Berba bashing vs Dempsey love in

[Bassey the warrior]

I haven't posted on here for a while but I browse the board from time to time and occasionally CC too. Obviously his name is mentioned less often now, but it does annoy me that whenever Dempsey is referred to (as a player that is, not the person) he's spoken of as if he were world class. Berba however is usually roundly criticised on both boards by most posters.
Let's re-jog our memories. Dempsey scored plenty of goals granted, many of them vital, but he was also very wasteful with his wild long range shots, very greedy and very lazy and reluctant to track back.
Berba also scored lots of  goals, often vital goals, tracked back more often, created more chances and kept the ball better and was simply a joy to watch.
Granted Dempsey was far more willing to get in the six yard box, something Berba did far too rarely, but this is something I expect will change if we get more creativity.
My intention here is not so much to denigrate Dempsey's Fulham career, but to voice my protest against the Berba bashing. We're  fortunate to have a genuinely world class player at our club, let's not speed up his departure.

[cmg]

I can't speak for any other board but, although there are a number of lively posters on this board who (totally erroneously, in my view) believe we would be better off without the best footballer we have had for thirty years (they are, of course, fully entitled to express this view), I do not get the impression that he is 'roundly criticized by most posters.'

[Bassey the warrior]

Well then I wish these pro-Berba folks would speak up for him. I always see more people criticising him than praising him. I won't name names or resort to pettiness.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I agree that many posts on here and elsewhere create a very poor impression of our footballing knowledge and appreciation. And to the Dempsey and Berbatov posts I would add those which are very negative about Jol.

Together, with their anger, their sweeping statements and points that defy the facts and logic they do not reflect what most of us see on the pitch or what most of us hear and discuss with fellow supporters at matches (or maybe I'm just lucky in that).

What I would suggest though is that most of this noise comes from small groups of posters who take every opportunity to give the same line in every thread going so they make up the majority of posts on the matter.

What comforts me in some small ways are the suggestions these posters make to solve our problems such as the journeymen who didn't score 15 goals this season to replace Berbatov or similar also-rans to replace Jol. If these are their solution then I don't have much faith in their analysis of the problem.

[EJL]

I've been critical of Berbatov on numerous occasions, but I don't overlook the important stuff, unlike a lot of the 'Berba bashers' (that has a fantastic ring to it, doesn't it?):

- He scored 15 crucial goals last season; without which, we would have finished a lot lower in the table - maybe even too low.

- He is undeniably one of the best players this club has ever seen. Even during the most anonymous of performances, he'll produce something of sheer quality.

There are issues, though.

[Burt]

Both Dempsey and Berba are very talented, but each come with their "achilles heel"...

But the positives of both players far outweigh the negatives. Particularly their knack for scoring crucial goals, without which we may not have got to the Europa final, or still be in the premier league.

[westcliff white]

for me his pluses out weigh the minuses, people have opinions but the most important thing is that come game day we support every player, the manager meaning we support the team.

I am not a roddellga fan, far from it, and i do have a dig on the board, but if he is in the squad i will support him as much as i support, Djegah, berba, Brede et al, and that is the most important thing.

[JBH]

Both Dempsey and Berba are very talented, but each come with their "achilles heel"...

But the positives of both players far outweigh the negatives. Particularly their knack for scoring crucial goals, without which we may not have got to the Europa final, or still be in the premier league.

Very true but we may also have brought other players rather than Berba and Dempsey and finished in ther top 4  065.gif

[HatterDon]

obviously, the validity of ones opinion about players, the coach, and the club continues to be TOTALLY dependent upon whether they jibe with yours. Trashing a player you don't like is fair commentary. Trashing a player you like is indicative of ignorance of football and -- possibly -- disloyalty to Fulham.

It also seems that if you criticize one player, you must love another with unalloyed passion.

And so on and so on and scooby-dooby-dooby.

Sometimes this board reminds me of a clubhouse filled with 12 year old girls completely besotted by boy bands.

Back to my self-imposed exile. See you in July. Harumph

[The Doctor]

I don't really think that most of the Berba-bashers want shot of him.  I just get a general impression that there's a suspicion we're not really getting the best out of him.

I was chatting to a mate the other night and mooted the suggestion that maybe having a tap-in merchant up front would bring out the best in Berbatov...he'd then not have the burden of expectation for goalscoring (although no doubt he'd score a few anyway) but could spend most of his playing time doing what he does best; bamboozling opponents and teeing up said tap-in merchant.

[JBH]

obviously, the validity of ones opinion about players, the coach, and the club continues to be TOTALLY dependent upon whether they jibe with yours. Trashing a player you don't like is fair commentary. Trashing a player you like is indicative of ignorance of football and -- possibly -- disloyalty to Fulham.

It also seems that if you criticize one player, you must love another with unalloyed passion.

And so on and so on and scooby-dooby-dooby.

Sometimes this board reminds me of a clubhouse filled with 12 year old girls completely besotted by boy bands.

Back to my self-imposed exile. See you in July. Harumph

You just couldn't stay away 065.gif

[Enter the Frei]

Well said with regards to Berbatov more often than not I get the impression from this board that we don't know quite how lucky we are to have him. Most of the doubters are normally the sort of posters I qould skip over on this board though.

[ToodlesMcToot]

I haven't posted on here for a while but I browse the board from time to time and occasionally CC too. Obviously his name is mentioned less often now, but it does annoy me that whenever Dempsey is referred to (as a player that is, not the person) he's spoken of as if he were world class. Berba however is usually roundly criticised on both boards by most posters.
Let's re-jog our memories. Dempsey scored plenty of goals granted, many of them vital, but he was also very wasteful with his wild long range shots, very greedy and very lazy and reluctant to track back.
Berba also scored lots of  goals, often vital goals, tracked back more often, created more chances and kept the ball better and was simply a joy to watch.
Granted Dempsey was far more willing to get in the six yard box, something Berba did far too rarely, but this is something I expect will change if we get more creativity.
My intention here is not so much to denigrate Dempsey's Fulham career, but to voice my protest against the Berba bashing. We're  fortunate to have a genuinely world class player at our club, let's not speed up his departure.

Obviously.

Why is it necessary to make this comparison? Why not voice your concern about just the "Berba bashing" if that's your ONLY concern?  :54:

[RaySmith]

Well, as Joni Mitchell sang, 'you never know what you've got til it's gone'.

I have wondered is it just Fulham fans, or is it modern supporters generally, who don't apreciate a good thing when they see it?

Berba scored 15 goals last season - crucial goals, and many goals that only a top class striker could have scored, let alone Rodallegra or Petric; and he also worked hard, filling in in midfield when needed, and tackling back.

Pundits generally agreed his signing had been a great success, but come on the Fulham forums and you might get a different impression....!!!

I don't know what would happen if we signed Moore and Mullery today, or Best and Marsh, like we did in the 70s - would they be slagged off as too old and slow?

[ToodlesMcToot]

Personally, my only complaints about Berba over the course of the season were the arm flailing and, for lack of a better way to put it, an unwillingness to be more direct around goal (not shooting enough).

On the latter, I realized as time went on that he's more a facilitator by nature than he is a goal scorer - eventhough he's still a very good goal scorer. Our lack of creativity in midfield and the loss of Dejagah pretty much ruined my ability to truly enjoy what we have in him. He is fun to watch.

On the former, I get it. I understand his frustration and his voicing of it on the field. However, I just wish that at some point during the season he'd have realized that that wasn't helping and been more vocal as a positive force on the field - a bit more of a cheerleader if you will. If he could tap into some of what Murph had as a team leader on the field, I believe it would have helped our team chemistry and performance tremendously. I only put that on him because he commands so much deference as a player.

[RidgeRider]

 :dead horse:

another thread about others posters opinions veiled with references to actual players.

Every player on our squad, sans Davies and McBride, has been slated on this board at one time or another. While Berbatov has been slated at times for lazy play and getting frustrated with his teammates, he has also been referred to repeatedly as 'class', our best player ever, and many other superlatives. He is not a perfect player but he is an exceptional player with skills beyond anyone else on our squad....but he is not perfect.

BTW, the Dempsey comparison doesn't wash with me, Dempsey was anything but lazy and he has been annihilated for many seasons by many posters on here so to suggest Berbatov gets slated more than Dempsey did while he was here, and after, doesn't wash with me....but I'm one of the posters that suffers from a lack for footballing knowledge, so my opinion doesn't count anyway

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Well, as Joni Mitchell sang, 'you never know what you've got til it's gone'.

I have wondered is it just Fulham fans, or is it modern supporters generally, who don't apreciate a good thing when they see it?

Berba scored 15 goals last season - crucial goals, and many goals that only a top class striker could have scored, let alone Rodallegra or Petric; and he also worked hard, filling in in midfield when needed, and tackling back.

Pundits generally agreed his signing had been a great success, but come on the Fulham forums and you might get a different impression....!!!

I don't know what would happen if we signed Moore and Mullery today, or Best and Marsh, like we did in the 70s - would they be slagged off as too old and slow?

The difference now is that we have the internet and messageboards. Posters can respond instantly and anonymously. It just gives free reign to those with an obsession and malcontents, whether gushing in favour of or angrily against some point.

Too often viewing a messageboard is like entering a pub or joining a party late where most are many drinks into the evening, their inhibitions are considerably lowered and the opinionated and bores are holding court loudly.

[Bassey the warrior]

:dead horse:

another thread about others posters opinions veiled with references to actual players.

Every player on our squad, sans Davies and McBride, has been slated on this board at one time or another. While Berbatov has been slated at times for lazy play and getting frustrated with his teammates, he has also been referred to repeatedly as 'class', our best player ever, and many other superlatives. He is not a perfect player but he is an exceptional player with skills beyond anyone else on our squad....but he is not perfect.

BTW, the Dempsey comparison doesn't wash with me, Dempsey was anything but lazy and he has been annihilated for many seasons by many posters on here so to suggest Berbatov gets slated more than Dempsey did while he was here, and after, doesn't wash with me....but I'm one of the posters that suffers from a lack for footballing knowledge, so my opinion doesn't count anyway

I'm sorry but Dempsey was lazy. Every game he was virtually a passenger unless he had the opportunity to score, granted his greed often saved our asses and that made up for him not being a team player.
I wish Berba was a bit more greedy but not as much as Dempsey. Berba's work as a creator is just as important as his work as a finisher.
Dempsey was and remains a Fulham legend and I genuinely hope he makes it at Spurs. His fearlessness and determination in the 6 yard box propelled us to our highest ever league position and his sublime lob against Buffon facilitated our passage to the Europa final. But Berba was equally vital last season. Without him we'd have been relegated. It's that simple.

Edit: By the way I made it clear I was talking about now and last season, so AFTER Dempsey left. That was entirely the point, people had a selective memory about his strengths and weaknesses.
I could talk for a long time about his strengths, namely his steely determination to do whatever necessary to score with little regard for his own safety, but the same for Berba, and some people on here choose to talk only about Dempsey's strengths and only about Berba's weaknesses. That right there is my grievance.
Neither was perfect but both were the main difference between success and failure (them and Schwarzer).

[Bassey the warrior]

I haven't posted on here for a while but I browse the board from time to time and occasionally CC too. Obviously his name is mentioned less often now, but it does annoy me that whenever Dempsey is referred to (as a player that is, not the person) he's spoken of as if he were world class. Berba however is usually roundly criticised on both boards by most posters.
Let's re-jog our memories. Dempsey scored plenty of goals granted, many of them vital, but he was also very wasteful with his wild long range shots, very greedy and very lazy and reluctant to track back.
Berba also scored lots of  goals, often vital goals, tracked back more often, created more chances and kept the ball better and was simply a joy to watch.
Granted Dempsey was far more willing to get in the six yard box, something Berba did far too rarely, but this is something I expect will change if we get more creativity.
My intention here is not so much to denigrate Dempsey's Fulham career, but to voice my protest against the Berba bashing. We're  fortunate to have a genuinely world class player at our club, let's not speed up his departure.

Obviously.

Why is it necessary to make this comparison? Why not voice your concern about just the "Berba bashing" if that's your ONLY concern?  :54:

Because it the highlights the double standards and dare I say it hypocrisy used to denigrate Berba and place Dempsey without criticism.  Anyway I have to go to work, will be on later.

[RidgeRider]

I haven't posted on here for a while but I browse the board from time to time and occasionally CC too. Obviously his name is mentioned less often now, but it does annoy me that whenever Dempsey is referred to (as a player that is, not the person) he's spoken of as if he were world class. Berba however is usually roundly criticised on both boards by most posters.
Let's re-jog our memories. Dempsey scored plenty of goals granted, many of them vital, but he was also very wasteful with his wild long range shots, very greedy and very lazy and reluctant to track back.
Berba also scored lots of  goals, often vital goals, tracked back more often, created more chances and kept the ball better and was simply a joy to watch.
Granted Dempsey was far more willing to get in the six yard box, something Berba did far too rarely, but this is something I expect will change if we get more creativity.
My intention here is not so much to denigrate Dempsey's Fulham career, but to voice my protest against the Berba bashing. We're  fortunate to have a genuinely world class player at our club, let's not speed up his departure.

Obviously.

Why is it necessary to make this comparison? Why not voice your concern about just the "Berba bashing" if that's your ONLY concern?  :54:

Because it the highlights the double standards and dare I say it hypocrisy used to denigrate Berba and place Dempsey without criticism.  Anyway I have to go to work, will be on later.

Dempsey was slated mercilessly....selective memory??