Expectations of a Manager

[TonyGilroy]

Jol isn't Hodgson but let's be honest. Hodgson's teams NEVER looked as if they were trying to win away from home. Ultimately we came to appreciate Hodgson BECAUSE of the results which you can boil down to mid table and one fantastic cup run. The second in our entire history.

If you try to say that Jol's results aren't really that bad the answer is that the style, tactics and "cohesion" are wrong.

Actually we have never consistently played with style in the Premier League. Tigana became toothless, Coleman was very hit and miss, Sanchez was a disaster. It started to come good towards the end under Hughes but sadly he was too good for us.

My point is not to defend Jol but to try to understand why he seems to be held to higher standards than his predecessors. I suspect it's because we're bored with mediocrity and have forgotten that at this level that's about as good as it gets because the standard is so damned high.

[HatterDon]

as I've said many many times, my problem with Jol is not about our league position, it's about the unorganized way we play and his inability to (a) prepare his team for an opponent and (b) react at halftime to how the game is turning.

It's not a zero-sum game. You can play good football and still survive. The fact is that we have more talent in our squad than we've had in a very long time, and we've turned into the slowest most predictable team in the division, and Fortress Craven Cottage has become an oxymoron.

[Holders]

I tend to agree with Hatter. I don't think that Jol's being held to higher standards except inasmuch as we perceive less of a game plan, cohesion and discipline than under any other of the aforementioned managers save Sanchez.

[nose]

Jol isn't Hodgson but let's be honest. Hodgson's teams NEVER looked as if they were trying to win away from home. Ultimately we came to appreciate Hodgson BECAUSE of the results which you can boil down to mid table and one fantastic cup run. The second in our entire history.

If you try to say that Jol's results aren't really that bad the answer is that the style, tactics and "cohesion" are wrong.

Actually we have never consistently played with style in the Premier League. Tigana became toothless, Coleman was very hit and miss, Sanchez was a disaster. It started to come good towards the end under Hughes but sadly he was too good for us.

My point is not to defend Jol but to try to understand why he seems to be held to higher standards than his predecessors. I suspect it's because we're bored with mediocrity and have forgotten that at this level that's about as good as it gets because the standard is so damned high.

Personally i do not think jol is being held to a different standard.

Based on the players he has now, and had before, he does not seem to get the best from the team. they do not seem as organised/disciplined as they should be OR maybe its just poor choice of tactics and team selection. Whatever it is we are certainly underacheiving.

regarding Roy , his football was dull but you absolutely knew he would get the maximum from the team and they would give everything for the cause.... I do not believe that now. that is one reasion why Jol is so criticized.

[TonyGilroy]

OK. We have the talent but they're slow.

Is Jol slowing them down or are they incapable of playing quicker.

We don't know what happens at half time but Jol is much quicker in making substitutions than Hodgson or Coleman.

Predictable? Which teams aren't. With so much video evidence there are no surprises these days. Managers and coaches all know how their opponents will play.

Last night was seriously disappointing. We dominated for 70 minutes whilst being mostly ineffective and as soon as Burton raised their game we couldn't cope yet we still had the resilience to grind out a result.

I get that people aren't enjoying our football but I think it's boredom with the mediocrity of a mid table position in the Premier League. No promotion to aim for and no real prospect of finishing top 6.

I don't think any manager can change that.

[FFC1987]

I don't get this concept that he should have built on what we comfortably achieved ie. top 8-10 and a europa final team etc. It's a simple equation put in that sense but surely there are too many variables to consider it as straight forward. Money spent by clubs around us, over achieving (arguably) under Hodgson and the fact we now don't offer in the transfer market which others have had (considering previous managers spending and other teams inflating). I think its a limited view to say such without real perspective being used (in my humble opinion). I don't think there is harm in wanting to drive for top 6 as I think every fan would secretly say they *want* it but as the OP says, its the expectation of it i'd raise issue with. I'd like to think we can get behind the club regardless of how indifferent you feel to Jol and not become a petulent club like Rovers who constantly boo'd from the stands showing no class etc.

[BarryP]

To read some of the comments Jol is clearly the world's most incompetent manager. There's a long list of the things he can't do and the things he does do he does badly.

Yet, taken as a whole, the results have been OK. Not great but OK and in response I'll be reminded of all the bad results whilst completely ignoring those where we've actually won some points. Enough to finish mid table which is er OK.

I have been in the have patience with Jol camp but I must admit that I am beginning to feel like I am watching Groundhog Day with each successive Fulham match.  I seem to be seeing the same tactics, same slow play, same excessive back passing and similar defensive errors match after match extending back into last season.  My view is not a knee jerk reaction to the three matches played this season but a build up over time that Martin Jol may be too rigid in his view of how football should be played.

Supposedly Jol has his players this season and they may bed in and start producing fine football but so far I have seen little evidence to suggest that will happen.  What I expect out of a manager is for him to be able to see what is and is not happening on the pitch and devise a way to produce a different flow of play if what he is seeing is unacceptable. Results aside, I have to believe what Martin Jol has been seeing on the pitch has not been entirely acceptable football.  Through October Fulham has Newcastle (A), West Brom (H), Chelsea (A), Cardiff (H), Stoke (H), Crystal Palace (A) and Southampton (A).  With perhaps Chelsea away excluded, Fulham should not be shut down offensively and forced to entirely bunker in any of these matches.  How or if Fulham are able to dictate play will largely determine for me if Jol has turned the corner as Fulham's manager or not.

[BRNicholson]

OK. We have the talent but they're slow.

Is Jol slowing them down or are they incapable of playing quicker.

We don't know what happens at half time but Jol is much quicker in making substitutions than Hodgson or Coleman.

Predictable? Which teams aren't. With so much video evidence there are no surprises these days. Managers and coaches all know how their opponents will play.

Last night was seriously disappointing. We dominated for 70 minutes whilst being mostly ineffective and as soon as Burton raised their game we couldn't cope yet we still had the resilience to grind out a result.

I get that people aren't enjoying our football but I think it's boredom with the mediocrity of a mid table position in the Premier League. No promotion to aim for and no real prospect of finishing top 6.

I don't think any manager can change that.

I'd say the tactics and formation are definitely a contributing factor to our inability to attack with pace. The personnel don't necessarily help either - we have players born to break up an attack - but that is also Jol's lookout.

I'll agree that Jol is quicker to make changes that previous managers but they are almost always like-for-like, rarely to inject more pace and attacking onus into a side, and often see the current MoM replaced. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but it's rare that he'll make three subs without one of them seeming ludicrous to everyone watching.

Predictability is, of course, expected. But you also have plans B, C and D. Arsenal have been torn apart by pundits in the past when they're short of ideas and they're normal plan isn't working. When you've got limited ability in your squad, tactical adaptability becomes all the more vital and Jol has rarely shown an ability to adapt. Agreed, Roy didn't either, but he didn't have such a wealth of different attacking combinations at his disposal.

Personally, I'd love to aim for top 6, top 8, top half. Given the squad's overall quality, we should certainly be pushing for the latter at the least, but with the way we're playing at present we'll find that very hard going.

Overall, my only expectations of Jol are that he can keep us up, and have us looking like a team where the players know and understand what they're doing when they're out on the pitch. At the moment, they really don't.