Ageism

[Roberty]

I fail to see why there is a problem with us having the oldest average age squad in the league - if they are playing well.

What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us.

I very much doubt that anyone saw the signing of Karagounis or Diara last year as being worthy of our club but you have to hand it to MJ - he does manage to get the last out of them.

Given that the long-term plan is to having players coming up thought the academy I would believe that signing older players fills the gaps at little cost and we still have the prospect of players we developed coming into the squad.

I would love to have a young team made up of players that have come thought the academy, but in the mean time I see nothing wrong with having older players that cost us nothing in transfer fees.

[Andy_M]

Don't know about anyone else but I'd be more than happy to see Karagounis sign for another season. Yes he may not be able to play 90 minutes but he still has plenty to offer in the time he can manage.

[PaulJ123]

Would much rather Karagounis signs another year than we get someone in on a year long loan.

Kara has proved his class, and more importantly his desire. Keep him for another year until David is ready to step up to the first XI

[Vinnieffc]

What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us.



[/quote]

I didn't realise Michael Jackson had any say in team selection, even beyond the grave 

[HatterDon]

What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us.

I didn't realise Michael Jackson had any say in team selection, even beyond the grave 
[/quote]

I KNOW he'd prefer a younger squad.

[Roberty]

What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us. 
 

I didn't realise Michael Jackson had any say in team selection, even beyond the grave 

I KNOW he'd prefer a younger squad.
[/quote]

HatterDon - I am sure you have notice that the family section of the ground is diagonally opposite the statue - as far away as it could be - coincidence I'm sure.

[Edwatch_Winston_Malone]

Time for the old guard to move on.  The past is theirs but the future belongs to the young guns...

[ron]

As far as the average age of supporters goes, we Old Sods have a huge vested interest in not allowing it to drop that much !   :58:

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Players like Diarra and Karagounis have brought a level of quality and experience that have been very valuable. Watching Karagounis has been a real pleasure this season.

The downside of mature players is that you lose the continuity over 4 or 5 seasons that a young or mid career player would bring so you do want a mix of players.

Will Pirlo be available next year?

[filham]

Time for the old guard to move on.  The past is theirs but the future belongs to the young guns...

What young guns, we don't produce them these days, havn't you noticed.

[A Humble Man]

On average a players stays at one club for under 3 years so if you sign a class player who in the twilight of his playing career can give you two good years, what are you losing.

[ron]

On average a players stays at one club for under 3 years so if you sign a class player who in the twilight of his playing career can give you two good years, what are you losing.

Sadly, 'legs' and 'engine'

[EJL]

What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us.

I didn't realise Michael Jackson had any say in team selection, even beyond the grave 

I KNOW he'd prefer a younger squad.
[/quote]

[GodfatherJol]

I agree to an extent. Having some quality, experienced over 30s is certainly the best way to have the team if we're trying to bring through youngsters, but it's a little short-sighted. Realistically only 2 or 3 players tops will come through from the youth team every year, and even then, the vast majority of positions in our team are filled by a player 30+, so we're working on the assumption that a youth player from every position will come through. I'm all for youth, and I'm all for some experience, but we need a couple of talented players in their mid-20s to complete the team.

[Roberty]

I agree to an extent. Having some quality, experienced over 30s is certainly the best way to have the team if we're trying to bring through youngsters, but it's a little short-sighted. Realistically only 2 or 3 players tops will come through from the youth team every year, and even then, the vast majority of positions in our team are filled by a player 30+, so we're working on the assumption that a youth player from every position will come through. I'm all for youth, and I'm all for some experience, but we need a couple of talented players in their mid-20s to complete the team.

Why does their age matter at all?
The only advantage I can see is that if we find anyone who is young and talented they are going to sell at a profit in the same way as Saha, Smalling and Dembele did, but how many duds did we invest in to find three that made a profit?

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

I fail to see why there is a problem with us having the oldest average age squad in the league - if they are playing well. 
 
What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us. 
 
I very much doubt that anyone saw the signing of Karagounis or Diara last year as being worthy of our club but you have to hand it to MJ - he does manage to get the last out of them. 
 
Given that the long-term plan is to having players coming up thought the academy I would believe that signing older players fills the gaps at little cost and we still have the prospect of players we developed coming into the squad. 
 
I would love to have a young team made up of players that have come thought the academy, but in the mean time I see nothing wrong with having older players that cost us nothing in transfer fees. 
 

For me there is a problem, almost two years ago Jol came with a promise of building a young team 
We have a very healthy Academy.  Almost two seasons have passed and we have a team of journey men, loanees or players  contracts either not signed,  or running out. 
I am not saying that we should have 7 or more nineteen year olds. 
A healthy team should have a mixture  

[Roberty]

I fail to see why there is a problem with us having the oldest average age squad in the league - if they are playing well.  
 
What MJ has proved is that there is no problem for him to find quality older players, who are free agents, to sign on short term contracts. They do not have a long-term future with the club but we do get to enjoy the quality of their play while they are with us.  
 
I very much doubt that anyone saw the signing of Karagounis or Diara last year as being worthy of our club but you have to hand it to MJ - he does manage to get the last out of them.  
 
Given that the long-term plan is to having players coming up thought the academy I would believe that signing older players fills the gaps at little cost and we still have the prospect of players we developed coming into the squad.  
 
I would love to have a young team made up of players that have come thought the academy, but in the mean time I see nothing wrong with having older players that cost us nothing in transfer fees.  
 

For me there is a problem, almost two years ago Jol came with a promise of building a young team  
We have a very healthy Academy.  Almost two seasons have passed and we have a team of journey men, loanees or players  contracts either not signed,  or running out.  
I am not saying that we should have 7 or more nineteen year olds.  
A healthy team should have a mixture  

I fail to see the point you are trying to make.
You say that "we have a very healthy Academy" - which surely fulfils the promise to build a young team - building starts at the bottom and the clock only moves forward one day at a time. With the Academy it will take longer than two season to see if we have players who are going to break-through.
With regard to our current team your comment applies to every team - since one club loyalty went out of the window with the £20 maximun wage 52 years ago they could all be described as journey men.

My original posting was to ask why were are worried about age at all?
Surely the most important thing is that we have a team on the pitch that keeps us in the premier league with some hope of a good season without putting the clubs financial wellbeing in jeopardy.
If you take away the loanees and short-term contracted older players from our current team - I would suspect that we may have been in a mini-league with the likes of QPR, Reading and Wigan and I for one would not want that.

I would also bet that our "player of the year" will be on loan from another club - what a good piece of business that was!

[MJG]

because a good team has a balance in age and experience.
For some games in the last couple of years we have had no player below 27 in the team.
Currently we have no outfield player aged 22-25 in the squad ( not including loans).
Performances at times have lacked pace and energy, something that could be attributed to 9 outfielders being 29+.
Also we have seen a lot of money invested in youth and we are impatient in wanting to see that fulfilled.
I do feel a bit let down by Jol and his reluctantance to persist with Kaca on the left. And with Frei fit he should be in the squad as well.
The CM issue in the middle of the year was a chance to at least stick a 19/20 year old in the bench. But no he puts a player like Ruiz in cm when we all knew that was a mistake.
So yes we should worry about the age thing as we also become too predictable with players of that age.
Take Duff, we all know what he does and doesn't do. We know when he's going to cut inside. Now im not saying Duff should not play, just using him as an example.

[Roberty]

Hum - who says a good team "has a balance in age and experience" - is this someones "golden rule"?
What is bad about sometimes having no players under 27 in the team?
Why specifically do we need outfield players aged between 22 to 25 in our squad, what difference would that make?
I seem to remember Spuds performance last week being described as lacking pace and energy, was that because all their outfield players over 29?
Yes we have invest a lot into the academy but unfortunately it does not have a "fast forward" button.

The Kaca situation is answered by your last sentence and was highlighted by Jol last week - at the moment Duff is more productive and that is why he was keeping Kaca out of the team. He went on to say that it was better for Kaca, Briggs, Kasami and Frei to be sent on loan to play rather than to be the bench-sitting 19/20 year old you crave. In fact I would point out that Kasami actually did spent a lot of time doing that until his loan, I wonder if it did him any good?

With regard to Byran - I remember that his absence through injury was being touted on here as the reason for our period of poor form - the reason given was that we missed the quality of his passing - so I wonder who else thought having him in midfield was a mistake?

As far as prediction is concerned it has become far easier now that everything is recorded, but being able to predict what a player is going to do has not made it any easier to beat Man Utd? It also didn't make it possible for Spuds to beat us last week either!

[MJG]

Hum - who says a good team "has a balance in age and experience" - is this someones "golden rule"?
What is bad about sometimes having no players under 27 in the team?
Why specifically do we need outfield players aged between 22 to 25 in our squad, what difference would that make?
I seem to remember Spuds performance last week being described as lacking pace and energy, was that because all their outfield players over 29?
Yes we have invest a lot into the academy but unfortunately it does not have a "fast forward" button.

The Kaca situation is answered by your last sentence and was highlighted by Jol last week - at the moment Duff is more productive and that is why he was keeping Kaca out of the team. He went on to say that it was better for Kaca, Briggs, Kasami and Frei to be sent on loan to play rather than to be the bench-sitting 19/20 year old you crave. In fact I would point out that Kasami actually did spent a lot of time doing that until his loan, I wonder if it did him any good?

With regard to Byran - I remember that his absence through injury was being touted on here as the reason for our period of poor form - the reason given was that we missed the quality of his passing - so I wonder who else thought having him in midfield was a mistake?

As far as prediction is concerned it has become far easier now that everything is recorded, but being able to predict what a player is going to do has not made it any easier to beat Man Utd? It also didn't make it possible for Spuds to beat us last week either!

Regarding Ruiz I clearly stated when he played in CM, but of course you can ignore that part if you wish.
Duff for me is not as good on the left as he is on the right.
I said a team needs balance in age and experience and I think your find that's true of all successful teams.
You ask what is bad about sometimes having a team over 27. Well I have answerd that and that's pretty much what your first question was.
Loans are fine and in not against them. With the 19/20 year old point I was making, it had all to do with CM issue I hightlighted.
Frei went in loan and played 80 mins at Cardiff, that's well worth it. Also he's good enough for the 18 man squad, not to go and help other teams.
Kasami!!! I think you or me would get a game for fulham before him at the moment.

Spurs last week was a good result and a good rare breakaway goal. Something we don't do enough. But as a whole we still lacked speed in our play. Apart from Dejagah it was all still pretty walking pace.