tour de france

[nose]

Sorry can't see what normal people see in watching a bunch of blokes in lycra with padded crotches riding a bike up and down hills  065.gif

i used to think that. but it is very technical, the team work is amazing the tactics really intracate but particulalry on long flat stages I agree it can be exteremly boring to watch. but once i got hooked i was really hooked. i think you are correct it isn't normal to watch but they reckon there are about 2,000,000+ hard core enthusiasts and for a sport that till recently had no proper media support that is really good going.

but you have to understand what the teams are up to to understand why it is exciting but i can see why cycling is a turn off for some... BUT still my point was that the guys fall off and with lumps of flesh hanging off they carry on, broken bones and all.

[nose]

Cycling is a completely different culture to football.

It's all about  being able to tolerate suffering, and getting back on the bike after a heavy fall, and continuing in a race if at all possible, is part of that. In the present TdF, Geraint Evans of Sky is riding with fractured pelvis -in great pain - and such things are not unusual in cycling.

Football just doesn't compare - 90 mins of playing football, doesn't compare to riding up and down mountains at impossible seeming speeds for over a hundred miles, and the continuing the next day - and every day for three weeks in the case of the Tour de France, and the other major tours.  Many Tour de France starters had been involved in long races a couple of weeks before.

Football is a game for pampered softies by comparison with cycling.

Yes I agree, you are right and the point is it is spoiling the game.

The beauty of football was that it was a contact sport but would still flow. Now at the slightest touch players fall to the floor, look like they are dying and the next second running like they are carefree kittens (is that a good metaphore?). Actually if you watch suarez he is skilled at bringing himself down, regualrly catching his own ankles in the hope of getting a free kick, penalty or an opponent sent off.

I still love football with a passion, but the players? What a disgrace they are, pampered softies is, i believe, being rather too kind to them.

You say I don't watch Football? I watch every game of the season but you obviously don't watch a lot of Football, you only watch what Sky Sports shows you... pretty much the ugly stuff which nobody wants to see, if you actually watch Suarez a lot of the time he is a really strong striker who will battle for anything, same with Ronaldo. I haven't seen enough of Neymar but what I saw from the confidential cup Neymar dived twice... you make it sound like every time he gets the chance he dives to floor which is a load of crap. You obviously don't watch the full 90 minutes of matches. I am not saying diving is right but you're saying it like they dive EVERY match which isn't the case, Bale dived 3 times this season out of 38 matches... I don't think it is out of control.

'I don't give a monkeys about basketball and rugby is a thugs game anyway'

I take it you've never played rugby thereby haven't a Scooby what you're talking about. I love both football and rugby equally as they both possess different qualities, physically and etically. I played football at senior level on Saturdays, and rugby at a crap level on Sundays. And I take offence that someone can say my rugby team mates and opponents were 'thugs'. Get on yer bike mate.

I agree, you're judging people before you even know them. It's like saying all Football fans are hooligans.

Like.. Sorry if I came across as a bit agressive but my rugby mates and opponents were by and large great blokes.. I just resent any kind of generalisation borne out of ignorance.. Anyway - rant over and I still love you Nose my friend :-)

i love everyone that is a fulham fan and actually get what you say i am known to be  a triffle opinionated so am happy for others to speak their minds.

actually i have loads of friends that play rugby and i truly don't get the game. I have also seen the most awful injuries in rugby, air ambulance and all, there are whole sections of the game that are just not safe, and if you are at the bottom of the heap when they all pile in you are gambling your safety. That's one reason i worry about it.

with football i want to see the game flow so when players fall unnecessarily it breaks up the play and creates stop start which is a shame. actually i have had a seaon ticket for 50+ years and am still playing myself (slowly). i try to keep our games flowing at all times.....

i missed the season as soon as the last whistle blew at swansea and can hardly wait for the next one to start

[nose]

ok, I watched yesterday and the race is not over yet......

Sky faltered big time, one rider missed the cut, one crashed, and Richie Porte was dropped and lost like 17 minutes, so second place is no longer a possibility for him. Froome isolated by Moviestar, Belkin, and Saxo Bank.

Best stage I have seen in a long time with Garmin Sharp winning the stage with Irishman Dan Martin and the team as whole busting the race open with 4 separate attacks. Very exciting. I may spoken too soon.  :022:

it will take a mega upset for froome to fail. he could crack in a mountain stage but it looks unlikley and i am not sure the opposition is that strong. the columbian is the one that could upset the pack if he can really get away on a big climb.

but my tip is froome and cav in paris..... hardly contrevertial!

[epsomraver]

Sorry can't see what normal people see in watching a bunch of blokes in lycra with padded crotches riding a bike up and down hills  065.gif

Some would say the same about 22 grown men being paid per week what most would love to have per year kicking a bag of leather around trying to get it into a fishing net held up by two posts and an upright and thousands of others watching on  065.gif

[Forever Fulham]

How true.  Reminds me of comedian Bill Cosby's classic take on golf:
Bill Cosby - Golf & Football

[JBH]

Sorry can't see what normal people see in watching a bunch of blokes in lycra with padded crotches riding a bike up and down hills  065.gif

Some would say the same about 22 grown men being paid per week what most would love to have per year kicking a bag of leather around trying to get it into a fishing net held up by two posts and an upright and thousands of others watching on  065.gif

Oh sorry I forgot to add "Performance drug enhanced"  065.gif

[FFC1987]

How did people learn about the tactics etc in biking? I road bike everyday and love cycling around London and bear in mind my ignorance but I haven't really watched a whole race before and can't get out of my head that all they do is pedal to the finish line to win. As said, I'm sure thats makes me largely ignorant to the majority but its a sport that I never followed or watch but would like to. Any tips other than watch the racing?

[RidgeRider]

Cavendish will be relegated today for a blatant shoulder to put Degenkolb on the pavement during the sprint. Nasty move.

[RidgeRider]

How did people learn about the tactics etc in biking? I road bike everyday and love cycling around London and bear in mind my ignorance but I haven't really watched a whole race before and can't get out of my head that all they do is pedal to the finish line to win. As said, I'm sure thats makes me largely ignorant to the majority but its a sport that I never followed or watch but would like to. Any tips other than watch the racing?

Bike racing tactics are more intricate than meets the eye. There are loads of interdependencies because there are so many teams and riders involved. Each rider races within the context of a team and each rider has a role in that team. Each team has day to day goals and overall goals.

Generally, a team sets a plan before an entire tour starts and then each day as each race begins. This is one of the few sports where you have 22 teams with 9 riders on each team. Not many sports have that many separate entities all executing a different plan.

It would take forever to explain all the possibilities but essentially only 4-6 teams have a chance to win the whole tour, the rest are just trying to win more minor honors like winning a single stage. Many of the teams would consider that a successful tour and the vast majority of the teams don't have a stage winner. They may also want to have a rider win the best climber, best sprinter or best young rider awards.

I would suggest watching Eurosports coverage of the race as they usually have an ex Pro racer providing analysis on the race. There are so many possibilities, and new terms, that watching and listening is the best way to learn...or you could race like I do and learn them first hand!

[bill taylors apprentice]

Cavendish will be relegated today for a blatant shoulder to put Degenkolb on the pavement during the sprint. Nasty move.

For someone who has a knowledge of the sport I am surprised you say that.
While the official view on aggressive sprinting has changed in recent years and leaning on your rival, switching your line etc is now not excepted, today's crash was in fact a good demonstration in the art of sprinting by Cavendish.
Not only did you get the crashed rider's name wrong, the jury didn't agree with you either.  
With the road veering left and the Argos team rider moving right Cav did what any good bike handler should do and ensured that it was not himself that was going to be disadvantaged when they came together.
Granted he didn't see Cav coming but he didn't hold his line and Cav had every right to defend himself by bracing himself as they hit.

[sipwell]

Cavendish will be relegated today for a blatant shoulder to put Degenkolb on the pavement during the sprint. Nasty move.

For someone who has a knowledge of the sport I am surprised you say that.
While the official view on aggressive sprinting has changed in recent years and leaning on your rival, switching your line etc is now not excepted, today's crash was in fact a good demonstration in the art of sprinting by Cavendish.
Not only did you get the crashed rider's name wrong, the jury didn't agree with you either.   
With the road veering left and the Argos team rider moving right Cav did what any good bike handler should do and ensured that it was not himself that was going to be disadvantaged when they came together.
Granted he didn't see Cav coming but he didn't hold his line and Cav had every right to defend himself by bracing himself as they hit.

RR has some weird views on cycling. He also disapproves of a team annoying the other teams (by placing one of their kin at the helm/second place of the chasing group) to keep their man all alone up front. I also don't agree with RR here (he has a weird sense of fair play).

Bar that, I think RR has a pretty good understanding of bike racing... He is allowed his weekly gaffe :P

[RidgeRider]

Cavendish will be relegated today for a blatant shoulder to put Degenkolb on the pavement during the sprint. Nasty move.

For someone who has a knowledge of the sport I am surprised you say that.
While the official view on aggressive sprinting has changed in recent years and leaning on your rival, switching your line etc is now not excepted, today's crash was in fact a good demonstration in the art of sprinting by Cavendish.
Not only did you get the crashed rider's name wrong, the jury didn't agree with you either.  
With the road veering left and the Argos team rider moving right Cav did what any good bike handler should do and ensured that it was not himself that was going to be disadvantaged when they came together.
Granted he didn't see Cav coming but he didn't hold his line and Cav had every right to defend himself by bracing himself as they hit.

Well, I did get the riders name wrong, mostly because that was who the announcers said had hit the pavement in the crash, it happened so fast, you couldn't tell it was Veelers until afterwards.

There is nothing 'artful' about what Cavs did today. While the road, onward,  did veer left, he was clearly gunning for Kittel's wheel and he squared off Veelers to try and get there because he knew he was in trouble.

Veelers had peeled off the sprint, so he wasn't sprinting, and his slight movement to his right was certainly not unusual, and part of every sprint, and believe it or not, a sprinter can move laterally even at full gas. I've been in a fair few, but all you have to do is watch a few to know guys can move around riders who are peeling off the 'leadout'. Just watch the sprint again and see how many guys made split second manuevers to avoid the crashing rider that Cav put on the ground due to reckless riding. Those that avoided him were moving nearly as fast and had to move a great deal more to avoid the falling rider.

People in the media and in the peloton are too PC in front of the media to say it was reckless. Go talk to Tom Veelers or his teammate and see what they think of what happened.

He should have been relegated but he is Cavendish so it didn't happen.

And of course Cav blamed his teammates again for his 3rd place.

[RaySmith]

Veelers clearly crossed the white line over to Cav's side - and Cav didn't change course, just braced himself for the collision, which clearly put him off, since he didn't get out of the saddle to challenge for the win.

This all happened in a spit second of real time, of course, and  it doesn't seem possible that Cav could have avoided Veelers. These things are bound to happen in  sprints like this.

If Cav had had have been in any way at fault, then surely the race officials would have penalised him, as they have been all too ready to do draconially in the past.

[nose]

cav was clearly at fault but i don't think it was so bad as to eliminate him from the race.
the overhead pictures and the front on pictures show he is clearly over reacting but sprinters have to be aggressive in the last few meters or they get nowhere.

[bill taylors apprentice]

Cavendish will be relegated today for a blatant shoulder to put Degenkolb on the pavement during the sprint. Nasty move.

For someone who has a knowledge of the sport I am surprised you say that.
While the official view on aggressive sprinting has changed in recent years and leaning on your rival, switching your line etc is now not excepted, today's crash was in fact a good demonstration in the art of sprinting by Cavendish.
Not only did you get the crashed rider's name wrong, the jury didn't agree with you either.   
With the road veering left and the Argos team rider moving right Cav did what any good bike handler should do and ensured that it was not himself that was going to be disadvantaged when they came together.
Granted he didn't see Cav coming but he didn't hold his line and Cav had every right to defend himself by bracing himself as they hit.

Well, I did get the riders name wrong, mostly because that was who the announcers said had hit the pavement in the crash, it happened so fast, you couldn't tell it was Veelers until afterwards.

There is nothing 'artful' about what Cavs did today. While the road, onward,  did veer left, he was clearly gunning for Kittel's wheel and he squared off Veelers to try and get there because he knew he was in trouble.

Veelers had peeled off the sprint, so he wasn't sprinting, and his slight movement to his right was certainly not unusual, and part of every sprint, and believe it or not, a sprinter can move laterally even at full gas. I've been in a fair few, but all you have to do is watch a few to know guys can move around riders who are peeling off the 'leadout'. Just watch the sprint again and see how many guys made split second manuevers to avoid the crashing rider that Cav put on the ground due to reckless riding. Those that avoided him were moving nearly as fast and had to move a great deal more to avoid the falling rider.

People in the media and in the peloton are too PC in front of the media to say it was reckless. Go talk to Tom Veelers or his teammate and see what they think of what happened.

He should have been relegated but he is Cavendish so it didn't happen.

And of course Cav blamed his teammates again for his 3rd place.

You are entitled to you view, but all I know is if i was in Cav's position, looking to sprint and in a blink of an eye I read the movement of another rider coming towards me. I have to assume he is going to keep coming and therefore I make sure in any coming together my priority is my safety.
I too know all about sprinting from a road bunch and on the track and some have the gift and others have to work hard to achieve any minor success. Saying its an art may be a bit romantic but the skills involved include controlled aggression and that's what I saw. 

 

[RidgeRider]

cav was clearly at fault but i don't think it was so bad as to eliminate him from the race.
the overhead pictures and the front on pictures show he is clearly over reacting but sprinters have to be aggressive in the last few meters or they get nowhere.

Just know that I am not suggesting he be kicked out of the race, like his teammate did a couple of years ago for headbutting another rider while fighting for position...he should have just been relegated to the back and placed last in the sprint group, thus no 'Sprinters' points.

Anyway, made for some nice drama in and otherwise boring flat stage yesterday.

Froome should show who is the fittest today and put another minute into his rivals.

[Lighthouse]

I am sorry this sport confuses me. Why do they throw bags of urine again?

[nose]

cav was clearly at fault but i don't think it was so bad as to eliminate him from the race.
the overhead pictures and the front on pictures show he is clearly over reacting but sprinters have to be aggressive in the last few meters or they get nowhere.

Just know that I am not suggesting he be kicked out of the race, like his teammate did a couple of years ago for headbutting another rider while fighting for position...he should have just been relegated to the back and placed last in the sprint group, thus no 'Sprinters' points.

Anyway, made for some nice drama in and otherwise boring flat stage yesterday.

Froome should show who is the fittest today and put another minute into his rivals.

Yes agreed, i knew what you meant, i didn't actually mean disqulified, I also meant put in last place for the day (I pushed send to quick and forgot to change it afterwards).

Me I love the ITV 4 coverage, and as a reult my attention was drawn to a book called   
How I Won the Yellow Jumper  by ned boulting

It is a really great read and very insightful. Quite funny too.
Looking forward to the stages in the alps.

[RidgeRider]

I am sorry this sport confuses me. Why do they throw bags of urine again?

haha, yep I heard he had some d-bag throw a bag of urine on him today and many spectators were jeering at him when he came by today. I understand being disappointed at what happened, as i was yesterday, but the officials made their decision so time to move on and not do something totally juvenile like that...

[RidgeRider]

the winds have chopped up the peloton today and put some excitement back in the tour. Contador, Ten Dam, and Mollema putting a minute + into the yellow jersey and ValVerde is now out of the yellow jersey chase with a very untimely flat.

Probably won't change things in the end but.....very exciting racing for what could have been a boring flat stage.