it a little better than us. Out History is that, since Malcolm McDonald, we haven't spent anywhere near as good as teams like Brentford.
Tony Khan is currently an average DOF, that will keep us between 18th and 28th best team in the UK at "current maximum FFP spending" unless he spends more effectively, but I believe TK is and will continue to improve slowly. If we get promoted and TK spends another £110m of his inheritance, I think TK will spend it well enough for us to stay up in the EPL at 17th position. Excellent Result.
We had Watkins watched several times & were supposed to be lining up a bid. Not sure what happened there?
If we had stayed up Benrahma was a target too, know this as bloke I know is close to one our scouts
Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
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Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.
Hayes were our local non league club. My grandad was told about Regis. He went to watch him & he was brilliant, he knew people at Fulham & through them got a scout to go & watch Regis
They went & watched the game together, it was a midweek match & Regis had a quiet game. The guy who went called my grandad a few days later & said thanks for the recommendation but we've got better in our reserves??
A few months later Regis was ripping up the first Division with WBA
My grandad did the same with Francis Joseph at Hillingdon Borough. Fulham didn't rate him & a few years later he was banging them in for Wimbledon & Brentford & was linked to top flight clubs prior to his horrific leg break after which he was never the same player
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on July 14, 2020, 05:28:46 AM
Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.
Hayes were our local non league club. My grandad was told about Regis. He went to watch him & he was brilliant, he knew people at Fulham & through them got a scout to go & watch Regis
They went & watched the game together, it was a midweek match & Regis had a quiet game. The guy who went called my grandad a few days later & said thanks for the recommendation but we've got better in our reserves??
A few months later Regis was ripping up the first Division with WBA
My grandad did the same with Francis Joseph at Hillingdon Borough. Fulham didn't rate him & a few years later he was banging them in for Wimbledon & Brentford & was linked to top flight clubs prior to his horrific leg break after which he was never the same player
I remember seeing Ray Houghton's first game at the cottage. Just before the game, a fan near me, labeled him as 20-year old that West Ham gave as on a free-transfer to get his near nothing paycheck off the books. After about 20 minutes of playing, the same fan reminded me that he knew West Ham were letting a star go.
Scouting must be hard, I had no idea Harrison Reed would play this well since lockdown, all I remember is him have a pretty crap partnership with James Maddison at Norwich (who is an awesome player) and then he played ok for us but never really having a good partnership with anyone at Fulham and being part of not great team performances dropping points.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 14, 2020, 06:34:46 AM
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on July 14, 2020, 05:28:46 AM
Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.
It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA. Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.
Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.
Hayes were our local non league club. My grandad was told about Regis. He went to watch him & he was brilliant, he knew people at Fulham & through them got a scout to go & watch Regis
They went & watched the game together, it was a midweek match & Regis had a quiet game. The guy who went called my grandad a few days later & said thanks for the recommendation but we've got better in our reserves??
A few months later Regis was ripping up the first Division with WBA
My grandad did the same with Francis Joseph at Hillingdon Borough. Fulham didn't rate him & a few years later he was banging them in for Wimbledon & Brentford & was linked to top flight clubs prior to his horrific leg break after which he was never the same player
I remember seeing Ray Houghton's first game at the cottage. Just before the game, a fan near me, labeled him as 20-year old that West Ham gave as on a free-transfer to get his near nothing paycheck off the books. After about 20 minutes of playing, the same fan reminded me that he knew West Ham were letting a star go.
Scouting must be hard, I had no idea Harrison Reed would play this well since lockdown, all I remember is him have a pretty crap partnership with James Maddison at Norwich (who is an awesome player) and then he played ok for us but never really having a good partnership with anyone at Fulham and being part of not great team performances dropping points.
He had a few injuries early in the season, maybe he came back too soon. The 'lockdown' break has helped him recover fully. The drinks breaks must be helping the players too.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 14, 2020, 04:30:34 AM
As a fan, the MAF era was great he spent such an insane amount of money relative to revenue, but it terms of spending money on players wisely, if you actually look through the results getting 26 points in 2019/20 with a 14.6% financial loss is probably better than getting 44 points in 2001/02 with 103% loss.
For those that think TK spent poorly compared to MAF, I completely disagree with you and believe it is a media beat up. The media wants to tell a message that money doesn't buy results and ex-footballers want to tell a message only ex-footballers can be good DOFs. Both stories are lies.
May I remind you that Anguissa costs 8.2% of our revenue and MAF spent an additional 89% of revenue on players (according to the P&Ls) that's 10x Anguissas in addition to all the players we had last season for only 18 more points.
Really not sure you can just use the accounts like that a determine a relative spend and do a comparison. There are all sorts of other factors to take into account, which I won't go into because this is already going off on a tangent from the OP.
A much better metric IMO would be other clubs' spending at the time. Five minutes on Google tells me PL clubs spent £323m in 01/02, and we spent £34m, meaning the other 19 clubs spent on average about £15m each.
In 18/19, PL clubs spent £1,257m, and we spent £105m, meaning the other PL clubs spent on average about £61m each.
If you scale up our spending in 01/02 to reflect the increase in other clubs' spending from that season to 19/20, that says in 01/02 we sent the equivalent of approx £138m.
So the comparison should be
01/02 - £138m spent, 44 points
18/19 - £105m spent, 26 points
