Put the argument to bed.

[FFC1987]

Again me and a few people were debating about the best FFC defence. I thought it wasn't up for debate that Hughes should always play in front of Senderos if fit. But some disagree pointing at some stats which show what my conclusion was. Senderos better with the ball at his feet but Hughes is defensively more aware, ie. spacially better, marking better and awareness better.

What do you lot think? Especially as now we are being linked with Douglas, is he a replacement for Senderos or a replacement for Hughes or to just add conpetition?

[Zu-Meister]

last season, with kelly at right back, our right side of the defence kinda needed senderos to play the ball, coz neither hughes nor kelly are any good at it. however, jol has signed riether, who as we saw on saturday, is very comfortable with ball at feet, hence us seeing hughes always giving him the ball when in possession. hughes should always start now we have riether. but even without, id rather have hughes who is a better defender.

[Rupert]

Again me and a few people were debating about the best FFC defence. I thought it wasn't up for debate that Hughes should always play in front of Senderos if fit. But some disagree pointing at some stats which show what my conclusion was. Senderos better with the ball at his feet but Hughes is defensively more aware, ie. spacially better, marking better and awareness better.

What do you lot think? Especially as now we are being linked with Douglas, is he a replacement for Senderos or a replacement for Hughes or to just add conpetition?

Put the arguement to bed? No, open the can of worms.

The Senderos-Hughes debate was a pretty spirited one last season and is likely to be so again this time round, and is unlikely to be settled to universal satisfaction until Hughes retires or either is sold.

[FFC1987]

Again me and a few people were debating about the best FFC defence. I thought it wasn't up for debate that Hughes should always play in front of Senderos if fit. But some disagree pointing at some stats which show what my conclusion was. Senderos better with the ball at his feet but Hughes is defensively more aware, ie. spacially better, marking better and awareness better.

What do you lot think? Especially as now we are being linked with Douglas, is he a replacement for Senderos or a replacement for Hughes or to just add conpetition?

Put the arguement to bed? No, open the can of worms.

The Senderos-Hughes debate was a pretty spirited one last season and is likely to be so again this time round, and is unlikely to be settled to universal satisfaction until Hughes retires or either is sold.

So who would you start if both are fit? I genuinely didn't know Senderos had a FFC following.

[Lighthouse]

Brede is a king in the air and ok on the ground but is slow. Hughes reads the game very well and often covers for Bredes little errors. On the other hand Senderos is a fine defender but slow in covering for others and poorer in reading the game than Hughes but better going forward.

With players being linked at centre half. We may need to ask other questions soon.

[Rupert]

If I were the manager, right now I would start with Hughes, but others on here would go for Senderos, and frankly there is not a lot in it.
Hughes looks more secure defensively, though he was a little dodgy in a few games (much as the rest of the team were, lest anyone thinks I'm singling him out) and had a few goals put down to his responsibility. Senderos, according to some, looks like an accident waiting to happen, though when challenged they were usually unable to point out many mistakes of his that cost us goals, I recall one put down to him that I blamed on Brede, so it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Going forward, I think Senderos wins hands down. More aggressive, more comfortable on the ball, far more willing to run at opponents (not a strength of Hughes' game and not something I would want him to try).

The big factor, of course, is age. Hughes is approaching the end of his career, Senderos is approaching the prime of his.

So, yes, Senderos does have a Fulham following, quite aside from the rest of us who want him to do well simply because he is a Fulham player.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Brede is a king in the air and ok on the ground but is slow. Hughes reads the game very well and often covers for Bredes little errors. On the other hand Senderos is a fine defender but slow in covering for others and poorer in reading the game than Hughes but better going forward.

With players being linked at centre half. We may need to ask other questions soon.

Good analysis.

[FFC1987]

If I were the manager, right now I would start with Hughes, but others on here would go for Senderos, and frankly there is not a lot in it.
Hughes looks more secure defensively, though he was a little dodgy in a few games (much as the rest of the team were, lest anyone thinks I'm singling him out) and had a few goals put down to his responsibility. Senderos, according to some, looks like an accident waiting to happen, though when challenged they were usually unable to point out many mistakes of his that cost us goals, I recall one put down to him that I blamed on Brede, so it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Going forward, I think Senderos wins hands down. More aggressive, more comfortable on the ball, far more willing to run at opponents (not a strength of Hughes' game and not something I would want him to try).

The big factor, of course, is age. Hughes is approaching the end of his career, Senderos is approaching the prime of his.

So, yes, Senderos does have a Fulham following, quite aside from the rest of us who want him to do well simply because he is a Fulham player.

By following I meant specifically in accordance to the Senderos vs Hughes. Senderos could be the replacement for Hughes when he retires but for the immediate, and lets face it, this thread was intended to be regarding the here and now scenarios, I can only see Hughes in front of Big Phil. Although like you said, he should be heading to his prime. But with us being linked to Douglas and Hughes looking to have a new contract, where does that leave him?

[aFFCn_Fan]

Hughes would be my pick. I feel more comfortable with him in the back line than Senderos. And I think Brede looks more assured too.

Hughes has been my man of the match a few times, Senderos never (although I'll admit he's grown on me over time). But I think Hughes is a natural body-on-the-line defender, Senderos has a bit of the Arsenal still about him, which looks prettier but he doesn't read the danger so well.   

[AlFayedsChequebook]

This is an argument that will go on till the end of time.

Personally, I am comfortable with both Hughes or Senderos in the line up.

My main problem, and why I am often seen defending Senderos, is that there the 'he is a mistake waiting to happen' line is trotted out all the time in relation to Senderos. There was also the idea that Senderos was making Hangeland into a bad player, which was equally as untrue.

They both have slightly different skill sets -Hughes is a covering defender and Senderos is an aggressive stopper - but ultimately the team performs no differently with either in the side.

So the answer is, they are both as good as each other over the course of the season.

[Reindeer]

We failed to score in ten away games last year.  Toothless at the front, not the back.

The debate is a popularity contest and not based on any statistics.  Both defenders in question had similar records last year and offer the same sort of protection at the back.

If people were being honest, they'd just say "I like Hughes more than Senderos" and not invent some phony BS about Senderos.  It's not fair on the player and it's actually rubbish too if you check the stats.

One thing I would say is that Heitinga replaced fans favourite Jagielka at Everton last year and ended up being their player of the season.  He was also on the bench last night and Jagielka had a stormer.  

Competition is good and it would be great if we got behind ALL of the players.

[FFC1987]

We failed to score in ten away games last year.  Toothless at the front, not the back.

The debate is a popularity contest and not based on any statistics.  Both defenders in question had similar records last year and offer the same sort of protection at the back.

If people were being honest, they'd just say "I like Hughes more than Senderos" and not invent some phony BS about Senderos.  It's not fair on the player and it's actually rubbish too if you check the stats.

One thing I would say is that Heitinga replaced fans favourite Jagielka at Everton last year and ended up being their player of the season.  He was also on the bench last night and Jagielka had a stormer. 

Competition is good and it would be great if we got behind ALL of the players.

I dont think anyone has made up stats or used BS as you put it, more of an opinion. Its about confidence and Big Phil failed to do that for the fans. I think it was because of his reputation at AFC but all i know is, I prefer Hughes because I like how spacially aware he is. No stat, no BS just an old fashioned defender who fits in well within the team.

Within this thread, I don't think anyone has slammed or put him down at all, so the only person with the problem is you Reindeer. I simply wanted to see what the fans views are after a similar debate occured last night. And as for your reference to Everton, that bears no fruit here seeing as it is a very different scenario.

The debate ended with Hughes coming out on top but that was due to his record and history which I think also stems to something AlFayedschequebook says, his reputation or infamous reputation that is at FFC unjust.

And regarding get behind all our players, please find somewhere that actually puts a player down, this is merely about our best 11 not the squad depth so again a redundant argument.

[FFC1987]

Side note, you also failed to highlight if both were fit, who you would pick reindeer.

[fulhamben]

i actuall think big phil reads the game very well, its just his execution that lets him down. time and time again he spots a dangerous pass, tries to cut it out, and  then wipes out the attacker whilst trying to do it. lack of pace maybe the root cause. possibly just clumsy but certainly not because he cant read a game

[Reindeer]

We failed to score in ten away games last year.  Toothless at the front, not the back.

The debate is a popularity contest and not based on any statistics.  Both defenders in question had similar records last year and offer the same sort of protection at the back.

If people were being honest, they'd just say "I like Hughes more than Senderos" and not invent some phony BS about Senderos.  It's not fair on the player and it's actually rubbish too if you check the stats.

One thing I would say is that Heitinga replaced fans favourite Jagielka at Everton last year and ended up being their player of the season.  He was also on the bench last night and Jagielka had a stormer.  

Competition is good and it would be great if we got behind ALL of the players.

I dont think anyone has made up stats or used BS as you put it, more of an opinion. Its about confidence and Big Phil failed to do that for the fans. I think it was because of his reputation at AFC but all i know is, I prefer Hughes because I like how spacially aware he is. No stat, no BS just an old fashioned defender who fits in well within the team.

Within this thread, I don't think anyone has slammed or put him down at all, so the only person with the problem is you Reindeer. I simply wanted to see what the fans views are after a similar debate occured last night. And as for your reference to Everton, that bears no fruit here seeing as it is a very different scenario.

The debate ended with Hughes coming out on top but that was due to his record and history which I think also stems to something AlFayedschequebook says, his reputation or infamous reputation that is at FFC unjust.

And regarding get behind all our players, please find somewhere that actually puts a player down, this is merely about our best 11 not the squad depth so again a redundant argument.

I've heard Senderos heckled throughout a game and Kelly perform worse and not get a mention. I also watch Hughes out-jumped twice at Goodison and the same thing, not a word.

I prefer Senderos at the back based on the following: Chelsea away, Liverpool, Arsenal and Wigan at home.  Phil played a big part in all of those games and certainly affected the outcome.  He is certainly more in line with Jol's idea of attacking football and doesn't rely on the hoof up top.

To be honest, some of the fans wouldn't know a good player if he come along and bit them on the arse.  There is a herd mentality (note the sea-change of opinion on Jol) and unfortunately Phil is bang in the line of vision of the haters.  Jol likes him and judging by the celebrations for his goal last year, so do the players.

[MJG]

Both fit..cup final..it Hughes for me.
I don't dislike Phil, its just a preference for who I consider to be the better player at this time.
Hughes I feel is the calmer player where Senderos seems to be rushing and fidgeting when he's playing. No stats for that im afraid, just 35 years of watching football.

[FFC1987]

We failed to score in ten away games last year.  Toothless at the front, not the back.

The debate is a popularity contest and not based on any statistics.  Both defenders in question had similar records last year and offer the same sort of protection at the back.

If people were being honest, they'd just say "I like Hughes more than Senderos" and not invent some phony BS about Senderos.  It's not fair on the player and it's actually rubbish too if you check the stats.

One thing I would say is that Heitinga replaced fans favourite Jagielka at Everton last year and ended up being their player of the season.  He was also on the bench last night and Jagielka had a stormer.  

Competition is good and it would be great if we got behind ALL of the players.

I dont think anyone has made up stats or used BS as you put it, more of an opinion. Its about confidence and Big Phil failed to do that for the fans. I think it was because of his reputation at AFC but all i know is, I prefer Hughes because I like how spacially aware he is. No stat, no BS just an old fashioned defender who fits in well within the team.

Within this thread, I don't think anyone has slammed or put him down at all, so the only person with the problem is you Reindeer. I simply wanted to see what the fans views are after a similar debate occured last night. And as for your reference to Everton, that bears no fruit here seeing as it is a very different scenario.

The debate ended with Hughes coming out on top but that was due to his record and history which I think also stems to something AlFayedschequebook says, his reputation or infamous reputation that is at FFC unjust.

And regarding get behind all our players, please find somewhere that actually puts a player down, this is merely about our best 11 not the squad depth so again a redundant argument.

I've heard Senderos heckled throughout a game and Kelly perform worse and not get a mention. I also watch Hughes out-jumped twice at Goodison and the same thing, not a word.

I prefer Senderos at the back based on the following: Chelsea away, Liverpool, Arsenal and Wigan at home.  Phil played a big part in all of those games and certainly affected the outcome.  He is certainly more in line with Jol's idea of attacking football and doesn't rely on the hoof up top.

To be honest, some of the fans wouldn't know a good player if he come along and bit them on the arse.  There is a heard mentality (note the sea-change of opinion on Jol) and unfortunately Phil is bang in the line of vision of the haters.  Jol likes him and judging by the celebrations for his goal last year, so do the players.

All I can take from your statement is that you like Phil over Hughes based on 4 performances and Phil gets a hard time and Hughes doesn't.

The FFC fans are nothing to go by, look at the disgraceful chants against Clint. I could point at our incline of form since Hughes got a starting place last season and well, the entire season where we got to the europa final. Your argument again falls flat and your missing the point of it but fair enough, you would play Senderos, thats your prerogative.

I guess I will have to state this again THIS THREAD ISN'T SLATING BIG PHIL AT ALL. Its about team selection. My stance stays, Phil is a good competitive fringe player and Hughes curently is our 2nd choice defender on the team sheet. I follow Phil on twitter and Hughes, they are both good role models and your right, he doesn't deserve the stick he gets from the brain deads on the side line.

Last thing, to say Hughes 'rely on the hoof up top.' just shows your understanding of his game, a completely inaccurate and disrespectful tone in describing a great club servant.

[MJG]

Hughes had a 93% pass rate on saturday..not bad for a hoofer.

[Reindeer]

Both fit..cup final..it Hughes for me.
I don't dislike Phil, its just a preference for who I consider to be the better player at this time.
Hughes I feel is the calmer player where Senderos seems to be rushing and fidgeting when he's playing. No stats for that im afraid, just 35 years of watching football.

OK, so does calmness win the game when your attackers are not scoring?  Man U away and Chelsea away.  0-1 plucky, calm performance or 1-1 central defender pushes up to create the equaliser?

[FFC1987]

Both fit..cup final..it Hughes for me.
I don't dislike Phil, its just a preference for who I consider to be the better player at this time.
Hughes I feel is the calmer player where Senderos seems to be rushing and fidgeting when he's playing. No stats for that im afraid, just 35 years of watching football.

OK, so does calmness win the game when your attackers are not scoring?  Man U away and Chelsea away.  0-1 plucky, calm performance or 1-1 central defender pushes up to create the equaliser?

I think your argument is over pal. Hoofing, enough said. #headsgone