Help a poor dumb colonists #5

[YankeeJim]

I've been a fan of the game most of my adult life and have always wondered why is it that if English is not your first language you seem to be required to play the game like a twit. I watched PSG v Valencia this morning and every two minutes someone fell down in agony while appealing for a foul. The ref normally looked the other way at which time the "injured" player hopped up and resumed play. Then, with PSG having just conceded but still with the lead, Ibrahimovic got stripped of the ball and then proceeded to stomp on a guys foot, earning him a straight red in  stoppage time. That will likely effect the second leg. He reminded me of Suarez, talented but a putz. Doesn't matter if you like him or not, Rooney just gets on with it. Is it because his momma spoke English while nursing him?

I find Series A impossible to watch with the Spanish & French not far behind. The Bundesliga isn't bad but that could be that English is a derivative of Germanic languages.

Thoughts? 

[filham]

The spectators at most UK grounds are quick to barrack players falling to the ground and complaining for no good reason, they soon learn to behave correctly.

[HatterDon]

It's one of the reasons I was thrilled when C. Ronaldo left for Real Mafia. He was a fantastic player with an unparalled skill set, but his diving and posing and petulance overrode all that.

I don't think it's necessarily the language -- or even the continent. Contrast Aguero with City [works hard, gets on with it, good team player] with Suarez [filthy little creep of a cheat]. Each is possessed of sublime skills, but only one is really worth admiring.

[bill taylors apprentice]

You just can't trust johnny foreigner!

[TheDaddy]

Its called a sense of fair play which we are brought up to understand...

[McBridefan1]

WTF? are you on? Widdle wooney woon bug cries more than a newborn with its head stuck in a vice. Fair play? sure sir alex complaines about the refs to influence play, that's fair... Every country's poo stinks, why would England be any different? Now if you were talking about the US, well we're all about fair play... I mean everyone should be doing steroids that way its fair.  064.gif

[YankeeJim]

Dave, you are a bad man.  :airfix:

[Alan]

Then, with PSG having just conceded but still with the lead, Ibrahimovic got stripped of the ball and then proceeded to stomp on a guys foot, earning him a straight red in  stoppage time. That will likely effect the second leg.

You seem to forget that Ibrahimovic is a complete nutcase! Wasn't he once going through an airport, then went up to a Copper/Guard & asked "Has anyone found my gun yet?", or have I just imagined it?

[Terry Angus]

the diving in other leagues is bad, but that's just because most other countries don't understand/value fairness, sportsmanship and similar concepts in the way we do. you can't really dispute, however, that in almost every other respect, and overall, what you get on the continent is a more cultured, sophisticated and just plain better style of football than you see here. this is borne out every other summer when the english national team make the mistake of bothering to enter an international competition. to those who can't watch italian/spanish/german football i would say... something patronising, like 'you'll understand when you're older'

[YankeeJim]

Terry, thanks for thinking this pensioner is still young. I've always thought that the most skillful footballers are the Italians. Even their defenders have excellent ball skills. But they always seem to fall into what we yanks would call "gamesmanship". Especially if they are behind or sitting on a lead. I guess its cultural. The falling down and whining and delaying goes to excess. It seems it is more important to win at any cost then to win with honor. It works for a day to be sure but perhaps in that is a hint why we English speakers have run the world for the last several centuries.

It is likely that both the Italian and Spanish leagues play better football but the the Premiership is by far the more entertaining. IMHO.

[A Humble Man]

I blame the refs who cannot tell real fouls from fabricated ones. In last nights Madrid/Manchester game in both team players ran into other players and fell down and they were given fouls.  If the ref knew what he was doing players would be booked for simulation and would soon cut it out the diving.

[tommy]

It's one of the reasons I was thrilled when C. Ronaldo left for Real Mafia. He was a fantastic player with an unparalled skill set, but his diving and posing and petulance overrode all that.

I don't think it's necessarily the language -- or even the continent. Contrast Aguero with City [works hard, gets on with it, good team player] with Suarez [filthy little creep of a cheat]. Each is possessed of sublime skills, but only one is really worth admiring.

I personally don't think you can call ronaldo a diver. He had the crap kicked out of him every week in the prem. he didn't go down easily once last night against Man Utd.

Falling over is just part of the game on the continent. It's not pretty to watch but in Italy you get points for it.

[tommy]

I blame the refs who cannot tell real fouls from fabricated ones. In last nights Madrid/Manchester game in both team players ran into other players and fell down and they were given fouls.  If the ref knew what he was doing players would be booked for simulation and would soon cut it out the diving.

Spot on.

And the ref was awful last night.

[Holders]

to those who can't watch italian/spanish/german football i would say... something patronising, like 'you'll understand when you're older'

Patronising means talking down to people.

[King_Crud]

I went to a game in Argentina last year. They have the excellent spray paint for marking where a wall must stand (why we don't have it here I don't know), so there's a line on the ground and the wall kept standing in front of it claiming they were in the right spot, even though there was actual evidence painted on the ground that they weren't. It still took 5mins for the wall to move into place. It's a cultural thing, I'll never get it

[The Equalizer]

It's one of the reasons I was thrilled when C. Ronaldo left for Real Mafia. He was a fantastic player with an unparalled skill set, but his diving and posing and petulance overrode all that.

I don't think it's necessarily the language -- or even the continent. Contrast Aguero with City [works hard, gets on with it, good team player] with Suarez [filthy little creep of a cheat]. Each is possessed of sublime skills, but only one is really worth admiring.

I personally don't think you can call ronaldo a diver. He had the crap kicked out of him every week in the prem. he didn't go down easily once last night against Man Utd.

Falling over is just part of the game on the continent. It's not pretty to watch but in Italy you get points for it.

Exhibit A:

Cristiano Ronaldo Booked For Diving

Sadly I can't find the one when he went down like a sack of poo when we beat them the first time around in 2009 and showed his leg to the ref. The same game that Rooney took out his angst on the corner flag.

[Terry Angus]

It's one of the reasons I was thrilled when C. Ronaldo left for Real Mafia. He was a fantastic player with an unparalled skill set, but his diving and posing and petulance overrode all that.

I don't think it's necessarily the language -- or even the continent. Contrast Aguero with City [works hard, gets on with it, good team player] with Suarez [filthy little creep of a cheat]. Each is possessed of sublime skills, but only one is really worth admiring.

I personally don't think you can call ronaldo a diver. He had the crap kicked out of him every week in the prem. he didn't go down easily once last night against Man Utd.

Falling over is just part of the game on the continent. It's not pretty to watch but in Italy you get points for it.

Exhibit A:

Cristiano Ronaldo Booked For Diving

Sadly I can't find the one when he went down like a sack of sh1t when we beat them the first time around in 2009 and showed his leg to the ref. The same game that Rooney took out his angst on the corner flag.

sorry, but that was a penalty! shocking decision

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

Jim it is generally not tolerated by the fans '' get up you big  Jessie

This  is the Ronaldo   show ....and a small glimpse of my man Bouazza

Cristiano Ronaldo dives compilation

[Forever Fulham]

As much as I hate divers and cheats like Suarez, I have come around to a different point of view.  You can't cherry pick rules violations.  If you are going to hate divers, then you might as well hate all the bear huggers and shirt and shoulder pullers who play defense.  They don't get called.  What about the nasty tackles, the elbows to the face, the feigned follow throughs on the ball that re-arrange knee caps, ankles, and sides of calves?  Why is that 'manly' and thus OK, while diving is 'feminine' and to be despised?  The thing is: The evidence of holding around the box is so flagrant, so obvious, what with the ref standing but a few yards away, watching it, that it makes a mockery of being a purist, of demanding honest play in all aspects, when such visibly dishonest play is being openly rewarded/going unpunished.  You can't have it both ways.  So, like so many others, I now take the position that moral relativism--oh, forget all that!  The bottom line is that no coach wants a player to tap a ref on the shoulder to say he should rescind an erroneously rewarded foul, that he wasn't even touched, that he actually tripped on his own accord, etc.  The manager would go nuts.  I think there are unwritten chapters to the official rule book that every player and manager plays by.  Play to the level of physicality the particular ref will let you get away with.  Dive, if you can get away with it.  Hold, ineffective tactician, obstruct, if you can get away with it.  Waste as much time with tying suddenly untied boots, if you can get away with it.  Express much righteous indignation at "a pattern of bad calls all going in one direction" to the greatest extent possible to 'work' the ref.  And so on.  If you don't follow the unofficial unwritten rules, you only disadvantage your team, your club, your fans--who love you, but need you to win.   

[YankeeJim]

As much as I hate divers and cheats like Suarez, I have come around to a different point of view.  You can't cherry pick rules violations.  If you are going to hate divers, then you might as well hate all the bear huggers and shirt and shoulder pullers who play defense.  They don't get called.  What about the nasty tackles, the elbows to the face, the feigned follow throughs on the ball that re-arrange knee caps, ankles, and sides of calves?  Why is that 'manly' and thus OK, while diving is 'feminine' and to be despised?  The thing is: The evidence of holding around the box is so flagrant, so obvious, what with the ref standing but a few yards away, watching it, that it makes a mockery of being a purist, of demanding honest play in all aspects, when such visibly dishonest play is being openly rewarded/going unpunished.  You can't have it both ways.  So, like so many others, I now take the position that moral relativism--oh, forget all that!  The bottom line is that no coach wants a player to tap a ref on the shoulder to say he should rescind an erroneously rewarded foul, that he wasn't even touched, that he actually tripped on his own accord, etc.  The manager would go nuts.  I think there are unwritten chapters to the official rule book that every player and manager plays by.  Play to the level of physicality the particular ref will let you get away with.  Dive, if you can get away with it.  Hold, ineffective tactician, obstruct, if you can get away with it.  Waste as much time with tying suddenly untied boots, if you can get away with it.  Express much righteous indignation at "a pattern of bad calls all going in one direction" to the greatest extent possible to 'work' the ref.  And so on.  If you don't follow the unofficial unwritten rules, you only disadvantage your team, your club, your fans--who love you, but need you to win.   

Just wondering, are you by chance Italian?