As Fulham fans, you can't help notice how our support is slated each week. Play at home and the comments are about our lack of numbers and passionless support, away it's about how few have made the trip. Personally, I think Fulham fc has had an almost unique set of circumstances that have lead to our current situation, a 'Perfect storm' if you like.
Firstly Fulham is a tiny area of London to draw supporters from when compared to most other clubs traditional fanbases.
I grew up, went to school, as many of you may have done, in Fulham and Hammersmith, There was zero chance of me being able to afford a local property in the area as in the late 80s and early 90s Fulham was well on the gentrification band wagon. I only know of one person from my growing up days who still lives in the borough who owns a property, the other few live in rented and council accommodation. By far the vast majority, like myself have moved well away from Fulham and even west London, I now live 54 miles by road from Fulham fc, I live in a very small town that is more like a village, there are 6 season ticket holders here that I know of. My late teenage kids only ever go to about 5 games a year as traditionally they have played sport on Saturdays and taking children to evening games means they would have got home way too late for school the next day.
At the same time Fulham fc (never a big club) went into a downward spiral and as we know, struggled to survive for the best part of a generation with crowds down to record lows.
We have Chelsea, one of the big 6, QPR, for many years more successful during the 80s and 90s, Brentford, still surrounded by a large working class area, although that is changing, Wimbledon, making a very good come back, all on our doorstep.
When I look at who sits around me now in the Hammersmith end at Fulham, it is a real mix, old school and a multitude of people who didn't grow up locally, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Scottish and Eastern European. This Newer mix can only be a good thing for our beloved club, as without them there would be many more empty seats! these newer supporters could also be the reason some of that passion and noise is missing, they do not have that historical chain of learning and singing those songs that many of us had.
I am always disappointed by the comments from other clubs supporters, who have very little knowledge and probably even less though about why our support is like it is. I have travelled to about 75 to 80 away grounds following Fulham, most of those grounds set in largely hardcore working class areas, many deprived areas with lots of post industrial hardship, communities and families that have lived in the area for many generations, the local football club being one of very few focuses for those living there.
I do try to explain to other teams supporters when then bring up the subject of our poor support, why I believe we are what we are, but when you take everything into consideration, I think it's amazing we get the support we do.
I would add, we have been very quiet in recent games at home which has been disappointing, the only time I saw any real passion was the banter with the Bristol city supporters on Saturday. It really would have been fun to let them stay and suffer the second half, most people were disappointed they didn't come back as apart from a handful of supporters it was quite a humorous episode.
I would be interested in your thoughts.
Completely agree, I tend to get absorbed in the game so have little time for banter with the away fans even though I sit near them.
Having seen the interior scale of the new stand, I think it's going to be a real game changer in terms of our club's status & finance. I've no idea what sort of fans we'll attract but if it equates to a bigger transfer kitty then it's good for me.
Personally I don't necessarily agree with the criticism so, whilst I don't disagree with your analysis, I don't think any explanation is required. We attract a decent gate by Championship standards and in the Prem we often sell out the ground (except when playing utterly disastrously a la Parker).
Our away support can often be heard loud and proud so just because we are a relatively well behaved bunch who don't shout homophobic abuse or racist nonsense, doesn't mean we lack passion. I think some people mistake bigotry and drunkenness for "passion" and it's rank lazy thinking.
If you want an example of our "passion", look no further than the campaign to save us from Fulham Park Rangers or the efforts made to enable us to return to a refurbished Cottage from QPR. This is real passion, a willingness to put in voluntary time and effort for a cause.
People literally never take into account the amount of professional football clubs in London we're competing with to attract supporters to Fulham. It's so stupid to ignore this and we're competing with 6 London PL teams and that's without factoring in London championship teams.
It's never a very well thought out criticism.
I don't blame people for wanting to watch arse and all,spuds,and those horrible blues ahead of us. And that's without talking about the others lol.
It really is a competitive market and we do nothing to stand out apart from our ground really...
It's surprising if it takes 5-6 minutes before the library song comes out , when I started going in the 80's the atmosphere seemed terrible but then there were barely 3500 people there.It has got a little better through the premier league era but that's just because there are more fans.
Watching on TV last night some of the songs are started and peter out after one verse / round , a few years ago I could hear Leeds fans singing "We all love Leeds" 10 minutes from the ground and they sung for 20 minutes non stop , it almost makes me think why bother that what was such a poor effort at maintaining a song.
The bloke in the last year or two with the foghorn voice in the Hammy End bellowing out Scotty Parkers black and white army was terrible because no one liked Parker so only about 14 people joined in
Away games are different the fans were great at Reading away OK we were 3-0 up at the time but I just don't think we are that bothered and that is quite embarrassing at home games.
The Bristol City fans in the executive box above H7 that celebrated loudly when they scored on Saturday wouldn't have made it out of Elland Road alive , I'm not suggesting we beat anyone up but we're not exactly nasty are we , opposing teams love the whole day out at the cottage it's hardly a fortress.
The bloke that sits in front of me said to his his friend next to him when told the City lot hadn't come out of the box for the second half said "What Bristol City fans" despite 30-40 people all around him giving them stick as we came back and every goal went in , what bubble was he in ?
I can think of about 7 or 8 occasions in 40 years of watching Fulham I remember a great atmosphere Derby playoff game was the last one , when I started going it was an older man's club with blokes smoking pipes now there's loads more younger fans but we still don't sing.We tend to react when we are playing really well only in my opinion.
I work with Brentford fans and I'm sure we've all heard the jokes about our fans being called Piers and Rupert , my grandparents lived in Fulham Court just round the corner from Stamford Bridge in a working class area , Fulham is not the same any more.Even the shithole that is Brentford is getting posher now with apartments going up all around their new ground it's no longer just a bus stop in Hounslow.
Not many working class people if there's any left in Fulham could ever hope to afford to live there now I think our support reflects that , sorry if some of that seems a bit harsh I think it just mirrors modern day life in our changing towns.
I would just like to add that no English club has a great atmosphere. Zero. Nil. Not compared to like a bottom half bundesliga team even...the culture is unfortunately completely different. European football culture is just so superior in terms of atmosphere/fun it's not really up for argument.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:09:27 PM
I would just like to add that no English club has a great atmosphere. Zero. Nil. Not compared to like a bottom half bundesliga team even...the culture is unfortunately completely different. European football culture is just so superior in terms of atmosphere/fun it's not really up for argument.
Agree things like the Poznan , all the bouncing up and down and proper singing doesn't happen as much here.
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:13:33 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:09:27 PM
I would just like to add that no English club has a great atmosphere. Zero. Nil. Not compared to like a bottom half bundesliga team even...the culture is unfortunately completely different. European football culture is just so superior in terms of atmosphere/fun it's not really up for argument.
Agree things like the Poznan , all the bouncing up and down and proper singing doesn't happen as much here.
I don't care what all the boring,old,dinosaurs on this board think. If we had a proper ultras section by the nearest corner flag to the Thames up the Hammersmith end it would be so fun. And would attract new,younger fans which we desperately need. Some people's football mindset is stuck ridgedly in a previous century and it saddens me.
Football is supposed to be fun and entertaining,while bringing people together. Well that's my opinion anyway.
People are allowed there's...☺
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
That's iterally the whole point of ultras...lol
Often when fans from other clubs criticise our support, what the are effectively saying is that we are generally civil, not shouting c### every 2 minutes and not looking to abuse away fans for 90 mins simply because they happen to support a different team. So yes, there is less noise.
The same type of people would probably say our 'fans' at Reading were 'quality' for throwing bin bags around and smashing seats.
I take the criticism of our support with a pinch of salt.
I always thought we had a pretty good away support - make a good noise, even if not the numbers of other Champ. teams.
That's how it seems to me, either being amongst them at a game, or hearing them on TV.
I think away teams get max fans coming to the Cottage - it's a day out in London, a bit of a holiday, against hated Londoners - perceived as privileged and ruling over them, and at the iconic Cottage in its very pleasant surroundings and area- and these fans are always really up for it, probably with a good drink inside them.
Most teams probably have a number of London based fans too, ie fans from that area, taking the chance to see their team, who have moved to London to work or study, rather than the plastic Mancs and Scousers of those elite clubs.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:22:25 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:13:33 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:09:27 PM
I would just like to add that no English club has a great atmosphere. Zero. Nil. Not compared to like a bottom half bundesliga team even...the culture is unfortunately completely different. European football culture is just so superior in terms of atmosphere/fun it's not really up for argument.
Agree things like the Poznan , all the bouncing up and down and proper singing doesn't happen as much here.
I don't care what all the boring,old,dinosaurs on this board think. If we had a proper ultras section by the nearest corner flag to the Thames up the Hammersmith end it would be so fun. And would attract new,younger fans which we desperately need. Some people's football mindset is stuck ridgedly in a previous century and it saddens me.
So if I don't agree with you I'm a "Boring, old, dinosaur". So I guess it's ok to call you a naive, young, idiot.
Personally I think that when the time comes for the Hammy and Putney ends to be upgraded/reworked however you want to look at it, we need to seriously consider putting in a lower tiered section with the new railed seating to allow for standing and creating a bit of atmosphere down the front of the stand. It's really annoying how we've got the back 5 rows of the hammy end who are the only ones making noise and singing and they get moaned at by stewards for standing up. We're not the noisiest bunch at the best of times and we moan at the ones who do try and get a bit of atmosphere going
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 19, 2022, 10:39:37 PM
Personally I think that when the time comes for the Hammy and Putney ends to be upgraded/reworked however you want to look at it, we need to seriously consider putting in a lower tiered section with the new railed seating to allow for standing and creating a bit of atmosphere down the front of the stand. It's really annoying how we've got the back 5 rows of the hammy end who are the only ones making noise and singing and they get moaned at by stewards for standing up. We're not the noisiest bunch at the best of times and we moan at the ones who do try and get a bit of atmosphere going
+1 exactly
Quote from: Twig on January 19, 2022, 10:37:30 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:22:25 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:13:33 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:09:27 PM
I would just like to add that no English club has a great atmosphere. Zero. Nil. Not compared to like a bottom half bundesliga team even...the culture is unfortunately completely different. European football culture is just so superior in terms of atmosphere/fun it's not really up for argument.
Agree things like the Poznan , all the bouncing up and down and proper singing doesn't happen as much here.
I don't care what all the boring,old,dinosaurs on this board think. If we had a proper ultras section by the nearest corner flag to the Thames up the Hammersmith end it would be so fun. And would attract new,younger fans which we desperately need. Some people's football mindset is stuck ridgedly in a previous century and it saddens me.
So if I don't agree with you I'm a "Boring, old, dinosaur". So I guess it's ok to call you a naive, young, idiot.
Your style of support is dying and everyone with a braincell can see that. I'm not attacking you personally it's just so clear to what way football support/supporters are trending to in the future. And you can rail against it all you want but ultra-esque support is what will attract new fulham fans imo.
And I like to think i'm pretty switched on to what young football fans go for these days. Just saying...
I agree with almost all of what the original poster said, very astute observations. I would add a few more thoughts though as to why we are either sometimes quiet/ don't always travel in big numbers *OR* give that impression (I'm not 100% sure it's completely accurate):
1. I think you overestimate the noise and passion at other clubs. Most grounds are quite quiet these days. Football and society has changed a lot in the last 20 or so years. Brentford, QPR, Chelsea are no different. The average league game at Man U and Liverpool is *very* quiet, even if they can still raise it for the very big matches. Every away fan sings songs about libraries and sh1t support wherever they go. It's not just at us.
2. Craven Cottage. I love it. But the accoustics are terrible. Sound just doesn't retain in the stadium. It makes it seem much quieter than it actually is. Sometimes it is really rocking in the Hammersmith End and I've got mates down at the Putney End who say they didn't hear it.
3. The gentrification of the area that happened in the 80s and 90s coincided with our demise as you said. There were a lot of geezers/ rowdy working class types who either moved out of the area or started to watch Chelsea instead. I'm aware of a lot of fans who would follow Fulham in the 60s and 70s but didn't want to watch lower league football in front of a few thousand in the 80s and 90s and so started going down the Bridge (and to a lesser extent down Loftus Road). Their offspring would then be brought up to follow Chelsea so I think we lost a proportion of our noisy fan demographic and the subsequent family connections in the 80s and 90s... The amount of geezer Chelsea fans I've met who are your typical 'loudest bloke in the flat roof pub' or who were the loud, naughty kid at school (in the 80s and 90s) who told me their grandad/uncle/dad used to support Fulham but they were taken to Chelsea instead because Fulham were so sh1t as a kid is unreal.
4. I would guess that Fulham's support is the furthest from its home ground out of any club in the country. This means that there is less of a feeling that people are coming to 'our' area/town that we need to defend/ make hostile, in the way a club like say, Stoke would. It also means that away games are less fun sometimes because people are coming from such a wide area they can't travel together (in my group they are coming from Surrey, Sussex, West Country, Zone 6 West London and South London for example)... which makes the appeal of travelling long distances on a beano with your mates less attractive because a large proportion of the day won't actually be with your mates, you'd just be meeting them there or close to it... As a result our away support fluctuates in numbers rather than is constantly terrible or brilliant. Sometimes we travel with several thousand sometimes it drops down to a few hundred. Having such a dispersed support is a big reason for that.
5. I think we have a much older fan base than most others. We were well supported in the 50s and 60s but due to our lean years we didn't pick up many new fans in the 80s and 90s, links were broken and so we have lots of fans who began watching in the 50s, 60s and 70s... they are all quite old now! Old people tend to be quieter.
6. Your point about our crowd being a real mix of people is a very good one. In some ways it is really nice. Young and old. Lots of women. Foreigners - especailly Yanks and Antipodeons, old-school working class fellas, middle class chaps, reasonable numbers of ethnic minorities, a fair few anoraks, families etc. It is like a complete slice of London life and it makes for a nice friendly atmosphere but it is not a 'united mass of blokes representing their club as one'. That is what all clubs used to be and some, say Leeds or Millwall, still are to a large extent, and that makes for a louder crowd.
7. Linked to all of this... WHEN we go up, the worst thing the club could do is raise the ticket prices. They absolutely must reserve a load of tickets that are cheaper. They should definitley have cheaper tickets for 16 - 26 year olds. This age bracket tends to have less cash but are also the most likely to create an atmosphere. It would be madness to price them out. I also think it would be mad if the club did not embrace the opportunity to bring back a safe standing section. This, in my opinion, would do wonders for the atmosphere at the ground.
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 19, 2022, 10:39:37 PM
Personally I think that when the time comes for the Hammy and Putney ends to be upgraded/reworked however you want to look at it, we need to seriously consider putting in a lower tiered section with the new railed seating to allow for standing and creating a bit of atmosphere down the front of the stand. It's really annoying how we've got the back 5 rows of the hammy end who are the only ones making noise and singing and they get moaned at by stewards for standing up. We're not the noisiest bunch at the best of times and we moan at the ones who do try and get a bit of atmosphere going
100% agree with this.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
That's iterally the whole point of ultras...lol
They are excellent , on another note does anyone know the words to the Thomas Frank is a sex offender song I heard I sit too far away from the back 5 rows to hear !!
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
That's iterally the whole point of ultras...lol
They are excellent , on another note does anyone know the words to the Thomas Frank is a sex offender song I heard I sit too far away from the back 5 rows to hear !!
"Fulham boys are on a bender,
Thomas Frank is a sex offender."
You gotta say, that's quality rhyming.
Quote from: Samjack on January 19, 2022, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
That's iterally the whole point of ultras...lol
They are excellent , on another note does anyone know the words to the Thomas Frank is a sex offender song I heard I sit too far away from the back 5 rows to hear !!
"Fulham boys are on a bender,
Thomas Frank is a sex offender."
You gotta say, that's quality rhyming.
Lovely stuff...
When I'm picking up fares - I always ask what team.... You wouldn't believe the amount of people that have season tickets for Fulham & Chelsea (or another)..... A lot of people don't like football, and there's a large rugby support....when Man U or Liverpool play abroad a lot of people go to the airport for an overnight...... And England at Wembley the corporate lot get there about 3 hour's before k/o.... Sport generally is a cab driver's friend
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on January 19, 2022, 11:47:31 PM
When I'm picking up fares - I always ask what team.... You wouldn't believe the amount of people that have season tickets for Fulham & Chelsea (or another)..... A lot of people don't like football, and there's a large rugby support....when Man U or Liverpool play abroad a lot of people go to the airport for an overnight...... And England at Wembley the corporate lot get there about 3 hour's before k/o.... Sport generally is a cab driver's friend
+1 Interesting perspective
Quote from: Samjack on January 19, 2022, 11:14:37 PM
I agree with almost all of what the original poster said, very astute observations. I would add a few more thoughts though as to why we are either sometimes quiet/ don't always travel in big numbers *OR* give that impression (I'm not 100% sure it's completely accurate):
1. I think you overestimate the noise and passion at other clubs. Most grounds are quite quiet these days. Football and society has changed a lot in the last 20 or so years. Brentford, QPR, Chelsea are no different. The average league game at Man U and Liverpool is *very* quiet, even if they can still raise it for the very big matches. Every away fan sings songs about libraries and sh1t support wherever they go. It's not just at us.
2. Craven Cottage. I love it. But the accoustics are terrible. Sound just doesn't retain in the stadium. It makes it seem much quieter than it actually is. Sometimes it is really rocking in the Hammersmith End and I've got mates down at the Putney End who say they didn't hear it.
3. The gentrification of the area that happened in the 80s and 90s coincided with our demise as you said. There were a lot of geezers/ rowdy working class types who either moved out of the area or started to watch Chelsea instead. I'm aware of a lot of fans who would follow Fulham in the 60s and 70s but didn't want to watch lower league football in front of a few thousand in the 80s and 90s and so started going down the Bridge (and to a lesser extent down Loftus Road). Their offspring would then be brought up to follow Chelsea so I think we lost a proportion of our noisy fan demographic and the subsequent family connections in the 80s and 90s... The amount of geezer Chelsea fans I've met who are your typical 'loudest bloke in the flat roof pub' or who were the loud, naughty kid at school (in the 80s and 90s) who told me their grandad/uncle/dad used to support Fulham but they were taken to Chelsea instead because Fulham were so sh1t as a kid is unreal.
4. I would guess that Fulham's support is the furthest from its home ground out of any club in the country. This means that there is less of a feeling that people are coming to 'our' area/town that we need to defend/ make hostile, in the way a club like say, Stoke would. It also means that away games are less fun sometimes because people are coming from such a wide area they can't travel together (in my group they are coming from Surrey, Sussex, West Country, Zone 6 West London and South London for example)... which makes the appeal of travelling long distances on a beano with your mates less attractive because a large proportion of the day won't actually be with your mates, you'd just be meeting them there or close to it... As a result our away support fluctuates in numbers rather than is constantly terrible or brilliant. Sometimes we travel with several thousand sometimes it drops down to a few hundred. Having such a dispersed support is a big reason for that.
5. I think we have a much older fan base than most others. We were well supported in the 50s and 60s but due to our lean years we didn't pick up many new fans in the 80s and 90s, links were broken and so we have lots of fans who began watching in the 50s, 60s and 70s... they are all quite old now! Old people tend to be quieter.
6. Your point about our crowd being a real mix of people is a very good one. In some ways it is really nice. Young and old. Lots of women. Foreigners - especailly Yanks and Antipodeons, old-school working class fellas, middle class chaps, reasonable numbers of ethnic minorities, a fair few anoraks, families etc. It is like a complete slice of London life and it makes for a nice friendly atmosphere but it is not a 'united mass of blokes representing their club as one'. That is what all clubs used to be and some, say Leeds or Millwall, still are to a large extent, and that makes for a louder crowd.
7. Linked to all of this... WHEN we go up, the worst thing the club could do is raise the ticket prices. They absolutely must reserve a load of tickets that are cheaper. They should definitley have cheaper tickets for 16 - 26 year olds. This age bracket tends to have less cash but are also the most likely to create an atmosphere. It would be madness to price them out. I also think it would be mad if the club did not embrace the opportunity to bring back a safe standing section. This, in my opinion, would do wonders for the atmosphere at the ground.
Samjack, All very good points, I am an older supporter, I would love to see standing only areas for those who wish to gather and sing. Singing is infective, The louder it is the more join in. Having a good atmosphere at a ground is one of the things that draws people in and want to return. The group I sit with all came to the conclusion that Saturday was quieter than normal and even Tuesday night was quite reserved considering we won both by great score lines.
The club will definitely have to consider keeping prices lower for younger members, it's all very well, taking the money of those who wish to come and see any premiership football while it is with us, but at some stage we need to think of future generations coming to the cottage. I would like to think that the increased attendance coming soon will allow for more youngsters to attend for a reduced price.
The fact is that any home crowd these days is typically quiet unless there is something in particular to rouse them. I don't go to too many away games though but I thought the Molineux Crowd was good the last time we played them. Not too many day trippers in the home crowd for that one
I always wonder what players like Muniz think when they come to England, the home of football, maybe expecting fireworks and finding it tame in comparison.
But again that said, I went to a few games in Latin America when I was younger and for all the atmosphere no-one is paying attention to what's happening on the pitch and its the same with the ultras in Europe whereas here, the oohs and aahs and crowd tension more intensely echo and follow what's happening on the pitch with the whole crowd following the game intently and that might create a different sort of atmosphere for the players. That's my impression of the differences anyway
Quote from: flyingfish on January 20, 2022, 10:53:39 AM
The fact is that any home crowd these days is typically quiet unless there is something in particular to rouse them. I don't go to too many away games though but I thought the Molineux Crowd was good the last time we played them. Not too many day trippers in the home crowd for that one
I always wonder what players like Muniz think when they come to England, the home of football, maybe expecting fireworks and finding it tame in comparison.
But again that said, I went to a few games in Latin America when I was younger and for all the atmosphere no-one is paying attention to what's happening on the pitch and its the same with the ultras in Europe whereas here, the oohs and aahs and crowd tension more intensely echo and follow what's happening on the pitch with the whole crowd following the game intently and that might create a different sort of atmosphere for the players. That's my impression of the differences anyway
Good point
Quote from: Samjack on January 19, 2022, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 19, 2022, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
That's iterally the whole point of ultras...lol
They are excellent , on another note does anyone know the words to the Thomas Frank is a sex offender song I heard I sit too far away from the back 5 rows to hear !!
"Fulham boys are on a bender,
Thomas Frank is a sex offender."
You gotta say, that's quality rhyming.
Ha ha thanks !
Quote from: Deeping_white on January 19, 2022, 10:39:37 PM
Personally I think that when the time comes for the Hammy and Putney ends to be upgraded/reworked however you want to look at it, we need to seriously consider putting in a lower tiered section with the new railed seating to allow for standing and creating a bit of atmosphere down the front of the stand. It's really annoying how we've got the back 5 rows of the hammy end who are the only ones making noise and singing and they get moaned at by stewards for standing up. We're not the noisiest bunch at the best of times and we moan at the ones who do try and get a bit of atmosphere going
It's not the standing up that's the problem - we all have to stand - it's the gathering on the stairs and bundling when we score that's the problem.
Quote from: fluffyninja on January 19, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
They are another lot that don't shut up !
Quote from: SP on January 19, 2022, 10:16:46 PM
The Palace style Ultras receive universal praise but would do my head in. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of the German games I've been to but it can feel a little contrived IMO.
A lot of Palace ST holders were moved out of the seats they'd had for years so that the Ultras could all sit together.
Indeed they were, when they moved them to behind the goal rather than down in the lower left-hand corner. Club were virtually blackmailed into letting them move as well, from what I heard.
My biggest concern is the club is doing zero,nothing,nil,zip to attract new/younger fans to FFC and it's a great worry to me.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 20, 2022, 12:14:12 PM
My biggest concern is the club is doing zero,nothing,nil,zip to attract new/younger fans to FFC and it's a great worry to me.
What can a club do in a marketing capacity to attract youngsters? It's a family thing, it's a mates thing, it's an area thing.
I disagree entirely that they do nothing- reduced tickets are just one thing they can do, and we do it.
What's on offer on the pitch is pretty high for entertainment. 2 promotions of late (inc play off win) and heading for our third. Took decades of watching to get that amount of promotions in the 70s, 80s & 90s.
Quote from: Jim© on January 20, 2022, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 20, 2022, 12:14:12 PM
My biggest concern is the club is doing zero,nothing,nil,zip to attract new/younger fans to FFC and it's a great worry to me.
What can a club do in a marketing capacity to attract youngsters? It's a family thing, it's a mates thing, it's an area thing.
I disagree entirely that they do nothing- reduced tickets are just one thing they can do, and we do it.
What's on offer on the pitch is pretty high for entertainment. 2 promotions of late (inc play off win) and heading for our third. Took decades of watching to get that amount of promotions in the 70s, 80s & 90s.
I do agree with a lot of what you said but there's still so much that can/could be done if they were smarter or bothered. The promotion of modern/European fan culture or being better on the social media side. That's not to say our sm side is bad but it could be better. An idea for the club would be to try to colaborate more with some of our a-list fans to get more FFC world/UK exposure. Just an idea...☺
But personally I think the promotion of more European fan culture is the most important to attract local young fans to FFC. Something other clubs don't offer is incredibly important in this competitive London football market we find ourselves in.
Fulham was, in my younger days, a working class area, although the patch of residential housing running down to Bishops Park and Fulham Palace towards the southern end of Fulham Palace Road were always affluent or marginally upmarket. The parallel roads closer to Hammersmith were solidly working class.
Gentrification was well under way in the mid-sixties as properties in Chelsea became scarce. A girlfriend's parents were, at that time, being subjected to harassment and intimidation for daring to rent a substandard basement flat in Fulham Road. They were eventually paid to move on. 'Hillsborough' and the Taylor Report made matters worse with standing and casual attendance at games eventually banned. Football was no longer a cheap and cheerful Saturday afternoon entertainment except at the lower levels.
As others have said we do well to get the attendances we achieve in the current climate. It remains to be seen what Fulham Pier achieves for village life along what was always an artisan part of Hammersmith and Fulham (Barons Court, Hammersmith, and out to Chiswick and beyond). I hope it succeeds to bring in a new and growing generations of local supporters for FFC .
The songs have GONE.
Quote from: Ashington White on January 20, 2022, 12:11:53 PM
Indeed they were, when they moved them to behind the goal rather than down in the lower left-hand corner. Club were virtually blackmailed into letting them move as well, from what I heard.
The ultras sent back their STs because they would be sitting all over the ground. Apparently the atmosphere was crap so the club caved in moved a lot if other STs out of their seats so they would all be together. Great way to treat long standing supporters.
Not sure about the ultras in view of the recent 'stampeding' incidents at away matches.
One of the previous posters touched the attendance of minorities at the Cottage. Whilst a small number do attend if one considers the diaspora within London the numbers are far below what they should be. On an economic and more importantly on a social cohesion level the club need to be focusing here ensuring that all find the matchday experience comfortable and entertaining. Having the ownership and more than half the team from minorities should give them a good start.
While the young attending matches is great, it probably more important that they take part in sport rather than watch it.
Quote from: Colton F.C. on January 20, 2022, 05:39:42 PM
Not sure about the ultras in view of the recent 'stampeding' incidents at away matches.
One of the previous posters touched the attendance of minorities at the Cottage. Whilst a small number do attend if one considers the diaspora within London the numbers are far below what they should be. On an economic and more importantly on a social cohesion level the club need to be focusing here ensuring that all find the matchday experience comfortable and entertaining. Having the ownership and more than half the team from minorities should give them a good start.
While the young attending matches is great, it probably more important that they take part in sport rather than watch it.
Jesus... 😂🆘
Here in the States at MLS matches most of the teams have an "ultra-fan" section usually located behind one of the goals. There is no designated standing section, but large portions of the fans stand the whole time. Most of those fans will sit down or switch seats though to accommodate fans who do not stand and can't see the pitch. My local MLS team has 5 different fan groups. The one I am familiar with but do not belong to is called the Footie Mob. You see them in the home supporter's area singing, bouncing, and clapping nonstop for the entire match. I have taken friends from England and Europe, and they are amazed at the atmosphere during these matches.
Even with all that nonstop bouncing and craziness, you never see anyone hurting by other fans with so called "limbs". Personally, I don't like sitting in the home supporter's area as I can't stand for that whole time, and I can't see what is happening on the pitch half the time. However, I think it's brilliant and love seeing the support the fans give players.
Not sure I have seen anything like this in any of my visits to the cottage :023:
My short response is the allegations just don't match the facts. Our home attendances are more than decent and average noticably more than the mini man united, QPR. The only defense is apparently it's all tourists a truly bizarre statement.
Success on the pitch, particularly being in the Prem, will attract crowds of all ages, and ethnicities, as can be seen by looking at Fulham's fortunes over the years.
That will attract crowds more than any other intervention, though it probably helps re women and other groups, that Fulham has a reputation as a safe place to watch football, and the club is probably right to pursue its policy of promoting the 'family club' aspect of Fulham.
Many traditional, and even new young, fans have found football beyond their means in recent times - when I was young it was a cheap entertainment for, mainly, working -class men, and now it has definitely become more middle-class, and many are excluded through financial reasons.
Though, going to away games, you can still feel a bit like you're treated as 'scum', and acting like traditional football fans, ie being a bit drunk and loud - with singing, chants etc., rather than commiting criminal damage or assault, is sort of frowned on, and closely monitored, though these fans create the atmosphere.
But it's like all aspects of gentrification - has good and bad points.
Good points might be - more women feel comfortable to go to a game, better selection of food and drink, better facilities - well, they used to be a lot worse! less violence - but is this coming back to an extent?
Negative aspects might be - poorer atmosphere, fans more like a hyper-critical audience of a film or play, rather than passionate fans, supporting the club through thick and thin, less fan support for each other because they're 'one of our own' and more conflict between fans of the same club.
Noticeable, that clubs with the most old style fans, creating a passionate atmosphere that can really help their teams get results, are in working-class areas, like Palace, in London - where long term residents of these areas are themselves under threat from gentrification.
Quote from: love4ffc on January 20, 2022, 06:43:04 PM
Here in the States at MLS matches most of the teams have an "ultra-fan" section usually located behind one of the goals. There is no designated standing section, but large portions of the fans stand the whole time. Most of those fans will sit down or switch seats though to accommodate fans who do not stand and can't see the pitch. My local MLS team has 5 different fan groups. The one I am familiar with but do not belong to is called the Footie Mob. You see them in the home supporter's area singing, bouncing, and clapping nonstop for the entire match. I have taken friends from England and Europe, and they are amazed at the atmosphere during these matches.
Even with all that nonstop bouncing and craziness, you never see anyone hurting by other fans with so called "limbs". Personally, I don't like sitting in the home supporter's area as I can't stand for that whole time, and I can't see what is happening on the pitch half the time. However, I think it's brilliant and love seeing the support the fans give players.
Not sure I have seen anything like this in any of my visits to the cottage :023:
American ultra culture is just copied from European culture so don't be coming here pretending the americucks invented it😂 teehee (JK)
Quote from: love4ffc on January 20, 2022, 06:43:04 PM
Here in the States at MLS matches most of the teams have an "ultra-fan" section usually located behind one of the goals. There is no designated standing section, but large portions of the fans stand the whole time. Most of those fans will sit down or switch seats though to accommodate fans who do not stand and can't see the pitch. My local MLS team has 5 different fan groups. The one I am familiar with but do not belong to is called the Footie Mob. You see them in the home supporter's area singing, bouncing, and clapping nonstop for the entire match. I have taken friends from England and Europe, and they are amazed at the atmosphere during these matches.
Even with all that nonstop bouncing and craziness, you never see anyone hurting by other fans with so called "limbs". Personally, I don't like sitting in the home supporter's area as I can't stand for that whole time, and I can't see what is happening on the pitch half the time. However, I think it's brilliant and love seeing the support the fans give players.
Not sure I have seen anything like this in any of my visits to the cottage :023:
Having lived in the US and having attended many MLS games, this is orchestrated nonsense, designed to deflect attention away from the dross on the pitch.
I had season tickets at The Earthquakes, dull, dull, dull...whoever we played.
But I will be at Stoke on Saturday....our support is just great....maverick and great
Quote from: Hugh Gentry on January 20, 2022, 08:24:39 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on January 20, 2022, 06:43:04 PM
Here in the States at MLS matches most of the teams have an "ultra-fan" section usually located behind one of the goals. There is no designated standing section, but large portions of the fans stand the whole time. Most of those fans will sit down or switch seats though to accommodate fans who do not stand and can't see the pitch. My local MLS team has 5 different fan groups. The one I am familiar with but do not belong to is called the Footie Mob. You see them in the home supporter's area singing, bouncing, and clapping nonstop for the entire match. I have taken friends from England and Europe, and they are amazed at the atmosphere during these matches.
Even with all that nonstop bouncing and craziness, you never see anyone hurting by other fans with so called "limbs". Personally, I don't like sitting in the home supporter's area as I can't stand for that whole time, and I can't see what is happening on the pitch half the time. However, I think it's brilliant and love seeing the support the fans give players.
Not sure I have seen anything like this in any of my visits to the cottage :023:
Having lived in the US and having attended many MLS games, this is orchestrated nonsense, designed to deflect attention away from the dross on the pitch.
I had season tickets at The Earthquakes, dull, dull, dull...whoever we played
Thank you! MLS is still a horribly low quality product. Even I'd the football media try to spin it otherwise. Some of the defending you see...it didn't really even surprise me that Liam Ridgewell was successful over there.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 20, 2022, 08:27:27 PM
Quote from: Hugh Gentry on January 20, 2022, 08:24:39 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on January 20, 2022, 06:43:04 PM
Here in the States at MLS matches most of the teams have an "ultra-fan" section usually located behind one of the goals. There is no designated standing section, but large portions of the fans stand the whole time. Most of those fans will sit down or switch seats though to accommodate fans who do not stand and can't see the pitch. My local MLS team has 5 different fan groups. The one I am familiar with but do not belong to is called the Footie Mob. You see them in the home supporter's area singing, bouncing, and clapping nonstop for the entire match. I have taken friends from England and Europe, and they are amazed at the atmosphere during these matches.
Even with all that nonstop bouncing and craziness, you never see anyone hurting by other fans with so called "limbs". Personally, I don't like sitting in the home supporter's area as I can't stand for that whole time, and I can't see what is happening on the pitch half the time. However, I think it's brilliant and love seeing the support the fans give players.
Not sure I have seen anything like this in any of my visits to the cottage :023:
Having lived in the US and having attended many MLS games, this is orchestrated nonsense, designed to deflect attention away from the dross on the pitch.
I had season tickets at The Earthquakes, dull, dull, dull...whoever we played
Thank you! MLS is still a horribly low quality product. Even I'd the football media try to spin it otherwise. Some of the defending you see...it didn't really even surprise me that Liam Ridgewell was successful over there.
Exactly, I saw Ridgewell a couple of time, it was a stroll for the exceedingly average 36 year old, but the ultras still trolled out their hymn sheet
MLS....New England...absolutely dreadful stadium,, dreadful atmosphere, (actually, no atmosphere). A few years ago I went to a game, first time in about 10 years, hoping the quality of football had improved. How wrong was I. Mistake ridden game, we left midway through the 2nd half. I have not been back since or watched any on tv.
Occasionally, I did see an entertainer or two. One game, Ian Bishop, (ex west ham) age 36 was playing for the opposition. Without breaking sweat, he dominated the midfield spraying Johnny Haynes like passes all over the pitch. I recall he did not make one mistake and was a joy to watch.
As far as the cottage is concerned, best stadium in the country. All away teams and fans love going there. Magazine 442 had the best stadiums in UK, Fulham came 4th from 100. Not all were professional grounds but those with character. I played at 2 of them in the Sussex county league.
I've got to be honest, disappointed with our effort of only selling 800 tickets for Saturday with the form we are in, you can understand the Micky taking
Quote from: Worcesterwhite on January 20, 2022, 09:29:45 PM
I've got to be honest, disappointed with our effort of only selling 800 tickets for Saturday with the form we are in, you can understand the Micky taking
Would love to be going to Stoke on Saturday but too much family stuff going on, I'll be there in spirit.
Quote from: Worcesterwhite on January 20, 2022, 09:29:45 PM
I've got to be honest, disappointed with our effort of only selling 800 tickets for Saturday with the form we are in, you can understand the Micky taking
Welcome to being a Fulham fan...we aren't a big club,so we don't have big support
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 20, 2022, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: Worcesterwhite on January 20, 2022, 09:29:45 PM
I've got to be honest, disappointed with our effort of only selling 800 tickets for Saturday with the form we are in, you can understand the Micky taking
Welcome to being a Fulham fan...we aren't a big club,so we don't have big support
No we don't have the biggest fan base, but the form we are in I would have expected a few more than normal, Stoke is not the most pleasant destination however and is bloody freezing at the best of times, I best get the thermals on for Saturday!
Taking 949 to Stoke in January is pretty good IMO, glad they were suitably rewarded.
My problem with the present day Ultras is that it just feels too orchestrated and doesn't reflect what is going on on the pitch. To me an Ultra will always be a mad Italian stripped to the waist, standing proudly on a barrier, arms outstretched and with a lit flare in each hand inciting the whole crowd to bellow for 90 minutes. But that's just me.
To be fair, our younger fans streamed through the turnstiles yesterday singing a song I hadn't heard before and which they may well have thought up on the coach and all credit to them if they did. To the tune of ABBA's Super Trooper, it got a good airing throughout the match. Not sure I got the words 100% correct, and apologies if someone has already posted it elsewhere, but it went something like:-
Harry Wilson, Mitrovic, Kebano
Play in black and white
Scoring goals all night
Because the Championship is sh*te
Well, it amused me and is a decent example of how good football songs are organic and reflect what is going on, or has recently gone on, on the pitch rather than the more planned and formulaic songsheets the modern Ultras tend to use.
Quote from: Ara's bacon crisps on January 23, 2022, 01:05:57 PM
My problem with the present day Ultras is that it just feels too orchestrated and doesn't reflect what is going on on the pitch. To me an Ultra will always be a mad Italian stripped to the waist, standing proudly on a barrier, arms outstretched and with a lit flare in each hand inciting the whole crowd to bellow for 90 minutes. But that's just me.
To be fair, our younger fans streamed through the turnstiles yesterday singing a song I hadn't heard before and which they may well have thought up on the coach and all credit to them if they did. To the tune of ABBA's Super Trooper, it got a good airing throughout the match. Not sure I got the words 100% correct, and apologies if someone has already posted it elsewhere, but it went something like:-
Harry Wilson, Mitrovic, Kebano
Play in black and white
Scoring goals all night
Because the Championship is sh*te
Well, it amused me and is a decent example of how good football songs are organic and reflect what is going on, or has recently gone on, on the pitch rather than the more planned and formulaic songsheets the modern Ultras tend to use.
That's pretty good!
...and better than chants calling random managers sex offenders and chant about Jose Mourihno's mother.
Quote from: love4ffc on January 20, 2022, 06:43:04 PM
Here in the States at MLS matches most of the teams have an "ultra-fan" section usually located behind one of the goals. There is no designated standing section, but large portions of the fans stand the whole time. Most of those fans will sit down or switch seats though to accommodate fans who do not stand and can't see the pitch. My local MLS team has 5 different fan groups. The one I am familiar with but do not belong to is called the Footie Mob. You see them in the home supporter's area singing, bouncing, and clapping nonstop for the entire match. I have taken friends from England and Europe, and they are amazed at the atmosphere during these matches.
Even with all that nonstop bouncing and craziness, you never see anyone hurting by other fans with so called "limbs". Personally, I don't like sitting in the home supporter's area as I can't stand for that whole time, and I can't see what is happening on the pitch half the time. However, I think it's brilliant and love seeing the support the fans give players.
Not sure I have seen anything like this in any of my visits to the cottage :023:
Great stuff!!
Quote from: Ara's bacon crisps on January 23, 2022, 01:05:57 PM
My problem with the present day Ultras is that it just feels too orchestrated and doesn't reflect what is going on on the pitch. To me an Ultra will always be a mad Italian stripped to the waist, standing proudly on a barrier, arms outstretched and with a lit flare in each hand inciting the whole crowd to bellow for 90 minutes. But that's just me.
To be fair, our younger fans streamed through the turnstiles yesterday singing a song I hadn't heard before and which they may well have thought up on the coach and all credit to them if they did. To the tune of ABBA's Super Trooper, it got a good airing throughout the match. Not sure I got the words 100% correct, and apologies if someone has already posted it elsewhere, but it went something like:-
Harry Wilson, Mitrovic, Kebano
Play in black and white
Scoring goals all night
Because the Championship is sh*te
Well, it amused me and is a decent example of how good football songs are organic and reflect what is going on, or has recently gone on, on the pitch rather than the more planned and formulaic songsheets the modern Ultras tend to use.
Agreed. They have their backs to the pitch half the time. Atmosphere can come in all kinds of ways, like the tension before a free kick. Prefer atmosphere to actually be a chorus to what's happening on the pitch
Our support does not travel well, I don't think it ever really has. Back in the 60's the fans went to the Cottage or to that lot up the road, depending who was at home. They still defined themselves as Fulham or Chelsea. In my younger days in the 70s I remember the half-time scores were read out, and the announcer would ask if any Chelsea fans were here today. Those who were would cheer, and he would then read out their score. If they were losing or drawing we would cheer, if not, our friends would cheer again.
The likes of Stoke will claim that they take 4,000 to the Cottage, so why do we only take 1,000 away? Well, how many Fulham fans live within 20 miles of Stoke? Not many, I'd bet. How many Stoke fans live in London? A few hundred, a few thousand? That will boost their numbers. My nearest ground is Cambridge United. In the past I was local (across the road, virtually) to Luton's ground. I always went to those away games. Just going to a home game now is the equivalent of an away trip. I suspect a large portion of our fan base is in a similar position. It all adds up to a "poor" away showing, but I'll be damned if I will make excuses or apologise for it. We are who we are and do not have to explain ourselves to anyone. Not even those of our own who don't like it.
Quote from: Ara's bacon crisps on January 23, 2022, 01:05:57 PM
My problem with the present day Ultras is that it just feels too orchestrated and doesn't reflect what is going on on the pitch. To me an Ultra will always be a mad Italian stripped to the waist, standing proudly on a barrier, arms outstretched and with a lit flare in each hand inciting the whole crowd to bellow for 90 minutes. But that's just me.
To be fair, our younger fans streamed through the turnstiles yesterday singing a song I hadn't heard before and which they may well have thought up on the coach and all credit to them if they did. To the tune of ABBA's Super Trooper, it got a good airing throughout the match. Not sure I got the words 100% correct, and apologies if someone has already posted it elsewhere, but it went something like:-
Harry Wilson, Mitrovic, Kebano
Play in black and white
Scoring goals all night
Because the Championship is sh*te
Well, it amused me and is a decent example of how good football songs are organic and reflect what is going on, or has recently gone on, on the pitch rather than the more planned and formulaic songsheets the modern Ultras tend to use.
Well done who came up with the new song, it soon caught on and was sung on numerous occasions throughout the game
'Ultras' is such a pathetic word.
I really think the new stand and promotion will bring new fans to the club and really could transform the club.
Quote from: SP on January 23, 2022, 10:54:12 AM
Taking 949 to Stoke in January is pretty good IMO, glad they were suitably rewarded.
1120 actually.
Don't get to many away games these days (young kids) but took my eldest to her first away game at Peterborough this season... have just looked at Barnsley away and train tickets are £84 for me and £49 for her... so for match tickets and train it's going to be about £160. I would go to many more away games if it was bit cheaper.
Quote from: Cookie6262 on January 24, 2022, 11:55:19 AM
Don't get to many away games these days (young kids) but took my eldest to her first away game at Peterborough this season... have just looked at Barnsley away and train tickets are £84 for me and £49 for her... so for match tickets and train it's going to be about £160. I would go to many more away games if it was bit cheaper.
+1 prices are bananas. Rail fares these days are absolutely unacceptable and definition of daylight robbery.
Southern rail are predators...
