NFR - Lance Armstrong

[Herbie]

I really want to believe that Lance Armstrong is telling the truth, but to give up the opportunity to clear your name, when the fight hasn't even really started, that to me says all you need to know on the matter....

It's disappointing for many reasons if the doping charges are true.

How do you think any repurcussions regarding titles will work?  It must be odd for someone to come along years later and say, 'You know that race where someone finished before you, well actually, he cheated, so you won the race.'.   Without the sensation of crossing line as the winner and taking the rightful place on the top step of the podium, would the title have the same meaning if it was only recognised in the history books?

[MJG]

And then you have the ones who finished 2nd already banned or at least owning up to taking drugs.
It was a dark period for cycling and im not sure if its even worth awarding the results to anyone.

[Senior Supporter]

I really want to believe that Lance Armstrong is telling the truth, but to give up the opportunity to clear your name, when the fight hasn't even really started, that to me says all you need to know on the matter....

It's disappointing for many reasons if the doping charges are true.

How do you think any repurcussions regarding titles will work?  It must be odd for someone to come along years later and say, 'You know that race where someone finished before you, well actually, he cheated, so you won the race.'.   Without the sensation of crossing line as the winner and taking the rightful place on the top step of the podium, would the title have the same meaning if it was only recognised in the history books?

They were speculating on Radio 5 that, as there are also drug suspicions/proof regarding so many of those who finished second, third, etc behind him in those Tours, it may be decided that the results will just be declared void.

I agree it is difficult to believe that Armstrong would give up such treasured and hard earned honours in his sport on the grounds that he was just tired of arguing his case if he is innocent as he has claimed.  

[LBNo11]

...how much does it cost to prove innocence these days..?

[Edwatch_Winston_Malone]

...how much does it cost to prove innocence these days..?

ask O J Simpson...

[Herbie]

I'm not defending him as I think cheaters in any sport should be ashamed of themselves,  but if it is widely known that a lot of people were doping during that period, does it restore the credibility of his 7 TdF titles as it puts it back on a relatively level playing field?  

[General]

Am I the only one who thinks he may very well be innocent? He's been constantly abused in regards to people calling him a cheat. He's been subject to these accusations so many times and has been tested loads too - why can't people just put there hands up and say someone can actually be that driven and successful. Such a shame. He's gone up in my books as a result of today.

[bill taylors apprentice]

I'm not defending him as I think cheaters in any sport should be ashamed of themselves,  but if it is widely known that a lot of people were doping during that period, does it restore the credibility of his 7 TdF titles as it puts it back on a relatively level playing field?  

No, he is a cheating scum bag.
Did you ever see the Seinfield episode called "the boy in the bubble" in it the boy is the most rotten,nasty kid ever but because he is very ill no one will pull him up and speak their mind.
The same with Armstrong, being a cancer survivor he can do no wrong, no one dare speak against the man who had cancer.
He has been very clever at building an image and a team around him that intimidates and threatens any who question his actions.  

[Herbie]

I agree that there still isn't conclusive proof and until that point it will always be a question, but for someone to win that many Tours, they must be pretty driven; especially after his medical history. Throw in the fact that he has a hell of a lot to lose from all this, it seems odd to me that you wouldn't fight to clear your name if you know that you are innocent.

[bill taylors apprentice]

Am I the only one who thinks he may very well be innocent? He's been constantly abused in regards to people calling him a cheat. He's been subject to these accusations so many times and has been tested loads too - why can't people just put there hands up and say someone can actually be that driven and successful. Such a shame. He's gone up in my books as a result of today.

You clearly know very little about the sport or Armstrongs history.

[bill taylors apprentice]

I agree that there still isn't conclusive proof and until that point it will always be a question, but for someone to win that many Tours, they must be pretty driven; especially after his medical history. Throw in the fact that he has a hell of a lot to lose from all this, it seems odd to me that you wouldn't fight to clear your name if you know that you are innocent.

Because the culture across the sport turned a blind eye to the drugs for years from the organizers,the teams, even the cycling press and fans, it was easy to think he could take it to another level and he did.
There IS plenty of evidence, and it will come out when the other cases are dealt with.
Because the Federal investigators got involved due to the US postal team being sponsored with public money those interviewed ( like in the marion jones case ) could not lie anymore as they risked jail for lying under oath.  Up until now everyone just denied, denied, denied and the drug enforcement sports bodies could not break the silence, but the federal agents handed their evidence to them and it was game over.   

[nose]

the problem for armstrong is he had a very serious illness. I can think of no other sportsperson that returns from life threatening surgery etc stronger than before. maybe nearly as good but never better. It is orcam's razor i am afraid, the likihood is he did it I thought it at the time, it was endemic in the sport, it is wherther you get casught. Even if it was drug supported his feat was amazing buy IMO unlikely to be possible if racing clean.
The real problem is the Tour de france is actually too hard and too long to guarantee a

[nose]

the problem for armstrong is he had a very serious illness. I can think of no other sportsperson that returns from life threatening surgery etc stronger than before. maybe nearly as good but never better. It is orcam's razor i am afraid, the likihood is he did it I thought it at the time, it was endemic in the sport, it is wherther you get casught. Even if it was drug supported his feat was amazing buy IMO unlikely to be possible if racing clean.
The real problem is the Tour de france is actually too hard and too long to guarantee a
clean race!

[YankeeJim]

...how much does it cost to prove innocence these days..?

ask O J Simpson...

The question was how much does it cost to prove innocence not how much to get away with murder.

[BarryP]

I have no opinion in this matter because I know too little of the facts but did I hear he has been fighting these charges in some form since 1999?  If so that must have cost a pretty penny.

[RidgeRider]

As many of you know I am deep in the sport and know guys that used to race against him. He made a LOT of money off of the sport and his foundation so he will never have to work again in his life. The drugs he used helped him accumulate a lot of money and in the process he has tried to discredit anyone who has gone against him. He quit because he can't win because he knows what they know now. Sorry but I don't feel for him in the least. Great rider, but a cheat like nearly everyone else in that era (as has been mentioned).

[Logicalman]

Likewise with Barry, I have very little opinion as to how 'guilty' or otherwise Armstrong might be. My only opinion on the whole issue is this:
IF the relevant authorities had/have enough evidence to PROVE Armstrong was/is guilty, then why has he not been found guilty? I liken this, in relation to the question posed by LB, that being: How much does it cost to prove one's innocence? If this was a murder case, then the guy would be prosecuted, if found guilty, then he's guilty, if, however not proved guilty, then the authorities leave it at that.

As I said, I have no idea whether he has been investigated and found not proven, or otherwise, so I am not speaking from any position of authority or particular knowledge, as others are on this matter.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me? (please, no opinions)

[RidgeRider]

They have blood samples from his comeback years, and previously, by utilizing blood passport has shown blood profiles that are consistent with doping. He made payments to the governing body of cycling (UCI) north of $300,000, no other athlete has ever done that and there are at least 4 new eyewitness testimonies of former teammates that will be out soon.

There have already been 3 other teammates that have come forward only to have him try to discredit them. Blood doping is so sophisticated, that athletes have been able to stay ahead of the testing methods for decades. Armstrong had the means and the contacts to consistently beat the tests. Notice he never says he never doped, he always says he has never failed a drug test...those are two different things.

[Logicalman]

They have blood samples from his comeback years, and previously, by utilizing blood passport has shown blood profiles that are consistent with doping. He made payments to the governing body of cycling (UCI) north of $300,000, no other athlete has even done that and there are at least 4 new eyewitness testimonies of former teammates that will be out soon.

There have already been 3 other teammates that have come forward only to have him try to discredit. Blood doping his so sophisticated, that athletes have been able to stay ahead of the testing methods for decades. Armstrong had the means and the contacts to consistently beat the texts. Notice he never says he never doped, he always says he has never failed a drug test...those are two different things.

Thanks RR. I guess I understand it a little more now, still cannot believe they cannot 'convict' him of anything though, as having old blood samples they should be able to prove he did dope at that time. Unless, of course, he was then using drugs that were not banned at the time. Sounds like time to get a 'poacher' in.

[mccscratch]

Lance has always been a cheat...but heck they were all cheating during his run.. I just think he is just a total jerk of a person in general and I have no respect for him...

Happy that a lot of his money has gone to cancer research though.... he frankly has flown too high on borrowed wings...