Merged: Felix In/Out threads

[ToodlesMcToot]

No I don't believe at all. The experimentation is stupid.  Anyone with any trace of a football brain knows Burn should have started long ago and Fotheringham should have never taken the field. We'll be lucky to stay up. I don't care what his CV says.  It's misleading by the way.  His last reign at Schalke also had questionable squad selections and tactical shortcomings. Then he took a Wolfsburg team who had quite a bit of talent and just got a mid-table finish.  So why is he so great again? Oh yeah for stuff he did years ago avoiding relegation and winning championships with Bayern. I'm inclined to believe that has to do more with the talent of the team and the competition surrounding them than his difference making as a manager.

Taking wolfsburg from mid table to champions... a piece of cake , stuttgart and schalke to runners up positions...pieces of cake,  and bayern champions twice and cup twice . Some people read the negative bs on the internet and believe every word and it clouds their judgement.
I know I'm beginning to sound like a magath fan boy but I'm not I just believe in giving a decent manager a decent chance.

Just to muddy the waters a little bit about the Magath 'Legacy'.  If he is such a fantastic Manager, why was he out of work for over 18 months??  Who are you trying to convince?  If he is such a legend than why did no-one rush in to make him their Manager? Especially in Germany, where he had all of his success?  Could it be that people realised he was trying to still use 20th Century methods in the 21st Century? Time moves on and if Managers don't they stagnate and so do the teams stuck with them.  Just throwing that out there.

Could it be that he wasn't really looking for a job? Could it be that he was looking for the right job for him? Could it be that "20th century methods in the 21st century" sounds pretty but doesn't mean anything? You do realize that all those championships and cup titles, 2nd places, Champions League births, Europa league births, et al were won in the ........ wait for it ........ 21st Century, dontcha?

[Frank]

There were two options for the season 14/15:
1. Let the young players play so that they become top players or
2. invest heavily and go for promotion
I think Felix convinced Mr. Khan to choose the first option. The decision for this option has nothing to do with money. This option includes the high risk of staying another year in the champioship but there is also the chance to accomplish something extraordinary.
For example Hyndman already plays for his national team. If he becomes a great player everyone will say: thank you fulham.

[ToodlesMcToot]

There were two options for the season 14/15:
1. Let the young players play so that they become top players or
2. invest heavily and go for promotion
I think Felix convinced Mr. Khan to choose the first option. The decision for this option has nothing to do with money. This option includes the high risk of staying another year in the champioship but there is also the chance to accomplish something extraordinary.
For example Hyndman already plays for his national team. If he becomes a great player everyone will say: thank you fulham.

I believe it has quite a lot to do with money. Option 1 allows us to play our most valuable assets and allow them to become even more valuable both on the pitch and to larger clubs. Option 1 allows us to conduct our work in the transfer market with a "break even" mentality, only supplementing our youth with, for the most part, cheap but experienced players. This option allows us to sell off assets like Pat Roberts (they are already prepping us for this eventuality) and fund other signings or other club work. I believe it will help get us back to the PL but, it won't be happening this season.

Option 2 might have sounded good to Mr. Khan in the immediate aftermath of losing out Premiership status but, I don't believe anyone at the club - except every manager we've ever hired - wants to spend what is required to get us there and keep us there. We're either going to be able to fund our activities to get to and maintain the PL thru finding, developing, and selling talented youth players or we'll yo-yo between the two leagues. Nothing about Khan, right now, says that he's going to throw money at the situation.

[nose]

sorry but I am not sure what you are saying. Is that mickey adams was lucky to follow branfoot who was misuderstood? or are you saying branfoot was an idiot and anybody would have been good after him?

Mickey was lucky to follow Branfoot, who had restored some much needed discipline to the club after the Dicks/Mackay era shambles. He was also good enough to make use of the players available, which Branfoot had struggled to do. Luckily both Hill and Muddyman realised this and persuaded Branfoot to step upstairs as general manager, letting Mickey start us on the road to promotion.
There are certain similarities to the current situation, but I would like to see if Felix can succeed rather than yet another man come in and take over.

#

Oh in that case i am 100% in disagreement and in fact Jimmy Hill was good enough to talk to me about the situation because I was very outspoken re the man.
Branfoot was leading us straight into the conference, we were second to bottom of the bottom division, had just lost to the bottom team and were playing the worst rubbish. He destroyed players confidence, rory hamill was broken by branfoot, i met him and could see that for myself. Branfoot undermined the players and anyone not in his immediate entourage and pretty much failed for us and previous to that southampton, whos supporters sent us branfoot out T shirts. We didn't have discipline we had a tyrant, that was entirely different.
wasn't duncan jupp called up to the scotland squad only for branfoot to drop him immediately after and he was our best player (more or less). The man was a walking disaster.

they had to remove him to upsatirs for a short time because they couldn't afford to pay him off.
Branfoot played dour defensive football of the worst type, he was our worst ever manager by about 1000 miles and i have seen poor ones.
just my opinion.

mickey adams played fast attacking football and was a breath of fresh air.

Whoever follows Magath will have a different nightmare to deal with.

[premFlem]

No I don't believe at all. The experimentation is stupid.  Anyone with any trace of a football brain knows Burn should have started long ago and Fotheringham should have never taken the field. We'll be lucky to stay up. I don't care what his CV says.  It's misleading by the way.  His last reign at Schalke also had questionable squad selections and tactical shortcomings. Then he took a Wolfsburg team who had quite a bit of talent and just got a mid-table finish.  So why is he so great again? Oh yeah for stuff he did years ago avoiding relegation and winning championships with Bayern. I'm inclined to believe that has to do more with the talent of the team and the competition surrounding them than his difference making as a manager.

Taking wolfsburg from mid table to champions... a piece of cake , stuttgart and schalke to runners up positions...pieces of cake,  and bayern champions twice and cup twice . Some people read the negative bs on the internet and believe every word and it clouds their judgement.
I know I'm beginning to sound like a magath fan boy but I'm not I just believe in giving a decent manager a decent chance.

Just to muddy the waters a little bit about the Magath 'Legacy'.  If he is such a fantastic Manager, why was he out of work for over 18 months??  Who are you trying to convince?  If he is such a legend than why did no-one rush in to make him their Manager? Especially in Germany, where he had all of his success?  Could it be that people realised he was trying to still use 20th Century methods in the 21st Century? Time moves on and if Managers don't they stagnate and so do the teams stuck with them.  Just throwing that out there.

Could it be that he wasn't really looking for a job? Could it be that he was looking for the right job for him? Could it be that "20th century methods in the 21st century" sounds pretty but doesn't mean anything? You do realize that all those championships and cup titles, 2nd places, Champions League births, Europa league births, et al were won in the ........ wait for it ........ 21st Century, dontcha?

Beat me to the 21st century Toodles ...wolfsburg champions 2009, schalke runners up 2010
Heres  my attempt to clear the muddy waters....successful teams end up losing their best players to bigger/ richer clubs,
and owners of the successful clubs demand continued success nonetheless.
Thats me done defending Felix from now on hopefully the results will speak for themselves.

[Baszab]

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/2017840/felix-magath-philosophy-behind-fulhams-championship-struggles

[ScalleysDad]

A readable read. I thought the Hangaland debacle had been resolved as being not exactly accurate and a media mess. All the same the last line is a good summary of Magath.

[Canary White]

I might be wrong but if "career success" is defined with reference to major trophies then I think Magath is probably the third most successful manager currently working in the UK, behind Mourinho and Van Gaal and roughly tied with Wenger. That's excluding success as a player which, if included, blows all of them out of the water.

Of course, plenty of our concerns about Magath have a reasonable basis and as they say, past performance doesn't guarantee future results, but we won't see another manager like him in the second tier for a while, that's for sure.

[The Rock]

Why try and talk about facts and reason when it's irrelevant? We aren't getting promoted and he is 0 wins 1 draw and 4 losses with HIS team.

I will eat my words when we get 14 from the next 15 points. Save this post.

[crazycottager]

Why try and talk about facts and reason when it's irrelevant? We aren't getting promoted and he is 0 wins 1 draw and 4 losses with HIS team.

I will eat my words when we get 14 from the next 15 points. Save this post.

I concur, but the man is just baffling so far, I don't trust him to get this done to be frank, good signings, good selection, but something feels amiss to me, and i'm a little wary of the club making up his statements for him, just let the man tell it like it is, then i'll trust him.

[..Kya.ffc..]

Why try and talk about facts and reason when it's irrelevant? We aren't getting promoted and he is 0 wins 1 draw and 4 losses with HIS team.

I will eat my words when we get 14 from the next 15 points. Save this post.

I guess this is bombproof as it is impossible to get exactly 14 of the next 15 points. So no word eating for you. Was for a second getting excited seeing you try to flush it down with a  :beer: if it actually happened - then I realised. 082.gif

[HatterDon]

ESPN needs to tend its own garden first. They've completely hosed up their scoreboard. What the hell was wrong with the last dozen season's drop down box format? That used to be my "go-to" for quick scores on game days. Now it takes three bloody clicks just to see who scored and then only in the one match.

Good ol' Auntie Beeb for me.

[HatterDon]

As a Manager Felix has had the following success rate (including Fulham):
48,4 % Wins
22,2 % Draw
29,5 % Losses

Just as a Manager of Fulham Prem & Champ:
Played    Won      Drawn     Losses       Win       Draw     Losses
18            4           4             10          22%      22%      56%

At Fulham it is almost the polar opposite of Mr Magath's general Managerial career to date

I'd be willing to bet that the squad he inherited last season was the poorest bunch of players he ever had to deal with. We couldn't win a bloody toss by the time he got here.

[crazycottager]

that's some pretty good evidence for magath out, a win at reading is a must. for all the gloss he's put on the team with his xi, he needs to prove himself with a win, and a convincing one, against a team who have floundered. a win will edge me a little back onside, and intelligent selection even more so, but the wins have to keep coming and let's see if he can do that

[love4ffc]

My only comment about the article is that it looks almost copied and pasted straight from some of the postings on this board.  Not saying that it is good or bad.  Just that I don't see anything new or interesting in the article. 

[Snibbo]

Lazy journalism. Have a pot shot at silly old Fulham by recycling old material.

Fancy getting rid of a lot of experienced players (doesn't mention how crap they performed last season) and replacing them with youngsters (plus some quality experienced players like Bodurov).

Fancy signing last years Championship top scorer and his strike partner. Doomed.

[paddyuksw6]

I believe that when we gave Rene the boot last year it was when we were starting to play well and looked like getting results (Liverpool, Man U). This year it seems like we are playing well but not getting results.

I was particularly disappointed that Rene got sacked when we started to play well last year and thought it was a poor decision from the board. I feel that if we sack Magath now it will be an equally rash decision.

I think the opinion on whether you want Magath in or out now, may depend on how you viewed the sacking of Rene and the appointment of Magath in the first place.

Im not sure whether my view makes sense or not, I just don't feel like we should make the same mistakes that we did last year again. I don't think we will be relegated if we stick with Magath or sack Magath.

[RaySmith]

Yes Paddy - sacking Felix now will just repeat what happened with Rene -it would just mean we never gave either man a real chance -and what about the next bloke how many months will he get?

[Roberty]

There were two options for the season 14/15:
1. Let the young players play so that they become top players or
2. invest heavily and go for promotion
I think Felix convinced Mr. Khan to choose the first option. The decision for this option has nothing to do with money. This option includes the high risk of staying another year in the champioship but there is also the chance to accomplish something extraordinary.
For example Hyndman already plays for his national team. If he becomes a great player everyone will say: thank you fulham.

I don't think anyone convinced anyone about option 2, since your option 2 was not available

It might have existed if we'd had a nucleus of players remaining from last season, as was the case with both Cardiff and Norwich, but our squad was so past it's sell by date that there was effectively nothing to add some quality signing to

The only younger players we had were those emerging from the academy

[Roberty]

Unfortunately, While Magath is in charge, it will all end in tears.

Really - tears of joy?