Friends of Fulham

I don't want anymore of this turgid and ineffective football.
Even during the Magath fiasco we had some personality.
Under Parker we have nothing.......No personality, no soul, no excitement.
In over twenty years a season ticket holder never have I felt so disconnected from a Fulham side.
I fear that next season if we keep Parker at the helm it will be more of the same.

I'll sign that petition!

Looking at his body language I think he's gone.

Yes!!!!!

Out for his beige outfits as well!!!

Fulham is not beige!

Today was so predicably awful - the ball needs to move forward. Does that even need to be said? What a joke.

yes please. we are the 1st top flight side to score less than 10 home goals in a season. Absolutely awful

I think the clues were there, Newcastle players with beach towels tucked under their arms & we couldn't get close to one goal.

Count me in on the out vote. No wins in ten games is pathetic.

OUT! Now is too late, should have been done a few months back, but we have a child at the helm of the club who wants a yo-yo, parker is his yo-yo

He looked totally beaten at the end and could barely muster a clap for the fans- his hands were in his pockets most of the time.

I wasn't at the game but I thought I could hear some booing which would probably have been directed at him. I desperately wanted him to succeed but today summed up for me just how poor his management and tactics have been. I was bored to tears watching us . If we had played till midnight we wouldn't have scored. Our only decent chance was wasted yet again by the guy he has picked all season and is bloody clueless once he gets anywhere near the penalty area. To cap it all he then takes off our most attack minded player in Jo Bryan.

Watching games with my Dad who is 92 - only been going to FFC for 70 years
All he says is ...."not back or square again - why can't we go forwards for once"
Any way what does he know after 70 years ?

Today took the pi55

No shots on target and more backwards and sideways passing , everytime we won the ball in a good position we went backwards and waited for them to get men behind the ball.

How he could pick Cavilero up top and play RLC again shows how out of touch he is with the feeling around the team. Yes we the fans do not pick the team, but how anyone can continue with them is beyond a joke.

Parker needs to go now!!!!!

Get the spurs mug out

He should never have been given the job in the first place, but managed to luckily get us promoted entirely reliant on Mitrovic and worldies from outside the box. This season has proven that he has no idea how to manage a football team. The football we've played through his tenure has been atrocious. There's no way he would have lasted the season had there been fans at the games

I really like SP and feel he has a great future but we can't afford to be the club he learns his trade

So alas he must walk

Well blow me down.

What an original thread.

Not as original as Parkers philosophy of backwards football

I agree with Mr winterline. I wish to add, Parker is NOT the problem. My view, the ownership and useless recruitment department.

I agree, time to go Mr Parker. Nice fella but the style of play is turgid.

Quote from: jarv on May 23, 2021, 07:58:35 PM
I agree with Mr winterline. I wish to add, Parker is NOT the problem. My view, the ownership and useless recruitment department.

Parker is part of the problem with his tactics, starting line ups and often bizarre substitutions.

Well I am obviously in the minority here, but I cannot see Big Sam as a step in the right direction. I vote: keep Scott.

Quote from: SouthIslandWhite on May 23, 2021, 08:16:30 PM
Well I am obviously in the minority here, but I cannot see Big Sam as a step in the right direction. I vote: keep Scott.

If and hopefully when Parker goes, it doesn't mean we get Big Sam

The trouble is the people who make the decision on parkers future know sweet fanny adams about football.

Bring back Kit Symons. At least we attempted the occasional forward pass

Quote from: SP on May 23, 2021, 07:13:42 PM
Looking at his body language I think he's gone.

Unfortunately having listened to his post match interview I think we have him at the helm for next season. Just shows how out of touch the Khans are with the feeling of the fans ...

Quote from: howitis on May 23, 2021, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: SP on May 23, 2021, 07:13:42 PM
Looking at his body language I think he's gone.

Unfortunately having listened to his post match interview I think we have him at the helm for next season. Just shows how out of touch the Khans are with the feeling of the fans ...

Well done for enduring the post match interview, I couldn't stomach another one.  Time to enjoy the summer I think & try to forget about FFC for a while if that's possible.

Quote from: howitis on May 23, 2021, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: SP on May 23, 2021, 07:13:42 PM
Looking at his body language I think he's gone.

Unfortunately having listened to his post match interview I think we have him at the helm for next season. Just shows how out of touch the Khans are with the feeling of the fans ...

Some of. That's very important as I do not know of anybody who follows the Club who simply says "Parker Out". One or two have a couple of ideas but most think it's time for a period of planning for the long term, a term that only SP seems to be familiar with and at this moment in time it makes the most sense.

You're mad in all honesty!
We have outplayed many a good premier team this year but just didn't have the quality/cutting edge or luck required.
Even today we dominated but had no striking threat.
We should have had a foul before they went up and scored their first and it was a dubious pen also.
Cav did miss a chance that really should have been just tapped in but for some reason he always tries high bending shots!
Lookman - well let's not go there - complete waste of space imo - falls over more than anything!

Carvalho looks the real deal and I don't think anyone can say that Ream wasn't excellent today!

Scott,if he gets the backing and a real forward, will become a very good manager and we should go back up easily.
Personally, I'm not sure I enjoy the Prem as it's completely biased towards the top few.

I'm looking forward to next season and hope that Scott is still the boss.
Too many here expect immediate results and billions to be spent- best look elsewhere if that's what you want?

If only we had signed a quick striker like Saha! Hopefully we can for next season!

But p,ease stop with the Fat Sam, Hodgson etc stuff - it ain't gonna happen!
Well I fkin hope not anyway!!

Less than 10 points at home, 2 points in the last 10 ganes (during a crucial relegation run in), no goals from open play in 8 games. We have been a disgrace the second half of the season. The players go out there week in week out with no plan to score, no forward tactics, no intent to get the ball in the box. God knows what he does on the training ground all week. Add to that his baffling selections and in-game management - absolutely no redeeming qualities about how he's managed us this season, other than seeming like a decent bloke in interviews.

Im astonished at this point that there is anyone defending him. We had a squad good enough to stay up, Parker just had no idea what to do with it. I'm okay with relegation, but we needed to at least go down fighting.

what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

0001.jpeg
Well said!

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Absolutely spot on.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 23, 2021, 10:39:25 PM

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Absolutely spot on.

Parker had at his disposal some very good players.
We had serving international players, we had players who had in the last couple of seasons played in Champions league finals. We had one of the best keepers we have ever had and we had players who will be snapped up by top level clubs next season.
We also had some utter dross that he insisted on playing week in week out .

Quote from: Luka on May 23, 2021, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 23, 2021, 10:39:25 PM

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Absolutely spot on.

Parker had at his disposal some very good players.
We had serving international players, we had players who had in the last couple of seasons played in Champions league finals. We had one of the best keepers we have ever had and we had players who will be snapped up by top level clubs next season.
We also had some utter dross that he insisted on playing week in week out .

Yes indeed he had some very good players but perhaps not Premiership level and definitely not Premiership ready and for the most part complete strangers eight games in. We said at promotion 'strikers', we said preseason, 'strikers', we said at transfer window time, 'strikers'. Add quality striker options to the mix and perhaps we would not have had to watch the "dross" being played. I think the general consensus not too long ago was two or three loanees might get touted by the top eight but none of the others and certainly none of those promoted. Threadbare doesn't even come close.

The incongruity of the caption (New) appearing alongside a thread titled "Parker Out".

I am still in favour of him staying.  I am not a "Parker fanboy" as one regular kindly called me, nor do I need to "defend" him, nor do I need "explain myself".  He makes decisions I disagree with, but so does every manager.  If you think someone could do better, you'll be in favour of replacing him.  If you think he can oversee a promotion campaign next season, you'll be in favour of keeping him.

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Please explain what real supporters are? People whom say the same as you. Other supporters with a different opinion aren't real supporters? Get of your pedestal. We all support the club regardless of opinion on the manager. You come on here giving it "your opinion" is better than others. You know all the supportes at the ground were happy with parker football? You asked them all?

No you didn't. There are many, myself inculded who find the football served up turgid and negative.

The team we had could have delivered and coming out with the no other manager could have kept us up attitude, parker is best is quite frankly a bottle job attitude. We have played with a slow lacklustre style the entire season and played the same last season. Leaving out strikers from the team in many games is inexcusable.

I'm sorry, but if the club has paid 30m for a striker and you refuse to both play them and when you do feel forced to play them, totally ignore their strengths then that's a manager issue. You can't hope to replace an entire squad during an offseason. You have to have players from the promoted squad step up to the next level. Simply none of the promoted players, bar Reed and BDR performed at premiership level.

You can say that's a quality issue with the squad, but you also have to set the team up for success. Giving that ridiculous negative press conference before the first game of the season didn't help.
Constantly playing players out of position didn't help.
Making 5-6 changes every week didn't help.
Playing players who weren't performing constantly didn't help.
Never changing tactics or formation based upon the opposition didn't help.
Refusing to play strikers didn't help.
Generally refusing to try and win games didn't help.
Overplaying at the back and giving teams easy chances didn't help.
Making baffling substitutions and always reactionary ones rather than proactive ones didn't help
Bringing on a billion defenders when winning by one goal and handing impetus to the other team didn't help
Coaching any attacking intent out of players didn't help

But yeah we won at Anfield so he's done a great job

I said all along we needed to stop sacking managers mid-season and in any case wanted to give Parker a decent chance but now the season is over and he's come up short IMO.

The target last season was promotion and he achieved that but only in the most narrowest and luckiest of circumstances. This season the target was 17th and he's missed that by 11 points which is abject failure really.

Yes I blame TK more than anyone for the way this season has panned out but even with the handicap that gave us, a better manager could have scraped 17th or come a lot closer IMO.

In particular, the utter capitulation from around March along with the failure to get anything out of our best striker (or even Hector) indicates to me a terrible failure of man management which really was supposed to be his USP. I also agree with others that whilst he made us look defensively sound for a while, it didn't last and came at the expense of it being totally unenjoyable to watch.

It's now a no brainer IMO. Parker out, ASAP. 

Quote from: howitis on May 23, 2021, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: SP on May 23, 2021, 07:13:42 PM
Looking at his body language I think he's gone.

Unfortunately having listened to his post match interview I think we have him at the helm for next season. Just shows how out of touch the Khans are with the feeling of the fans ...

I do cringe when I read this kind of thing on a board.
I'm not sure where the evidence for this lies concerning even the majority of fans on this board, let alone worldwide! It's not those who shout the loudest, or write the most disparaging things about SP, that counts. Just from looking at the responses on this thread alone shows there is a definite split in the discussion, I always encourage people to speak their minds but please, refrain from claiming anything on behalf of all fans, because I, for one of many on this board, do not agree with you, or the OP.

I've weighed up all the comments above and say that Parker should have managed his last Fulham game. Whether that will be the case I don't know but relegation is as low as you can go in one season in the uk

Parker in. The idea that we played bad football is insane. It wasn't good enough, but we dominated big time teams at times. Not enough Fulham fans actually watch the games. Too many are all wins and losses simple types.

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Sorry, although I fall on the same side as you in this discussion, I was not at the game, and cannot attend anywhere near as many of most on this board, but I do consider myself an honest and real supporter, as I also do those that fall on the 'other' side of this discussion.

I consider all members on here as  Fulham fans at heart and should be permitted to say what they feel without being considered either dishonest or fake supporters.

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Oh come on. This is surely a wind up? The gap in the quality of the players between ourselves and the likes of Newcastle is not that high. To call these seasoned internationals - many of whom have commanded price tags of 20-30 million pounds "boys" is just ridiculous. In Areola we had probably the best keeper we have ever had. A French international in his prime who has played for Real Madrid and PSG. Probably in the top 3 in this division. Andersen is a 30m euro danish international centre back. He's the best we've had since Hangeland who will be in demand from Champions League teams this summer. A few others:

Tete - starting right back for Holland
Aina - 17 Nigeria caps, £10m from Chelsea in 2019
Robinson - Only nabbed him as his move to AC Milan fell through on medical grounds
Lookman - Leipzig paid £23m last year
Mitrovic - Championship Top Scorer 2020, Serbia all time top scorer. Banging in goals for country all season!
Anguissa - bossed the Spanish league. Cost £20m 2 seasons ago & worth more now. 27 Cameroon caps
Ream - 42 USA caps
Cav - we paid £15m for him
RLC - £150k per week wages, 10 England caps
Lemina - 18 international caps, former Juventus and cost Sthmpn £16m
Kongolo - another Dutch international who cost Huddersfield £20m (albeit injured most of the season)

For gods sake, Dwight Gayle came on for them today! The idea that we didn't have a squad capable of competing with the likes of Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton is ridiculous.

This squad is more than capable, and the problem is they all benefit from direct play rather than sideways and backwards, defenders straight in your face (or in your back) attacking. Cav, despite his terrible miss, looked good on the LW spot, somewhere he hasn't played much at all this season - yet he scored some beauties for us in the championship from there. Lookman is one of our best players with the ball at his feet, yet we plug him on the left-hand side to obviously tuck in or wait for overlaps/underlaps. He should have been a CAM all season long, right behind the striker.

Someone is telling these players to pass the ball back to our centre-backs, AFTER we have already made it to the top of the opponent's box, and even inside their box. If it happens once, fine, but it happened 7 times in this match. That is taught, that is a mantra, it's embedded in you - and it makes our players cowards. Parker can shout from the sidelines all he wants, and over-coach all he wants, but he's done the club and players a complete disservice this season. I think he's an incredibly nice and personable individual, but he's all talk. The way he talks, it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, like one of his nice coats - but then his tactics bore you to death with a straitjacket.

Parker out for me, and bring in someone who take advantage of the quality we do have - because there's loads. Get us a playmaker like a younger Johansen (or Johansen) ASAP.

Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on May 24, 2021, 12:51:55 AM
Parker in. The idea that we played bad football is insane. It wasn't good enough, but we dominated big time teams at times. Not enough Fulham fans actually watch the games. Too many are all wins and losses simple types.

And we were winless in 14 matches against the teams that finished 11th-17th. Six draws and eight losses.

Combine the two: That we were good enough to outplay some of the biggest sides but couldn't beat anyone closer to our level suggests to me that this season was a manager failure much more than a management failure. If we lacked so much class, how were we winning at Everton, Liverpool and Leicester?

 
I don"t want to see Parker or that donkey CAV at my club any more ,there pathetic.

Quote from: Southcoastffc on May 23, 2021, 07:06:28 PM
I'll sign that petition!

so why dont we as supproters get S.K's P.A's email addrsss and send a courtious email explaining the reasons why we want him out and who the alternative is, that way im sure he will take note or am i barking up the wrong tree so to speak.
as for the football it so slow ,turgid, left to right then right to left, no penitration or use of the wingers we should be using our strengths, if the team i manged in sunday league football played the way parker plays the we would have finished bottom (before covid we won three divisions straight off by playing 4.4.2 with inverted wingers and playing attacking football with a creative midfilder and a flat back four sometime reverting to  three to allow the wingers more freedom.

You only need to look at Leeds to see what difference a great coach can make. Bielsa would have kept our squad up and had us playing better football.

On the other hand what would Parker have done with the Leeds squad........?

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Well I was there and am very much in the PARKER OUT camp. I must have arrived prior to the census you appear to have conducted at the turnstiles

I was at the game and many many fans around me were totally critical of the awful selection, and tactics.There was plenty of booing, but generally the feeling what was the point ? No one was supporting Parker at all in any of the many discussions going on. They realised he has run his race and has been found wanting.

Whatever you think of the Khan's transfer policy the truth is undeniable that Parker has not been creative, detailed or clever with his selectionand setting up of the team. He has not improved any of the players and has done the reverse with many of th squad. They were not playing for him yesterday.

He was totally disconnected from the fans, made no attempt to come over and offer anything. Only Ream showed true leadership and a bit of style along wiht Tosin, Andersen and Tete but otherwise a very poor show.

As a fan you might feel the transfer policy has been flawed this season but no one can argue with the fact that we have been subject to terribly defensive tactics both last year and this, a lack of guile and craft and basically some really stupid decisions.

Yesterday why did we start with no striker ? Why was RLC brought on (to boos) why was Cav still selected, he missed an open goal for goodness sake but was awful all game. He played every minute.And why have Lookman and BDR isolated and stuck on the touchline, when we needed someone, anyone, in the middle during the first 60 minutes. It was a great summary of the last 30 games. Parker has just been bad. Accept it and move on.

The real debate is about the owners, not the manager no one could argue that Parker has been good in any shape or form.He can barely speak to explain his tactics.

Please No:-

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/sir-alex-names-impressive-managers-24170621

Quote from: rebel on May 24, 2021, 09:14:32 AM
Please No:-

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/sir-alex-names-impressive-managers-24170621

Send me two bottles of that vin de plonk that Ferguson was drinking when he gave that interview.

Scott is learning. His style of possession and playing out from the back is not unlike that of Manchester City. The difference is the quality of the players at his disposal. There is a line of thought that
if Mitro can't get goals then we have not been playing to his strengths and that the style of play does not suit him. Trouble is that there are not many who it would suit. Maybe academy or under 23 players who are growing up with the philosophy but they are not ready to take on the more experienced and physically stronger players in the Championship....yet. The chances have been made if you look at the stats and if you could add the goals that our play has deserved this season through better quality finishing ,then all of the calls about backwards, sideways etc would be forgotten, because we would have finished mid-table. It will be interesting to see how things pan out but for the clubs sake, we need to back or sack and then have a crack!

Quote from: Pluto on May 24, 2021, 02:31:55 AM

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Oh come on. This is surely a wind up? The gap in the quality of the players between ourselves and the likes of Newcastle is not that high. To call these seasoned internationals - many of whom have commanded price tags of 20-30 million pounds "boys" is just ridiculous. In Areola we had probably the best keeper we have ever had. A French international in his prime who has played for Real Madrid and PSG. Probably in the top 3 in this division. Andersen is a 30m euro danish international centre back. He's the best we've had since Hangeland who will be in demand from Champions League teams this summer. A few others:

Tete - starting right back for Holland
Aina - 17 Nigeria caps, £10m from Chelsea in 2019
Robinson - Only nabbed him as his move to AC Milan fell through on medical grounds
Lookman - Leipzig paid £23m last year
Mitrovic - Championship Top Scorer 2020, Serbia all time top scorer. Banging in goals for country all season!
Anguissa - bossed the Spanish league. Cost £20m 2 seasons ago & worth more now. 27 Cameroon caps
Ream - 42 USA caps
Cav - we paid £15m for him
RLC - £150k per week wages, 10 England caps
Lemina - 18 international caps, former Juventus and cost Sthmpn £16m
Kongolo - another Dutch international who cost Huddersfield £20m (albeit injured most of the season)

For gods sake, Dwight Gayle came on for them today! The idea that we didn't have a squad capable of competing with the likes of Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton is ridiculous.

Neat post, Klopp, Guardiola could work wonders with those players. The thing is that those two managers want to win matches, rather then not lose matches. There is obviously a 'gulf' in experience. But Parker is in 'loop mode'.

Quote from: rebel on May 24, 2021, 09:49:56 AM

Quote from: Pluto on May 24, 2021, 02:31:55 AM

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Oh come on. This is surely a wind up? The gap in the quality of the players between ourselves and the likes of Newcastle is not that high. To call these seasoned internationals - many of whom have commanded price tags of 20-30 million pounds "boys" is just ridiculous. In Areola we had probably the best keeper we have ever had. A French international in his prime who has played for Real Madrid and PSG. Probably in the top 3 in this division. Andersen is a 30m euro danish international centre back. He's the best we've had since Hangeland who will be in demand from Champions League teams this summer. A few others:

Tete - starting right back for Holland
Aina - 17 Nigeria caps, £10m from Chelsea in 2019
Robinson - Only nabbed him as his move to AC Milan fell through on medical grounds
Lookman - Leipzig paid £23m last year
Mitrovic - Championship Top Scorer 2020, Serbia all time top scorer. Banging in goals for country all season!
Anguissa - bossed the Spanish league. Cost £20m 2 seasons ago & worth more now. 27 Cameroon caps
Ream - 42 USA caps
Cav - we paid £15m for him
RLC - £150k per week wages, 10 England caps
Lemina - 18 international caps, former Juventus and cost Sthmpn £16m
Kongolo - another Dutch international who cost Huddersfield £20m (albeit injured most of the season)

For gods sake, Dwight Gayle came on for them today! The idea that we didn't have a squad capable of competing with the likes of Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton is ridiculous.

Neat post, Klopp, Guardiola could work wonders with those players. The thing is that those two managers want to win matches, rather then not lose matches. There is obviously a 'gulf' in experience. But Parker is in 'loop mode'.

This just shows what a competitive league the Prem is.

To  talk of what Klopp and Guardiola would do with these players is just unfounded hypothesis, because thy only work with top elite players.

We all thought Ranieri would do a good job at Fulham, after what he'd achieved at Leicester.

To compare us to Newcastle. Who do we have to compare as attacking, scoring players with St Maximin, Elmira, Wilson, or creatives like  Ritchie and Shelby? Willock, a top loan too.

I think we would have scored goals , and got points, under Parker with these players in the team, just as Bruce was criticised for being too defensive, and losing games without them - his team was transformed  getting these players back from injury.

As it was  came close in so many games, but just weren't able to put the  ball in the net, despite creating a lot of chances in most games.

Such players as Newcastle's, mean you can take attacking risks, throw men forward, knowing they will create so many chances, that some are bound to go in, and you don't have to worry so much about not conceding.

A crucial difference in the attacking quality of the two sides is shown by Gayle - who we really wanted and tried hard to get in the Jan window, offering him a high wage and  guaranteeing him fist team football, but he decided to go to Newcastle, where he was mostly on the bench , hardly featuring as final few minutes sub, even when their main strikers were still out injured.

Whereas, at Fulham, we would have been thrown straight into the first team, and been our main striker.

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

No offence mate - that really is a load of rubbish post. What does this even mean - 'you could have played any tactics', 'pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad' ! Come off it, Parker needs to go. He has basically learned nothing in the two and a bit seasons he has been in charge. How many years should we give him? As it stands he is taking us backwards, both in terms of attacking play, defending, tactics, in game management, player performance...

All hypotheses are simply theories and can be based on everything or nothing, and so to discount the simple fact that top managers have never had to deal with the problem of developing talent from nothing is a valid addition to a massively long list of attempts to explain why something didn't go the way the theory claimed it should have gone. 

Parker was given a much better balanced squad than possibly any other head coach/manager since the Khans took over from the off pitch professionals and determined that data is king.  He was even allowed to join in.  And wow what did that give us after so many false dawns.  A decent and fit defender or two, a very good goalkeeper, a half way decent fullback on the right flank, a possible future fullback for the left, a better version of Arter, and a couple of apparently disaffected attacking midfielders.  All that was needed was a coach capable of constructing a team for every third of a football pitch.  And that is where Parker has failed for three seasons now.  He can cope with up to two thirds of his job but I regret to say he is third rate defective.     

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

This take has been rightly panned.
Vast majority of fulham fans I know are sick of the way we play. Many were frustrated last year and felt we got lucky pulling it out the bag at the death vs Brentford.

This team proved they are capable of competing, as mentioned many have had success before at a high level. This issue is for 2 years parker has struggled to organise a potent attack and how many times last season were we saying how we got bailed out by moments of individual brilliance.

I wanted so much for him to do well but he patently hasnt. Was the the least wins weve ever had in the prem? Weve definately had worse squads ... TK made mistakes but a better manager absolutely could have got more from that set of players.

TKs biggest mistake for me was extending parkers contract!

Quote from: clarkey on May 24, 2021, 09:12:07 AM
I was at the game and many many fans around me were totally critical of the awful selection, and tactics.There was plenty of booing, but generally the feeling what was the point ? No one was supporting Parker at all in any of the many discussions going on. They realised he has run his race and has been found wanting.

Whatever you think of the Khan's transfer policy the truth is undeniable that Parker has not been creative, detailed or clever with his selectionand setting up of the team. He has not improved any of the players and has done the reverse with many of th squad. They were not playing for him yesterday.

He was totally disconnected from the fans, made no attempt to come over and offer anything. Only Ream showed true leadership and a bit of style along wiht Tosin, Andersen and Tete but otherwise a very poor show.

As a fan you might feel the transfer policy has been flawed this season but no one can argue with the fact that we have been subject to terribly defensive tactics both last year and this, a lack of guile and craft and basically some really stupid decisions.

Yesterday why did we start with no striker ? Why was RLC brought on (to boos) why was Cav still selected, he missed an open goal for goodness sake but was awful all game. He played every minute.And why have Lookman and BDR isolated and stuck on the touchline, when we needed someone, anyone, in the middle during the first 60 minutes. It was a great summary of the last 30 games. Parker has just been bad. Accept it and move on.

The real debate is about the owners, not the manager no one could argue that Parker has been good in any shape or form.He can barely speak to explain his tactics.

If you were at the game, can I ask how you noticed that Andersen showed a bit of style?

Quote from: toshes mate on May 24, 2021, 10:32:57 AM
All hypotheses are simply theories and can be based on everything or nothing, and so to discount the simple fact that top managers have never had to deal with the problem of developing talent from nothing is a valid addition to a massively long list of attempts to explain why something didn't go the way the theory claimed it should have gone. 

Parker was given a much better balanced squad than possibly any other head coach/manager since the Khans took over from the off pitch professionals and determined that data is king.  He was even allowed to join in.  And wow what did that give us after so many false dawns.  A decent and fit defender or two, a very good goalkeeper, a half way decent fullback on the right flank, a possible future fullback for the left, a better version of Arter, and a couple of apparently disaffected attacking midfielders.  All that was needed was a coach capable of constructing a team for every third of a football pitch.  And that is where Parker has failed for three seasons now.  He can cope with up to two thirds of his job but I regret to say he is third rate defective.     

When you say he was given a much better balanced sqaud can I ask who you would regard as the better striker(s) and the creative midfielder(s) in that squad?

To be clear, I have edged into the Parker should leave group but I think that far too many of the arguments and assertions are binary and absolute.  It's either all SP's fault or not his fault at all.  To my mind it's far more nuanced.  I don't think TK provided a decent balanced squad and neither did he get players in quickly enough (plus he was far too reliant on loanees). None of this was SP's fault.

However, it can't be denied that our style has been diifcult to watch and ineffective; we have persisted with Cav as a central striker and continued to play RLC long after it became obvious he wasn't improving post injury, our reliance on possession for the sake of it hasn't worked and we haven't shown signs of changing.  I could just about cope with a turgid style if it kept us up but it hasn't.  The lack of learning and adaptation is my biggest concern.  These things are SP's fault and for these reasons I fear he needs to move on.

Not sure if any replacement will fare much better under TK though!

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Agreed

Quote from: Twig on May 24, 2021, 11:51:40 AM

Quote from: toshes mate on May 24, 2021, 10:32:57 AM
All hypotheses are simply theories and can be based on everything or nothing, and so to discount the simple fact that top managers have never had to deal with the problem of developing talent from nothing is a valid addition to a massively long list of attempts to explain why something didn't go the way the theory claimed it should have gone. 

Parker was given a much better balanced squad than possibly any other head coach/manager since the Khans took over from the off pitch professionals and determined that data is king.  He was even allowed to join in.  And wow what did that give us after so many false dawns.  A decent and fit defender or two, a very good goalkeeper, a half way decent fullback on the right flank, a possible future fullback for the left, a better version of Arter, and a couple of apparently disaffected attacking midfielders.  All that was needed was a coach capable of constructing a team for every third of a football pitch.  And that is where Parker has failed for three seasons now.  He can cope with up to two thirds of his job but I regret to say he is third rate defective.     

When you say he was given a much better balanced sqaud can I ask who you would regard as the better striker(s) and the creative midfielder(s) in that squad?

To be clear, I have edged into the Parker should leave group but I think that far too many of the arguments and assertions are binary and absolute.  It's either all SP's fault or not his fault at all.  To my mind it's far more nuanced.  I don't think TK provided a decent balanced squad and neither did he get players in quickly enough (plus he was far too reliant on loanees). None of this was SP's fault.

However, it can't be denied that our style has been diifcult to watch and ineffective; we have persisted with Cav as a central striker and continued to play RLC long after it became obvious he wasn't improving post injury, our reliance on possession for the sake of it hasn't worked and we haven't shown signs of changing.  I could just about cope with a turgid style if it kept us up but it hasn't.  The lack of learning and adaptation is my biggest concern.  These things are SP's fault and for these reasons I fear he needs to move on.

Not sure if any replacement will fare much better under TK though!

Twig's post is spot on and is a balanced view of the current situation (in my opinion ) . I think we are in a bit of a mess . Relegation isn't the worst thing - what is is the lack of strategy to get us to return and consolidate our place. This, coupled with a manager who makes decisions that simply do not make sense and has a playing style that is coma inducing, is potentially extremely toxic.
Surely something has to give ? The manager or DOF - or both have to either go or radically change their modus operandi.
It's very Fulhamish  to have a great owner, who is investing heavily both on and off the pitch, only for those who work for him creating something that resembles a car crash.
Almost forgot didn't he make his money in replacing parts? Time to get to work on us

Quote from: Twig on May 24, 2021, 11:51:40 AM
When you say he was given a much better balanced sqaud can I ask who you would regard as the better striker(s) and the creative midfielder(s) in that squad?

To be clear, I have edged into the Parker should leave group but I think that far too many of the arguments and assertions are binary and absolute.  It's either all SP's fault or not his fault at all.  To my mind it's far more nuanced.  I don't think TK provided a decent balanced squad and neither did he get players in quickly enough (plus he was far too reliant on loanees). None of this was SP's fault.

However, it can't be denied that our style has been diifcult to watch and ineffective; we have persisted with Cav as a central striker and continued to play RLC long after it became obvious he wasn't improving post injury, our reliance on possession for the sake of it hasn't worked and we haven't shown signs of changing.  I could just about cope with a turgid style if it kept us up but it hasn't.  The lack of learning and adaptation is my biggest concern.  These things are SP's fault and for these reasons I fear he needs to move on.

Not sure if any replacement will fare much better under TK though!

I agree that the demise of FFC has been the culmination of a large number of changes (of which personnel are essentially the greater part) all involving the choices made by senior officials in the Club.  Where it started is anybody's guess but I personally believe the greatest damage occurred immediately after the Wembley defeat of Villa.   But Parker was, IMO, blessed with reasonable squads this season and last season. 

Of the strikers at the Club at the start of this season we had Mitrovic as the only one but that has been true throughout the TK recruitment reign, and so Parker was not alone in having to suss out how you score goals with one striker on your books.   We could also factor in how you play characters like Kamara, Kebano etc. to best effect (which Jokanovic achieved) and once again we see Parker exercised similar judgement to those he showed in constantly playing Cavaleiro and Knockaert in the Championship without looking to give others longer spells in the side to greater affect. 

In midfield there was always a problem without Cairney which was, like Mitrovic, suffered by everyone.  Piazon and Ayite could both move around and pick out passes and were allowed to go without serous attempts to replace like for like.  Seri and Anguissa are not playmakers and nor was Arter and I just don't see why we didn't get back up for Cairney long ago. 

Hence with the addition of Mitro and Cairney et al the side was full of much greater possibility than ever before.  There was also some real quality in defence for the first time under TK. But Parker doesn't do experiments because he isn't a risk taker.  I have moaned about the flanks until I am sick of hearing myself doing so but you have to try things and not just play the same old stuff and expect different outcomes.   Parker should have constructed better from what he was given to be worth a £5m contract IMO and he just has to go if the Khans don't want to be guilty of yet another costly error of judgement. 

And it hurts me to say it because I just don't trust the Khans to hire good coaches but more of this is going to damage the Club beyond repair IMHO, and so I don't feel they have any choice.  I don't think Parker is going to be any better than he briefly was earlier this year, and my fear is he is going to get worse.

One other thing to remember is that when we came up under Slav, R. Sess had scored a lot of goals in the Championship - he (or at least his goal threat) has also not been replaced.

Quote from: RaySmith on May 24, 2021, 10:09:07 AM

Quote from: rebel on May 24, 2021, 09:49:56 AM

Quote from: Pluto on May 24, 2021, 02:31:55 AM

Quote from: ALG01 on May 23, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
what a load of rubbish spouted on thos thread.

i went to the game and what I saw was a team lacking quality. you copuld have played any tactics but the total abscence of quality was in evidence in abundance.
if you get the next manager and he plays a different style we are doomed to failure/
personally I think parker sets the team up in  a pragmatic manner getting lots from the squad. but we are men against boys, us being the boys.

It is total nonsense to blame the manager and I find may of the posts difficult to cope with from putprported honest hulham fans. that was not the opinion in the grround from real supporters.

Oh come on. This is surely a wind up? The gap in the quality of the players between ourselves and the likes of Newcastle is not that high. To call these seasoned internationals - many of whom have commanded price tags of 20-30 million pounds "boys" is just ridiculous. In Areola we had probably the best keeper we have ever had. A French international in his prime who has played for Real Madrid and PSG. Probably in the top 3 in this division. Andersen is a 30m euro danish international centre back. He's the best we've had since Hangeland who will be in demand from Champions League teams this summer. A few others:

Tete - starting right back for Holland
Aina - 17 Nigeria caps, £10m from Chelsea in 2019
Robinson - Only nabbed him as his move to AC Milan fell through on medical grounds
Lookman - Leipzig paid £23m last year
Mitrovic - Championship Top Scorer 2020, Serbia all time top scorer. Banging in goals for country all season!
Anguissa - bossed the Spanish league. Cost £20m 2 seasons ago & worth more now. 27 Cameroon caps
Ream - 42 USA caps
Cav - we paid £15m for him
RLC - £150k per week wages, 10 England caps
Lemina - 18 international caps, former Juventus and cost Sthmpn £16m
Kongolo - another Dutch international who cost Huddersfield £20m (albeit injured most of the season)

For gods sake, Dwight Gayle came on for them today! The idea that we didn't have a squad capable of competing with the likes of Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton is ridiculous.

Neat post, Klopp, Guardiola could work wonders with those players. The thing is that those two managers want to win matches, rather then not lose matches. There is obviously a 'gulf' in experience. But Parker is in 'loop mode'.

This just shows what a competitive league the Prem is.

To  talk of what Klopp and Guardiola would do with these players is just unfounded hypothesis, because thy only work with top elite players.

We all thought Ranieri would do a good job at Fulham, after what he'd achieved at Leicester.

To compare us to Newcastle. Who do we have to compare as attacking, scoring players with St Maximin, Elmira, Wilson, or creatives like  Ritchie and Shelby? Willock, a top loan too.

I think we would have scored goals , and got points, under Parker with these players in the team, just as Bruce was criticised for being too defensive, and losing games without them - his team was transformed  getting these players back from injury.

As it was  came close in so many games, but just weren't able to put the  ball in the net, despite creating a lot of chances in most games.

Such players as Newcastle's, mean you can take attacking risks, throw men forward, knowing they will create so many chances, that some are bound to go in, and you don't have to worry so much about not conceding.

A crucial difference in the attacking quality of the two sides is shown by Gayle - who we really wanted and tried hard to get in the Jan window, offering him a high wage and  guaranteeing him fist team football, but he decided to go to Newcastle, where he was mostly on the bench , hardly featuring as final few minutes sub, even when their main strikers were still out injured.

Whereas, at Fulham, we would have been thrown straight into the first team, and been our main striker.

Steady on. Way too much accuracy in your thought process. A scary notion. Shelvey takes a lot of flak but puts in the yards, has a decent shot and free kick, can tackle so you stay tackled and will put his face in the way of a goal bound toe punt. Now who in yesterday's midfield could displace him?
By the way how do I become 'a creative' and will it hurt?

Quote from: Logicalman on May 24, 2021, 12:43:40 AM

Quote from: howitis on May 23, 2021, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: SP on May 23, 2021, 07:13:42 PM
Looking at his body language I think he's gone.

Unfortunately having listened to his post match interview I think we have him at the helm for next season. Just shows how out of touch the Khans are with the feeling of the fans ...

I do cringe when I read this kind of thing on a board.
I'm not sure where the evidence for this lies concerning even the majority of fans on this board, let alone worldwide! It's not those who shout the loudest, or write the most disparaging things about SP, that counts. Just from looking at the responses on this thread alone shows there is a definite split in the discussion, I always encourage people to speak their minds but please, refrain from claiming anything on behalf of all fans, because I, for one of many on this board, do not agree with you, or the OP.

Good points Logicalman, well made.

And there is a big divide of opinion. I agree with Alg01 - for me the decisive factor was a lack of real quality particularly in the final third.  Of our attacking players, I see very few good sides coming in for any of them. I'm afraid there were times when even Mitro did not look like a premier league striker. Teams like Burnley found it quite easy to contain him and in that game we did try knocking the ball to him, but long balls were just lost balls .. and most Premier league teams will cope quite easily with that.

I thought yesterday summed it up. In the second half I thought we had several very good attacking opportunities - most didn't even end with an attempt on goal. I don't know how the set-up works at Fulham, or how much influence Parker has on player selection etc, but he and scouting staff must share some of the responsibility - I don't think it is TK identifying the targets and making sole decisions on who to buy or get on loan. But without the attacking quality we needed, I suspect the task of keeping us up would have been beyond most managers.

At the start of the season, Parker's system was a 4-2-3-1 and no wingbacks, in particular not placing our wingers from the championship as wingbacks (Cav, BDR). We were built for a high possession 4-2-3-1 that had an identified playmaker in Cairney, and even StefJo towards the end of the champ season.

Parker shifted the tactical goalposts AFTER the first transfer window finalized, immediately wanting a more mobile striker than Mitro - hence...enter Cavaleiro. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 5-4-1/3-4-2-1 counter-attacking team. Even if fit, there was no longer room for our creative playmaker in Cairney. Parker then received his mobile striker in Maja and chose not to start him consistently. He rarely placed Maja and Mitro together when we needed goals - and both these players had more than 1 goal to their name. Other than RLC and Lemina, our central midfielders could not score goals.

It's a bit hard for me to blame recruiting this year. The quality was there, the goalposts were shifted by the manager, and recruiting ends up looking bad because he forced players into a system that he did not have any experience using. I've said it before, but if players were as bad as people say, then Parker would know to keep things very simple and focused on 1 player = 1 position = attack/defend task. Why he complicated such simple tasks is inexcusable.

Quote from: Matt10 on May 24, 2021, 06:44:41 PM
At the start of the season, Parker's system was a 4-2-3-1 and no wingbacks, in particular not placing our wingers from the championship as wingbacks (Cav, BDR). We were built for a high possession 4-2-3-1 that had an identified playmaker in Cairney, and even StefJo towards the end of the champ season.

Parker shifted the tactical goalposts AFTER the first transfer window finalized, immediately wanting a more mobile striker than Mitro - hence...enter Cavaleiro. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 5-4-1/3-4-2-1 counter-attacking team. Even if fit, there was no longer room for our creative playmaker in Cairney. Parker then received his mobile striker in Maja and chose not to start him consistently. He rarely placed Maja and Mitro together when we needed goals - and both these players had more than 1 goal to their name. Other than RLC and Lemina, our central midfielders could not score goals.

It's a bit hard for me to blame recruiting this year. The quality was there, the goalposts were shifted by the manager, and recruiting ends up looking bad because he forced players into a system that he did not have any experience using. I've said it before, but if players were as bad as people say, then Parker would know to keep things very simple and focused on 1 player = 1 position = attack/defend task. Why he complicated such simple tasks is inexcusable.

Recruitment is the one single issue that tied Parker's hands. You can talk tactics and formations all day long but most of the offensive players available to the manager were just weren't good enough. Neither were those sent out on loan. I'm not criticising individuals because most gave everything for the cause. The one thing you can't criticise this team for is effort. If the quality was there as you have suggested  I would expect our  offensive players to be linked with moves away this summer. Well they weren't good enough for the division so I expect they will still be with us in August.

Quote from: Whitestone on May 24, 2021, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: Matt10 on May 24, 2021, 06:44:41 PM
At the start of the season, Parker's system was a 4-2-3-1 and no wingbacks, in particular not placing our wingers from the championship as wingbacks (Cav, BDR). We were built for a high possession 4-2-3-1 that had an identified playmaker in Cairney, and even StefJo towards the end of the champ season.

Parker shifted the tactical goalposts AFTER the first transfer window finalized, immediately wanting a more mobile striker than Mitro - hence...enter Cavaleiro. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 5-4-1/3-4-2-1 counter-attacking team. Even if fit, there was no longer room for our creative playmaker in Cairney. Parker then received his mobile striker in Maja and chose not to start him consistently. He rarely placed Maja and Mitro together when we needed goals - and both these players had more than 1 goal to their name. Other than RLC and Lemina, our central midfielders could not score goals.

It's a bit hard for me to blame recruiting this year. The quality was there, the goalposts were shifted by the manager, and recruiting ends up looking bad because he forced players into a system that he did not have any experience using. I've said it before, but if players were as bad as people say, then Parker would know to keep things very simple and focused on 1 player = 1 position = attack/defend task. Why he complicated such simple tasks is inexcusable.

Recruitment is the one single issue that tied Parker's hands. You can talk tactics and formations all day long but most of the offensive players available to the manager were just weren't good enough. Neither were those sent out on loan. I'm not criticising individuals because most gave everything for the cause. The one thing you can't criticise this team for is effort. If the quality was there as you have suggested  I would expect our  offensive players to be linked with moves away this summer. Well they weren't good enough for the division so I expect they will still be with us in August.

I don't think Parker was helpless with attacking choices. There are plenty of championship teams that get promoted with the same players and manage just fine. It's the manager who changes things drastically and expects that these square pegs will fit into round holes. The obvious choices were there, but Parker got over-creative and over-coached our players to something they weren't.

The players not being of quality is a convenient argument to the result of our season. At the time, however, most were feeling good with the likes of Mitrovic, Lookman, RLC, Cairney and even Cav. I also don't buy into Parker having his hands tied when his hands were supposed to be involved in the process - which is something that was reported when we hired the man.

Recruiting has their one shot, one window, to get the players the manager wants. The manager then has 7 days a week for 38 (more or less) weeks to find answers to the questions.

If Parker had consistently set up players in their obvious positions, and the results were the same, then I'd put my hand up and say - give him another chance - but he didn't. He did so much tinkering to the point that no one could isolate what the true problem was with the team.

Quote from: Matt10 on May 24, 2021, 09:14:08 PM

Quote from: Whitestone on May 24, 2021, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: Matt10 on May 24, 2021, 06:44:41 PM
At the start of the season, Parker's system was a 4-2-3-1 and no wingbacks, in particular not placing our wingers from the championship as wingbacks (Cav, BDR). We were built for a high possession 4-2-3-1 that had an identified playmaker in Cairney, and even StefJo towards the end of the champ season.

Parker shifted the tactical goalposts AFTER the first transfer window finalized, immediately wanting a more mobile striker than Mitro - hence...enter Cavaleiro. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 5-4-1/3-4-2-1 counter-attacking team. Even if fit, there was no longer room for our creative playmaker in Cairney. Parker then received his mobile striker in Maja and chose not to start him consistently. He rarely placed Maja and Mitro together when we needed goals - and both these players had more than 1 goal to their name. Other than RLC and Lemina, our central midfielders could not score goals.

It's a bit hard for me to blame recruiting this year. The quality was there, the goalposts were shifted by the manager, and recruiting ends up looking bad because he forced players into a system that he did not have any experience using. I've said it before, but if players were as bad as people say, then Parker would know to keep things very simple and focused on 1 player = 1 position = attack/defend task. Why he complicated such simple tasks is inexcusable.

Recruitment is the one single issue that tied Parker's hands. You can talk tactics and formations all day long but most of the offensive players available to the manager were just weren't good enough. Neither were those sent out on loan. I'm not criticising individuals because most gave everything for the cause. The one thing you can't criticise this team for is effort. If the quality was there as you have suggested  I would expect our  offensive players to be linked with moves away this summer. Well they weren't good enough for the division so I expect they will still be with us in August.

I don't think Parker was helpless with attacking choices. There are plenty of championship teams that get promoted with the same players and manage just fine. It's the manager who changes things drastically and expects that these square pegs will fit into round holes. The obvious choices were there, but Parker got over-creative and over-coached our players to something they weren't.

The players not being of quality is a convenient argument to the result of our season. At the time, however, most were feeling good with the likes of Mitrovic, Lookman, RLC, Cairney and even Cav. I also don't buy into Parker having his hands tied when his hands were supposed to be involved in the process - which is something that was reported when we hired the man.

Recruiting has their one shot, one window, to get the players the manager wants. The manager then has 7 days a week for 38 (more or less) weeks to find answers to the questions.

If Parker had consistently set up players in their obvious positions, and the results were the same, then I'd put my hand up and say - give him another chance - but he didn't. He did so much tinkering to the point that no one could isolate what the true problem was with the team.

also, end of the season in the championship Parker said we don't want wholesale changes and getting in a load of players repeating the same mistakes, he got what he wanted

Quote from: Whitestone on May 24, 2021, 08:07:19 PM
Recruitment is the one single issue that tied Parker's hands. You can talk tactics and formations all day long but most of the offensive players available to the manager were just weren't good enough. Neither were those sent out on loan. I'm not criticising individuals because most gave everything for the cause. The one thing you can't criticise this team for is effort. If the quality was there as you have suggested  I would expect our  offensive players to be linked with moves away this summer. Well they weren't good enough for the division so I expect they will still be with us in August.

Recruitment ties all our hands if we are responsible for running a business.  You make a business attractive by having a clear objectives, a strategy/plan to achieve them, and then invite people to participate in the task of making it all come together.   If you do not get the fine detail right in your plan you will not attract the right people to help fulfill the plan.  For a football team the easy bit is to make it obvious what you are aiming to do and show commitment by having the right people in the right jobs already.  If that is a fail then why would a good person want to risk failure by choosing you over a better prospect?  The fine detail of a business sells itself when it can be seen shining through all the other dross that is around and you don't need a third rate salesperson giving you spiel.

A head coach whether involved in recruitment or not has to work with what they have and solve problems as they go along.  Jokanovic proved it can be done but the poorer the recruitment is the harder and longer it proves to solve the problems.  Parker had two whole seasons where he didn't solve more than two thirds of the issues and actually made matters worse because he kept doing the wrong things.  Jokanovic never blamed recruitment for failure he simply commented upon the fact that he was told it was nothing to do with him.  He turned the Martin loan into a success.  He improved many players and didn't waste time on those he believed were not going to make themselves better professionals.  He had a much tougher time than Parker and he was up to the task in ways Parker can only dream about.

Quote from: SouthIslandWhite on May 23, 2021, 08:16:30 PM
Well I am obviously in the minority here, but I cannot see Big Sam as a step in the right direction. I vote: keep Scott.

Maybe a tad controversial, but I'd go to Big Sam over Parker any day of the week.
Since he arrived at WBA they've played their best football for two seasons imo

Quote from: Matt10 on May 24, 2021, 06:44:41 PM
At the start of the season, Parker's system was a 4-2-3-1 and no wingbacks, in particular not placing our wingers from the championship as wingbacks (Cav, BDR). We were built for a high possession 4-2-3-1 that had an identified playmaker in Cairney, and even StefJo towards the end of the champ season.

Parker shifted the tactical goalposts AFTER the first transfer window finalized, immediately wanting a more mobile striker than Mitro - hence...enter Cavaleiro. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 5-4-1/3-4-2-1 counter-attacking team. Even if fit, there was no longer room for our creative playmaker in Cairney. Parker then received his mobile striker in Maja and chose not to start him consistently. He rarely placed Maja and Mitro together when we needed goals - and both these players had more than 1 goal to their name. Other than RLC and Lemina, our central midfielders could not score goals.

It's a bit hard for me to blame recruiting this year. The quality was there, the goalposts were shifted by the manager, and recruiting ends up looking bad because he forced players into a system that he did not have any experience using. I've said it before, but if players were as bad as people say, then Parker would know to keep things very simple and focused on 1 player = 1 position = attack/defend task. Why he complicated such simple tasks is inexcusable.

  Strangely as we have had many differences of opinion I agree with you Matt. I know TK is inexperienced and made mistakes, as I know the majority of those on here who are pro Parker blame everything on Tk.
  At the start of this season no one can dispute the priority was the defence. It may have been late, for whatever speculative reasons people may wish to believe, but recruitment delivered with a far better defence than we have had for a while.
  As Matt says the system was set up for 4-2-3-1, which had Mitro as the spearhead, I for one thought that looked pretty good, but the it was all changed to a formation that would never suit Mitro.
  The clamour then was for a forward to be bought in the January window, I am sure I read we made a bid for moussa dembele 2 that was turned down. In fact during the January window all over football there were few deals completed probably due to circumstance.
  Therefore suddenly this board has all the blame down to recruitment,of which Parker is a part, for our relegation. I really do believe we had a squad capable of staying up, I put the majority of the blame on a manager who does put square pegs in round holes and is stifled by his fear of losing, this has led him to a catch 22 situation whereby his thought process is stopping him winning games.
  If we are to move forward I feel the major decision now is 1/ decide what pattern of play we intend to adopt. 2/ then as we know we have to rebuild ,buy players that will suit the style we decide to play.
  I see no point in keeping Parker on a 10 game look see as has been suggested as a new manager will no doubt wish to play a different way. They all like buying players.
  Personally I think we need a change as I really do not want to watch the style of football Parker gives me, I agree with many we should rebuild to stay rather than rush to go up and yoyo back down again.
  As well as a forward or 2 if Mitro and Zambo goes , boy are we in trouble in midfield, only really Reed, Cairney who I cannot see playing a season injury free and the other project Onomah, fills me with dread.
  Just an opinion trying to be as fair as I can.

Quote from: Skatzoffc on May 25, 2021, 08:24:36 AM

Quote from: SouthIslandWhite on May 23, 2021, 08:16:30 PM
Well I am obviously in the minority here, but I cannot see Big Sam as a step in the right direction. I vote: keep Scott.

Maybe a tad controversial, but I'd go to Big Sam over Parker any day of the week.
Since he arrived at WBA they've played their best football for two seasons imo

I am not a big Sam fan but what he does is make his team's aggressive. By this I mean attack, get balls in the box and people in the area. Pace and strength, playing direct. This always creates problems for opposition. WBA lacked quality and conceded a lot as well which led to their relegation. However, we could learn some lessons and adjust tactics. Other teams are more successful with similar. Look at Burnley, Brighton and Leeds and the way they play the ball forward early. We are slow moving the ball and play sideways and backwards. This definitely needs to change if we are to push for promotion again. I would like to see us more direct and attack minded. A lot of this comes down to our manager and the way he sets us up.

Quote from: Jules on May 25, 2021, 11:20:00 AM

Quote from: Skatzoffc on May 25, 2021, 08:24:36 AM

Quote from: SouthIslandWhite on May 23, 2021, 08:16:30 PM
Well I am obviously in the minority here, but I cannot see Big Sam as a step in the right direction. I vote: keep Scott.

Maybe a tad controversial, but I'd go to Big Sam over Parker any day of the week.
Since he arrived at WBA they've played their best football for two seasons imo

I am not a big Sam fan but what he does is make his team's aggressive. By this I mean attack, get balls in the box and people in the area. Pace and strength, playing direct. This always creates problems for opposition. WBA lacked quality and conceded a lot as well which led to their relegation. However, we could learn some lessons and adjust tactics. Other teams are more successful with similar. Look at Burnley, Brighton and Leeds and the way they play the ball forward early. We are slow moving the ball and play sideways and backwards. This definitely needs to change if we are to push for promotion again. I would like to see us more direct and attack minded. A lot of this comes down to our manager and the way he sets us up.

Agreed

My point exactly.

I have been saying for months we move the ball forward too slowly.
You cannot win a game if you don't score!

He should depart.  Next season we will rely on players who he consistently overlooked in a 28 point season.  They aren't daft and will know that three early losses will see the back of him, a man who doesn't rate them.  Better to have a shot at redemption with a new man before we start dropping points.

When Parker was interviewed after promotion he reflected that the first thing he needed to do was restore a culture of winning into a side on a dreadful run.  He's just presided over his own dreadful run.  There are surely better candidates for achieving the culture shift we hope for.

If Parker hadn't agreed to be Tony's stooge he would still be coaching Spurs U18 or at best Stevenage.

He knew what he was signing up to and everything in the last 6 months, including coached TV interviews spouting the same disconnected jargon, has been to promote 'Brand Scotty'. Hence the media love-in and demand from Bournemouth, etc.

In reality he is no more adept than, say, Woodgate. His experience has been gained at Fulham's expense and he should continue his education elsewhere...

Parker made his statement for his continuence as manager of Fulham F.C., by laying down and going out the Premier League with a miserable whimper.

He is not fit to manage Fulham - I would opt for a Jokanovic return, if not "Big Sam".

Quote from: Mickeyboro on May 25, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
If Parker hadn't agreed to be Tony's stooge he would still be coaching Spurs U18 or at best Stevenage.

He knew what he was signing up to and everything in the last 6 months, including coached TV interviews spouting the same disconnected jargon, has been to promote 'Brand Scotty'. Hence the media love-in and demand from Bournemouth, etc.

In reality he is no more adept than, say, Woodgate. His experience has been gained at Fulham's expense and he should continue his education elsewhere...

It isn't any replacement going to be just another stooge if they are to last under Tony?

Quote from: Mickeyboro on May 25, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
If Parker hadn't agreed to be Tony's stooge he would still be coaching Spurs U18 or at best Stevenage.

He knew what he was signing up to and everything in the last 6 months, including coached TV interviews spouting the same disconnected jargon, has been to promote 'Brand Scotty'. Hence the media love-in and demand from Bournemouth, etc.

In reality he is no more adept than, say, Woodgate. His experience has been gained at Fulham's expense and he should continue his education elsewhere...

I'm not certain how SP is both a stooge for TK AND the cheerleader for 'Brand Scotty', that appears to be a conflict in itself. Unless, of course, TK's plan all along was to promote 'Brand Scotty', which I would doubt very much so.

Quote from: Logicalman on May 28, 2021, 12:35:08 PM

Quote from: Mickeyboro on May 25, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
If Parker hadn't agreed to be Tony's stooge he would still be coaching Spurs U18 or at best Stevenage.

He knew what he was signing up to and everything in the last 6 months, including coached TV interviews spouting the same disconnected jargon, has been to promote 'Brand Scotty'. Hence the media love-in and demand from Bournemouth, etc.

In reality he is no more adept than, say, Woodgate. His experience has been gained at Fulham's expense and he should continue his education elsewhere...

I'm not certain how SP is both a stooge for TK AND the cheerleader for 'Brand Scotty', that appears to be a conflict in itself. Unless, of course, TK's plan all along was to promote 'Brand Scotty', which I would doubt very much so.

He has used this as a leg up to launch his career at a higher level than he deserved.

Working with Tony was a stone in his stylish shoe that became a boulder.

Quote from: Twig on May 28, 2021, 10:56:48 AM

Quote from: Mickeyboro on May 25, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
If Parker hadn't agreed to be Tony's stooge he would still be coaching Spurs U18 or at best Stevenage.

He knew what he was signing up to and everything in the last 6 months, including coached TV interviews spouting the same disconnected jargon, has been to promote 'Brand Scotty'. Hence the media love-in and demand from Bournemouth, etc.

In reality he is no more adept than, say, Woodgate. His experience has been gained at Fulham's expense and he should continue his education elsewhere...

It isn't any replacement going to be just another stooge if they are to last under Tony?

Sadly, yes. That is why Tony must stand down.

Well the season finished a week ago and no news about Scott leaving, looks to me as if he is staying unless Spurs make a move for him.

They won't. Levy isn't That stupid

Quote from: blingo on May 28, 2021, 05:03:40 PM
They won't. Levy isn't That stupid

For once, regarding SP, I agree totally Blingo!  :033:

Quote from: Logicalman on May 29, 2021, 01:09:11 PM

Quote from: blingo on May 28, 2021, 05:03:40 PM
They won't. Levy isn't That stupid

For once, regarding SP, I agree totally Blingo!  :033:

I worry when you agree with me Mr Logical

Both Parker and Tony Khan need to go. That combo ain't going to work if we are going to sustain ourselves in the premier league. Tony's too busy with other things. It can never be more than a watching brief with him. People with senior watching briefs have loads of experience and knowledge and really understand their brief. Without it you have disaster which is what we have.
I feel sorry for Parker in some respects but his approach, tactics and philosophy are boring, dull and I can't stomach another season like the last one in the championship- I fell asleep at games several times.

Scott Parker was not a great player and is a poor football team manager, he may be a great bloke to play/work for. I think I was a good man manager but I wasn't a great engineer. Agood engineer but not top table. He hasto go and the soonerthe better .

Quote from: Dunstable Fulham on May 29, 2021, 09:37:26 PM
Both Parker and Tony Khan need to go. That combo ain't going to work if we are going to sustain ourselves in the premier league. Tony's too busy with other things. It can never be more than a watching brief with him. People with senior watching briefs have loads of experience and knowledge and really understand their brief. Without it you have disaster which is what we have.
I feel sorry for Parker in some respects but his approach, tactics and philosophy are boring, dull and I can't stomach another season like the last one in the championship- I fell asleep at games several times.

I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly regarding TK. He must and surely will relinquish some of his responsibilities. Fortunately it does look like the club recognise that with the recruitment a Director of Scouting. The football under Parker has been sooo boooooring but it did get us to the Prem so it can't be totally disregarded. If he is to succeed in management he surely must change his philosophy and play to win. Two or three key signings this summer with the retention of Anguissa and Mitro would significantly help.

Quote from: Whitestone on May 30, 2021, 12:04:20 AM

Quote from: Dunstable Fulham on May 29, 2021, 09:37:26 PM
Both Parker and Tony Khan need to go. That combo ain't going to work if we are going to sustain ourselves in the premier league. Tony's too busy with other things. It can never be more than a watching brief with him. People with senior watching briefs have loads of experience and knowledge and really understand their brief. Without it you have disaster which is what we have.
I feel sorry for Parker in some respects but his approach, tactics and philosophy are boring, dull and I can't stomach another season like the last one in the championship- I fell asleep at games several times.

I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly regarding TK. He must and surely will relinquish some of his responsibilities. Fortunately it does look like the club recognise that with the recruitment a Director of Scouting. The football under Parker has been sooo boooooring but it did get us to the Prem so it can't be totally disregarded. If he is to succeed in management he surely must change his philosophy and play to win. Two or three key signings this summer with the retention of Anguissa and Mitro would significantly help.

I agree - if Parker will adapt and become more attack minded I would be happy to see him stay. I very much fear that he won't. I also have concerns about his man management skills and ability to get the best out of our attacking players. Given this we can't  afford to mess up the firs half of next season and the make
a change. I would rather get somebody in who will hit the ground running with this stuff.

Quote from: Dodger53 on May 29, 2021, 10:37:53 PM
Scott Parker was not a great player and is a poor football team manager, he may be a great bloke to play/work for. I think I was a good man manager but I wasn't a great engineer. Agood engineer but not top table. He hasto go and the soonerthe better .

Not a great player ? He played for some top teams in the Premier League and England.

The football in the Championship under Parker was dull but he did get us promoted so that's a positive. After last season I totally understand why people want him gone. I'm not against it but not 100% convinced it's the way forward.

Look, I've had my say about Parker. My main issue with him was man management and making illogical choices in the PL. I was a fan of him in the championship, and since we're back there, I'm still a fan.

I posted this the other day to show just how good our attack can be. Yes, that's Knockaert stealing the ball. Look at how many numbers we have in the box. This is what was missing in the PL.

Back when Parker actually went for it instead of playing not to lose. #FFC pic.twitter.com/wtflKWMeKB

— Matt10 (@Matt10L) May 27, 2021

Parker will only be 'attack minded' when and if he is capable of changing his coaching philosophy.  He has already demonstrably shown he is not capable - he had games with zero hanging on them to experiment and he was a fail the whole time.  His man management capability flows  through time and is never set in stone.  The players who get his nod have appreciated his loyalty, as expected, but they haven't delivered any more than he has.  There is no safety in numbers where incompetency is concerned and it only survives when the top person has an agenda other than that clearly stated. 

If the Khans have any honesty and logic in their reasoning and decision making both Parker and the younger Khan will admit to falling very short of reasonable expectation for two whole seasons and be accepting of dismissal and replacement.  Perhaps then the Club will recruit people who can deliver to expectation.  I just hope that when the Khans do find a decent head coach, this time they will retain them and not unwisely sack them because their agenda says they can.