I am interested to hear of any reason to stick with Scott Parker. In my opinion he under performed last season with a decent squad. We have, in my opinion, gone backwards as a club with arguably a much stronger group of players ( please note I didn't say team). Only rarely have I seen solid team performances this season ( I've watched every game) and conclude that Mr Parker is way out of his depth.
Biggest problem for me is that with all psychological evaluation that he ordered, it looks like to me that he lost all players who promoted us. Unfortunetly for him he did not improve any of those players or given chance to awesome academy players in meaningful way. His destiny is tied with loanees, by looks of it no player will play for him in championship.
I hope we stay but Skot should bet all on 3 4 3 and not include any players who promoted us. I think these guys will still play for him.
As you'll see from my posts, there's no reason to keep him now. He's had a long run as our manager but sadly isn't up to it.
#HoweIn
Agreed, and whilst you're at it, get rid of TK as well.
Blingo, whilst I agree with you, I don't think that ejecting TK is an option.
Quote from: blingo on April 11, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
Agreed, and whilst you're at it, get rid of TK as well.
From what I have been told from a reliable source, that the reason a striker was not brought in was that Parker was happy with what he had being Mitrovic, Kamara, BDR, Cav and a couple of promising youngsters, TK was asked to get defenders. How true this is, well I don't know, but if it is then it's hardly TK's fault if he done what the head coach wanted.
I don't think TK has done a bad job to be honest this year (the first promotion season, yes he did).
I think Parker is out of his depth unfortunately.
#HoweIn
I would keep Parker unless there is a definate improvement out there, but
Who?
The Brentford Manager, Benitez etc etc etc
I fear the loathsome Allardyce is about to demonstrate what an experienced manager can achieve with limited resources. There are clubs that appoint managers that i have never heard of but turn out to be successful. Down to TK to sort out but sticking with a dud such as Parker is surely not the answer
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
I've noted that a number of fans " like" Scott. This is not a popularity contest. I want an effective manager and could not care less if he was not Mr Nice guy. Furguson was not top of my dinner guest list but he knew how to manage a successful football team. There are quite a few young and promising managers in the lower divisions as well as those currently in Europe/Scotland. I simply don't accept that we cannot find better than Parker.
Pressure off now see if parker can get a style of play going that doesn't consist of keep-ball with no purpose or he can go
H4, that is the point. Furguson stamped his authority on the club. Parker is incapable of any such action ...end of
I would keep Parker.
I think he has done a pretty good job with what was a very tricky and short pre-season, and the improvements made around December to March really showed he could be a very good manager in the making...only last month he was being highly praised by many.... Just had a bad few weeks recently that looks to have finished off the team mathematically and spritually.
I look around and what other options are there ?...Ranieri again ?... Nah, Scott has done a good job, learnt a lot in very tricky circumstances, and I would be happy if he stays, and give him a chance at promotion back again... Maybe if he doesn't do that then he can go, but I think he definitely deserves one more season at least.
Quote from: Keefy on April 11, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
H4, that is the point. Furguson stamped his authority on the club. Parker is incapable of any such action ...end of
In his early days Ferguson was a game or two away from being relieved of his duties so it was not all roses. Is it not 'accepted' that a Mark Robins goal that won the game gave him a reprieve. Parker, and like any of the proposed replacements, is in no position to stamp any sort of authority on this Club because football has changed a hundred fold and the owners call the shots. Or did you mean the team?
End of.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
+ 1
Parker did really well to get promotion with his tactics. It was dull as dishwater, and a lot of people were calling for his head long before the playoffs. A couple of decent performances and he was suddenly a genius telling Bryan to shoot. Credit where its due for plugging a leaky defence and making some tough calls on players to drop.
But... is he the man to get promotion again? Can you imagine a Parker side putting 7 past Huddersfield? Stick or twist - I'd say twist.
Quote from: colham on April 11, 2021, 08:15:30 PM
Parker did really well to get promotion with his tactics. It was dull as dishwater, and a lot of people were calling for his head long before the playoffs. A couple of decent performances and he was suddenly a genius telling Bryan to shoot. Credit where its due for plugging a leaky defence and making some tough calls on players to drop.
But... is he the man to get promotion again? Can you imagine a Parker side putting 7 past Huddersfield? Stick or twist - I'd say twist.
I think I agree, although if we do twist who do we go for? People mentioning the likes of Eddie Howe but no chance he would come to us in the championship.
Quote from: Karlos on April 11, 2021, 08:13:06 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
+ 1
But wasn't this why Slav old asst was brought in as Ass DOF to develop a style thought out the Club, that or have someone in place if they had to sack Parker, dont think it would be the style Parker has been turning out, but he moved on and no replacement yet probably down to Covid
I can't help but feel that Parker is the coach the players want, but not the coach they need. They need to be chewed out when they screw up, and need to lose their spots. Based on his interviews, and the constant dialogue on the sidelines with Wells, it just seems so heavily based on "developing players". We're not getting results, but we're developing players. Forget that - we need results. This is just a gut feeling from a former college player.
Quote from: Nero on April 11, 2021, 08:18:01 PM
Quote from: Karlos on April 11, 2021, 08:13:06 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
+ 1
But wasn't this why Slav old asst was brought in as Ass DOF to develop a style thought out the Club, that or have someone in place if they had to sack Parker, dont think it would be the style Parker has been turning out, but he moved on and no replacement yet probably down to Covid
Whoever has the ideology, it must be shared & lived..... Wenger for instance was the driving force for everything including the colour of the paint on the walls....we haven't got a club ideology or identity....look at Porto or Ajax
Cosy old Fulham. Turn up for training, do just enough, go and have a butcher's at the team sheet to see what time to turn up, stick on the headphones and wander off.
Quote from: alfie on April 11, 2021, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 11, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
Agreed, and whilst you're at it, get rid of TK as well.
From what I have been told from a reliable source, that the reason a striker was not brought in was that Parker was happy with what he had being Mitrovic, Kamara, BDR, Cav and a couple of promising youngsters, TK was asked to get defenders. How true this is, well I don't know, but if it is then it's hardly TK's fault if he done what the head coach wanted.
If that is true then definitely get rid of Parker.
We need a fresh start for next season, Crab has to go. The team was boring to watch last season and this season the excitement has been few and far between.
Quote from: Steeeeeeeeeed on April 11, 2021, 05:58:59 PM
I would keep Parker.
I think he has done a pretty good job with what was a very tricky and short pre-season, and the improvements made around December to March really showed he could be a very good manager in the making...only last month he was being highly praised by many.... Just had a bad few weeks recently that looks to have finished off the team mathematically and spritually.
I look around and what other options are there ?...Ranieri again ?... Nah, Scott has done a good job, learnt a lot in very tricky circumstances, and I would be happy if he stays, and give him a chance at promotion back again... Maybe if he doesn't do that then he can go, but I think he definitely deserves one more season at least.
:plus one:
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
May I ask how I might know whether a club has an ideology? How would I tell? What would I see? And, importantly, how would having an ideology prevent us from 'making the same mistakes' - whatever these are. (You give no clue.)
Might I also ask: Roughly speaking, how many clubs - especially outside of the Premier League - have an ideology? And how do different clubs' ideologies vary? Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide some examples.
Quote from: Matt10 on April 11, 2021, 08:45:01 PM
I can't help but feel that Parker is the coach the players want, but not the coach they need. They need to be chewed out when they screw up, and need to lose their spots. Based on his interviews, and the constant dialogue on the sidelines with Wells, it just seems so heavily based on "developing players". We're not getting results, but we're developing players. Forget that - we need results. This is just a gut feeling from a former college player.
Interviews he gives after games is vastly different to what he says behind closed doors.
Unless you are a club (e.g. Brentford in the past few years) with a recruitment system that works regardless of turnover caused by loss of better players when promotion targets are missed, you are playing poker, often with a less than decent hand, in the marketplace. That holds true for almost everyone outside the more successful clubs. Our history under the Khans does not suggest we have an efficient plan or system for identifying talent at either management or playing levels. It is hit and miss. We have also seen, when our owners have demonstrated sensitivity to this issue, that there is no easy resolution to the problem and bringing in help is not so easy to do. Having said that the corollary of not having a good coping system is that when you strike lucky with recruitment and find a recruit who actually performs well in the job you hang onto them and move heaven and earth to provide them with the right support. That is especially true of key employees. Our owners have failed to do that.
Getting sorted at the top of the Club will work wonders everywhere else. If Parker goes without our owners having a certain winning hand of cards for the marketplace will be just another big mistake unless, of course, the other players fear the worse and fold. Miracles happen but I think our owners have squandered much of their better fortune.
Why keep Parker = continuity, popular with the players and he is most likely to keep the squad together.
Why fire Parker = his football is boring to watch and he does not make the most of the talent at his disposal.
Quote from: alfie on April 12, 2021, 07:59:12 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on April 11, 2021, 08:45:01 PM
I can't help but feel that Parker is the coach the players want, but not the coach they need. They need to be chewed out when they screw up, and need to lose their spots. Based on his interviews, and the constant dialogue on the sidelines with Wells, it just seems so heavily based on "developing players". We're not getting results, but we're developing players. Forget that - we need results. This is just a gut feeling from a former college player.
Interviews he gives after games is vastly different to what he says behind closed doors.
I'm sure this is true -Parker is tough , driven character, as shown by his achievements in the game, and I'm sure he can read the riot act if necessary, , but, as has been said elsewhere by people in the game,, these days managers can't a rant, give abuse and call players out in front of everyone, like they did in the past - the players just won't accept it.
I think Parker is also good at having a quiet word with a player, finding out if he has a problem, rather than just turning on the 'hairdryer' of Alex Ferguson fame.
That is in the past, along with pitches like bogs, playing with blood running down your face through a bloody bandage, or numbed with painkilling injections, the 'robust', or even not so robust, tackle, and the team bonding for a once a week p*** up, for good or for ill.
I like the way Parker communicates with coaching staff, to get a balanced view of things, also. I don't see this as a weakness, though he obviously makes the final decision.
And i think the players respect and like Parker, and he thus gets the best out of them though many seem to see this as not the case and that our players could do better under someone else.
But, when it come o scoring say, who of our players has a career record of scoring a lot of goals, apart from mitro.
I think Parker has done well to gain promotion with this team, and to manage to at least stay in touch, after looking as if we would get a record low points, with the loans brought in defensively - but we obviously are still lacking in other areas especially goal scoring.
But Parker can only work with the players he has.
Quote from: alfie on April 12, 2021, 07:59:12 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on April 11, 2021, 08:45:01 PM
I can't help but feel that Parker is the coach the players want, but not the coach they need. They need to be chewed out when they screw up, and need to lose their spots. Based on his interviews, and the constant dialogue on the sidelines with Wells, it just seems so heavily based on "developing players". We're not getting results, but we're developing players. Forget that - we need results. This is just a gut feeling from a former college player.
Interviews he gives after games is vastly different to what he says behind closed doors.
I think both of these opinions can be true together without a positive outcome.
Parker clearly has a system honed to deal with two things that have haunted his teams ever since his first games: i) defensive frailty and ii) performance inconsistency. On the first count the appearance of Andersen has had a major impact on steadying us defensively but is not the complete answer because of the second count. You can be difficult to score against without having enough up front to disturb and distress the tactics of more experienced personnel. That is not a situation resolved easily if player faults are being driven by the constant pressure of being on the wrong end of a scoreline. Psychologically defenders feel the pressure of keeping the ball out of their net but not seeing the ball go into the other net. Sooner or later something has to be changed or the whole will simply collapse. Parker has to be sure that he knows where the faults are and deal with them. If he faults individuals he must be sure his system is not at fault and I do not believe from what I have seen from Parker throughout that he can be sure. Individuals will always make mistakes. Parker knows that from hs playing days. Jokanovic called risk taking 'bravery' and it starts with the coach and spreads to individuals by custom and practice.
Is Parker the coach brave? The jury is still out.
Keep Scott Parker, we need stability and consistency, we have had far too many changes of management in recent years and we keep going back to Square One. Far too many loanees, a poorly balanced squad due to last minute scatter gun approaches to recruitment.
No long term plan, no short term plan, just a complete lottery.
To start with we need a full time D of F with the proper qualifications and experience who will actually be full time and work on site and be hands on.
Just a thought,
The unmitigated disaster that was ranieri, 3 wins in 16
Parker 5 in 32.
Quote from: Arthur on April 12, 2021, 01:22:24 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
May I ask how I might know whether a club has an ideology? How would I tell? What would I see? And, importantly, how would having an ideology prevent us from 'making the same mistakes' - whatever these are. (You give no clue.)
Might I also ask: Roughly speaking, how many clubs - especially outside of the Premier League - have an ideology? And how do different clubs' ideologies vary? Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide some examples.
Yep... I'll play - have a look at Porto...what is there ideology...get un-named/un-heard of talent into the team on a regular basis, sell at a fat profit - while year after year playing a similar style of successful football... everybody within the club is part of that ideology.... Ajax do the same, but usually through youth, but whoever manages them plays the Ajax way ..... Prem league....ManC get the best at any cost, and improve them...reasonably new stadium, fantastic new training facilities while helping the local community, wanted to be recognised globally & have done so.... Hotspuds, new stadium, new training facilities - attract reasonable to good player's from the prem & around the world to turn into profit....with Southampton, Spuds nicked the old Manager & most of the youth staff to nick Southampton's successful youth programs
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 12, 2021, 01:17:53 AM
Quote from: Steeeeeeeeeed on April 11, 2021, 05:58:59 PM
I would keep Parker.
I think he has done a pretty good job with what was a very tricky and short pre-season, and the improvements made around December to March really showed he could be a very good manager in the making...only last month he was being highly praised by many.... Just had a bad few weeks recently that looks to have finished off the team mathematically and spritually.
I look around and what other options are there ?...Ranieri again ?... Nah, Scott has done a good job, learnt a lot in very tricky circumstances, and I would be happy if he stays, and give him a chance at promotion back again... Maybe if he doesn't do that then he can go, but I think he definitely deserves one more season at least.
:plus one:
Quote from: bobby01 on April 12, 2021, 09:22:56 AM
Just a thought,
The unmitigated disaster that was ranieri, 3 wins in 16
Parker 5 in 32.
The difference was that Ranieri took the job as a stop gap, knowing that he would have no influence over TK at all. He took the pay packet and which amongst us wouldn't have. Ranieri isn't a bad manager at all. I would have him over SP. BUT TK would have to give him the players he wanted
If you like have a look at Brentford....very easy to see their ideology.... in fact the management throw it down your throat wether you ask them or not.
Quote from: Keefy on April 11, 2021, 04:08:36 PM
I am interested to hear of any reason to stick with Scott Parker. In my opinion he under performed last season with a decent squad. We have, in my opinion, gone backwards as a club with arguably a much stronger group of players ( please note I didn't say team). Only rarely have I seen solid team performances this season ( I've watched every game) and conclude that Mr Parker is way out of his depth.
Scott Parker got the team promoted last season in his first full season as a manager. That is most definitely not under performing.
Its clear to see that last seasons squad wasn't as good as you say. Most of them haven't had a look in this season with numerous out on loan because they aren't good enough.
I get it that you aren't a Parker fan, fair enough, but you seem to have diluted the facts to suit your agenda.
Now, if we had a full time Director of Football giving his/her undivided attention to Fulham Football Club, we may find ourselves in a better position.
Quote from: blingo on April 12, 2021, 09:41:41 AM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 12, 2021, 01:17:53 AM
Quote from: Steeeeeeeeeed on April 11, 2021, 05:58:59 PM
I would keep Parker.
I think he has done a pretty good job with what was a very tricky and short pre-season, and the improvements made around December to March really showed he could be a very good manager in the making...only last month he was being highly praised by many.... Just had a bad few weeks recently that looks to have finished off the team mathematically and spritually.
I look around and what other options are there ?...Ranieri again ?... Nah, Scott has done a good job, learnt a lot in very tricky circumstances, and I would be happy if he stays, and give him a chance at promotion back again... Maybe if he doesn't do that then he can go, but I think he definitely deserves one more season at least.
:plus one:
Quote from: bobby01 on April 12, 2021, 09:22:56 AM
Just a thought,
The unmitigated disaster that was ranieri, 3 wins in 16
Parker 5 in 32.
The difference was that Ranieri took the job as a stop gap, knowing that he would have no influence over TK at all. He took the pay packet and which amongst us wouldn't have. Ranieri isn't a bad manager at all. I would have him over SP. BUT TK would have to give him the players he wanted
Sorry blingo, the point I was making was, most on here lambasted ranieri, and rightly so, but some are happy with Parker with a very similar set of figures. It was just a thought.
I'm somewhat ambivalent on this question. I don't think he's been amazing, and does seem to value a less attack minded focus than we would all enjoy. But when you look at it, this season particularly - we don't have decent enough forwards and wingers. Our DoF hasn't provided a proper balanced squad at any point in time. I remember once, there was a prevailing wisdom that a balanced squad required 4 centre forwards - these days I would argue 3 is enough (and I'm only in my 30s so it's not like we're talking decades ago!!). We've had only one at the start of each of the last 2 seasons now.
I'd like to think that Parker is still jury's out. Give him a balanced squad, with 3 centre forwards and players not just returning from injury (Kongolo, RLC etc.) and see what happens. The common thread in Slav, Ranieri and Parker is the DoF.
If Parker Stays I can genuinely see Fulham Storming back next season as run away Championship winners. Not saying definitely, but very possible.
The squad will be very different, but I feel Scott and the Khan's have learnt so much the last two years. We will have a very different squad as the loanees leave, but will get in similar players that fit the blueprint...and have a proper pre-season to prepare this time.
2021-2022 could be a truly memorable Championship Season, and the basis of a long stay in the Premiership, with Mr Parker consolidated and there for ten years.
(I will bookmark this post and come back in 11 years to say I told you so)
If he's going to stay he needs to get in an attacking coach as he can't coach attack.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on April 12, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
If he's going to stay he needs to get in an attacking coach as he can't coach attack.
Parker's team attacks. They're just not very good at it and that's because most of the attacking players at his disposal are out of their depth in the Premier League.
Quote from: Whitestone on April 12, 2021, 02:16:11 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on April 12, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
If he's going to stay he needs to get in an attacking coach as he can't coach attack.
Parker's team attacks. They're just not very good at it and that's because most of the attacking players at his disposal are out of their depth in the Premier League.
Are they no good because they're bad players or bad coaching? Certainly they're profligate in front of goal but we badly lack creativity and rarely look that dangerous.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on April 12, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on April 12, 2021, 02:16:11 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on April 12, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
If he's going to stay he needs to get in an attacking coach as he can't coach attack.
Parker's team attacks. They're just not very good at it and that's because most of the attacking players at his disposal are out of their depth in the Premier League.
Are they no good because they're bad players or bad coaching? Certainly they're profligate in front of goal but we badly lack creativity and rarely look that dangerous.
+1.
Yes the players lack a bit of quality and composure but there's never any more than 3 players streaming forward, we're outnumbered every time we go forward. They need more support from midfield and overlapping full backs but that's rarer than hens' teeth.
Parker said his motivation is "fear of failure" !!
For me the fear of failure statement suggests he knows he is out of his depth.
The fear of drowning doesnt make you a good swimmer but you will anything required to keep your head above water.
While we have a manager with that mind set I don't expect much progress on the entertainment front .
Odds of sack:
Hodgson 11/4
Parker 12/1??
The really silly side of this is that we wouldn't be quite so reticent about attacking if we were regularly scoring. The problem is that the whole side seems to know the ball is going to come straight back in their direction with no time for celebration. I also agree with the suggestion that Parker shouldn't fear failure but should instead crave competition and bravery.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on April 12, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on April 12, 2021, 02:16:11 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on April 12, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
If he's going to stay he needs to get in an attacking coach as he can't coach attack.
Parker's team attacks. They're just not very good at it and that's because most of the attacking players at his disposal are out of their depth in the Premier League.
Are they no good because they're bad players or bad coaching? Certainly they're profligate in front of goal but we badly lack creativity and rarely look that dangerous.
It's certainly a bit of both IMO.
A better manager would have got a lot more out of our squad and we wouldn't be 18th or struggling for survival.
Quote from: blingo on April 12, 2021, 06:28:31 PM
A better manager would have got a lot more out of our squad and we wouldn't be 18th or struggling for survival.
That unfortunately is something we will never know, a new manager does not always equal a better team.
Quote from: alfie on April 12, 2021, 07:59:12 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on April 11, 2021, 08:45:01 PM
I can't help but feel that Parker is the coach the players want, but not the coach they need. They need to be chewed out when they screw up, and need to lose their spots. Based on his interviews, and the constant dialogue on the sidelines with Wells, it just seems so heavily based on "developing players". We're not getting results, but we're developing players. Forget that - we need results. This is just a gut feeling from a former college player.
Interviews he gives after games is vastly different to what he says behind closed doors.
It's just a gut feeling, and that's pretty much what all of us can go off of. From what I've seen of Parker, when he interviews, he's sending a message to his team as well as supporters. When a manager talks about developing players as much as he does, it definitely raises some flags for concern. These are professional players, it's understood they are always developing, why is there a need to mention it in every other interview? To me, that's a manager who is trying to motivate but can instead over-coach.
To those who say our attackers or team quality not good enough, let's compare us to Leeds for example, start of the season who was the better prospect of scoring goals Patrick Bamford or Mitro?
Bieslsa has got the best out of Bamford and improved him as a player, Mitro has had the life sucked out of him.
Good coaches improve players, can anyone give an example of a player Parker has improved in his full two seasons in charge. I can think of 1 and only 1 - Harrison Reed Other than that player after player not living up to expectations or starting brightly and slowly form drops like a stone.
At some point you have to think there is a constant in all of this?
Quote from: Worcesterwhite on April 12, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
To those who say our attackers or team quality not good enough, let's compare us to Leeds for example, start of the season who was the better prospect of scoring goals Patrick Bamford or Mitro?
Bieslsa has got the best out of Bamford and improved him as a player, Mitro has had the life sucked out of him.
Good coaches improve players, can anyone give an example of a player Parker has improved in his full two seasons in charge. I can think of 1 and only 1 - Harrison Reed Other than that player after player not living up to expectations or starting brightly and slowly form drops like a stone.
At some point you have to think there is a constant in all of this?
I think Odoi looked better this year
One more season. A rebuild.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 12, 2021, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: Arthur on April 12, 2021, 01:22:24 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
May I ask how I might know whether a club has an ideology? How would I tell? What would I see? And, importantly, how would having an ideology prevent us from 'making the same mistakes' - whatever these are. (You give no clue.)
Might I also ask: Roughly speaking, how many clubs - especially outside of the Premier League - have an ideology? And how do different clubs' ideologies vary? Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide some examples.
Yep... I'll play - have a look at Porto...what is there ideology...get un-named/un-heard of talent into the team on a regular basis, sell at a fat profit - while year after year playing a similar style of successful football... everybody within the club is part of that ideology.... Ajax do the same, but usually through youth, but whoever manages them plays the Ajax way ..... Prem league....ManC get the best at any cost, and improve them...reasonably new stadium, fantastic new training facilities while helping the local community, wanted to be recognised globally & have done so.... Hotspuds, new stadium, new training facilities - attract reasonable to good player's from the prem & around the world to turn into profit....with Southampton, Spuds nicked the old Manager & most of the youth staff to nick Southampton's successful youth programs
Thank you for your reply. I shall respond to the information you have provided. It is, however, a slight disappointment that you ducked the question as to what are 'the same mistakes' we keep making and how an ideology would put a stop to these.
From what you tell me, a club with an ideology might do some or all of the following: sell players for a decent profit; play the same style of football whomever is their manager; run a good youth programme; upgrade its stadium and training facilities; help its local community; spend whatever it takes to bring in the best players.
Based on your criteria, the features of an identifiable ideology are present at Fulham:
- In recent seasons, we've sold Roberts to Manchester City, Sessegnon to Spurs and Elliot to Liverpool - all under the age of 20.
- The playing style under both Jokanovic and Parker has been to play out from the back. In the Championship, moreover, both emphasised the importance of retaining possession as a means to dictating the play.
- Our Academy is classed at the highest grade. (And I gather our current U-18 side are the best in the southern half of England.)
- We are in the process of building a magnificent new stand and have invested in improved training facilities at Motspur Park, including a recently built indoor facility.
- Through the respected 'Fulham Foundation', the Club invests in numerous projects and initiatives that help the local community.
- While FFP prohibits us from spending the sums of money that clubs such as Manchester City do, in 2018, we nonetheless became the first promoted club to spend £100M on new players.
As far as I can see, only a small number clubs who were, when Jokanovic was appointed in December 2015, like us, outside of the Premier League - or have been outside since - can lay claim to have either matched us or done better than us: possibly some of Wolves, Villa, Brighton, Burnley, Bournemouth, Norwich or Leeds.
It appears as if the Club has done better than most others. Not necessarily perfect, but definitely better than many clubs of similar standing. It is, perhaps, somewhat ironic, then, that, having laid out your ideological facets, it seems you fail to see the extent to which the Club is implementing them.
Quote from: Arthur on April 13, 2021, 05:45:11 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 12, 2021, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: Arthur on April 12, 2021, 01:22:24 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 11, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
To me it's not a Mr Parker problem.... it's the whole club's ideology, in that there isn't one....or doesn't appear to be one - we keep making the same mistakes...... somebody at the top has to have clear vision & dedication to the day to day and future direction of the club.....at the moment I haven't got a clue what the club are after
May I ask how I might know whether a club has an ideology? How would I tell? What would I see? And, importantly, how would having an ideology prevent us from 'making the same mistakes' - whatever these are. (You give no clue.)
Might I also ask: Roughly speaking, how many clubs - especially outside of the Premier League - have an ideology? And how do different clubs' ideologies vary? Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide some examples.
Yep... I'll play - have a look at Porto...what is there ideology...get un-named/un-heard of talent into the team on a regular basis, sell at a fat profit - while year after year playing a similar style of successful football... everybody within the club is part of that ideology.... Ajax do the same, but usually through youth, but whoever manages them plays the Ajax way ..... Prem league....ManC get the best at any cost, and improve them...reasonably new stadium, fantastic new training facilities while helping the local community, wanted to be recognised globally & have done so.... Hotspuds, new stadium, new training facilities - attract reasonable to good player's from the prem & around the world to turn into profit....with Southampton, Spuds nicked the old Manager & most of the youth staff to nick Southampton's successful youth programs
Thank you for your reply. I shall respond to the information you have provided. It is, however, a slight disappointment that you ducked the question as to what are 'the same mistakes' we keep making and how an ideology would put a stop to these.
From what you tell me, a club with an ideology might do some or all of the following: sell players for a decent profit; play the same style of football whomever is their manager; run a good youth programme; upgrade its stadium and training facilities; help its local community; spend whatever it takes to bring in the best players.
Based on your criteria, the features of an identifiable ideology are present at Fulham:
- In recent seasons, we've sold Roberts to Manchester City, Sessegnon to Spurs and Elliot to Liverpool - all under the age of 20.
- The playing style under both Jokanovic and Parker has been to play out from the back. In the Championship, moreover, both emphasised the importance of retaining possession as a means to dictating the play.
- Our Academy is classed at the highest grade. (And I gather our current U-18 side are the best in the southern half of England.)
- We are in the process of building a magnificent new stand and have invested in improved training facilities at Motspur Park, including a recently built indoor facility.
- Through the respected 'Fulham Foundation', the Club invests in numerous projects and initiatives that help the local community.
- While FFP prohibits us from spending the sums of money that clubs such as Manchester City do, in 2018, we nonetheless became the first promoted club to spend £100M on new players.
As far as I can see, only a small number clubs who were, when Jokanovic was appointed in December 2015, like us, outside of the Premier League - or have been outside since - can lay claim to have either matched us or done better than us: possibly some of Wolves, Villa, Brighton, Burnley, Bournemouth, Norwich or Leeds.
It appears as if the Club has done better than most others. Not necessarily perfect, but definitely better than many clubs of similar standing. It is, perhaps, somewhat ironic, then, that, having laid out your ideological facets, it seems you fail to see the extent to which the Club is implementing them.
Well said. Wolves, Villa and Leeds are no doubt better than us, one may have cheated FFP, one has a star academy player and Leeds has a lot more sponsorship than us. Other than Brighton beat Newcastle twice and Burnley beat Palace twice, there is little difference between us, Brighton and Burnley. Bournemouth and Norwich are also no better than us.
In other words, no team has really got far ahead of FFC that doesn't have a historical advantage over us. If we had 6 more points, which equals 3 goals missed in critical games, and I believe we would have stayed up.
Quote from: Worcesterwhite on April 12, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
To those who say our attackers or team quality not good enough, let's compare us to Leeds for example, start of the season who was the better prospect of scoring goals Patrick Bamford or Mitro?
Bieslsa has got the best out of Bamford and improved him as a player, Mitro has had the life sucked out of him.
Good coaches improve players, can anyone give an example of a player Parker has improved in his full two seasons in charge. I can think of 1 and only 1 - Harrison Reed Other than that player after player not living up to expectations or starting brightly and slowly form drops like a stone.
At some point you have to think there is a constant in all of this?
I think you make a truly substantive comment about coaching ability. The differences are always around very fine margins simply because adjustments have to be the right ones before they begin to show any improvment at all. In human terms true teachers adapt methods according to individual students but in whole class lectures they try to make them interesting to all students. A good teacher is all things to all students and a personal counsel to every individual. Not every teacher is good with both class and individual. Not every student is easy to teach.
Likewise a football coach has the squad and the individual and must be better than passable at both. A player is professional and that implies ability to be coached. The results are observable and confirm themselves with time. One better game by one player doesn't justify anything other than player A had one better game, but if the improvements continue then we can say there is a good influence at work. It is all about fine lines and margins rather in the order of F1 cars where tenths of a second lap times splits the winners from the losers. But we, the audience, always know who wins and maybe even appreciate why the winner won.
Football is played on a pitch and coaches should be fully supported in every way by both the boardroom and the whole administration within a club.
Quote from: Worcesterwhite on April 12, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
To those who say our attackers or team quality not good enough, let's compare us to Leeds for example, start of the season who was the better prospect of scoring goals Patrick Bamford or Mitro?
Bieslsa has got the best out of Bamford and improved him as a player, Mitro has had the life sucked out of him.
Good coaches improve players, can anyone give an example of a player Parker has improved in his full two seasons in charge. I can think of 1 and only 1 - Harrison Reed Other than that player after player not living up to expectations or starting brightly and slowly form drops like a stone.
At some point you have to think there is a constant in all of this?
It's unfair to compare Parker to Bielsa. Bielsa clearly one of the greats of all time by the way other managers praise him. Parker is in his 2nd full year of management. He could do better, but there is no guarantee that a new manager would do better.
Quote from: Robbie on April 12, 2021, 09:01:12 PM
One more season. A rebuild.
I agree. Let him build a squad that caters to him, and see how he does. Last season we just bought everyone without any real thought. This season was masked over with loans.
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on April 13, 2021, 09:25:43 AM
Quote from: Robbie on April 12, 2021, 09:01:12 PM
One more season. A rebuild.
I agree. Let him build a squad that caters to him, and see how he does. Last season we just bought everyone without any real thought. This season was masked over with loans.
No there was thought, Parker had a say in all the transfer in, TK didnt just go out and buy players, they had recruitment meetings Parker had an input, he wanted the defence sorted he got it sorted he wants players that can keep the ball that's what the team does. This is Parker ball all about possession if we have it the other team can't score hope to nick a 1-0 win, been like that last season as well. Why anyone wants to keep the borefest going is beyond me
I see a lot of good things about Parker as our manager but nothing a very good assistant manager wouldn't bring to the club except maybe his sartorial style.
I believe he see's in his mind what he want the players to achieve e.g. play without fear and improve their decison making etc I even think he wants them to play with a more attacking approach e.g. getting more players in danger areas and delivering the ball earlier.
But for all his people skills, decency and football knowledge he lacks the spark to create something of beauty, not many managers or coaches do and his teams reflect his style of playing, discipline, commitment and some ability but that's not enough to win PL games these days.
Even Burnley have a plan that's affective enough times a season to achieve their aim while Parkers tactics are generally effective in only 2 thirds of the pitch at best.
Will he develop his tactics and ability to coach players to a higher level?
Regardless of if we survive or not, he needs to use what he's done so far as a base level to build a more expansive winning mentality or he is just keeping the seat warm until the next incumbent due later next season!
Quote from: Nero on April 13, 2021, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on April 13, 2021, 09:25:43 AM
Quote from: Robbie on April 12, 2021, 09:01:12 PM
One more season. A rebuild.
I agree. Let him build a squad that caters to him, and see how he does. Last season we just bought everyone without any real thought. This season was masked over with loans.
No there was thought, Parker had a say in all the transfer in, TK didnt just go out and buy players, they had recruitment meetings Parker had an input, he wanted the defence sorted he got it sorted he wants players that can keep the ball that's what the team does. This is Parker ball all about possession if we have it the other team can't score hope to nick a 1-0 win, been like that last season as well. Why anyone wants to keep the borefest going is beyond me
You think Parker didn't want attackers too? Because we left our business so late, we were left with no choice.
Parker ball has changed since last season. Dramatically so. We are no longer a possession for possession sake based team. We create good chances every game, it is finishing that's costing him.
It comes down to which direction we want the club to be heading. Continuity or change ? Parker has shown he can be adaptable and can organise a defence ,as well as bouncing back time and again when the chips have been down. The real question for me is how the table would look now if our strike force was even in the average bracket in this division. Wewould have amassed alot more points this season with better attacking options . Loftus cheek ,Cavaleiro ,Mitrovic have been a huge disappointment. BDR and Lookman have done ok ,but we simply dont have enough premier league quality in attacking areas. IMO.
we have the basis of a decent defensive unit even without our loan players and i think Scott deserves huge credit for developing Robinson,harrison reed and aderbyio in particular which few would have thought could cut it consistantly in the Pl.
Lets keep Parker and back him with the players we need.
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on April 13, 2021, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: Nero on April 13, 2021, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on April 13, 2021, 09:25:43 AM
Quote from: Robbie on April 12, 2021, 09:01:12 PM
One more season. A rebuild.
I agree. Let him build a squad that caters to him, and see how he does. Last season we just bought everyone without any real thought. This season was masked over with loans.
No there was thought, Parker had a say in all the transfer in, TK didnt just go out and buy players, they had recruitment meetings Parker had an input, he wanted the defence sorted he got it sorted he wants players that can keep the ball that's what the team does. This is Parker ball all about possession if we have it the other team can't score hope to nick a 1-0 win, been like that last season as well. Why anyone wants to keep the borefest going is beyond me
You think Parker didn't want attackers too? Because we left our business so late, we were left with no choice.
Parker ball has changed since last season. Dramatically so. We are no longer a possession for possession sake based team. We create good chances every game, it is finishing that's costing him.
Agree with your points Facts.
Parker just said that defenders was the most immediate requirement, in the short time available, not that we didn't need strikers too.
And he was right, our new, better defenders, helped stop us becoming adrift. Parker wanted strikers in Jan, but it proved hard to get anyone, though we managed to sign Maja.
We have been unlucky with converting chances we've created in nearly every game. IF they start going in, could save us.
Bobby Robson.
Our problems lie in midfield and wingers. Couple that with an inexperienced manager and you have relegation. Be honest, we were darned lucky to go up after a lot of really bad performances last season.
Sorry can't think of a reason why I would keep him apart from not shelling out the few million in compensation he would be due.
91 league and playoff games he's managed and in one way or another have watched almost all of them fully.
For a start 101 goals in all those games is shocking really. (1.1 per game) 111 against (1.21) 47% of all goals for Fulham
For comparison:
Slav: 131 games 205 goals (1.56) 174 against (1.32) 54% of all goals for Fulham
Symons 55 games 85 goals for (1.54) 93 against (1.69) 47% of all goals for Fulham
He has shown moments (few) of good coaching and ideas but very easy to read his tactics on the whole.
His way of holding out for the one goal leads for last 10 mins of games was successful result wise, but dig deeper and you see we rode our luck big time and it was very much back to the wall defending at times.
This year its keep it tight and hope for something. Patterns of play attacking wise are missing.
I know I've never been a fan of his since he joined but I have given him the benefit of the doubt especially after the 4 wasted games at the start of the season. But too many times we have blown chances, not turned up, started flat and just not been good enough tactically. I don't see anything that tells me he will change and for that reason if we go down, I wont bat an eyelid if he goes.
Not only that but the rubbish he spouts at press conferences is increasingly at odds with what we see.
I suspect this is his mentor coaching him in the hope of shining his reputation as a 'thinking young manager'.
Why Keep Scott Parker?
Continuity/stability
I'm for keeping SP on board for at least another 2-3 years, regardless which league we find ourselves in......
Quote from: WindyCity on April 13, 2021, 04:20:36 PM
Why Keep Scott Parker?
Continuity/stability
I'm for keeping SP on board for at least another 2-3 years, regardless which league we find ourselves in......
And if we get relegated to L1 next season would you still be on board with SP?
Quote from: FFC In Oz on April 13, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on April 13, 2021, 04:20:36 PM
Why Keep Scott Parker?
Continuity/stability
I'm for keeping SP on board for at least another 2-3 years, regardless which league we find ourselves in......
And if we get relegated to L1 next season would you still be on board with SP?
Admittedly, if that dreadful event takes place, I might have to re-evaluate my position in this matter. Not saying SP sacking for sure, but need to see what he was given to play with, etc.....
Quote from: WindyCity on April 13, 2021, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: FFC In Oz on April 13, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on April 13, 2021, 04:20:36 PM
Why Keep Scott Parker?
Continuity/stability
I'm for keeping SP on board for at least another 2-3 years, regardless which league we find ourselves in......
And if we get relegated to L1 next season would you still be on board with SP?
Admittedly, if that dreadful event takes place, I might have to re-evaluate my position in this matter. Not saying SP sacking for sure, but need to see what he was given to play with, etc.....
I know it's an extreme situation, but football is a very fickle business.
If we keep SP around I would like to see some changes to his backroom staff, Wells seems to be the #2 judging by how much more he seems to be conversing with Scott, and he's hardly an experienced head.
Quote from: blingo on April 13, 2021, 12:00:07 PM
Our problems lie in midfield and wingers. Couple that with an inexperienced manager and you have relegation. Be honest, we were darned lucky to go up after a lot of really bad performances last season.
And that is why sadly Scotty has to go
Excellent content on this thread! Some great posts.
Quote from: blingo on April 13, 2021, 12:00:07 PM
Our problems lie in midfield and wingers. Couple that with an inexperienced manager and you have relegation. Be honest, we were darned lucky to go up after a lot of really bad performances last season.
Totally disagree with that ! Lucky to go up ? Do me a favour Blingo ,youve been reading too many of your own posts !!
There are a couple of reasons why I would consider keeping Parker:
He has never really been given a fair chance IMO. Our transfer strategy of "too little and too late" means we start our season in October and effectively have our preseason when other clubs have started collecting points. Replacing Parker probably won't change this. Sacking yet another head coach doesn't make much sense to me unless we get someone successful with lots of experience and I honestly can't see anyone like that wanting to join us under the current cirumstances.
Parker will probably improve when he gets more experience. He is still learning and we already know he is capable of getting us promoted.
On the other hand, the results have been disappointing. Even worse, Parkerball is boring to watch. That's the worst part for me. I don't mind another season in the Championship but I don't look forward to another season of Parkerball. Even last season when we were promoted I didn't really enjoy watching Fulham except for a couple of games (playoffs, Millwall?, ???). We were rubbish pre-lockdown and I honestly can't see us getting promoted again next season (IF we're relegated, there is still hope!).
So yeah, I think I've finally joined the Parker Out crowd but I don't think it will do us much good unless we also sort out the TK situation. He can keep all his fancy titles for all I care but we need someone who will do the job a DoF is SUPPOSED to do. Someone who is present at the club, qualified for the job and not doing it part time from across the Atlantic. We can't just keep sacking head coaches to paper over the cracks.
Quote from: MJG on April 13, 2021, 12:10:09 PM
Sorry can't think of a reason why I would keep him apart from not shelling out the few million in compensation he would be due.
91 league and playoff games he's managed and in one way or another have watched almost all of them fully.
For a start 101 goals in all those games is shocking really. (1.1 per game) 111 against (1.21) 47% of all goals for Fulham
For comparison:
Slav: 131 games 205 goals (1.56) 174 against (1.32) 54% of all goals for Fulham
Symons 55 games 85 goals for (1.54) 93 against (1.69) 47% of all goals for Fulham
He has shown moments (few) of good coaching and ideas but very easy to read his tactics on the whole.
His way of holding out for the one goal leads for last 10 mins of games was successful result wise, but dig deeper and you see we rode our luck big time and it was very much back to the wall defending at times.
This year its keep it tight and hope for something. Patterns of play attacking wise are missing.
I know I've never been a fan of his since he joined but I have given him the benefit of the doubt especially after the 4 wasted games at the start of the season. But too many times we have blown chances, not turned up, started flat and just not been good enough tactically. I don't see anything that tells me he will change and for that reason if we go down, I wont bat an eyelid if he goes.
A couple of really good points in this post:
1) Attacking pattern of play - I agree, it's very haphazard and stagnant, there's no continuity and fluidity.
2) I agree he's had decent moments and glimpses of ability, but for the most part, as you point out, we are very easy to read and simple to defend against. There's no complexity in our play at all
Quote from: colinwhite on April 14, 2021, 05:57:39 AM
Quote from: blingo on April 13, 2021, 12:00:07 PM
Our problems lie in midfield and wingers. Couple that with an inexperienced manager and you have relegation. Be honest, we were darned lucky to go up after a lot of really bad performances last season.
Totally disagree with that ! Lucky to go up ? Do me a favour Blingo ,youve been reading too many of your own posts !!
You really think we were not lucky to go up Colin? You think our midfielders and wingers are performing? If affirmative, then why are we in the position we are in in the league? Blingo is the supreme optimist, look back to the blingo lighthouse scale, but even I can see when something is drastically wrong. Rose tinted specks and dreaming come to mind. SP and TK are destroying everything good that SK is doing. Watching Fulham is a living nightmare right now and it's not the players, it's the coach and his useless tactics.
Look Parker has not just been bad this year. If you want evidence of his lack of management ability look to last season. We had a good squad compared to other teams but we played staid, defensive footie, never really putting a game to bed and with neither style nor great skill. And that was with StefJo and Cairney who were the best midfielders in the league.And Mitro the best striker.
His subbing was always suspect and nervous and he was too quick to defend deep.
This year all the same failures and no battle plan for scoring.
Also to be fair he had the ear of TK and a direct communication path...he needed to demand additional strikers to Lookman, not allow Kebano and AK 47 to leave, and play with more men upfield. But for me just the selection policy regarding Cav and RLC is enough to condemn him. They were both useless all year. Look at the stats.
So he decided to play with nine men, not Khan and not anyone else. He chose those two terrible members of the squad, week in and week out.They have not contributed anything of note.Two outfield goals between them in 60 matches is not great by any standards.
Quote from: WindyCity on April 13, 2021, 04:20:36 PM
Why Keep Scott Parker?
Continuity/stability
I'm for keeping SP on board for at least another 2-3 years, regardless which league we find ourselves in......
You want to watch that style of football for another 2 to 3 years?
There's an article that Tottenham are monitoring Parker, they might 'headhunt' him.
I'd keep Parker unless we can get Eddie Howe, then it's a no brainer. I don't think he'd manage us in the Champ though
I suppose it all depends on how you judge players. We have created plenty of chances but havent finished teams off. I put that down to lack of quality at this level and i dont believe that would have made much difference whoever the manager was. Lets see how it pans out. Some of the criticism of Parker is just silly. Hes not perfect by any means but he got us promoted and that is the main stat to look at. We are a mistaken red card /pen at newcastle ,a penalty miss from Lookman and a hitting the post from BDR inthe first half against WBA away from not being in the bottom 3.
Then we wouldnt even be having this debate.
compare the strike force we have now with Roys great escape side. Macbride,Kamara,Dempsey and Nevland , would have scored goals in our present side if you ask me!
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
Quote from: rebel on April 14, 2021, 11:33:18 AM
There's an article that Tottenham are monitoring Parker, they might 'headhunt' him.
Good. Let them have him.
I personally think the article is cr@p but if somehow he does end up there he won't last more than 6 months.
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
Quote from: Lambo on April 14, 2021, 10:36:40 AM
Quote from: WindyCity on April 13, 2021, 04:20:36 PM
Why Keep Scott Parker?
Continuity/stability
I'm for keeping SP on board for at least another 2-3 years, regardless which league we find ourselves in......
You want to watch that style of football for another 2 to 3 years?
My friend, I'll be happy to watch any style of football as long as it produces 3 point results and promotion/survival in top flight. I'm not so much about the "artistic". I'm all about "results" and winning.
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
Agree.
Almost every time we go forward it's reliant on Lookman to create something or from a long Andersen diagonal (which other teams have cottoned on to)
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Parkerball ?,what is that? We have sit back and been direct in many games this season,so what exactly do you mean ?
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
I find it interesting to compare the apparent undying love on this site for Jokanovic and the dislike of Parker. Jokanovic , an experienced manager, who managed to get us into the Premiership after two attempts via the play offs and failed miserably in the top flight, leading to his sacking, compared to Parker, a novice manager, who got us into the Premiership at his first attempt. Admittedly Parker's results in the top flight have been disappointing, but the team has improved in certain areas and he seems to have the respect of his players. Unfortunately he has strengthened the defence at the cost of improving the attacking options where he is saddled with Mitrovic who is patently not good enough for the Premiership, having played under four managers and none of them have managed to get a consistent tune out of him. The Premiership is hard and many far more experienced than Parker have failed. I would stick with him, feeling pretty confident he would get us promoted again.
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
Sorry Blingo, I respect your opinions but on this I think you are mistaken mate, though you are right, you need to stop drinking whatever you are as it's affecting your ability mate. As for lucky to get promoted - as 'lucky' as we were under Slav you mean? Getting promoted via playoffs tends to reduce the luck variable to a minimum, it's not like it's a one-game lucky win is it?
Some people hanker for us to bring Slav back, but the records of Slav and Scotty, where results matter (e.g. getting promoted and staying there) are little different. I don't look upon SP as anything like the finished article as Prem coaches go, I had more faith in Slav to that point, but neither do I see any point in getting rid at this juncture. Then again, I didn't fully understand why SK jumped early in showing Slav the door tbh, so what do I know?
Quote from: Gezza on April 14, 2021, 08:12:02 PM
I find it interesting to compare the apparent undying love on this site for Jokanovic and the dislike of Parker. Jokanovic , an experienced manager, who managed to get us into the Premiership after two attempts via the play offs and failed miserably in the top flight, leading to his sacking, compared to Parker, a novice manager, who got us into the Premiership at his first attempt. Admittedly Parker's results in the top flight have been disappointing, but the team has improved in certain areas and he seems to have the respect of his players. Unfortunately he has strengthened the defence at the cost of improving the attacking options where he is saddled with Mitrovic who is patently not good enough for the Premiership, having played under four managers and none of them have managed to get a consistent tune out of him. The Premiership is hard and many far more experienced than Parker have failed. I would stick with him, feeling pretty confident he would get us promoted again.
A decent post
Quote from: Logicalman on April 14, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
Sorry Blingo, I respect your opinions but on this I think you are mistaken mate, though you are right, you need to stop drinking whatever you are as it's affecting your ability mate. As for lucky to get promoted - as 'lucky' as we were under Slav you mean? Getting promoted via playoffs tends to reduce the luck variable to a minimum, it's not like it's a one-game lucky win is it?
Some people hanker for us to bring Slav back, but the records of Slav and Scotty, where results matter (e.g. getting promoted and staying there) are little different. I don't look upon SP as anything like the finished article as Prem coaches go, I had more faith in Slav to that point, but neither do I see any point in getting rid at this juncture. Then again, I didn't fully understand why SK jumped early in showing Slav the door tbh, so what do I know?
Ahhhh, Mr Logical, a 12 year old Macallan would not do you any harm lol. Personally I don't think we should bring back Slav, and I fail to see where SP is doing us any favours. He is using us to learn his trade before he jumps ship to another club.
We were very lucky to get promoted sir, 4th in the table and how we got there on some of that seasons performances I will never know. We got through in extra time and tbh and as much as I hate to say it, Brentford deserved it more than we did. Will we come straight back up? I don't think it will be anywhere near as easy as some seem to think on here. I'll keep the Macallan on hold for you, and as you say, in all honesty, what do I know? It's all guess work and assumption from where we sit
Scotty has to go for one reason:
Why we keep attempting to play from the back when we evidently can't!!!
Given his managerial career has just got under way, he's not done badly at all. In fact he's achieved things more seasoned managers haven't.
Twice now we've gained promotion via the play offs and it's been a bit of a disaster.
He more than anyone knows next time it's got to be an automatic spot. So, he's going to have to have a different mindset from the outset. We go for wins a draw is as bad if not worse than a loss.
I say we stick with SP.
Quote from: Gezza on April 14, 2021, 08:12:02 PM
I find it interesting to compare the apparent undying love on this site for Jokanovic and the dislike of Parker. Jokanovic , an experienced manager, who managed to get us into the Premiership after two attempts via the play offs and failed miserably in the top flight, leading to his sacking, compared to Parker, a novice manager, who got us into the Premiership at his first attempt. Admittedly Parker's results in the top flight have been disappointing, but the team has improved in certain areas and he seems to have the respect of his players. Unfortunately he has strengthened the defence at the cost of improving the attacking options where he is saddled with Mitrovic who is patently not good enough for the Premiership, having played under four managers and none of them have managed to get a consistent tune out of him. The Premiership is hard and many far more experienced than Parker have failed. I would stick with him, feeling pretty confident he would get us promoted again.
All fans want their team to win, but for some of us the performance is as important as the result.
It might have taken Jokanovic two years to lead us to the Premier League, rather than taking us straight up like Parker did, but those two years were filled with entertaining and attacking football rather than the dull, monotonous football we had to watch most of last season. I respect that this might mean nothing to you, but as I said for others it is important and that's the main reason of this site's undying love for Jokanovic.
Also, it's interesting if not unfair to compare Jokanovic and Parker in the Premier League. Jokanovic definitely didn't do well when we last got promoted, but do you think that 12 games are enough for us to judge him? Even so, Jokanovic managed 5 points after the first 12 games when he got fired - Parker managed 8 points after 12 games this year. Not really much there, is it?
All Jokanovic lovers on this site do not expect that he will come back - we know that ship has sailed. However, it feels rather harsh to read how much better than Jokanovic Parker is - in my opinion. Each to their own, of course - someone else wrote today or yesterday that Scott Parker is the best managed we have had since Roy Hodgson, so what do I know? :022:
I'd like to see Parker stay in the knowledge that he has gained experience and improved, and also in the hope that last season's 'Parkerball' has been abandoned. I really hope he does well as he will develop into excellent manager over time. On the Joka v Parker point, Joka had a poorer squad and only really got a proper striker late in our promotion season. Prior to that he had to make so with the likes of Chris Martin and AK47. Joka also made players better. Ream, Sess, McDonald to name a few improved under him. I haven't seen players become better in the same way under Parker (of course there is the odd exception). Last season most players deteriorated throughout the season. Cav, Knoackaert, Cairney to name a few should have been excellent at championship level, but consistently underperformed for Parker.
As I said, I hope he is better in championship as the squad has the potential to bounce back.
There's a little bit of the starry-eyed about Jokanovic, with quotes such as " those two years were filled with entertaining and attacking football". Not for the first part of his tenure, when we finished 20th in the season he took over half way through, and then struggled in the first half of each of the following seasons. I remember a huge amount of moaning during the poor runs of results about how bad we were, especially as an attacking force. People think solely about the superb second half of the promotion campaign, aided considerably by the arrival of a fit and motivated Mitrovic. Jokanovic had good and bad times with us.
Scott Parker is capable of organising a better defence than the 2nd half of 17/18, which only conceed 17 goals in 23 games (eg 14-16 goals). If Tony Khan can convince Mitrovic to stay, then there are 8-14 goals per half season. We don't need much from our attacking midfielders and wingers, to go up.
Most importantly going up with a solid and stable defence is the best preparation for the premier league. Scott Parker has coached our defence brilliantly (or at least well) this season, but it was one season too late, the defence needs to be coached in the championship and TK add a little quality on promotion (ie Areola and Anderson).
Quote from: 3 Cherries on April 14, 2021, 09:49:28 PM
Scotty has to go for one reason:
Why we keep attempting to play from the back when we evidently can't!!!
since Andersen and Tosin have come in we have been much more direct from the back,often by passing the midfield .Every team in the Pl plays out from the back . Have you actually been watching any of our games ?
There is so much inconsistency in this thread it is like reading the thoughts of Chairmans Khan & Khan!
One little example for the TK and Yo-Yo Fans ... if that was his policy all along then why sack anyone who was capable of gaining promoting one season and relegation the very next. Results in the PL wouldn't matter at all but building a team capable of storming the Championship would. Seems TK is capable of neither so why is he in post. Just a bit of very simple logic for you guys.
There are players in the English football league who would play in either or both the PL and Championship and capable of meeting the needs of both. Seeking them out is the job of recruiters, scouts, networks simply by studying form and asking questions that are within the rules of the game and they help clubs build resilient squads that can deal wih success and failure. Khan & Khan don't know how to do that - period.
Quote from: Plodder on April 15, 2021, 12:28:30 AM
There's a little bit of the starry-eyed about Jokanovic, with quotes such as " those two years were filled with entertaining and attacking football". Not for the first part of his tenure, when we finished 20th in the season he took over half way through, and then struggled in the first half of each of the following seasons. I remember a huge amount of moaning during the poor runs of results about how bad we were, especially as an attacking force. People think solely about the superb second half of the promotion campaign, aided considerably by the arrival of a fit and motivated Mitrovic. Jokanovic had good and bad times with us.
I agree, you are so right.
His first season he arrived late but just in time to avoid relegation. The second we got to the play offs with a half baked squad and the third we gained promotion with a 23 game unbeaten run despite only having one forward for half a season.
He was then sabotaged with a ridiculously unbalanced sqaud that none of three managers coped with.
I would say slav was a genius. If he would have been 'properly' baked we would be in season 3 looking forward to season four in the prem.
I think Slav had much better dress sense than Scotty
He oozed natural flair which reflected in our play (when we played well)
Scotty, for all my admiration of his emotional and visceral utterances, still recall that jacket he borrowed from the boiler lagging and after we won, he wore the same jacket again and we lost!
Slav would not be pinning his tactics on what luck a particular jacket might bring
Quote from: Plodder on April 15, 2021, 12:28:30 AM
There's a little bit of the starry-eyed about Jokanovic, with quotes such as " those two years were filled with entertaining and attacking football". Not for the first part of his tenure, when we finished 20th in the season he took over half way through, and then struggled in the first half of each of the following seasons. I remember a huge amount of moaning during the poor runs of results about how bad we were, especially as an attacking force. People think solely about the superb second half of the promotion campaign, aided considerably by the arrival of a fit and motivated Mitrovic. Jokanovic had good and bad times with us.
The starry eyed recall is about the best. Jokanovic's second half season performances were largely necessary because he was dealing with changes - big changes and mainly losses of key players. As examples in both his first full season and his second full season he had no recognisable strikers until Martin arrived on deadline day first time and Mitrovic in January second time. In the second season he had no left back options because Malone was sold and not replaced. There are other examples where Khan Jnr failed his main man consistently. Jokanovic wasn't the Messiah but he is as close as FFC under Khan Jnr are going to get to one. IMO.
Quote from: toshes mate on April 15, 2021, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Plodder on April 15, 2021, 12:28:30 AM
There's a little bit of the starry-eyed about Jokanovic, with quotes such as " those two years were filled with entertaining and attacking football". Not for the first part of his tenure, when we finished 20th in the season he took over half way through, and then struggled in the first half of each of the following seasons. I remember a huge amount of moaning during the poor runs of results about how bad we were, especially as an attacking force. People think solely about the superb second half of the promotion campaign, aided considerably by the arrival of a fit and motivated Mitrovic. Jokanovic had good and bad times with us.
The starry eyed recall is about the best. Jokanovic's second half season performances were largely necessary because he was dealing with changes - big changes and mainly losses of key players. As examples in both his first full season and his second full season he had no recognisable strikers until Martin arrived on deadline day first time and Mitrovic in January second time. In the second season he had no left back options because Malone was sold and not replaced. There are other examples where Khan Jnr failed his main man consistently. Jokanovic wasn't the Messiah but he is as close as FFC under Khan Jnr are going to get to one. IMO.
Agree with a lot of this. We had a poor first half of the 2017/18 season where Malone was sold and the replacement was supposed to be Rafa Soares. Rui Fonte was recruited as the main striker as well. Apparently, CK reckoned the team should be built around Johan Mollo (I wonder what he's doing these days?).
Effectively, Jokanovic was operating with one hand tied behind his back due to the crazed assistant DOF running amok. Fortunately, Shad Khan got hands on and dismissed CK.
Two good signings in January (Targett and Mitrovic) helped give the side a much better balance.
Parker has shown his limitations from the moment he became our manager to having a team full of stars in the championship who simply underperformed massively. Our time to catch Newcastle was when they had their strikers out injured who have just come back in the last game or two.
Parker may come good further down the line but given the resources he has had even this season, a more experienced manager would've seen us stay up. Of that I have no doubt.
Howe would be an interesting one - so would benitez. Just goes to show how poor Parker is when you compare him with allardyce at West brom and what he's managed to do with a weaker set of players. If I had been in TKs position I'd have got rid of Parker in January and brought in allardyce then. Players like andersen, RLC would've been a dream for allardyce. They may not have enjoyed the football but staying up is more important after just being promoted. Whole thing is a monumental shambles given how obvious the solutions have been from the get go. TK learns lessons soo slowly. Had he paid anywhere near enough attention and had an informed opinion before taking on the DOF role which he hardly does properly it'd have taken 5 years maximum to go down the first time, rejig things and reestablish ourselves as a solid premiership side. It's closing in on ten instead. If I was shahid I'd be embarrassed- it's bordering on ineptitude of the highest order. We are constantly undermining ourselves under his ownership and TKs involvement. Get a good back line, don't have a good forward line or coach, get a good coach and don't give him a good back line but give him a good front line. How about soend money wisely across the entire structure of the first team and build a balanced squad.
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2021, 08:23:40 AM
Quote from: Plodder on April 15, 2021, 12:28:30 AM
There's a little bit of the starry-eyed about Jokanovic, with quotes such as " those two years were filled with entertaining and attacking football". Not for the first part of his tenure, when we finished 20th in the season he took over half way through, and then struggled in the first half of each of the following seasons. I remember a huge amount of moaning during the poor runs of results about how bad we were, especially as an attacking force. People think solely about the superb second half of the promotion campaign, aided considerably by the arrival of a fit and motivated Mitrovic. Jokanovic had good and bad times with us.
I agree, you are so right.
His first season he arrived late but just in time to avoid relegation. The second we got to the play offs with a half baked squad and the third we gained promotion with a 23 game unbeaten run despite only having one forward for half a season.
He was then sabotaged with a ridiculously unbalanced sqaud that none of three managers coped with.
I would say slav was a genius. If he would have been 'properly' baked we would be in season 3 looking forward to season four in the prem.
<<His first season he arrived late but just in time to avoid relegation>>. We were 18th when he took over with about half the season remaining. We finished 20th. The first half of the following season was undistinguished, to put it kindly.
He has rightly received praise for the superb second half of the promotion winning season, but his time here was not a permanent case of unalloyed or unparalleled success. One good half season, and one superb half season rightly deserves the praise he has been given - but "genius" is over the top. We have had plenty of better and more successful managers such as Tigana, Coleman, Hodgson, Macdonald and others (in my opinion, of course).
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on April 14, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
Sorry Blingo, I respect your opinions but on this I think you are mistaken mate, though you are right, you need to stop drinking whatever you are as it's affecting your ability mate. As for lucky to get promoted - as 'lucky' as we were under Slav you mean? Getting promoted via playoffs tends to reduce the luck variable to a minimum, it's not like it's a one-game lucky win is it?
Some people hanker for us to bring Slav back, but the records of Slav and Scotty, where results matter (e.g. getting promoted and staying there) are little different. I don't look upon SP as anything like the finished article as Prem coaches go, I had more faith in Slav to that point, but neither do I see any point in getting rid at this juncture. Then again, I didn't fully understand why SK jumped early in showing Slav the door tbh, so what do I know?
Ahhhh, Mr Logical, a 12 year old Macallan would not do you any harm lol. Personally I don't think we should bring back Slav, and I fail to see where SP is doing us any favours. He is using us to learn his trade before he jumps ship to another club.
We were very lucky to get promoted sir, 4th in the table and how we got there on some of that seasons performances I will never know. We got through in extra time and tbh and as much as I hate to say it, Brentford deserved it more than we did. Will we come straight back up? I don't think it will be anywhere near as easy as some seem to think on here. I'll keep the Macallan on hold for you, and as you say, in all honesty, what do I know? It's all guess work and assumption from where we sit
Ahh, Macallan, my buds are suitable whetted there, my good sir. Might have to break open that Walker Double Black I have snuggled in the pantry hiding behind the Gold Label reserve! Admittedly, not, perhaps, as refined as the Macallan.
We do agree on a couple of points, Slav is not for turning and SP is definitely using the club for a learning vehicle, though, being the soft touch I am, I tend to hope that he might just stay around a bit should he remain at Khans pleasure for more than another year - and actually learn at a steeper rate than he currently is.
You and I, as you said, like so many in this place, really have little idea as to what the near future holds for our club in management and whether TK might just decide his version of Greco-Roman is worth doing full time, though I believe the majority are resigned to our future being Fizzy league, notwithstanding Brucie could have a melt down and lose all his remaining games and SP might have a master plan tucked up that quilted jacket sleeve!
Quote from: Logicalman on April 16, 2021, 01:23:09 AM
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on April 14, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 14, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mullers OG on April 14, 2021, 11:52:57 AM
Best manager in my opinion we've had since RH. Given what he had to start with it's to his credit he managed to get promotion. Then he tightened up the defence and midfield. Up front much was always going to depend on Mitrovic. Whether he has been off form, injured and unfit or suffering from COVID is unknown. Apart from him there wasn't much else. Cavaleiro has had to play out of position, Kamara has thankfully been offloaded and Maja loaned. My one real regret this season is not being able to see Areola, Anderson and others at the Cottage.
Next season we have the nucleus of a decent side. Our main danger will be bigger clubs such as Spurs sniffing around trying to tempt Parker away. Too many clubs change managers too often. We need a bit of continuity.
I don't see your reasoning at all, however, i'd like two of whatever it is you are drinking. We were LUCKY to get promoted. A new manager would have kept us up if we had brought him in mid season. Parker ball is simply not acceptable at this level, we have no midfield threat at all. THAT is down to parker and his hopeless tactical play.
Sorry Blingo, I respect your opinions but on this I think you are mistaken mate, though you are right, you need to stop drinking whatever you are as it's affecting your ability mate. As for lucky to get promoted - as 'lucky' as we were under Slav you mean? Getting promoted via playoffs tends to reduce the luck variable to a minimum, it's not like it's a one-game lucky win is it?
Some people hanker for us to bring Slav back, but the records of Slav and Scotty, where results matter (e.g. getting promoted and staying there) are little different. I don't look upon SP as anything like the finished article as Prem coaches go, I had more faith in Slav to that point, but neither do I see any point in getting rid at this juncture. Then again, I didn't fully understand why SK jumped early in showing Slav the door tbh, so what do I know?
Ahhhh, Mr Logical, a 12 year old Macallan would not do you any harm lol. Personally I don't think we should bring back Slav, and I fail to see where SP is doing us any favours. He is using us to learn his trade before he jumps ship to another club.
We were very lucky to get promoted sir, 4th in the table and how we got there on some of that seasons performances I will never know. We got through in extra time and tbh and as much as I hate to say it, Brentford deserved it more than we did. Will we come straight back up? I don't think it will be anywhere near as easy as some seem to think on here. I'll keep the Macallan on hold for you, and as you say, in all honesty, what do I know? It's all guess work and assumption from where we sit
Ahh, Macallan, my buds are suitable whetted there, my good sir. Might have to break open that Walker Double Black I have snuggled in the pantry hiding behind the Gold Label reserve! Admittedly, not, perhaps, as refined as the Macallan.
We do agree on a couple of points, Slav is not for turning and SP is definitely using the club for a learning vehicle, though, being the soft touch I am, I tend to hope that he might just stay around a bit should he remain at Khans pleasure for more than another year - and actually learn at a steeper rate than he currently is.
You and I, as you said, like so many in this place, really have little idea as to what the near future holds for our club in management and whether TK might just decide his version of Greco-Roman is worth doing full time, though I believe the majority are resigned to our future being Fizzy league, notwithstanding Brucie could have a melt down and lose all his remaining games and SP might have a master plan tucked up that quilted jacket sleeve!
Hahahahaha Mr Logical, and if my aunty had a pair of nuts she'd be my uncle. Nice dream but we're going to have to wake up sooner or later.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 16, 2021, 10:18:04 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Having just looked at the article. The point it misses is, if you do not play forwards you are unlikely to score goals. That is down to Parker.
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 16, 2021, 10:18:04 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Having just looked at the article. The point it misses is, if you do not play forwards you are unlikely to score goals. That is down to Parker.
Which way do you want it? Mitro is immobile and slow ,so playing him made us a poorer pressing team ,but maybe he could score ( was very poor when he did get the chance ), but he didnt do alot of that. Playing without Mitro let us play 5 at the back ,become better in press (and therefore more solid ) with the chance of quick counters. Most of the good period of the season we have had was without mitro and with a back 5. We beat Leicester ,Everton ,and Liverpool away playing that way.
Perhaps its you that missing the point because if we had had different types of forwards they would have of course played. If mitro had started in every game we would probably have a lot less points than we have now.
Quote from: General on April 15, 2021, 10:07:27 AM
Parker has shown his limitations from the moment he became our manager to having a team full of stars in the championship who simply underperformed massively. Our time to catch Newcastle was when they had their strikers out injured who have just come back in the last game or two.
Parker may come good further down the line but given the resources he has had even this season, a more experienced manager would've seen us stay up. Of that I have no doubt.
Howe would be an interesting one - so would benitez. Just goes to show how poor Parker is when you compare him with allardyce at West brom and what he's managed to do with a weaker set of players. If I had been in TKs position I'd have got rid of Parker in January and brought in allardyce then. Players like andersen, RLC would've been a dream for allardyce. They may not have enjoyed the football but staying up is more important after just being promoted. Whole thing is a monumental shambles given how obvious the solutions have been from the get go. TK learns lessons soo slowly. Had he paid anywhere near enough attention and had an informed opinion before taking on the DOF role which he hardly does properly it'd have taken 5 years maximum to go down the first time, rejig things and reestablish ourselves as a solid premiership side. It's closing in on ten instead. If I was shahid I'd be embarrassed- it's bordering on ineptitude of the highest order. We are constantly undermining ourselves under his ownership and TKs involvement. Get a good back line, don't have a good forward line or coach, get a good coach and don't give him a good back line but give him a good front line. How about soend money wisely across the entire structure of the first team and build a balanced squad.
Best post on this board for a long time. :plus one:
Quote from: colinwhite on April 16, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 16, 2021, 10:18:04 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Having just looked at the article. The point it misses is, if you do not play forwards you are unlikely to score goals. That is down to Parker.
Which way do you want it? Mitro is immobile and slow ,so playing him made us a poorer pressing team ,but maybe he could score ( was very poor when he did get the chance ), but he didnt do alot of that. Playing without Mitro let us play 5 at the back ,become better in press (and therefore more solid ) with the chance of quick counters. Most of the good period of the season we have had was without mitro and with a back 5. We beat Leicester ,Everton ,and Liverpool away playing that way.
Perhaps its you that missing the point because if we had had different types of forwards they would have of course played. If mitro had started in every game we would probably have a lot less points than we have now.
I really admire your undying commitment to Parker Colin, and have learned long ago that it is pointless trying to change your set opinions. Whatever you say Mitro is a top international striker, but you need to play to his strengths, we have not played 5 at the back for a while, we have consistently played with cav, who for all his faults and I think he also has good qualities many miss, but he is not a forward. But as I say I will never get you to see another side of things.
I have not been on Parker's back all season but do sincerely believe that we will go nowhere under his leadership, but as all things that is my opinion based on how I see things.
Good day sir.
I think we have given Parker a really good run. We fully realised he was inexperienced but frankly there comes a time when enough is enough, and that is clearly now.
He does not know how to change a match, his substitutions are always late, and his team selections are so odd at times as to be severely unbalanced. We have played horrible football now for two years, with a really negative passing style in the Championship followed by some terribly inept performances in the Prem with no goals for weeks. Attack wise he is so limited. I bet RLC and Cav are in the team on Sunday, which is disgraceful really.
If fans had been allowed in then the discontent would have surfaced loud and clear well before now. But there has to be a time limit on this series of bad judgements and mistakes.That time has come. The games against Leeds, Villa and Wolves were woeful.
Interested to know what people think is the number when inexperienced becomes experienced and when the former can no longer be used as an excuse?
For me it was our first game in the championship when we lost to Barnsley Mr MGJ. And please don't start me on TK lol. I started a thread, SP TK back in September and I have not changed my mind.
Quote from: colinwhite on April 16, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 16, 2021, 10:18:04 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Having just looked at the article. The point it misses is, if you do not play forwards you are unlikely to score goals. That is down to Parker.
Which way do you want it? Mitro is immobile and slow ,so playing him made us a poorer pressing team ,but maybe he could score ( was very poor when he did get the chance ), but he didnt do alot of that. Playing without Mitro let us play 5 at the back ,become better in press (and therefore more solid ) with the chance of quick counters. Most of the good period of the season we have had was without mitro and with a back 5. We beat Leicester ,Everton ,and Liverpool away playing that way.
Perhaps its you that missing the point because if we had had different types of forwards they would have of course played. If mitro had started in every game we would probably have a lot less points than we have now.
Agree Colin.
I think it showed courage and tactical nous and willingness to change, to drop Mitro, especially when we had no proper replacement for centre forward, but it wasn't working with the iconic big man, and Scott was proved right when we went on that run, that brought us back in contention all looked lost with two thirds of the season still to play.
Colin is obviously right to say that if we had other strikers, more pacey and mobile, they would have played, and Scott wanted more attackers brought in in Jan, but we only managed to get Maja, good as he is, but more of an in the box sniffer than a pacey attacker.
Now, though with Mitro's return to form at international level, after all his problems, Scott has reintroduced him to the side, in an attempt to get the goals we need, showing again that he is prepared to change things if needed.
If it hasn't worked so far, i think it is lack of players who can get service to Mitro, rather than either Scott, or Mitro's fault.
But I'm sure Scott and his coaches are working hard with the players to get it right, and hopefully we will get the points that all our attacking play, and creation of chances, has deserved, and begin to score some much needed goals.
Quote from: clarkey on April 16, 2021, 04:56:58 PM
I think we have given Parker a really good run. We fully realised he was inexperienced but frankly there comes a time when enough is enough, and that is clearly now.
He does not know how to change a match, his substitutions are always late, and his team selections are so odd at times as to be severely unbalanced. We have played horrible football now for two years, with a really negative passing style in the Championship followed by some terribly inept performances in the Prem with no goals for weeks. Attack wise he is so limited. I bet RLC and Cav are in the team on Sunday, which is disgraceful really.
If fans had been allowed in then the discontent would have surfaced loud and clear well before now. But there has to be a time limit on this series of bad judgements and mistakes.That time has come. The games against Leeds, Villa and Wolves were woeful.
Quote from: MJG on April 16, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
Interested to know what people think is the number when inexperienced becomes experienced and when the former can no longer be used as an excuse?
If you get promoted from the championship in your first year in senior managemnet and then find yourself in the premier league then you are clearly still a rookie. Parker has huge experience of the PL league but not of man management, coaching senior players or building a team (its his first attempt ) so he is still every inexperienced in my book.
Clarkey ,was hoping you might write a post without mentioning Cavleiro ,but it just wasnt to be !!
Quote from: colinwhite on April 16, 2021, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: clarkey on April 16, 2021, 04:56:58 PM
I think we have given Parker a really good run. We fully realised he was inexperienced but frankly there comes a time when enough is enough, and that is clearly now.
He does not know how to change a match, his substitutions are always late, and his team selections are so odd at times as to be severely unbalanced. We have played horrible football now for two years, with a really negative passing style in the Championship followed by some terribly inept performances in the Prem with no goals for weeks. Attack wise he is so limited. I bet RLC and Cav are in the team on Sunday, which is disgraceful really.
If fans had been allowed in then the discontent would have surfaced loud and clear well before now. But there has to be a time limit on this series of bad judgements and mistakes.That time has come. The games against Leeds, Villa and Wolves were woeful.
Quote from: MJG on April 16, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
Interested to know what people think is the number when inexperienced becomes experienced and when the former can no longer be used as an excuse?
If you get promoted from the championship in your first year in senior managemnet and then find yourself in the premier league then you are clearly still a rookie. Parker has huge experience of the PL league but not of man management, coaching senior players or building a team (its his first attempt ) so he is still every inexperienced in my book.
Clarkey ,was hoping you might write a post without mentioning Cavleiro ,but it just wasnt to be !!
If that's the case Clarkey, WHY keep him as a manager? To learn his trade at our expense?
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 16, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 16, 2021, 10:18:04 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Having just looked at the article. The point it misses is, if you do not play forwards you are unlikely to score goals. That is down to Parker. ..... sorry this was actualy answering anothr post. Bobby ,in my book you support your manager. Parker is not my ideal manager but at the moment he is ours. Unfair and over the top criticism is what i have a problem with and that is a fixed unchangeable point of view unlike my feelings about Parker.
Which way do you want it? Mitro is immobile and slow ,so playing him made us a poorer pressing team ,but maybe he could score ( was very poor when he did get the chance ), but he didnt do alot of that. Playing without Mitro let us play 5 at the back ,become better in press (and therefore more solid ) with the chance of quick counters. Most of the good period of the season we have had was without mitro and with a back 5. We beat Leicester ,Everton ,and Liverpool away playing that way.
Perhaps its you that missing the point because if we had had different types of forwards they would have of course played. If mitro had started in every game we would probably have a lot less points than we have now.
I really admire your undying commitment to Parker Colin, and have learned long ago that it is pointless trying to change your set opinions. Whatever you say Mitro is a top international striker, but you need to play to his strengths, we have not played 5 at the back for a while, we have consistently played with cav, who for all his faults and I think he also has good qualities many miss, but he is not a forward. But as I say I will never get you to see another side of things.
I have not been on Parker's back all season but do sincerely believe that we will go nowhere under his leadership, but as all things that is my opinion based on how I see things.
Good day sir.
Parker is no different to any other player or manager . If a bigger team with more money and opportunity comes along then they would at least think seriously about it. you dont rate Parker ok ,fair enough but dont pin that on him as well !
Quote from: colinwhite on April 16, 2021, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 16, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: bobby01 on April 16, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on April 16, 2021, 10:18:04 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/16/fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show/
fulham-should-stick-scott-parker-whatever-fate-numbers-show
Having just looked at the article. The point it misses is, if you do not play forwards you are unlikely to score goals. That is down to Parker. ..... sorry this was actualy answering anothr post. Bobby ,in my book you support your manager. Parker is not my ideal manager but at the moment he is ours. Unfair and over the top criticism is what i have a problem with and that is a fixed unchangeable point of view unlike my feelings about Parker.
Which way do you want it? Mitro is immobile and slow ,so playing him made us a poorer pressing team ,but maybe he could score ( was very poor when he did get the chance ), but he didnt do alot of that. Playing without Mitro let us play 5 at the back ,become better in press (and therefore more solid ) with the chance of quick counters. Most of the good period of the season we have had was without mitro and with a back 5. We beat Leicester ,Everton ,and Liverpool away playing that way.
Perhaps its you that missing the point because if we had had different types of forwards they would have of course played. If mitro had started in every game we would probably have a lot less points than we have now.
I really admire your undying commitment to Parker Colin, and have learned long ago that it is pointless trying to change your set opinions. Whatever you say Mitro is a top international striker, but you need to play to his strengths, we have not played 5 at the back for a while, we have consistently played with cav, who for all his faults and I think he also has good qualities many miss, but he is not a forward. But as I say I will never get you to see another side of things.
I have not been on Parker's back all season but do sincerely believe that we will go nowhere under his leadership, but as all things that is my opinion based on how I see things.
Good day sir.
Parker is no different to any other player or manager . If a bigger team with more money and opportunity comes along then they would at least think seriously about it. you dont rate Parker ok ,fair enough but dont pin that on him as well !
Big IF for a manager with a 16% win rate in the EPL with a competitive squad.
Quote from: MJG on April 16, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
Interested to know what people think is the number when inexperienced becomes experienced and when the former can no longer be used as an excuse?
You have 'experience' from the moment you are labelled 'inexperienced' and in many ways your behaviour at said moment may be indicative of things to come. As with all human endeavour coaches come in differing shapes and sizes and I rather doubt there is an optimum format except the one designed for the individual themselves. How quickly an individual finds their optimum format depends upon how well they know themselves and how far they believe they can stretch outside their own perceived limits. At the moment I would say Parker can still be any one of good, bad, or indifferent as a coach and is not very far out of the beginner phase. Although he was largely thrown in the deep end his employers do appear to think he has something to offer them other than misery. I am not so sure anymore because he hasn't capitalised on things he said he had 'given to' his squad e.g. momentum.
I hope he stays to try to have a winning season after relegation. Reason? Who else?
Plenty of dinosaurs and has been managers out there to pick from..who else could have done better with the forwards Fulham have on board.
Remember Bobby Robson, sacked after one season. What happened next? Ipswich, Barcelona, England (best manager they ever had)...history often repeats.
Quote from: jarv on April 17, 2021, 03:46:07 PM
I hope he stays to try to have a winning season after relegation. Reason? Who else?
Plenty of dinosaurs and has been managers out there to pick from..who else could have done better with the forwards Fulham have on board.
Remember Bobby Robson, sacked after one season. What happened next? Ipswich, Barcelona, England (best manager they ever had)...history often repeats.
Also remember people didn't want that dinosaur Moyes here, I'm sure many a manager would have had this team playing better, our play is static everyone gets the ball stood still and that allows the opposition to get players behind the ball, how often do our players receive the ball running onto it at pace, hardly ever.
The mere comparison from Robson to Parker...man alive this is getting embarrassing.
