Schwarzer Wants 5 More Years As Prem Keeper

[michaelread]

He can f**k right off!

England's number one! England's, Englands number one!

I don't want to be disrespectful to Schwarzer because he's been a great servant to the club but in both their current reigns of form Stockdale is better in my opinion, and has the potential to be a better goalkeeper than Mark ever was. I'm stunned that we're not playing David in the EL and we should in the FA & Carling Cup, like Barca did with Pinto during the Copa Del Rey.

I have to disagree with that statement too. Apart from one horrible game - which he will, when time comes, discuss because he wasn't with his mind at the game at all - he has had a very fine season, both for the club and for his national team. And it may come as a shocker but I am not the biggest fan of Stockdale. If Stockdale would be as good as different people say  he is, how come no big club - or club with deep pockets - has come to get him? He is young, he is English and apparently he is better than the long time Australian goalie who gets good marks by all the pundits week after week.

you answered your own question with "He is English"

Stockers WILL be a good keeper. We dont need to rush him though. When the time comes, lets hope its the right time. If he goes to a better club and becomes a world beater, then we can kick the sand and rue the one that got away. Stockdale is happy, Jol is happy, so should we be.

When will his time come though? He'll be 26 this season....

A conglomerate of Schwarzer being not good enough anymore (which hasnt happened) and Stockdale REALLY proving himself (which hasnt happened yet)

I really hope he goes on loan to a prem side, would LOVE him to prove himself. The club is playing it well, if he has a full debut season at 27, we can get a good 10+ years out of him and have a fulham legend.

[Lighthouse]

Poor old Stockdale, the Prince Charles of Fulham.

Never can show he is any good despite all our extra matches. Will play at thirty if he is lucky, He will move on to a club that will play him and Swart will continue his dips in form and we will bring in another keeper.

Still don't understand why Swart is so good we cannot rest him for the odd game.

[michaelread]

He can f**k right off!

England's number one! England's, Englands number one!

I don't want to be disrespectful to Schwarzer because he's been a great servant to the club but in both their current reigns of form Stockdale is better in my opinion, and has the potential to be a better goalkeeper than Mark ever was. I'm stunned that we're not playing David in the EL and we should in the FA & Carling Cup, like Barca did with Pinto during the Copa Del Rey.

I have to disagree with that statement too. Apart from one horrible game - which he will, when time comes, discuss because he wasn't with his mind at the game at all - he has had a very fine season, both for the club and for his national team. And it may come as a shocker but I am not the biggest fan of Stockdale. If Stockdale would be as good as different people say  he is, how come no big club - or club with deep pockets - has come to get him? He is young, he is English and apparently he is better than the long time Australian goalie who gets good marks by all the pundits week after week.

you answered your own question with "He is English"

Stockers WILL be a good keeper. We dont need to rush him though. When the time comes, lets hope its the right time. If he goes to a better club and becomes a world beater, then we can kick the sand and rue the one that got away. Stockdale is happy, Jol is happy, so should we be.

Still doesn't answer my Q. If an English club considers an English player playing for another Prem team to be outstanding, they will go to the end of the world and back to get him (Carroll for instance). Yet Stockdale doesn't seem to be courted by any of the big clubs (or clubs with deep pockets). Isn't it then fair to say that they consider him to be good but not outstanding? And we also have to agree that almost all top clubs have been confronted with a "keeper crisis", in which the current keeper is retiring or close to it (Man U or Chelsea) or close to being sacked (Tottenham/Arsenal), so it isn't a question of "we don't need him". Man U preferred to splash a lot of money on a young goalkeeper who will take one of their "non-home bred" slots.

No no, i mean, why some people on the forum cant see that he is a good player who may well one day be an exceptional player. One eyed patriotism. I have it for schwarz, but at least he is proven. Stockdale will be good but, what justifies being dropped if you are still very capable?

[michaelread]

Poor old Stockdale, the Prince Charles of Fulham.

Never can show he is any good despite all our extra matches. Will play at thirty if he is lucky, He will move on to a club that will play him and Swart will continue his dips in form and we will bring in another keeper.

Still don't understand why Swart is so good we cannot rest him for the odd game.

The "extra matches" havent started yet. Jol is very much treating these games against Runavik as a hit out to get a good look at his players. He said it himself, they are pre season games that are worth something.

[Frankie-Peter Taylor]

What worries me is that we risk losing him because of the lack of football he is being given.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

What worries me is that we risk losing him because of the lack of football he is being given.

Risk losing him to who exactly? He is under contract, and to date, no one has come in a bid silly money for him, especially not anyone who is 'bigger' than us.

He will go on loan next season, and come back as the no.1 - it really is that simple.

[HatterDon]

I have to disagree with that statement too. Apart from one horrible game - which he will, when time comes, discuss because he wasn't with his mind at the game at all - he has had a very fine season, both for the club and for his national team. And it may come as a shocker but I am not the biggest fan of Stockdale. If Stockdale would be as good as different people say  he is, how come no big club - or club with deep pockets - has come to get him? He is young, he is English and apparently he is better than the long time Australian goalie who gets good marks by all the pundits week after week.

It's considered an art, these days, for one side of an argument to pretend that the OTHER side of the argument has little basis. Mr. Sipwell doesn't usually fall into this category, but has done so this time. If you're referring to the Liverpool home match as the "one horrible game," then you must believe that there wasn't criticism THE ENTIRE SEASON of Mark's substandard distribution and his hesitancy in setting up a Fulham counter-attack upon gaining possession. Mark's deterioration in these areas was visible and palpable season long. Many of us pointed it out consistently throughout the season.

Here's the thing. NOBODY among Mark's defenders has responded with, "No, you're wrong. His distribution and his decision making were as brilliant last season as the season before." Instead we get:

1. He only had the one bad match, and we're all judging him on it.
2. Good shot stopping doesn't mean good goalkeeping.
3. Other GKs are older than Mark.
4. People only prefer Stockdale because he's English.

If you want to defend Mark, I think that's wonderful. Banter like this is what sites like these exist for. But, just for a day -- or even one post -- do so without misrepresenting the point of view of those who disagree. Do so without pretending that we (a) have overreacted to the Liverpool match, OR (b) don't understand what good goalkeeping is, OR (c) don't know that keepers mature later and last longer than outfield players, or (d) are English chauvinists. Just for a little while to make an old man very happy.

[TonyGilroy]

There are different opinions of course and neither is necessarily objectively correct.

Jol has to make a decision based on his experience and the information known to him. He can stick with Schwarzer or replace him with Stockdale but the problem is that neither will want to be number 2 and there are no new signings in the transfer window.

I can't see how giving Schwarzer this season with Stockdale proving himself at Swansea can be a bad decision (at the very least maybe the least bad) unless it is certain that Stockdale is NOW a reliable Prem class keeper as good as Schwarzer.

That can be asserted but not known.

[sipwell]

I have to disagree with that statement too. Apart from one horrible game - which he will, when time comes, discuss because he wasn't with his mind at the game at all - he has had a very fine season, both for the club and for his national team. And it may come as a shocker but I am not the biggest fan of Stockdale. If Stockdale would be as good as different people say  he is, how come no big club - or club with deep pockets - has come to get him? He is young, he is English and apparently he is better than the long time Australian goalie who gets good marks by all the pundits week after week.

It's considered an art, these days, for one side of an argument to pretend that the OTHER side of the argument has little basis. Mr. Sipwell doesn't usually fall into this category, but has done so this time. If you're referring to the Liverpool home match as the "one horrible game," then you must believe that there wasn't criticism THE ENTIRE SEASON of Mark's substandard distribution and his hesitancy in setting up a Fulham counter-attack upon gaining possession. Mark's deterioration in these areas was visible and palpable season long. Many of us pointed it out consistently throughout the season.

Here's the thing. NOBODY among Mark's defenders has responded with, "No, you're wrong. His distribution and his decision making were as brilliant last season as the season before." Instead we get:

1. He only had the one bad match, and we're all judging him on it.
2. Good shot stopping doesn't mean good goalkeeping.
3. Other GKs are older than Mark.
4. People only prefer Stockdale because he's English.

If you want to defend Mark, I think that's wonderful. Banter like this is what sites like these exist for. But, just for a day -- or even one post -- do so without misrepresenting the point of view of those who disagree. Do so without pretending that we (a) have overreacted to the Liverpool match, OR (b) don't understand what good goalkeeping is, OR (c) don't know that keepers mature later and last longer than outfield players, or (d) are English chauvinists. Just for a little while to make an old man very happy.

Eloquently put, as always, Mr. Hatter.

Let me utter the following "defence":

firstly, I am not saying that Schwarzer is without flaws. I am saying that people tend to remember that game against Liverpool very vividly when he was - by any standard - below par. It was without doubt the low point of his season but personally I suspect other reasons to be involved (family matters, bad news, ...) for he was completely distracted from the game. His distribution has indeed been poor at times, but I personally would not attribute that to age but to decision-making. Perhaps – under another goalkeeper coach than the years before – there was insufficient training? Perhaps he was told to act so and so? Our illustrious goalkeeper Jean-Marie Pfaff can, at 50+, still throw and kick the ball at the exact spot he wants it to land. If Schwarzer would, yet again, be poor in distribution, then it is time to question him.

secondly, I am not defending Mark Schwarzer. I am merely pointing out that young Stockdale has already a petition running at the Vatican to declare his sanctity. I sincerely doubt the relevance or justness of that. He is probably a decent goalkeeper (note the "probably" because he hasn't played a lot of games), but that's that. Belgium has a tradition of training excellent goalkeepers. Mignolet is 22 and has become first choice at Sunderland. It was his first year – nay his first months – in Premier League football. He has made mistakes but the mere fact that he IS in goal means that his talent is actually considered. Talent always floats on top. A Belgian goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois, playing for a Belgian side, has pushed number 1 goalie (and equally Hungarian international) out of the goal even though he is 18. He is scouted by all major clubs in Europe at the moment and is called the Belgian answer to Van Der Sar. He is in goal not because he is Belgian but because he is the best.
Basically that is the only point I wanted to make. If Stockdale truly was the unbeatable goalkeeper some say he is, how come no major English side has come to buy him, as they do with other talented young players? They splash ridiculous amounts of money on young English players but always seem to overlook Stockdale. Doesn't that lead you to think that he is actually considered to be "not good enough"?


So I don't feel personally addressed when you say the following: "Do so without pretending that we (a) have overreacted to the Liverpool match, OR (b) don't understand what good goalkeeping is, OR (c) don't know that keepers mature later and last longer than outfield players, or (d) are English chauvinists. Just for a little while to make an old man very happy."

The basic line of my argument is: talents always float atop. Regardless of age, number of games played or nationality. If scouts see a sparkle, they are in for a player. If not, they wish the good man all the best and move on.

[Jimpav]

Friedal has recently moved to Spurs at the age of 40 and VDS left us at 36 to reach the pinnacle of his career.

Not sure what the hurry is to get Stockdale playing regularly when we have one of the best keepers in the league playing for us.

By the time Stockdale reaches 40 he will potentially be playing up to the age of 45 - suuch are the improvements in players fitness levels these days.

Too many keepers seem to make the mistake of not having the patience to wait for their turn and ending up worse off. Had Foster stayed at Man U he would have probably been rewarded by filling VD'S boots, instead is he in the Championship with Brum.

[Quills]

Let's face it, Schwarzer's distribution isn't as good as it used to be and, compared to the likes of Reina sparking off attacks down the flanks at Liverpool, he's a bit stodgy on the counter.  This has deteriorated in the past year or so.  He's also a bit too quick to come off his line, but he did that even at Middlesborough I seem to recall.  However when it comes to positioning, shot stopping, and dealing with set pieces he's still excellent.  Stockdale may or may not be as good or better, but we don't know, and that's the point.  The choice for Jol at the moment is:

a) stick with proven safe pair of hands; or
b) ditch safe pair of hands and try young unproven goalie who may (or may not) be just as good (and may be better given time).

The margins are so fine in the PL and the stakes so high how can you justify b) if you still have the brackets?  Let someone else roll the dice - send Stockdale out on loan.

He's still under contract so we're unlikely to lose him permanently and in the meantime we still have MS who is, by any standard, one of the best keepers around, and, finally getting back to the topic, no reason why he can't be as good for quite a while longer.

If Stockdale comes back from Swansea as one of the new stars of the Premiership - then and I think only then will MS just have to go and continue his good work somewhere else, and believe me there are plenty of clubs who'd be very happy to have him.