Sir Roy's half time talk

[west kowloon white]

Had it been anyone else eg Capello,can't help feeling the outcry over the monkey comment would have been much stronger despite the hasty apology?

[horse1031]

i think Roy is such a genuine guy and so sensitive to that type of thing that they will forgive him.  If they would have not qualified though, he probably would be raked over the coals for that.

[Sammyffc]

the biggest joke i've ever heard. If the kick it out campaign actually try to do roy for this they will become one of the biggest laughing stocks in the country.

[FFC1987]

I don't think this will go any further. No one took offence, it wasn't racially motivated and its really poor journalism from the journalists who are still sulking that they didn't get there blue eyed boy Arry. The journalists reporting this as a story should be ashamed, another shameful turn to try and tarnish Roy's name.

the biggest joke i've ever heard. If the kick it out campaign actually try to do roy for this they will become one of the biggest laughing stocks in the country.

Absolutely agree here. How can people come out and say they're offended when the person it was said to knew the context of the team talk and didn't take offence. It's people plugging for trouble and feeling sorry for themselves.

[The Doctor]

Offence is being taken on behalf of the wrong party.  In the context of the joke the monkey is the brains of the outfit who will contribute the most to the successful completion of the mission.  The human astronaut is only there to make sure the monkey is able to do his job.

If Hodgson thinks so little of defenders, then Smalling (apparently likened to the human astronaut) should throw his cap back at Hodgson and tell him to stuff any future call-ups.  See how well we get on in Brazil with a bunch of mindless drones at the back

[Bassey the warrior]

Fail to see the racist element.

[Sammyffc]

the whole country is getting so politically correct its horrendous. People are probably in fear of saying anything  incase they get reported and so on. This country is going down the shitter quicker than a late night curry

[God The Mechanic]

Fail to see the racist element.

It's cos he said monkey.  Cos... um... monkey.  You been to a zoo recently?  They don't have m-words there cos that would be racist they have um... errrr... balls.

If you look at it in context there's absolutely nothing to defend from Roy's perspective (or anyone else had they said it).  The most ridiculous thing is that someone within the camp decided to leak it to the press rather than either say to RH himself "that's a bit iffy ain't it boss?" or if they didn't feel comfortable going to him direct (cos that guy instills the fear of god in even the mightiest of warriors...) speak to the damn captain!!  The fact that he decided to leak it anonymously is the most spineless and pathetic thing I've seen in football in a while.  Have some balls man!  If you take offence say so!  It's not like the racism debate isn't making news here, everyone takes offence to everything these days.  It's out there, it ain't the 1950s anymore!

[west kowloon white]

Couldn't agree more with most of the above and didn't intend to side with the PC brigade.Wonder who in the dressing room leaked the quote to whom and why?

[Two Ton Ted]

The "PC mob" didn't get hold it this, it was that well know lefty phamplet The Sun.

As indicated, it's the hacks trying to get back at Hodgson as their ghostwriter was not given the job.

[TonyGilroy]

Nothing wrong with political correctness - it simply means being polite.

No way was this racist in my opinion. Jokes about monkeys can only offend monkeys.

I wouldn't mind though having a polite discussion with Roy about his decision to play in apartheid South Africa back in the 1970s and asking whether he now recognises how wrong that was.

[God The Mechanic]

I wouldn't mind though having a polite discussion with Roy about his decision to play in apartheid South Africa back in the 1970s and asking whether he now recognises how wrong that was.

Things were way different back then.  And hasn't he already come out and said he played there cos he was a footballer, and they offered him a job?  Nothing to do with political allegiances or support.

[Twig]

I wouldn't mind though having a polite discussion with Roy about his decision to play in apartheid South Africa back in the 1970s and asking whether he now recognises how wrong that was.

Things were way different back then.  And hasn't he already come out and said he played there cos he was a footballer, and they offered him a job?  Nothing to do with political allegiances or support.

I am a huge fan of Roy's and I saw no racist element to the half time talk. I agree it is poor journalism from that bastion of political correctness, the Sun.
Howeber Tony has a fair point, too many sportsmen accepted tarnished easy reward from a racist regime and then hid behind a weak argument along the lines that sport should not be mixed with politics.  That is, and always was, a specious argument.  The best answer would be to fess up and admit that in those less enlightened times mistakes were made that those involved now regret.

[God The Mechanic]

Howeber Tony has a fair point, too many sportsmen accepted tarnished easy reward from a racist regime and then hid behind a weak argument along the lines that sport should not be mixed with politics.  That is, and always was, a specious argument.  The best answer would be to fess up and admit that in those less enlightened times mistakes were made that those involved now regret.

But in those "less enlightened times" was it a mistake?  It's all well and good saying that with hindsight, something that RH acknowledged when he said: ""I and other guys playing in the league there were anti-apartheid, but there's not much we could have done of it. We all thought it was an evil regime."".

If you make a decision (at a particular point in time) and opinions change over the course of forty years, should you beheld accountable for those decisions?  To an extent yes, but it's not like he went around the deep south lynching folk, or actively oppressed people.  He had a job in a country that was less than stable and had an oppressive regime at the time, pretty much all "civil" societies have oppressed someone (or group of people) for some reason within the last few generations.  Should we expect them all to make heartfelt apologies for their actions that were at the time nothing out of the ordinary?  Do we look with disgust at anyone who chose to work in America during the decades of racial segregation?

Had he moved to SA to actively and voluntarily oppress a race then he absolutely has something to answer for.  But for merely being in a place that had oppression, all because his job took him there, and only for a year hardly warrants an apology.

In my opinion :)


Also, this is probably at least verging on becoming a bit too political.  So if the powers that be aren't happy with this being in the public domain feel free to edit/delete as appropriate.  But I'd be more than happy to continue any discussion by PM.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

He is not racist. But if he had thought for a second he would have rephrased his instructions. Half time, pressure game, only 15 minutes to make your point, roy was just barking out tactics and did not mean any offence.

[TheManOnTheBus]

monkey is racist (normally) in football terms or other terms, because you get monkey noises in Lazio games when a black player appears for the opposition, and bananas thrown on the pitch, etc, etc.  Black players=africa=inferior=monkey. 

It is potentially racist here because Roy used it about a black player.

Would he have made the same joke about a non-black player?  Well perhaps he might have done and if so then not racist.  But if he chose this joke because Andros was black, then .....  who know's why he chose it? 

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

More interesting, someone in the dressing room thought it racist enough to report it. (I assume the Sun were not there in person to witness.)

[jms]

Having seen the joke written down, it is clearly not racist in any shape or form.  However, using the word 'Monkey' in a modern football context e.g  players changing room, where black and mix raced players have been called monkeys, and other offensive words by people in football crowds.......does strike me as a foolish thing for Roy to have done. It's not a brilliant analogy either, for the point he was trying to get across.
We all say things we regret, and Roy must be furious with himself about giving his critics a chance to 'have a go.'
I suggest he start reading less Philip Roth and more Dale Spender ( 'Man made Language' ).....
By the way...
Was very impressed by some of the books people on this forum were reading in the 'What books are you reading? ' thread.
Anyway......Sir Roy, still best man for the job, whatever ..... 049:gif

[west kowloon white]

Getting away from football but just googled political correctness and just being polite does not seem to figure in the dictionary definition.

[bill taylors apprentice]

i think Roy is such a genuine guy and so sensitive to that type of thing that they will forgive him.  If they would have not qualified though, he probably would be raked over the coals for that.

Forgive him, for what?

If the player or whoever went to the press thinks he can keep his anonymity, he is very much mistaken and when this happens he will be hung out to dry by much of the media.

[Burt]

I've found my teacup... All I need to do now is find a storm to go in it.