NFR Messy Belgians

[sipwell]

I have to admit that Belgians are very lousy at forming governments and now it seems we are even more lousy at reorganizing the football competition. Since news coverage on the island probably blocks everything which isn't vaguely related to the Great Island of Britannia I will explain the mad idea the Belgian football teams just had.

Note: it is a good ol' Belgian compromise


Currently Belgium Division 1 (top league) has a play off system. After the regular competition (three more games) the top 6 teams see the points they collected halved. They play on (with half of the points they gathered throughout the regular competition) for the championship title. I still do not grasp what they do with the half points (e.g. if you end up with 25,5) as it is calculated on the basis of wins and goals. The 6 teams below that (7 till 14) are placed in two groups and play for one Europa League ticket. They lose all their points. How many people did I lose yet? Right! Numbers 15 and 16 decide in a best of five who is demoting directly and who is playing a Final Round with numbers 2,3 and 4 of our second division. To make things less opaque, number 15 gets 3 points and number 16 0 points. (Fair, isn't it?)

From next season onwards the system will be less complicated as we will decide who demotes based on the results of a team in the last three seasons  :58:
In other words: a team that comes from division 2 will have to reach at least 10th or 11th place, otherwise it will demote to division 2 automatically again. Teams that are already in division 1 have a bigger likelihood of staying in division 1.

En bref:
There is a chance that you don't become the champion if you have won the most games in the regular season.
There is a chance that you don't demote despite ending last in the regular competition.
There is a chance you win a European ticket despite ending 14 and not winning any cup or a fair play league.


Will all those who understand the system (I don't) please stand up?

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Funnily enough the 'aggregate league placing' system that you describe at the end has been used in Brazil quite a lot in recent years, but it is there purely to consolidate to power of the big clubs.

Are any of the traditionally 'big' clubs in trouble this year?

[sipwell]

Yup: Standard is struggling (yet again). Club Bruges is struggling too. Both teams won't make it into play off I I guess. The play off can be exciting though, as the three top teams are not that far apart. But still: why can't they just create a less messy system?

Ideally Belgium would have a Scottish model with 10 teams or so playing in first division. After the regular championship they could organize a BeNeLux league where the best 5 of Belgium compete with the best 5 of Holland (and the worst 5 with the worst 5) for fun and glory.

[finnster01]

My head has just exploded on this thread and I am going to have another sick day today

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Yup: Standard is struggling (yet again). Club Bruges is struggling too. Both teams won't make it into play off I I guess. The play off can be exciting though, as the three top teams are not that far apart. But still: why can't they just create a less messy system?

Ideally Belgium would have a Scottish model with 10 teams or so playing in first division. After the regular championship they could organize a BeNeLux league where the best 5 of Belgium compete with the best 5 of Holland (and the worst 5 with the worst 5) for fun and glory.

That would be great, like a mini-european league (Scotland could enter maybe?) - or, to use the brazil example again, a state championship followed by a 'national' championship of Belgian, Dutch and Scottish clubs.

[ImperialWhite]

Yup: Standard is struggling (yet again). Club Bruges is struggling too. Both teams won't make it into play off I I guess. The play off can be exciting though, as the three top teams are not that far apart. But still: why can't they just create a less messy system?

Ideally Belgium would have a Scottish model with 10 teams or so playing in first division. After the regular championship they could organize a BeNeLux league where the best 5 of Belgium compete with the best 5 of Holland (and the worst 5 with the worst 5) for fun and glory.

That would be great, like a mini-european league (Scotland could enter maybe?) - or, to use the brazil example again, a state championship followed by a 'national' championship of Belgian, Dutch and Scottish clubs.

Bit expensive for Scottish clubs, no? The BeNeLux clubs could all drive to matches, whereas the Scottish ones would have to fly.

[sipwell]

Moreover, Scots don't speak Dutch (yet)!

The plan actually was to create a BeNeFra league, with the Northern French teams (Lille, Lens, ...) , the Belgian top teams and the Dutch teams. But that has gone nowhere!

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Yup: Standard is struggling (yet again). Club Bruges is struggling too. Both teams won't make it into play off I I guess. The play off can be exciting though, as the three top teams are not that far apart. But still: why can't they just create a less messy system?

Ideally Belgium would have a Scottish model with 10 teams or so playing in first division. After the regular championship they could organize a BeNeLux league where the best 5 of Belgium compete with the best 5 of Holland (and the worst 5 with the worst 5) for fun and glory.

That would be great, like a mini-european league (Scotland could enter maybe?) - or, to use the brazil example again, a state championship followed by a 'national' championship of Belgian, Dutch and Scottish clubs.

Bit expensive for Scottish clubs, no? The BeNeLux clubs could all drive to matches, whereas the Scottish ones would have to fly.

Would the Benelux clubs not have to fly to scotland? (albeit less flying than the scottish teams). Works in the Tri-nations I guess.

To be honest, the scottish clubs are desperate to do something to stop falling into complete irrelevancy, and since they cannot join the Prem, I think this would be a good opportunity.

[ImperialWhite]

Moreover, Scots don't speak Dutch (yet)!

The plan actually was to create a BeNeFra league, with the Northern French teams (Lille, Lens, ...) , the Belgian top teams and the Dutch teams. But that has gone nowhere!

What would the French clubs get out of this? No offence to Benelux, but Ligue 1 must be more lucrative than a Benelux league would be?

[ImperialWhite]

Yup: Standard is struggling (yet again). Club Bruges is struggling too. Both teams won't make it into play off I I guess. The play off can be exciting though, as the three top teams are not that far apart. But still: why can't they just create a less messy system? 

Ideally Belgium would have a Scottish model with 10 teams or so playing in first division. After the regular championship they could organize a BeNeLux league where the best 5 of Belgium compete with the best 5 of Holland (and the worst 5 with the worst 5) for fun and glory.

That would be great, like a mini-european league (Scotland could enter maybe?) - or, to use the brazil example again, a state championship followed by a 'national' championship of Belgian, Dutch and Scottish clubs.

Bit expensive for Scottish clubs, no? The BeNeLux clubs could all drive to matches, whereas the Scottish ones would have to fly.

Would the Benelux clubs not have to fly to scotland? (albeit less flying than the scottish teams). Works in the Tri-nations I guess.

To be honest, the scottish clubs are desperate to do something to stop falling into complete irrelevancy, and since they cannot join the Prem, I think this would be a good opportunity.

I suppose - but I'd furious if I was a supporter of a small-medium sized club in Scotland, since the teams that would be left behind would be members of a league that would inevitably decay into a sub-WPL standard.

[sipwell]

Moreover, Scots don't speak Dutch (yet)!

The plan actually was to create a BeNeFra league, with the Northern French teams (Lille, Lens, ...) , the Belgian top teams and the Dutch teams. But that has gone nowhere!

What would the French clubs get out of this? No offence to Benelux, but Ligue 1 must be more lucrative than a Benelux league would be?

Experience. Top level encounters would mean they play once a week a "Europa League" game.

[GoldCoastWhite]

Ditto Finny. My brain hurts just thinking about the permutations...

We only have 11 teams (just reduced to 10) in our A-League so we prolong the season, like to AFL (Aussie Rules) and NRL (Rugby League) by playing a fairly simple play-off system after the season proper. Top 6 went into the playoffs with 1st (my mighty Brisbane boys) playing second over 2 legs. Winner (us) goes straight into the grand final and it's being played at our home ground in Brisbane. Second place, Central Coast Mariners now have to play Gold Coast (finished 4th) after they won their 2 sudden death playoffs against Melbourne Victory (finished 5th)  then Adelaide who finished 3rd. Hoping for a big crowd for the final and I'm flying up to Brisbane, a mere 994 miles or 1600km, Friday week for the game on Sunday. Tickets range from $53aud to $98aud and our dollar is roughly at parity with the greenback or about 60p. I think it's good value but with regular tickets between about $22 and $50 the natives are a bit miffed. It's probably around League 1 quality but it's entertaining and it's ours. Suncorp, our home ground shared with Brisbane Broncos Rugby league Club is way to big for us at 52,000 capacity but hoping for about 40,000 for the final. And I can't wait !

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Yup: Standard is struggling (yet again). Club Bruges is struggling too. Both teams won't make it into play off I I guess. The play off can be exciting though, as the three top teams are not that far apart. But still: why can't they just create a less messy system? 

Ideally Belgium would have a Scottish model with 10 teams or so playing in first division. After the regular championship they could organize a BeNeLux league where the best 5 of Belgium compete with the best 5 of Holland (and the worst 5 with the worst 5) for fun and glory.

That would be great, like a mini-european league (Scotland could enter maybe?) - or, to use the brazil example again, a state championship followed by a 'national' championship of Belgian, Dutch and Scottish clubs.

Bit expensive for Scottish clubs, no? The BeNeLux clubs could all drive to matches, whereas the Scottish ones would have to fly.

Would the Benelux clubs not have to fly to scotland? (albeit less flying than the scottish teams). Works in the Tri-nations I guess.

To be honest, the scottish clubs are desperate to do something to stop falling into complete irrelevancy, and since they cannot join the Prem, I think this would be a good opportunity.

I suppose - but I'd furious if I was a supporter of a small-medium sized club in Scotland, since the teams that would be left behind would be members of a league that would inevitably decay into a sub-WPL standard.

I dont think that would necessarily be the case. Imagine this:

Scotlands 12 teams play each other twice taking the league to just after christmas.
The top 4 then qualify for the BeNeScot league along with the top 4 teams from Belgium and Holland.
The remaining 8 teams then play each other a further two times for a 'league' trophy or alternatively 'join' the scottish second division.

This would enable Rangers, Celtic and two others (probably changing year by year) global exposure. Prize and TV money would be distributed 50% to the teams in the comp with the remaining money split between the SPL clubs left behind. Plus, teams that are not Celtic or Rangers win something!