I am aware that Areola, Andersen, Loftus Cheek (Chelsea) and Lookman (RB Leipzig) are all loan players but can anyone please name them all and also their parent club and theie market value and if we have an option to buy the player?
One further question - if a club fines a player does the club keep the money or is it paid to charity.
Lemina and Aina are the other two?
Areola - PSG - Option? Yes
Aina - Torino - Option? Yes
Andersen - Lyon - Option? No
Lemina - Southampton - Option? Yes
Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea - Option? No
Lookman - RB Leipzig - Option? No
Maja - Bordeaux - Option? Yes
Mostly fines are organised by the squad themselves, not the admin part of clubs as it were. Fines are usually pooled and then spent on Christmas parties or end of season doo's things like that. Or at least the players who have retired in the last 5-10 years have told stories to that effect. I'm sure Crouchie has done something on this in his podcast.
Sign Areola, Anderson, Aina minimum.
Lookman would be a bonus.
Anymore presumably would push FFP if we hadn't already.
Suspect Mawson, Knockaert, etc would all need to go to balance books.. however still £30-40m short I imagine so.. Anguissa? Mitro?
Be interesting to see how much money we have to play with if we stayed up. Keep anderson, areola, lemina aina and lookman - probably total 80m at least???
Get rid of mawson, sess, knockers, christie, fabri, johansen, kebano, ak, mitro. Maybe get 40m total for all them?
Still need to buy a new striker , attacking mid and rw which probably another 80m? Can't see us spending 160m in the summer?
Would we need to spend £160m? Could we convert most of the loans for £80m, then loan another £80m worth of prem standard players
I would sign every single loanee if we stay up, will cost us close to 100mill but would be worth it. If we sign them all we will probably only need a prem quality Right winger and a proven goalscorer. So probably looking at 120 mill next spend, we will also get additional TV money as we stay up so we are likely to be able to afford it
Quote from: EricB on March 08, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Would we need to spend £160m? Could we convert most of the loans for £80m, then loan another £80m worth of prem standard players
True not a bad idea! I forgot to add mlm and seri to list of players to sell. We have a big squad
Quote from: WestSussexWhite on March 08, 2021, 10:11:10 PM
I would sign every single loanee if we stay up, will cost us close to 100mill but would be worth it. If we sign them all we will probably only need a prem quality Right winger and a proven goalscorer. So probably looking at 120 mill next spend, we will also get additional TV money as we stay up so we are likely to be able to afford it
Agreed, although I think we'll severely struggle to get two PL quality forwards for the £20m you've budgeted. But if we offload the deadwood (Fabri, MLM, Seri, Mawson, Knockaert...) I reckon we'll have a bit more than £120m to spend, plus we can always have a few fresh loans next season if we make this season's loanees permanent.
IF we stay up, i think we can sign 6 of the loans for 40-60m, Andersen is not going to happen.
Areola - PSG - Option? Yes
Aina - Torino - Option? Yes
Lemina - Southampton - Option? Yes
Lookman - RB Leipzig - Option? No
Maja - Bordeaux - Option? Yes
Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea - Option? No - On a huge salary down the road, can't see him joining us this summer. Also don't think anyone else will sign him, another loan to us might be a good solution for them as well. He is more likely to come good here than anywhere else...he has had a decent season but he needs to have a great season for them to get him off their books.
A few more signing and we are good to go for next year. Tuanzebe? Reiss? Armstrong? Kongolo (basically a new signing if we can get him fit...)
Andersen - Lyon - Option? No - Will play Champions League next season, now out of out reach.
Quote from: Milo on March 08, 2021, 09:28:30 PM
Sign Areola, Anderson, Aina minimum.
Lookman would be a bonus.
Anymore presumably would push FFP if we hadn't already.
Suspect Mawson, Knockaert, etc would all need to go to balance books.. however still £30-40m short I imagine so.. Anguissa? Mitro?
If the 4 you mentioned cost 100 million and they all signed 4 yr contracts, then you only have to amortize 25 million plus salary. The issue won't be next season, but how far do you push the boat out over the next 3 seasons following. I don't think it is as a big of a risk because all 4 have shown themselves to be top level players, no guess work with them. Think each like FZA can be moved on if needed at any point in a pinch, but it is not my money that would be on the line.
Lemina would basically cost you the price of selling S. Sess or Kamara for next season. That is a no brainer.
This season the issue is you could not push it out too far because if you went back down you still have to amortize for 35 million in players plus salary next season. On top of that some of your biggest FFP price tags are guys like MLM/Seri. Mawson, and Knock all who are not with the club at this point and have little to no sell on value.
Quote from: Statto on March 08, 2021, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: WestSussexWhite on March 08, 2021, 10:11:10 PM
I would sign every single loanee if we stay up, will cost us close to 100mill but would be worth it. If we sign them all we will probably only need a prem quality Right winger and a proven goalscorer. So probably looking at 120 mill next spend, we will also get additional TV money as we stay up so we are likely to be able to afford it
Agreed, although I think we'll severely struggle to get two PL quality forwards for the £20m you've budgeted. But if we offload the deadwood (Fabri, MLM, Seri, Mawson, Knockaert...) I reckon we'll have a bit more than £120m to spend, plus we can always have a few fresh loans next season if we make this season's loanees permanent.
Another thing to consider as well if we stay up is that the PL income would make FPP look vastly better would it not which would allow another splurge in the transfer market? Over the rolling three years with two years of PL income, t should give us much more wiggle room in theory, and we've also ended up with some players who have vastly inflated their price tag based on this season, so worst comes to the worst we could flog one of them to a lazy top six club with more money than sense
I think the more interesting question is "What would you pay for each of them?"
Andersen was bought in 2019 for 28m. French football finances are a mess beyond global ones, so who knows what Lyon would ask, but hard to believe it would be much less than that. 30-35m is a very hard swallow, but Andersen's my favorite Fulham player in ages. He could become a legend here. Dunno.
Areola probably would be in the 15-20m range, based on prior valuations and comparable purchases (like Mendy). Likely worth it. He seems happy.
Lookman ... 15m? I could see an argument either way on him. Not a must for me, but depending on price, you can warrant the roll of the dice.
RLC ... who knows. It would come down to fee and wages. I'd pass, unless his attitude with Parker and the club is way better than we perceive it and he wants to be one of our core guys.
Aina and Lemina's options should both be below 10m and you take those instantly, imo.
Maja I think was stated to be 9m? Not a must for me. At the very least, we need a better starter than him, so he may end up as a luxury.
So, let's say we go all in on Andersen and Areola because they're awesome and love us, and pass on RLC and Lookman.
We'd spend about 70m in fees to have our goalkeeper and keep our back five intact. We'd need a top-class striker and at least two attacking mid/wing types. Pricey. We'd have to offset some of that by selling Seri, Mawson and very possibly Mitrovic, among others. But we'd have a chance to be very, very good.
(To think about these possibilities and the alternate world where we get relegated and this all gets dismantled is so nervewracking.)
Lemina has a crazy cheap option at £7m and I believe Maja and Aina are around £10m each. I'd pick them all up and offset by selling the likes of AK47, Seri, Knock and Mawson. Know Areola has a reasonable option too, but don't know how much - obviously you pick that up whatever the cost.
Andersen - if there is a way to keep him then we must do it. I would pay £50m if thats what it takes. World class centre halfs don't grow on trees and he could be the foundations of something special.
Lookman - if we can make it happen for £25m then do it but if it's much more we might be better to invest elsewhere.
RLC - no thanks
We can raise funds by selling Mitro if we need to. His value must still be £25-30m which we could use to get a more mobile striker better suited to our style of play (sorry Mitro!)
Aina Lemina Maja will all sign full time if we stay up
If we can convince Areola on the option that would be some signing.
Lookman I'm sure Parker will like back will probably cost 20m but certainly worth it.
Andersen I think will be hard to keep they could easily ask 40m for him
Now will be very surprised if we sign him.
Loftus Cheek Parker has said he would like to sign but again seems pricey.
I think Andersen & RLC the least likely to return if we do escape
Quote from: Pluto on March 09, 2021, 02:24:39 AM
Lemina has a crazy cheap option at £7m and I believe Maja and Aina are around £10m each. I'd pick them all up and offset by selling the likes of AK47, Seri, Knock and Mawson. Know Areola has a reasonable option too, but don't know how much - obviously you pick that up whatever the cost.
Andersen - if there is a way to keep him then we must do it. I would pay £50m if thats what it takes. World class centre halfs don't grow on trees and he could be the foundations of something special.
Lookman - if we can make it happen for £25m then do it but if it's much more we might be better to invest elsewhere.
RLC - no thanks
We can raise funds by selling Mitro if we need to. His value must still be £25-30m which we could use to get a more mobile striker better suited to our style of play (sorry Mitro!)
Areola option was reported to be around 8.5 to 9 million euros in France
Lemina was reported as 7 million
Maja was reported to be 10 million euros in France
Aina was similar I think
I thought there was an option on Lookman but cant remember what it was, if it isn't an option the we have first dibs so to speak.
Anderson there is no option, it was reported they told us they wanted 30 million Euros for a permanent deal or 7-8 million euros for a loan deal, so we waited till the end of the Window and got a loan fee of around 1.7 to 2 million pounds instead
RLC has no option but think next year is the last of his Chelsea deal, will Tuchel want him? Given how Abraham is being treated I don't reckon so.
Personally I would sign all the loan players up if we had the chance to do so
We need to trim our squad drastically.
Seriously we would not suffer at all if got rid of Cav, Hector, Knockers, Sess jnr, Fabri, MLM, Mawson, AK47, Seri, Christie, Betts, StefJo,Mitro and we do not need RLC either.
If we kept Lemina (essential) Lookman, and most of all Andersen,and then Aina and Maja all for their option prices or whatever Andersen would cost (£20m is a bargain ) then we can afford to amortize that over 4 years as we will stay up next year for sure and the above saving on wage bill will be massive, not to mention some fees in, although some will be low.
We will still need a long term replacement for Tom C. and some more firepower BUT we should start integrating young players into our system. Slow and steady so we will in effect be buying ourselves two years of stability.
Got to be worth it. We are playing some good stuff and we are still improving.Also imagine losing Scotty in the summer, he would walk if we fail to secure at least 75% of our loanees,and we can win him over re losing RLC.
The Andersen factor will be the test of where FFC are going and whether that RIverside stand will ever be packed.He is an outstanding player for us.
People talking about letting Mitrovic go. Literally the only player in the squad capable of scoring more than 10 goals in a season. FFS.
:doh:
Two things worth a mention.
For the players, we dont have an option on, we'll be up against teams with deeper pockets who could offer more in the way of wages and opportunities.
For those we do, don't we need to agree personal terms with them?
It would be great if we could keep this team together and at the very least actually see them playing in the flesh. Disappointingly I don't believe it will happen.
However feed Tony Khan whatever he was eating and drinking when he signed those loan deals and let him and his team find more like that and at the very least it will cushion the blow when they go.
I hope the players on loan are realistic on wages as I'm sure some will have inflated salaries?
If we stay up, what they value themselves at could be the sticking point!
Quote from: simplyfulham on March 08, 2021, 08:19:35 PM
Areola - PSG - Option? Yes
Aina - Torino - Option? Yes
Andersen - Lyon - Option? No
Lemina - Southampton - Option? Yes
Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea - Option? No
Lookman - RB Leipzig - Option? No
Maja - Bordeaux - Option? Yes
All assumes FFC survives this campaign:
Areola - - Yes, try to sign give best effort, elite/class GK
Aina - - Yes, try to sign
Andersen - - Yes, try to sign at all costs, may be a lot of cabbage
Lemina - - Yes, try to sign
RLC - - No, pass, let him go, not interested
Lookman - - Only sign if financially makes sense, I actually think we can do better with his position
Maja - - Only sign if financially makes sense, I actually think we can do better with his position
I would only keep one of Maja/Lookman, if either. I think FFC should seek out one or two more quality strikers/goal scorers for a new PL campaign. Those two have been serviceable so far, but far from top quality imo.
I would sign them all except RLC if possible (poor value at £30m).
If we can afford to sign all of the others, then it would be great business - even if we end up paying £30m for Andersen alone.
I think the only big weakness in the squad would then be a centre forward, as I don't see Maja as first choice and Mitrovic needs a severe upturn in form/fitness to challenge for a place.
That said - we also need to find more goals from elsewhere on the pitch. Whether Cairney can come in and contribute to goal scoring as well as creating is debatable. Assuming we stay up and do sign all the loaness, perhaps a good pre-season focused on our play in the last third will improve that aspect as well...
So if Lyon were prepared to sell Andersen for @30m orloan for 8m then I can't see why they wouldn't sell now.
However look at what the Scousers paid for VVD. And the Spuds could do with him.
For us, when we stay up, he could be the difference in us being a good team or a great team.
I hope people are working on him as we speak !!
Agree with most and unless RLC takes more risks and scores then he can move on
As for Mitro we will not get £30M for him - but any idea how much we could get for him...
Love that everyone's now sure we're staying up reading these posts.
Andersen is the most tricky one, if we offered him a huge contract, made him club captain, and gave him a decent sell on promise, tell him if he gives us 2 years of a 5 year deal we would let him go for £xyz. We could point to Van Dijk at Southampton and his move to Liverpool.
They are The Loan Rangers
Speechless at how many people would pass on lookman. He is our best attacking player. 4 goals and 3 assists. BDR has 5 goals 0 assists.
Quote from: WindyCity on March 09, 2021, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on March 08, 2021, 08:19:35 PM
Areola - PSG - Option? Yes
Aina - Torino - Option? Yes
Andersen - Lyon - Option? No
Lemina - Southampton - Option? Yes
Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea - Option? No
Lookman - RB Leipzig - Option? No
Maja - Bordeaux - Option? Yes
All assumes FFC survives this campaign:
Areola - - Yes, try to sign give best effort, elite/class GK
Aina - - Yes, try to sign
Andersen - - Yes, try to sign at all costs, may be a lot of cabbage
Lemina - - Yes, try to sign
RLC - - No, pass, let him go, not interested
Lookman - - Only sign if financially makes sense, I actually think we can do better with his position
Maja - - Only sign if financially makes sense, I actually think we can do better with his position
I would only keep one of Maja/Lookman, if either. I think FFC should seek out one or two more quality strikers/goal scorers for a new PL campaign. Those two have been serviceable so far, but far from top quality imo.
Very very very harsh on lookman. He is probably the reason we will stay up. The best stats for any of our attacking players and actually creates chances. We may as well just sell our whole attack if he isn't good enough.
Quote from: Sammyffc on March 09, 2021, 06:45:39 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on March 09, 2021, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on March 08, 2021, 08:19:35 PM
Very very very harsh on lookman. He is probably the reason we will stay up. The best stats for any of our attacking players and actually creates chances. We may as well just sell our whole attack if he isn't good enough.
Appreciate your response. I know it may sound harsh, but I'm sorry, I think we deserve to have a much better front line attack if we are to remain PL quality. I'm not saying Lookman is poor, I just don't think he is high level/high quality. If he remained in the team, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I just think we could do better. There was even a thread in the forum recently questioning if Lookman was 'greedy'. My response was there is nothing wrong with a striker being greedy/selfish, BUT that he should also be able to make plays and create chances, which I don't think he does enough. Top strikers in this league also have good numbers of assists. Lookman fails often to make a pass to a wide open teammate, and very noticeable on overlap plays he ignores. Maybe he doesn't 'see' those opportunities, because he has tunnel vision only in getting off a shot. IMO, not quite a 'complete' player. Again, not a bad or poor player, but I just think we could do better. JMHO.
Quote from: WindyCity on March 09, 2021, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on March 09, 2021, 06:45:39 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on March 09, 2021, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on March 08, 2021, 08:19:35 PM
Very very very harsh on lookman. He is probably the reason we will stay up. The best stats for any of our attacking players and actually creates chances. We may as well just sell our whole attack if he isn't good enough.
Appreciate your response. I know it may sound harsh, but I'm sorry, I think we deserve to have a much better front line attack if we are to remain PL quality. I'm not saying Lookman is poor, I just don't think he is high level/high quality. If he remained in the team, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I just think we could do better. There was even a thread in the forum recently questioning if Lookman was 'greedy'. My response was there is nothing wrong with a striker being greedy/selfish, BUT that he should also be able to make plays and create chances, which I don't think he does enough. Top strikers in this league also have good numbers of assists. Lookman fails often to make a pass to a wide open teammate, and very noticeable on overlap plays he ignores. Maybe he doesn't 'see' those opportunities, because he has tunnel vision only in getting off a shot. IMO, not quite a 'complete' player. Again, not a bad or poor player, but I just think we could do better. JMHO.
Fair points !!! I am curious to who you believe would be better than him though that we could get ? anyone in mind. In my opinion he is the best attacking winger we have had for many many many many years.
Quote from: Sammyffc on March 09, 2021, 06:45:39 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on March 09, 2021, 04:19:27 PM
Very very very harsh on lookman. He is probably the reason we will stay up. The best stats for any of our attacking players and actually creates chances. We may as well just sell our whole attack if he isn't good enough.
Appreciate your response. I know it may sound harsh, but I'm sorry, I think we deserve to have a much better front line attack if we are to remain PL quality. I'm not saying Lookman is poor, I just don't think he is high level/high quality. If he remained in the team, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I just think we could do better. There was even a thread in the forum recently questioning if Lookman was 'greedy'. My response was there is nothing wrong with a striker being greedy/selfish, BUT that he should also be able to make plays and create chances, which I don't think he does enough. Top strikers in this league also have good numbers of assists. Lookman fails often to make a pass to a wide open teammate, and very noticeable on overlap plays he ignores. Maybe he doesn't 'see' those opportunities, because he has tunnel vision only in getting off a shot. IMO, not quite a 'complete' player. Again, not a bad or poor player, but I just think we could do better. JMHO.
It's worth bearing a couple of things in mind.
1) There's a stat recorded on FBref.com that measures the amount of passes each player makes that lead to a shot within the next two actions.
For example, if Lookman passes to Maja and he shoots, then that counts as a
Shot-creating action. If Lookman passes to Aina who then crosses for Maja who has a shot, that would also count as a
Shot-creating action for Lookman (as well as Aina).
Lookman is ranked 1st in the squad for
passes in live-play that lead to a shot attempt. While I agree he can be greedy at times, he's also doing more than his fair share going forward to create shots for others.
2) He's only 23 and competing at a very good level (younger than Aina, Onomah and Robinson and arguable better then all 3 of those). He will improve.
Lookman is a real talent and we should really try to keep him. Players of his quality are hard to find, he has also integrated very well and is a local lad which I am sure helps. A lot of what he does on the pitch is probably natural but a lot also coached. I imagine for example, Robinson is told to bomb past him and occupy the full back allowing Lookman to cut inside for the shot. This can make him look greedy but I expect it's a planned move.
Do we not have an option on Lookman? I thought it had emerged we do and it was a fair price. He's our most potent attacking threat.
As a still slightly raw 23yr old I rate him fairly highly. He presses forward with pace and that unsettles opposition defences. His passing clearly needs to improve but I think our coaching team can work on that.
Quote from: Sammyffc on March 09, 2021, 06:39:13 PM
Speechless at how many people would pass on lookman. He is our best attacking player. 4 goals and 3 assists. BDR has 5 goals 0 assists.
That's hardly the most compelling stat. He's a £20m+ player that we'd only sign if we stayed up and were aspiring towards to PL mid-table stability... and he has less goals than a player we bought for £10m whilst we were in the Championship.
Nonetheless IF WE STAY UP then FWIW I think Lookman is a good player, and combined with his youth and potential, as good a forward as we're likely to be able to attract and hold on to. Probably better to keep him if we can rather than take a gamble on some £30m player from the French or Dutch leagues who could completely flop.
Areola - PSG - £6-8m
Aina - Torino - £10m
Andersen - Lyon - £25-35m
Lemina - Southampton - £6m
Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea - £20-30m
Lookman - RB Leipzig - £20m
Maja - Bordeaux - £10m
The above is what I estimate keeping what we have would cost- on top estimates it would cost: £119m.
I think Mitrovic would leave for £25m and some other fridge players and people out on loan- call it other £5-7m- let's call it £30m in.
Which will mean out next spend will be: £89m. If you keep in mind we didn't 'really' spend this year then we should certainly be able to afford it if we stay up. I remember Aston Villa spent big when they came up and then spent big the following summer as well.
We need to retain what we have, and buy several more players in the forward positions. I'd imagine it will be loans and maybe a big ticket striker
Quote from: Wolf on March 10, 2021, 09:54:52 AM
Do we not have an option on Lookman? I thought it had emerged we do and it was a fair price. He's our most potent attacking threat.
RBL tend to be willing to let their flops go for reasonable prices (the same that they paid usually). The quoted asking price was £15 million this winter, and I don't see why it would have gone up a lot since then.
For £15 million he is a bargain imo.
I would not want RLC, there is something not quite right about him, I think it's because he would prefer to be at Chelsea and it's more obvious with him than anyone that he is not here for the long term.
Quote from: LC on March 10, 2021, 02:31:32 PM
Areola - PSG - £6-8m
Aina - Torino - £10m
Andersen - Lyon - £25-35m
Lemina - Southampton - £6m
Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea - £20-30m
Lookman - RB Leipzig - £20m
Maja - Bordeaux - £10m
The above is what I estimate keeping what we have would cost- on top estimates it would cost: £119m.
I think Mitrovic would leave for £25m and some other fridge players and people out on loan- call it other £5-7m- let's call it £30m in.
Which will mean out next spend will be: £89m. If you keep in mind we didn't 'really' spend this year then we should certainly be able to afford it if we stay up. I remember Aston Villa spent big when they came up and then spent big the following summer as well.
We need to retain what we have, and buy several more players in the forward positions. I'd imagine it will be loans and maybe a big ticket striker
If we pay £20-30m for RLC we're getting our trousers pulled down and done rigorously. Walk away at that price please.
We already need a winger and a striker. If Mitrovic goes then that's a third new forward we need and they cost £20m each. Sorry but I'd rather keep Mitrovic, probably one of our top 5 strikers of all time, than offload him just because he's off form and let TK spunk a fortune on some random name from Belgium.
Offloading the dead wood will make a huge difference. With Seri, MLM, Mawson, Fabri and Knockaert we have £50-60m in fees amortising in the accounts and just selling them for their book value (probably about a quarter of what we paid for them) we free up budget for that much spending again.
More to the point as to what the issue with RLC would be is that he is on a very high wage, simlar to Areola (which is about double what any of our other players are on). I can see Areola being willing to take a paycut, and there is an argument to be made to have him as our highest paid player. But with RLC he isn't a stand out player as of now and I doubt he'd be as willing to drop his wages.
Quote from: simplyfulham on March 09, 2021, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on March 09, 2021, 06:45:39 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on March 09, 2021, 04:19:27 PM
It's worth bearing a couple of things in mind.
1) There's a stat recorded on FBref.com that measures the amount of passes each player makes that lead to a shot within the next two actions.
For example, if Lookman passes to Maja and he shoots, then that counts as a Shot-creating action. If Lookman passes to Aina who then crosses for Maja who has a shot, that would also count as a Shot-creating action for Lookman (as well as Aina).
Lookman is ranked 1st in the squad for passes in live-play that lead to a shot attempt. While I agree he can be greedy at times, he's also doing more than his fair share going forward to create shots for others.
2) He's only 23 and competing at a very good level (younger than Aina, Onomah and Robinson and arguable better then all 3 of those). He will improve.
Nice to know this information, was not aware. All fair points, but I would also add ranking first in THIS squad in this regard is not particularly noteworthy as FFC offense is one of the worst in the league and we have very hard time scoring goals. Very few shot attempts in general, and certainly very few shot attempts that actually are on net or would give the net minder any trouble. Not trying to be overly critical or harsh, it's just that FFC needs to find a stronger attack next season on the premise we remain top flight.
Your point that he is still very young is a good one and would likely be considered in the equation.
