I am reading all this "gutless" "not fit to wear the shirt" diatribe.
losing is sometimes about effort. No question. But You could see the team were giving everything.
Sadly for Hector & Ream, they had a thankless task. They are subs on the premiership but are a long way from the first team. Poor old Hec clearly needs games to gain confidence, with the pitch he was absolutely all over the place first half. You can't play a team like burnley and be so off your game. They won't give your back 2/3 any time and it just didn't allow us any time to get a grip in the match.
Tosin, Zambo, Bryan, BDR, Lemina & Onamah were there to get sharpness for Wednesday. I don't think any of the others will get anywhere near the pitch on Wednesday. I include Mitro.
Burnley's mix of 1st team and reserves is better than ours. In some cases, quite a bit better.
I like to think I've got a fairly level-headed view of the ability of our players. I don't think any are "crap", I don't think any deserve to be vilified and I believe they gave everything today. It just wouldn't work.
Ream will know his days are numbered. Hector probably realises his future is in the championship. Odoi is probably going to leave or stay depending if we go down. Kamara is championship or maybe Lique 1(and defintley not at the top in either) and Mitro. I read this stuff about Mitro that he doesn't care or is unfit. I think he looks like he's always looked. He has never defended from the front, playing in a front 3, he is just unable to do it. If he is the focal point and the defence is a bad premiership/mid upper championship, he can bully them. He is one of the best in the business at that. If the defence has his number and won't be bullied, he then looks a bit lost. Guys, we've seen this so many times. It doesn't mean he's not trying.
The one guy I can't call is Joe Bryan. I so want him to make it at the top but I just don't know.
Feel sorry for the guys today but actually it worked out for Wednesday. I imagine Reed will start but he knows Lemina is now back. BDR got minutes, Zambo & RLC got minutes, Joe Bryan got 90 as he will be playing and thankfully the cottage turf has 10 days to recover.
I, for one would have applauded them off
Good post. I hope it works out on Wednesday.
All dependant on a positive result Wednesday.
Good post - I'm sure the players gave their all, just not collectively good enough.
I always applaud a Fulham team off the field.
Too many of them have had insufficient playing time and that includes Rodak who looked terribly nervous.
OK. they all train together but that is so different to having the edge of playing time
Don't really buy all of that. We fielded a team of experienced professional footballers, five of whom will have to play in a big match for us on Wednesday. they should have done better. At least , playing at home we had the right to expect a goal from them.
We need to also take into account that Burnley made 9 changes to their starting XI and we only made 6 yet got absolutely outplayed
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on January 24, 2021, 10:41:02 PM
We need to also take into account that Burnley made 9 changes to their starting XI and we only made 6 yet got absolutely outplayed
What Burnley did was play the conditions while we continued to play our passing game on a pitch that made it difficult. Plus of course our passing game meant passing to Burnley a lot of the time.
Sorry, but we were crap.
Confused personally as to Anguissa's inclusion as he's so important to us and I feel he's looked tired recently.
I would have rested him 100% and I think it's a mistake.
Don't buy that at all. It actually hurts us to get a 3-0 thumping at home to a team struggling like us. A win would have boosted moral.
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on January 24, 2021, 10:41:02 PM
We need to also take into account that Burnley made 9 changes to their starting XI and we only made 6 yet got absolutely outplayed
this is true but I do think that our system relies on individual talent to create whereas they rely more on a system. One thats been set for a quite a while too.
Quote from: Milo on January 24, 2021, 11:17:04 PM
Confused personally as to Anguissa's inclusion as he's so important to us and I feel he's looked tired recently.
I would have rested him 100% and I think it's a mistake.
I agree with you. If the reports are true, he was one of the players who had COVID. His energy has not looked the same since the isolation period.
Stupid OP sorry, too many points to disagree with except the ones that made me laugh were that "the players gave everything", did you actually watch the match? If they gave everything then maybe that says it all, move them on to another club if we can find one! As for applauding them off the field, I think a lot of our fans (had they been there) would have gone home long before the end. Somehow I managed to keep watching the match until the end, 1 of the worst performances I have seen by a Fulham side in many years and please don't forget we played a more or less Burnley B team. Perhaps you think we should field the same 11 again on Wednesday?
Quote from: davew on January 25, 2021, 08:03:15 AM
Stupid OP sorry, too many points to disagree with except the ones that made me laugh were that "the players gave everything", did you actually watch the match? If they gave everything then maybe that says it all, move them on to another club if we can find one! As for applauding them off the field, I think a lot of our fans (had they been there) would have gone home long before the end. Somehow I managed to keep watching the match until the end, 1 of the worst performances I have seen by a Fulham side in many years and please don't forget we played a more or less Burnley B team. Perhaps you think we should field the same 11 again on Wednesday?
I made what I thought was an honest assessment. I read your response and from what I understand you don't agree with is, that they gave everything. So, you think they didn't try? OK. Just think you're wrong. Michael Hector was almost certainly giving everything to prove he can challenge for a spot for the first team. The fact he couldn't put a foot right had nothing to do with effort.
If you want to boo and leave because of that, that's up to you. I personally wouldn't.
Your other response seems to be just saying they aren't any good. Well, is that not pretty much what I said about them realising that and their future is either at other lower leagues or with us, if we go down?
Except, again, I would hold that against them and walk away.
Was it a woeful? absolutely, it was a horrible performance but I am pretty certain that had nothing to do with effort.
As I said, for SP, the game served its purpose as it was pretty much entirely about Wednesday. I see a post above says he doest understand Zambo playing because he has been ill. Well, I guess that was exactly the reason he was played. To get match fitness (for Wednesday)
As for you walking out. From your posts over the years, you must be on a hell of a long protest as I would hazard a guess you haven't been to a live match for ten years. When did you last see us live?
70s Pimlico, I am not on any protest!! You are correct I haven't been to a Fulham game in many years and my memory is not good enough now to remember the last time I went. Since the introduction of modern media and technology I have been able to watch every game that Fulham have played, always live when available to do so or on playback when not available by live viewing e.g. FFC TV. I think you know my background of being the Grandson of a well respected Director of FFC (died in 1968) so I have been priviledged to see hundreds of games over the years, many on a complimentary basis in the Directors Box and subsequently paying to see matches like the majority of fans. I still have the same passion about my Club as I did over 60 years ago, the fact that I no longer attend matches is irrelevant and I do not need to provide you with my reason(s) or circumstances in why I am unable to attend matches. This suggestion that people who do not attend matches are not true fans is rubbish! The thing we do agree with in regard to yesterday is that it was a woeful performance, I am sure I have witnessed many more of these type of performances than you over the years! Let's move on!!
In answer to the OP I think there was a lack of effort from some players. I also reckon the manager thought something similar if his his post match comments are anything to go by.
Obviously he's not going to say that outright but what do you think he meant when he said, "we fell short of the standards we are used to seeing" and "we couldn't deal with the long balls first and foremost". He also mentioned that we didn't win the many of the first and second balls. He also said that when you play a team like Burnley you face a battle and that you have to win that side of the game. These comments could all be related to a team that collectively lacked effort IMO. That's the way I saw the game. Burnley were far more committed than Fulham and the result shows that.
Quote from: davew on January 25, 2021, 08:43:53 AM
70s Pimlico, I am not on any protest!! You are correct I haven't been to a Fulham game in many years and my memory is not good enough now to remember the last time I went. Since the introduction of modern media and technology I have been able to watch every game that Fulham have played, always live when available to do so or on playback when not available by live viewing e.g. FFC TV. I think you know my background of being the Grandson of a well respected Director of FFC (died in 1968) so I have been priviledged to see hundreds of games over the years, many on a complimentary basis in the Directors Box and subsequently paying to see matches like the majority of fans. I still have the same passion about my Club as I did over 60 years ago, the fact that I no longer attend matches is irrelevant and I do not need to provide you with my reason(s) or circumstances in why I am unable to attend matches. This suggestion that people who do not attend matches are not true fans is rubbish! The thing we do agree with in regard to yesterday is that it was a woeful performance, I am sure I have witnessed many more of these type of performances than you over the years! Let's move on!!
Agree, keep it amicable...but you did say you would walk out....so, I took a shot. Probably a cheap one. I certainly wouldn't question the passion for the club on anyone one on here.
Quote from: Whitestone on January 25, 2021, 09:02:52 AM
In answer to the OP I think there was a lack of effort from some players. I also reckon the manager thought something similar if his his post match comments are anything to go by.
Obviously he's not going to say that outright but what do you think he meant when he said, "we fell short of the standards we are used to seeing" and "we couldn't deal with the long balls first and foremost". He also mentioned that we didn't win the many of the first and second balls. He also said that when you play a team like Burnley you face a battle and that you have to win that side of the game. These comments could all be related to a team that collectively lacked effort IMO. That's the way I saw the game. Burnley were far more committed than Fulham and the result shows that.
Honestly, I just think he meant the defence played awfully. They did.
Anyway, lets just hope it all fits together for Wednesday.
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on January 24, 2021, 10:41:02 PM
We need to also take into account that Burnley made 9 changes to their starting XI and we only made 6 yet got absolutely outplayed
We actually made 8 changes from the team that played so well against Man Utd, not 6. They made 9, but Pieters played most of the game v Liverpool so a similar 8 really. We weren't very good but I took it as showing that their second string is better than ours. Which you'd expect when they've been in the Prem for much longer than we have.
It was a nothing game and I am glad we are out. We have more important matters to focus on. Let's hope Burnley and all the other bottom-half teams still left in the Cup have great cup runs with extra time, penalties and (if they exist this year) replays in every round.
I agree with OP apart from one point: I don't think we should have played the first team players. He makes the point about creating sharpness for Wednesday but I can't see that yesterday had any effect other than a negative psychological one for those players. None of them looked a class above the largely second string opposition and the result and performance can only have dented their confidence.
6 points from the next 2 league games is all that matters.
The OP is a perfectly reasonable take on yesterday although I can also see why a rather different perspective may also be perfectly reasonable.
I made an effort to watch the game yesterday but I don't expect any applause for having done so and I received no reward. Effort is something that is required to achieve something even if that something is a miserable performance and so I agree that all the players made an effort but it simply was not to the level we were justified to expect.
Parker stated post-match that he wanted a cup run since the team knew another home fixture awaited them. Clearly he expects us to believe this was his tactical solution to dealing with a Burnley team that would be selected to much the same formula and purpose. There were mitigating circumstances for Parker which arguably included matches coming thick and fast where some are much more significant to his responsibilities than yesterday's game but our opponents could argue the same.
I think we already knew that our pre- Areola, Aina, Andersen, Adarabioyo, Robinson defence let us down in the Championship many times and the usual suspects were on full view against a modest Burnley side. I thought there were signs that this team had not been carefully crafted and schooled (e.g. BDR and Hector taking throws on the right but to no cohesive pattern or effect) suggesting they were under prepared. It was a really poor show, IMO and echoed previous times under Parker where he has been found wanting. My hope is that the result has no adverse bearing on Wednesday's game. I was not impressed.
Sorry but 1 The first goal was off side. A player is interfering with play when he is as close to the goal as that. 2 That was a soft penalty Hector was watching the ball and a slight nudge is not a pen for me 3 The pitch was atrocious and favoured Burnley. So you can keep your cup for this year but there is no need to have a go at the players for it.
Watch the game again Andy, it is one of the most lacklustre efforts i've ever seen in nearly 60 years of supporting Fulham, and yes I have watched through the four divisions.
Quote from: Andy S on January 25, 2021, 10:34:51 AM
Sorry but 1 The first goal was off side. A player is interfering with play when he is as close to the goal as that. 2 That was a soft penalty Hector was watching the ball and a slight nudge is not a pen for me 3 The pitch was atrocious and favoured Burnley. So you can keep your cup for this year but there is no need to have a go at the players for it.
No need to have a go at the players ? I'm fairly sure that's exactly what Scott Parker did at half-time and the end of the game. Any decent manage isn't going be happy with a performance like that so why shouldn't the fans offer up some criticism too ?
Whether it was a clear statement by Scott or not, the message is quite clear - if we don't get a half decent striker and possibly another CB we will be relegated; and that lovely new stand of ours will be just a white elephant, because I think many of our supporters will drift away. We would be lucky to 1500 through the gates, much 30000
It is obvious the while our midfield is reasonably sound, we have no depth in our defence as yesterday proved, though a fit Congolo might help a bit.
Quote from: Andy S on January 25, 2021, 10:34:51 AM
Sorry but 1 The first goal was off side. A player is interfering with play when he is as close to the goal as that. 2 That was a soft penalty Hector was watching the ball and a slight nudge is not a pen for me 3 The pitch was atrocious and favoured Burnley. So you can keep your cup for this year but there is no need to have a go at the players for it.
Seeing the goals on BBC, not MOTD, but not in depth or with any analysis and from the one camera angle have to agree with the above. Did not see any of the incidents such as our disallowed goal and the BDR penalty shout so only have GJ view from listening to the game.
Quote from: blingo on January 24, 2021, 11:01:43 PM
Sorry, but we were crap.
Sums it up for me. Worst Fulham performance I can remember for a long, long time. Thank goodness we have shored up our defence. Can you imagine what a better team than Burnley would have done to us....
Long list of excuses. It's why we have consistently allowed these kinds of performances in the cup for years.
<<Today was entirely about league survival>>
Not so sure you can write it off as simply as that. There were quite a few players in that game that will likely comprise our starting XI on Wednesday for probably the most important tilt of the year, to date. The whole lot looked poor.
It is exceedingly rare for a professional footballer not to to try at all, so with the caveat that I only listened to the match, I would not level that criticism at the players - it's the sort of judgement one makes in the emotional immediate aftermath of a defeat. However, I think it is fair to wonder sometimes whether players have really tried as hard as they can and given absolutely everything to the cause; I guess professional players ask themselves that question in the wake of a bad defeat.
I can't remember ever booing my own team off the pitch, even after 0-5 and 0-6 defeats to Chester and Port Vale in the space of a few weeks in the same season, but I don't think I could have gone to the opposite extreme and applauded them off after the match on Sunday, as the OP says he would have. I have sometimes given some token applause of commiseration after defeats, but Sunday's seems to have fallen into the category of too bad even to merit that.
