Where did everyone go?

[HatterDon]

I find it bizarre that he can be blamed (probably fairly) for a bad run of performances and results earlier in the season yet be given no credit for correcting the weaknesses and producing a successful team for the last three months.

Even when we win the performance is somehow unacceptable yet when we were losing the result was all that mattered.

Well, Tony, I give him a lot of credit for changing his tactics and for the good run of results that we've had. I gave him credit for the same adjustment about the same time last season. I also called him out on his failure to make those adjustments week after week last season and this season.

On balance, I believe we have a good enough squad to have been comfortably ensconced in 7th or 8th place had we not wasted nearly half a season playing key people out of position.

I see where you're coming from, though. I still scratch my head over posters here giving credit to Jol for bringing in players when they're performing well after telling us that he had no control over who joined the club when those players were playing poorly.

For the record: I want Jol to stay for at least one more season -- perhaps two. I'm tired of the managerial merry-go-round we've been on since Cookie left. I'd like us to get some stability and build a cohesive organization. I also don't believe that Jol is that great a coach in the scheme of things. My fellow Texan believes that he's the right man for a club filled with exceptionally talented players, but doesn't do well with a club that has the economic restrictions that we do. There's merit in that opinion. I'm never going to be comfortable with a manager that is so inconsistent in his approach to the game, but I don't think that should matter all that much. I don't think there should be a Jol litmus test for team loyalty.

[Jack Fulham]

I find it bizarre that he can be blamed (probably fairly) for a bad run of performances and results earlier in the season yet be given no credit for correcting the weaknesses and producing a successful team for the last three months.

Even when we win the performance is somehow unacceptable yet when we were losing the result was all that mattered.

Well, Tony, I give him a lot of credit for changing his tactics and for the good run of results that we've had. I gave him credit for the same adjustment about the same time last season. I also called him out on his failure to make those adjustments week after week last season and this season.

On balance, I believe we have a good enough squad to have been comfortably ensconced in 7th or 8th place had we not wasted nearly half a season playing key people out of position.

I see where you're coming from, though. I still scratch my head over posters here giving credit to Jol for bringing in players when they're performing well after telling us that he had no control over who joined the club when those players were playing poorly.

For the record: I want Jol to stay for at least one more season -- perhaps two. I'm tired of the managerial merry-go-round we've been on since Cookie left. I'd like us to get some stability and build a cohesive organization. I also don't believe that Jol is that great a coach in the scheme of things. My fellow Texan believes that he's the right man for a club filled with exceptionally talented players, but doesn't do well with a club that has the economic restrictions that we do. There's merit in that opinion. I'm never going to be comfortable with a manager that is so inconsistent in his approach to the game, but I don't think that should matter all that much. I don't think there should be a Jol litmus test for team loyalty.

He's done pretty well with the economic restrictions so far.

[RaySmith]

I think the main reason for our recent good run, is that the team has just begun to gell - with all the new signings starting to fit in. Well some of them, while some are on the bench - who haven't yet fitted in - and before Jol was chopping and changing, trying to find the players who worked together as a team. Plus we had a lot of injuries.

Results have led to greater confidence - which seemed to have  become very fragile, and players such as Hangeland and Schwarz are again showing their true metal.

I hope Jol stays as long as possible, to build upon what he is doing - the style of play and the  policy of bringing young players through -which  is probably  club policy as well - to try and   get home grown youngsters through - but Jol will probably only stay another year , maybe two, and then  the club will have to start again with a new manager.

However, we have maintained our consistent  mid table finish for a few years now with  different managers - though we  had a relegation scare this season , and we usually have a mid table slump when everyone gets worried, and there are calls to sack the manager.

[LondonFulhamWhite]

I find it bizarre that he can be blamed (probably fairly) for a bad run of performances and results earlier in the season yet be given no credit for correcting the weaknesses and producing a successful team for the last three months.

Even when we win the performance is somehow unacceptable yet when we were losing the result was all that mattered.

Well, Tony, I give him a lot of credit for changing his tactics and for the good run of results that we've had. I gave him credit for the same adjustment about the same time last season. I also called him out on his failure to make those adjustments week after week last season and this season.

On balance, I believe we have a good enough squad to have been comfortably ensconced in 7th or 8th place had we not wasted nearly half a season playing key people out of position.

I see where you're coming from, though. I still scratch my head over posters here giving credit to Jol for bringing in players when they're performing well after telling us that he had no control over who joined the club when those players were playing poorly.

For the record: I want Jol to stay for at least one more season -- perhaps two. I'm tired of the managerial merry-go-round we've been on since Cookie left. I'd like us to get some stability and build a cohesive organization. I also don't believe that Jol is that great a coach in the scheme of things. My fellow Texan believes that he's the right man for a club filled with exceptionally talented players, but doesn't do well with a club that has the economic restrictions that we do. There's merit in that opinion. I'm never going to be comfortable with a manager that is so inconsistent in his approach to the game, but I don't think that should matter all that much. I don't think there should be a Jol litmus test for team loyalty.

He's done pretty well with the economic restrictions so far.

[NogoodBoyo]

I believed that Jol did play Berbatov and Ruiz far too deep in our dark as dubbin days - but, what's that I heard the commentary team say in that golden first half on Sunday?  
I paratroopaphrase: "Fulham are completely outplaying QPR because Berbatov and Ruiz ARE DROPPING DEEP and the central defenders don't know whether to go with them or stay where they are.  As a result, the defenders are stranded time and time again in no-man's land giving acres of space for the Fulham team to run or pass into."
OUCH.
That little opinion/fact gave me a few Grasshopper zen moments on the quality of opinion on this board.
-The vast majority of us know absolutely jack balders about football
-We TV watchers really can't see the effect that Bryanov dropping deep has on the opposition defence as we're really only able to ball watch
-People in the stands can't see the effect Bryanov dropping deep has on the opposition defence as they're either so lashed that they can't see past their own bubbly nostril hair, or the granny in front keeps leaping to her feet to pass wind like a Triangle train, or the steward is grabbing them in a violent headlock as they're being frog-marched out for hurling vile, abusive antideJolian language at the electronic substitutes' board.
-The only people in the whole stand who can see what's going on are Marten Jol, Mark Schwartzer and Didi Hamilton.
Nogood "where do sports fans get all these hairy-arsed facts from, isit" Boyo

[Peabody]

What is fact, is that every team has a bad run during a season. Some have longer ones than others and those who have shorter bad spells win things

[Arthur]

I find it bizarre that he can be blamed (probably fairly) for a bad run of performances and results earlier in the season yet be given no credit for correcting the weaknesses and producing a successful team for the last three months.

Even when we win the performance is somehow unacceptable yet when we were losing the result was all that mattered.

Indeed, those who clearly don't like the manager are nearly always more likely to comment candidly upon things that they perceive to be negative and acknowledge the positives with scant praise. And vice-versa, of course.

The battle, as such, is for the hearts and minds of those for whom the result is the performance: win and we must have played well; lose and we must have been poor. As an example, compare the home performances against Southampton and Stoke. In my view, there was little to choose between the two other than that Schwarzer saved Walters' penalty, but not Lambert's. On this forum, however, there was far more praise for the way we played against Stoke. Likewise, our performance in defeat to Swansea drew more criticism than praise whereas a similar effort against West Ham was overwhelmingly applauded.

For the time being, at least, it appears Jol is, at most, three poor results away from certain people calling for him to be sacked. Clearly, this is not my sentiment.

[Lighthouse]

Where are all the Jol non lovers now we have a run of good results?

We are here and lay out reasons why Jol is not loved by all.

You lot are always picking on Jol.




I think we are all mad.

[FC Silver Fox]

Quote: " I think we are all mad. "

I'll second that, Beamer. . . .   Right, who ordered the lamb cutlets ?     fp.gif

[Berserker]

Well my excuse is i'm female and mad

[HatterDon]

Well my excuse is i'm female and mad

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

fp.gif :Get Coat gif:

[Forever Fulham]

He's not going anywhere anytime soon, so what's the point of it all?  I agree  the players are getting more accustomed to playing with one another, gelling, becoming a unit whose members are starting to trust each other more.  Anticipation play is a big part of this game.  Any way, the manager is growing on me.  He cobbled together a team of short timers, though.  So what we are now seeing is likely illusory, just a tease, if, as HD surmises, we lose a lot of our better players this summer.

[TonyGilroy]

if, as HD surmises, we lose a lot of our better players this summer.

But why should we now that Hangeland has signed. We have an option on Reither. Age is a factor with Schwarzer, Karagounis and maybe Riise but they'll surely sign on for next season if Jol wants them to stay. Everyone else is contracted.

[Rupert]

Well my excuse is i'm female and mad

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

fp.gif :Get Coat gif:

So that is now Epsom and Hatter on Berserker's hit list.

Incidently, has anyone heard from Epsom since his "battleaxe" quip, or has she caught up with him already?

[epsomraver]

I'm still here , I may meet up with her in France in May on the battlefield, It isn't at present but they may change! :handbags:

[A Humble Man]

The problem is this message board would be dull if everyone loved the manager, the players, all the other Fulham Employees, all the other Clubs players and supporters, the BBC and Sky, the FA, the Premier League, Foreign players, officials etc.

We must have things to moan about as we all know a win is a triumph and a defeat a disaster.  You of course can have good and bad draws, but you can still complain about them.

[Burt]

A few months in to Jol's tenure here I remember saying ad nauseum that he seemed to be getting all the blame for a defeat and no credit for a victory.

There is still an element of that.

But people are entitled to their opinions. I never took to Hughes but he had plenty of fans amongst us. C'est la vie.

[Lighthouse]

I am sorry but you can't start a thread by saying 'where did everyone go' and then start complaining when people answer. Jol has had plenty of praise by everyone. But some of us haven't forgotten that we haven't played more than a few good 90 minutes ALL season. Is it all Jols fault? No but nobody blames him for everything. Jols football divides many fans. For many of us it has done from day one.

But let's enjoy a blimmin win without people saying it proves Jol is wonderful or an idiot AND the fans that hold those few are wrong.

To say he gets no credit for a win is just wrong. In the same way he isn't blamed for every defeat. But he shouldn't be praised alone for a narrow win when we were three up against the bottom side either.

[Arthur]

But some of us haven't forgotten that we haven't played more than a few good 90 minutes ALL season.

Have we played more than a few good 90 minutes under any manager since we joined the elite? It depends, of course, on one's idea of what constitutes 'playing well', but even under Hodgson - our most successful PL manager - we rarely played entertaining football for an entire match; if ever we took a two-goal lead, he would have us defend our advantage; to carry on attacking (and entertaining) was deemed unnecessary.

Clearly, one of the reasons that I am less critical of Jol than you is that I have more faith in his ability to fashion a team that entertains on a regular basis. Last season, we scored six against QPR and five against Wolves and Newcastle. How refreshing it was to see us carry on attacking and looking to score, even though there was no actual need. I hadn't been treated to that sort of entertainment in a PL game in a long time.

[Lighthouse]

But some of us haven't forgotten that we haven't played more than a few good 90 minutes ALL season.

Have we played more than a few good 90 minutes under any manager since we joined the elite? It depends, of course, on one's idea of what constitutes 'playing well', but even under Hodgson - our most successful PL manager - we rarely played entertaining football for an entire match; if ever we took a two-goal lead, he would have us defend our advantage; to carry on attacking (and entertaining) was deemed unnecessary.

Clearly, one of the reasons that I am less critical of Jol than you is that I have more faith in his ability to fashion a team that entertains on a regular basis. Last season, we scored six against QPR and five against Wolves and Newcastle. How refreshing it was to see us carry on attacking and looking to score, even though there was no actual need. I hadn't been treated to that sort of entertainment in a PL game in a long time.

There we have it. 'How refreshing it was to see us carry on attacking'. Yet in most games we have slow build up and have very few shots on goal. Our play this season has been very hit or miss during games. Under Roy we were consistant for most of the games. Sometimes not. Under Jol we have looked very odd at times. One half good one half bad has been the rule not the exception.  Undr the much hated Mark Hughes we did go forward. Jol has us playing a style that when it works it look fine. But really it hasn't worked on any consistant level. Ruiz and Berbatov have only just started to have results happen for them when they play together. But we still look like the away team for many of our game home and away. I just find us dull under Jol.

Yes we were pretty dull under Roy. But had consistancy. Under Jol we may well have started really well. Then gone off and now sort of have found results again. The season has been like any given game. Which Fulham will turn up for which half?