Will Roy Stay Or Will He Go?

[White Noise]

Henry Winter is the latest journalist saying that Roy will get approaches in the summer but what incentive does he have to move now? Surely there is more he can achieve at Fulham and moves to a bigger club, particularly the much rumoured LIverpool, are fraught with risk at a time when he is everybody's pick to be the next England manager?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/7583370/Henry-Winter-FA-should-be-ashamed-at-the-lack-of-English-managers-in-Premier-League.html


Henry Winter: FA should be ashamed at the lack of English managers in Premier League

Avram Grant's triumph over Harry Redknapp at Wembley echoes the quirky, if worrying stat aired by Uefa that more Israeli managers than English have worked in the Champions League group stage. It's not only the Wembley turf that needs proper cultivating by the FA. It's the field of English management.

By Henry Winter, Football Correspondent

Published: 8:00AM BST 13 Apr 2010

Comments 3 | Comment on this article

Shining light: Fulham's Roy Hodgson has plied his trade all over Europe and is now one of the few English managers enjoying success in the Premier League


The score stands at Israel 4 England 3, although Steve McClaren threatens an equaliser with Twente Enschede (and he has previously led the Dutch into qualifying until running into Arsenal). Ray Harford charged "gung-ho'' into the 1995-96 group stage with Blackburn Rovers and was duly humbled. Phil Thompson steered Liverpool into the 2001 knockout stage during Gerard Houllier's recuperation from heart problems. Sir Bobby Robson led Newcastle United to dine at European football's top table.

Grant heads the Israeli contingent having coached Chelsea in the 2008 final while Itzhak Shum and Elisha Levi (Maccabi Haifa) and Nir Klinger (Maccaibi Tel Aviv) have experienced the group stages, a healthy representation highlighted in the latest Uefa Champions magazine.

Watching Grant outwit Redknapp at the £757 million Wembley merely re-emphasised that English football has its priorities muddled. For a 10th of the outlandish cost of a stadium the FA doesn't need and can't afford, it could already have built the National Football Centre and set up a production line of managerial talent. Intelligent, right-minded people within the FA are driving the Burton project forward but it should have been started years ago, providing a finishing school for managerial aspirants.

The League Managers Association and Professional Footballers Association do encourage English players to graduate into management and Jamie Carragher is one future hope. The LMA has an excellent mentoring programme that involves wise owls of the managerial game advising the younger generation. This commendable practice could so easily be expanded in classrooms at Burton.

Nothing beats hands-on experience, as Roy Hodgson has shown in taking 30 years to become an overnight sensation. After success from Scandinavia to Serie A, Hodgson now has Fulham playing attractive, winning football and here is one English manager who will surely be targeted by admiring, wealthier clubs in the summer. Hodgson has oft stressed his loyalty to Fulham, and is enjoying settling back into his native London after a nomad's existence, but he will get calls.

Liverpool, whose Champions League ambitions were badly damaged by Hodgson on Sunday, could do worse than asking the Englishman to succeed Benítez and promoting Carragher to the management staff when the defender decides his playing days are over. Carragher could learn so much from Hodgson.

Even the best English managers face a battle. Opportunities don't always knock. Despite all the fine work by Hodgson, English managers still suffer from an image problem. Premier League clubs, particularly those with overseas owners, often overlook home-grown candidates, preferring the marquee names of the Continent. For all his impressive work in Holland, McClaren will also struggle to refind employment in the middle to heavyweight end of the Premier League as the wounds remain too raw following his England debacle.

The numbers are embarrassing for the FA. In the blurred world of sporting nationality, England can lay claim to seven English-born Premier League managers: Redknapp, Hodgson, Sam Allardyce, Steve Bruce, Brian Laws, although Barnsley-born Mick McCarthy represented the Republic of Ireland and Hatfield-raised Iain Dowie turned out for Northern Ireland. Italy offers three in the Premier League – Carlo Ancelotti, Roberto Mancini and Gianfranco Zola – as well as the papa of them all in Fabio Capello with England (and Roberto di Matteo soon to boing boing into town with West Brom). Scotland shame England with their production line from Sir Alex Ferguson, David Moyes, Alex McLeish and Owen Coyle. Spain boast two in Benítez and Roberto Martinez while there is one each from France (Arsène Wenger), Northern Ireland (Martin O'Neill), Wales (Tony Pulis) and Israel (Grant).

Wembley's calamity carpet deserves ridiculing but people should really be cutting up rougher over the vexing, damaging issue of why not enough English managers are being nurtured.

[NorfolkJim]

I really think that at the moment only the England job, or perhaps a major football nation like Italy or Germany, could prise Roy away. After Blackburn I think Premiership successes is the only thing he would be out to prove having achieved just about everything a manager could want to achieve.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I really think that at the moment only the England job, or perhaps a major football nation like Italy or Germany, could prise Roy away. After Blackburn I think Premiership successes is the only thing he would be out to prove having achieved just about everything a manager could want to achieve.

I hope you are right. I also hope that the idiots at the FA overlook Roy in favour of a younger coach- harsh perhaps, but I want Roy to stay for a long time yet.

[KCat]

Well we lost one manager to the BIG job .......why not another ????

........................I wonder if Roy applied for the England job before and did not make the cut  ??
I do hope so,  because that would be a very big factor in any future decision he will make.
Those Jimps at the (know Sweet FA ) will look Roy's way if only to feck with Fulham.

[irishjohnnyboy]

When it comes to this kind of topic, I find most supporters are a bit selfish if they have a successful management team. I don't want Roy to leave Fulham but who could deny him if England came calling. That said I doubt very much if Roy will leave Fulham for any other Premiership club.
The club are getting some very good younsters on the verge of coming through and I feel it must excite him to see the work in progress. Roy is a real manager one of those who could not pass a local park if school kids were having a match. He is far more interested in building than buying.
So no I dont think we have much to worry about.

[finnster01]

I worry about Italy who will have a horrible world cup and needs to build a new team. Roy beating Juve, theoretically playing Inter in the Supercup, speaking fluent Italian, he loves the country, and I can actually see him become the first foreign manager of Italy.

[Oakeshott]

Obviously I hope that Roy stays at Fulham until he decides to retire from management.

But I am not at all sure he would be a success as England manager. His success with us is down to three things: a clear idea of what he wants, players happy to operate as he requires, and lots of time to train them to play as required. Of course Roy would take the first to the England set up. But there are a lot of big egos among the current England squad, and I am not at all sure how some would take to Roy's notion of the team being the important thing, not the individual. But most importantly, it took him ages, in his first year with us, to get the team playing as he wanted - only just in time! Would he have enough time with the England squad to drill into them what is required, especially as it is so different from what most do with their clubs day in and day out.

I would hate to see Roy become the England manager and fail. If he was offered the chance he should of course be free to take it, and I suspect he would. But I fear he might regret it, just as I fear Bobby might regret a move to the likes of Liverpool should the offer come his way on the back of his successful season.

[NorfolkJim]

Well we lost one manager to the BIG job .......why not another ????

........................I wonder if Roy applied for the England job before and did not make the cut  ??
I do hope so,  because that would be a very big factor in any future decision he will make.
Those Jimps at the (know Sweet FA ) will look Roy's way if only to feck with Fulham.

Actually Roy was considered previously but passed over and it was given to Capello instead

[TonyGilroy]

Obviously I hope that Roy stays at Fulham until he decides to retire from management.

But I am not at all sure he would be a success as England manager. His success with us is down to three things: a clear idea of what he wants, players happy to operate as he requires, and lots of time to train them to play as required. Of course Roy would take the first to the England set up. But there are a lot of big egos among the current England squad, and I am not at all sure how some would take to Roy's notion of the team being the important thing, not the individual. But most importantly, it took him ages, in his first year with us, to get the team playing as he wanted - only just in time! Would he have enough time with the England squad to drill into them what is required, especially as it is so different from what most do with their clubs day in and day out.

I would hate to see Roy become the England manager and fail. If he was offered the chance he should of course be free to take it, and I suspect he would. But I fear he might regret it, just as I fear Bobby might regret a move to the likes of Liverpool should the offer come his way on the back of his successful season.

I agree with all that completely.

His success organising lesser international teams is not what's required by England for whom only winning is acceptable.

None of us know Roy. He's 62 but for all his prior success it's quite probably only now that he's earning big money. I doubt he got mega bucks managing the likes of Finland or Malmo.

He and his wife (who may be very important in this) may be delighted to be living and working in London but its equally possible that either or both still have wanderlust.

We simply don't know what would be of interest to him.

What I do think possible is there could be a managerial shake up at the top this summer. Ferguson will retire soon and I doubt he'll give notice. Wenger could go to Spain. Rafa could obviously be sacked. Who knows about Mancini. O'Neill seems unhappy and Moyes could be tempted away.

I think we just have to see what happens.

[Tom]

I think Roy will stay.

[cebu]

Roy commented (not that recently, mind you) that he had tried to get the job in the past more than once, but without success. He reckoned then that he'd missed the boat. I can't see Capello resigning voluntarily unless England completely bottle it. I'm guessing that a semi-final placing would make him safe.

I don't think Roy's decision to take on the Fulham job was based on the cash offered, as he could easily have taken the Inter offer for more net pay and less stress.

I think his own feelings on whether the job at Fulham is complete will determine if and when he moves on.

[ImperialWhite]

I think a Semi would make Capello more than safe - there are lots of potential slip ups for England.

1. If Germany mess up and come second in group we face them in ro16 (not that unlikely, they have Serbia/Australia/Ghana).
2. If we mess up and come second we face Germany in ro16 (if USA beat us, could happen).
3.Assuming we win group C, we still have to beat Serbia then France to reach semis.
4. If we only come second, we would have to beat Germany then Argentina to reach semis...

I reckon beating USA might be the most important game of the WC if we want to make the WC a success (and by that I mean not getting dumped out of it in the first ko match).

[ImperialWhite]

Sorry - keeping to topic!

I think Capello is a good manager and England will probably do OK, at least quarters/semis. Therefore - don't think he'll get the sack/resign (plus, it'd be fairly expensive to sack him, no?).

What scares me more is O'Neil leaving Villa (maybe for Man U if Fergie leaves?). I think Woy would be perfect for the Villa job (not perfect for us, obviously).

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

 :035: :035: :035: :035: not saying a word,I might get banned :035: :035: :035: :035:

[White Noise]

http://cravencottagenewsround.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/henry-winter-on-english-managers/


Henry Winter on English managers


Filed under: General — weltmeisterclaude @ 8:48 pm

Henry Winter bemoans the lack of quality English managers in this interesting piece, and highlights the fact that more Israeli managers have managed in the Champions' League group stage than have English equivalents.  Is this a valid criticism?  Are things really so bad?

In order for there to be more English managers in the Champions' League there need to be a) plenty of English managers (!) and b) these managers need to be in favourable circumstances, given opportunities.

Where is the opportunity in English football?  Until recently the Champions' League was (not by accident) a closed shop, with the big teams getting bigger because of the money they earn in the competition.  It was a devilish thing to pull off, but they managed it, and now their sufficiently rich that only way into the Champions' league is via an implausibly rich outsider.  Otherwise you can forget it.  (unless the Hicks/Gillette/Glazier  ownership phenomenon ruins things, which isn't that implausible either).

So Ferguson is Ferguson, Wenger is Wenger, and Chelsea, being the richest club in the world for some time, have been... well, who knows?  But they could take their pick of managers and very reasonably chose to shop overseas.  Liverpool hired Rafa Benitez because they could, and that worked as well.   Those are your Champions League clubs, folks.   Where does the English manager go from there?

Harry Redknapp, Martin O'Neil, Alec McLeish, Tony Pulis, David Moyes, Sam Allardyce, Sir Roy, Steve Bruce, Mick McCarthy, Owen Coyle, etc.   No, they're not all English, but they're not 'foreign' either and are part of the English system, whatever that might be.   The only thing wrong with this group is opportunity.

Behind them we have managers like David Jones, Sean O'Driscoll, Kevin Blackwell, Chris Coleman, Nigel Pearson, Billy Davies, Nigel Clough, Chris Hughton, Mark Robins, Brian McDermott and Paul Ince (again, I know they're not all English) all at various stages in their development, and all with something going for them.   Given time (the most important aspect of all this – how many of these managers have been at it 30 years?) the right circumstances, patience, application and luck, any one of them could probably do a decent job at a big club.  But they won't get that chance, will they?

It's all well and good Henry Winter taking controversial stances like this (and he's right about Wembley), but the problem isn't the managers, it's the English game as it currently works.  Rafa Benitez and Juande Ramos managed to squeeze big careers out of second notch clubs in Spain, but Spain has a big two, so there is room for two other clubs in the Champions League; English managers don't have that leeway.  There is no Champions League place to be pinched by an over-achieving British (I know) manager; if there was Redknapp or Moyes or Sir Roy would've pinched it by now.

English managers aren't especially well thought of, but I don't know that there's a great crisis either.  Steve McLaren is supposedly off-radar at the moment, but he's only doing what Roy did for most of his career, learning his trade away from the lunacy of the English game.  McLaren will come back from this a much better manager, and it's a shame for him that he was over-promoted into the England job so soon in his career.   But it (in forcing him abroad) may prove to be the making of him.   Paul Ince is in a similar boat, and is (largely through necessity) back on the lower league beat.  Ince doesn't have to work anymore, but he wants to manage, and, if he sticks with it for long enough he might make a good manager.  But he was tried and judged far before he was ready, just like Gareth Southgate was, just like Chris Coleman was for that matter (seriously).

These things take time.  If the managers are given time, and opportunity, they'll do okay.  If they're not then we can expect the Israeli imbalance Winter speaks of to persist.  But it doesn't mean anything anyway.

[Hazey]

What do you think the reaction would be in the Socceroos knocked you out if we manage to scramble our way past the group stages? (unlikely I admit, but you never know).  Man if that happened I would let you keep The Ashes forever!!!!  (I will be cheering on England also with my new found permanent residency btw)....

I think a Semi would make Capello more than safe - there are lots of potential slip ups for England.

1. If Germany mess up and come second in group we face them in ro16 (not that unlikely, they have Serbia/Australia/Ghana).
2. If we mess up and come second we face Germany in ro16 (if USA beat us, could happen).
3.Assuming we win group C, we still have to beat Serbia then France to reach semis.
4. If we only come second, we would have to beat Germany then Argentina to reach semis...

I reckon beating USA might be the most important game of the WC if we want to make the WC a success (and by that I mean not getting dumped out of it in the first ko match).