Where did everyone go?

[YankeeJim]

Where are all the Jol non lovers now we have a run of good results?

We are here and lay out reasons why Jol is not loved by all.

You lot are always picking on Jol.




I think we are all mad.

One could also ask, "where are all the Senderos non lovers now that we've had a good run of results?"
Could t be that both groups were wrong? Could it be that both groups are right but the teams we've played recently have more problems than we do? I, for one, promise to blame both Senderos and Jol after our next loss. Until then, I'll phrase them.    :airfix:

[Enter the Frei]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

[LondonFulhamWhite]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

Find us dull... oh my.

[Lighthouse]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

I think the last ten games have turned our season around. I do think we took a backward step this season because of the selling of players. So I agree Jol has managed a problem that could well have turned into a disaster.

Yeah this not having shots on goal in some matches does annoy me. The way we can play so well one minute then just look awful the next frustrates me. But clearly when things go right we look good and so does the work Jol does.

[Lighthouse]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

Find us dull... oh my.

Yeah having no shots on goal is dull. But if you like the way we play away from home against QPR etc then I am very pleased for you. But it is dull to me.

[Enter the Frei]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

I think the last ten games have turned our season around. I do think we took a backward step this season because of the selling of players. So I agree Jol has managed a problem that could well have turned into a disaster.

Yeah this not having shots on goal in some matches does annoy me. The way we can play so well one minute then just look awful the next frustrates me. But clearly when things go right we look good and so does the work Jol does.

We have bad games, QPR away was one of them as you mentioned but you can look at our form in two ways really either you take our bad form in November/December as the standard or our early/late season form as being the standard.

I think we have two problems right now though which relate to our inconsistency which you seem frustrated by. We have an over reliance on key players who themselves are inconsistent which in turn makes our performances inconsistent. I'd also add that no matter what we say and how much I love the likes of Baird/ Karagounis our central midfield is still horribly average. We've also been reliant on average players playing well there IMO. In our early season Baird was playing out of his skin and more recently Sidwell and Kara have been playing much better than most would of expected.

Also are you still Jol out, right now?

[Arthur]

But some of us haven't forgotten that we haven't played more than a few good 90 minutes ALL season.

Have we played more than a few good 90 minutes under any manager since we joined the elite? It depends, of course, on one's idea of what constitutes 'playing well', but even under Hodgson - our most successful PL manager - we rarely played entertaining football for an entire match; if ever we took a two-goal lead, he would have us defend our advantage; to carry on attacking (and entertaining) was deemed unnecessary.

Clearly, one of the reasons that I am less critical of Jol than you is that I have more faith in his ability to fashion a team that entertains on a regular basis. Last season, we scored six against QPR and five against Wolves and Newcastle. How refreshing it was to see us carry on attacking and looking to score, even though there was no actual need. I hadn't been treated to that sort of entertainment in a PL game in a long time.

There we have it. 'How refreshing it was to see us carry on attacking'. Yet in most games we have slow build up and have very few shots on goal. Our play this season has been very hit or miss during games. Under Roy we were consistant for most of the games. Sometimes not. Under Jol we have looked very odd at times. One half good one half bad has been the rule not the exception.  Undr the much hated Mark Hughes we did go forward. Jol has us playing a style that when it works it look fine. But really it hasn't worked on any consistant level. Ruiz and Berbatov have only just started to have results happen for them when they play together. But we still look like the away team for many of our game home and away. I just find us dull under Jol.

Yes we were pretty dull under Roy. But had consistancy. Under Jol we may well have started really well. Then gone off and now sort of have found results again. The season has been like any given game. Which Fulham will turn up for which half?

I agree that a number of performances this season have been very reminiscent of our style of play under Hodgson: passing the ball without any attacking purpose; too few players getting into the penalty area; counter-attacking opportunities spurned and wasted.

The difference, however, is 'hope'. Jol has said that his aim is to have us play a more fluent footballing style, whereas Roy's team was the 'finished article'; there was nothing he wanted to change. 5-0 and 6-0 victories were almost an impossibility with Roy at the helm because he felt no obligation to provide entertainment - only the result.

That you were happier knowing that Roy would grind out low-scoring victories and 0-0 draws on a consistent basis is, of course, your entitlement. Personally, even though I would have liked to have seen more progress, I am happy to give Jol more time to try to implement his ideals.

[MJG]

On the 'Shots per game' point.
We average 12.6 shotsper game, which puts us 15th in the league.
The worst team is Reading with 9.5 and the best is Liverpool with 19.1

At home we average 14.9 (12th in the table) and away we average 10.2 (15th)

We try to keep the ball and build from the back I know, and I dont have an issue with that. Where we fall down attacking wise is the quick breakaways. We dont do enough of those, we dont gamble on getting ion the box enough.
We might have a 3 on 3 break and Ruiz or someone will just stop, turnaround with the ball and then before you know it the other team are all back.
Dejagah is helping us change that slightly and thats why I would like Frei or Kaca in the team as well.
We still lack real pace and directness when going forward in some situations and that for me is where we need to improve.

This whole thread about where did everyone go, would have come up if we were in relegation trouble or top of the lge.
There were times this season when i lost faith with Jol, not to the point where I wanted him sacked there and then, but times when his decisons baffled me. But through it all I'm still sold on the (maybe a myth) of attacking football with youth.
I'm still not convinced he will ever show faith in youth as I want, even with the youngsters coming through. I suspect next season we will still have the 2 or 3rd oldest team in thelge. And yes to answer the question already, I do think age is an issue to the way we play.

[BestOfBrede]

Where are all the Jol non lovers now we have a run of good results?

We are here and lay out reasons why Jol is not loved by all.

You lot are always picking on Jol.




I think we are all mad.

One could also ask, "where are all the Senderos non lovers now that we've had a good run of results?"
Could t be that both groups were wrong? Could it be that both groups are right but the teams we've played recently have more problems than we do? I, for one, promise to blame both Senderos and Jol after our next loss. Until then, I'll phrase them.    :airfix:

As in 'Songs of Phrase'?   :005:

[epsomraver]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

I wonder if you go to games and spend your your money sitting watching "the slow build up"? Watching paint dry is more interesting!

[Berserker]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

I wonder if you go to games and spend your your money sitting watching "the slow build up"? Watching paint dry is more interesting!

Well I can safely say that every time I go out to the loo or get a coffee/hot chocolate one team or the other will score. Before anybody starts I sit at the end of the row next to stair exit so do not disturb any bodies anything

[Enter the Frei]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

I wonder if you go to games and spend your your money sitting watching "the slow build up"? Watching paint dry is more interesting!

I do go to games and I don't mind us being more patient in possession as we are. Last season our fans gave Swansea a standing ovation at Craven cottage for playing more patient football with " slow build up" so why do you feel so differently this year?

[Enter the Frei]

On the 'Shots per game' point.
We average 12.6 shotsper game, which puts us 15th in the league.
The worst team is Reading with 9.5 and the best is Liverpool with 19.1

At home we average 14.9 (12th in the table) and away we average 10.2 (15th)

We try to keep the ball and build from the back I know, and I dont have an issue with that. Where we fall down attacking wise is the quick breakaways. We dont do enough of those, we dont gamble on getting ion the box enough.
We might have a 3 on 3 break and Ruiz or someone will just stop, turnaround with the ball and then before you know it the other team are all back.
Dejagah is helping us change that slightly and thats why I would like Frei or Kaca in the team as well.
We still lack real pace and directness when going forward in some situations and that for me is where we need to improve.

This whole thread about where did everyone go, would have come up if we were in relegation trouble or top of the lge.
There were times this season when i lost faith with Jol, not to the point where I wanted him sacked there and then, but times when his decisons baffled me. But through it all I'm still sold on the (maybe a myth) of attacking football with youth.
I'm still not convinced he will ever show faith in youth as I want, even with the youngsters coming through. I suspect next season we will still have the 2 or 3rd oldest team in thelge. And yes to answer the question already, I do think age is an issue to the way we play.

I take your point on the quick breakaways which is what we sacrifice a little by playing Ruiz and Berbatov upfront. Also on Frei and Kaca neither have exactly set the world alight with their performances this year which is probably why they've both spent so long out on loan at different points in the season. Kaca has been hot and cold and is now getting playing time, but not standing out at Burnley. Frei has been injured most of the season as well and even when he was fit he wasn't getting in the Cardiff side when they had injuries. To be honest I don't think Frei especially could be trusted when we were threatened with relegation as we were mid season, but now I would like you love to see them given a real run in the side.

I agree with the majority of your second paragraph as well, but the age thing isn't going to change any time soon to be honest. Schwarzer, Berbatov, Hangeland and Ruiz will all IMO be starting for the side next season and so will in all likelihood Riether and Dejagah so we will have a high average next year no matter how youthful our summer signings are to be honest.

[Riverside]

Interesting thread
Some responses

1) There is a fine line between success and failure . 6 points less and we would all be sweating and the Jol out calls would be very loud

2) We have been better recently because we have been tighter . This has come from 2 changes
a) Senderos for Hughes . Not sure how much better Senderos but the rest of the defence has looked so much better as a unit and individually
b) Duff for Kaca. Duff protects his full backs . Kaca ( and Frei do not )

3) Age does not seem to matter a jot if we are just playing the league . One game a week or in March one every 2 weeks we have been comfortable with. Now with Europe or a cup run I think age would matter.

4) I don't think we are boring . Monday vs QPR was much toooooo exciting for my taste . And I would take as many 1-0 vs Spurs as I could .

[Rupert]

Well I can safely say that every time I go out to the loo or get a coffee/hot chocolate one team or the other will score. Before anybody starts I sit at the end of the row next to stair exit so do not disturb any bodies anything

Blimey, you must have been up and down like a yo-yo on Monday, then!
In future, can you stay firmly rooted in your seat until we have a promising attack starting to build, then make a mad dash for the loo and get back before the opposition can kick off after our goal? Thanks in advance.

[Lighthouse]

I just find us dull under Jol.

This is probably why you are not a fan of Jol and others ( like me ) are. I like the slow, patient build up play whilst it may not be to your taste. I would say however that no matter what you think of Jol you've got to say this season he's got results from the players he's had at his disposal. A top ten finish after losing as many players as we did last summer is a good achievement IMO.

I think the last ten games have turned our season around. I do think we took a backward step this season because of the selling of players. So I agree Jol has managed a problem that could well have turned into a disaster.

Yeah this not having shots on goal in some matches does annoy me. The way we can play so well one minute then just look awful the next frustrates me. But clearly when things go right we look good and so does the work Jol does.

We have bad games, QPR away was one of them as you mentioned but you can look at our form in two ways really either you take our bad form in November/December as the standard or our early/late season form as being the standard.

I think we have two problems right now though which relate to our inconsistency which you seem frustrated by. We have an over reliance on key players who themselves are inconsistent which in turn makes our performances inconsistent. I'd also add that no matter what we say and how much I love the likes of Baird/ Karagounis our central midfield is still horribly average. We've also been reliant on average players playing well there IMO. In our early season Baird was playing out of his skin and more recently Sidwell and Kara have been playing much better than most would of expected.

Also are you still Jol out, right now?

When we are poor and not playing football I like to watch and losing then I tend to think we can do better than Jol. In the last ten odd matches when we have had better results if not some odd performances I hope he has turned the corner. Then we go two up at Sunderland and then just don't turn up and go three up against QPR and then have a picnic in our own half. I then think, we can do better than this.

[BarryP]

Interesting thread
Some responses

1) There is a fine line between success and failure . 6 points less and we would all be sweating and the Jol out calls would be very loud

2) We have been better recently because we have been tighter . This has come from 2 changes
a) Senderos for Hughes . Not sure how much better Senderos but the rest of the defence has looked so much better as a unit and individually
b) Duff for Kaca. Duff protects his full backs . Kaca ( and Frei do not )

3) Age does not seem to matter a jot if we are just playing the league . One game a week or in March one every 2 weeks we have been comfortable with. Now with Europe or a cup run I think age would matter.

4) I don't think we are boring . Monday vs QPR was much toooooo exciting for my taste . And I would take as many 1-0 vs Spurs as I could .

I would like to nominate this for top post on this thread.