Scotland

[Berserker]

Woe, woe and thrice woe.

[epsomraver]

Watch this. End of yes vote.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541&fref=nf

Wow he should have done the debate instead of Darling Darling, he really makes sense 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg

[Forever Fulham]

I think Krugman's argument is sound.  No good can come from separation.  Scotland takes more from the treasury than it contributes.  That North Sea oil is a finite resource.  Last how long?  Giving minors a vote seems insane to me.

[YankeeJim]

Enough of Scotland, I am sick of hearing about it. It was pathetic to watch the 3 Stooges lump up there telling them they love them like a brother. Well I don't, I look at them like a mother in law, best kept at a healthy distance. If I had an opportunity to vote now, I would vote for an Independent England, and an English Parliament, free from the need to subsidise every Scot to the tune of, and in excess of £1,600 English Pounds per head, free from the professional irritant Alex Salmond, and free of the mob of yes voters who think Monopoly money is the way ahead. I would love to see RBS move their HQ down to England, I would laugh when the SNP public spending promises were broken, and I would delight in sight Salmond begging for forgiveness from the mardy bunch of Scots who listened to his lies, like some sad ex begging you to take her back, well England are playing their lot in a football match in November. And we will give them another bloody nose, just like we did at the Battle of Culloden in 1746, I know I was there.

So, if it goes through, are you on board with England becoming the 51st US state?  :hook:

[Peabody]

I thought we were.

[YankeeJim]

I would rather lick an angry Wasp than be the 51st State, not if I can help it, the only thing the yanks have offered the world is loud mouth American tourists. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Goofy. Hot Dogs, Chewing Gum, American bloody football, Lucille Ball & Desi Arnaz, Knots Landing and Quincy.

Nice to know that we are hated as much as the Scots.
As I expected....

[Shredhead]

The Spanish have already said they will veto any application from Scotland to join the EU. So they won't be joining the EU if they vote yes anyway.

Yes, because an independent Scotland would give the Basques ideas, so the Spanish would want to squash the new state as thoroughly as they could to ensure everyone sees it is a bad idea to leave the mother country. I had not, until now, considered that part of the subject, so excellent point made, Mr B.

Spot on Rupert. The Catalans are watching this with baited breath and praying for a yes vote, even though their election will be illegal. The grass is always greener, until you take off the polarised lenses.    :008:

A point I made 15 posts before blingo.
While I'm on here,  if they vote Yes,  will what's left of Great Britain be henceforth known as Little Britain?
And what about our flag?  My vote would be for St George flag combined with St David (yellow cross over Black background). Apologies if someone else has already posted about these aspects of the debate.

[LBNo11]

...it is up to the Scots to decide their own fate, at least they have a right to make the decision on their own countries future.

I don't particularly like Salmond as I think he is doing this for his own profile not for Scotland, but then again the same can be said for all the Westminster party leaders. Nobody can categorically prove one way or another whether in the long or short term the Scots leaving will be a long-term financial disaster, for one or both parties,  only results in the fullness of time will determine who is/was right.

If the Scottish vote with their hearts and fierce pride of identity, and it all goes wrong, no doubt the English and Welsh will have to bail them out and welcome them back like the prodigal son (despite what politicians say to the contrary.

I hope whatever the result, everyone prospers based on their respective determination to succeed...

[epsomraver]

...it is up to the Scots to decide their own fate, at least they have a right to make the decision on their own countries future.

I don't particularly like Salmond as I think he is doing this for his own profile not for Scotland, but then again the same can be said for all the Westminster party leaders. Nobody can categorically prove one way or another whether in the long or short term the Scots leaving will be a long-term financial disaster, for one or both parties,  only results in the fullness of time will determine who is/was right.

If the Scottish vote with their hearts and fierce pride of identity, and it all goes wrong, no doubt the English and Welsh will have to bail them out and welcome them back like the prodigal son (despite what politicians say to the contrary.

I hope whatever the result, everyone prospers based on their respective determination to succeed...

Would be ok if that was the case Ed but Scots are not all being allowed to vote.If you are Polish and live in Scotland you can vote but if you are Scottish and now reside in any other country you cannot!

[Big Martin Jol]

I would rather lick an angry Wasp than be the 51st State, not if I can help it, the only thing the yanks have offered the world is loud mouth American tourists. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Goofy. Hot Dogs, Chewing Gum, American bloody football, Lucille Ball & Desi Arnaz, Knots Landing and Quincy.

Nice to know that we are hated as much as the Scots.
As I expected....

Don't worry about it. We English are hated by everyone - the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, the French, the Spanish, the Germans, the Indians, the Australians, the Argentines... even the Icelandic. In fact I think Belgium might be the only ones to have a good word to say about us.

You just have to accept it.

[YankeeJim]

I would rather lick an angry Wasp than be the 51st State, not if I can help it, the only thing the yanks have offered the world is loud mouth American tourists. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Goofy. Hot Dogs, Chewing Gum, American bloody football, Lucille Ball & Desi Arnaz, Knots Landing and Quincy.

Nice to know that we are hated as much as the Scots.
As I expected....

Don't worry about it. We English are hated by everyone - the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, the French, the Spanish, the Germans, the Indians, the Australians, the Argentines... even the Icelandic. In fact I think Belgium might be the only ones to have a good word to say about us.

You just have to accept it.

I haven't gotten over the White House. Not that you lot burnt it 1814 but that you haven't burnt the current one.

093.gif Sorry Mods. Someone has to pick the low hanging fruit.  :Get Coat gif:

[Forever Fulham]

I would rather lick an angry Wasp than be the 51st State, not if I can help it, the only thing the yanks have offered the world is loud mouth American tourists. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Goofy. Hot Dogs, Chewing Gum, American bloody football, Lucille Ball & Desi Arnaz, Knots Landing and Quincy.

Now you've gone too far, Wooly.  You can screw my wife, shoot my dog, hate on the Ugly American all you want.  But never, I say, never, speak ill of Lucille Ball.  I'm going to come over there and hit you with a two by four.  That woman was a comic genius. 

[Forever Fulham]

Another anti-independence article for your reading pleasure.  This one from left-leaning online Slate Magazine (Microsoft):

With one week to go before the big referendum, it seems distinctly possible that Scotland will rock Europe by voting to declare independence from Great Britain. And like so many world-historic events of the past century, this one would have lots to do with oil.


Jordan Weissmann is Slate's senior business and economics correspondent.

Think of Scotland's most famous exports, and chances are that whiskey comes to mind, followed maybe by wool sweaters, bagpipes, and indie-rock bands. But the region's most valuable product is the crude oil that sits just offshore in the North Sea. In 2013, those wells yielded about 800,000 barrels of oil per day for Great Britain. That's not a ton of black gold in the global scheme of things—North Dakota, by comparison, produces more than a million barrels per day—but it's valuable, yielding billions of pounds in tax revenue every year. If Scotland were to file for geo-political divorce, the consensus is that it would walk away with the rights to more than 90 percent of those oil resources, along with 47 percent of the U.K.'s natural gas.

Even without its oil revenues, Scotland would be quite a rich country.

Those hydrocarbons look awfully tantalizing to Scotland's nationalists. Politically, golf's ancestral homeland is more liberal than the rest of Great Britain, and its voters especially dislike the ruling Conservative Party led by Prime Minister David Cameron. (In an emotional speech, Cameron himself begged his countrymen not to vote for independence just to "give the effing Tories a kick.") In its economic case for independence, the Scottish National Party–led regional government—which is charged with handling much of Scotland's internal affairs—spends page upon page protesting growing income inequality in Great Britain, as well as the Cameron government's austerity budgets and cuts to the safety net. Post-secession, the nationalists picture Scotland following in the crude-drenched footsteps of Norway, which plows its princely oil revenues into a sovereign wealth fund designed to shore up its substantial welfare state.
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It's a lovely vision, but there's a catch: Nobody is really sure how much oil and gas is left in the North Sea, where crude production peaked all the way back in 1999, and has been declining swiftly in recent years. Tax revenue from drilling fell from £12.4 billion in 2008-09 to £6.5 billion in 2012-13. As for the future, the predictions are all over the map. The Scottish National Party has optimistic estimates based on the assumption that investing in better technology will let the industry drill more oil out of the ocean. Sir Ian Wood, a billionaire Scottish oil executive, has called those predictions a "fantasy," and said that revenues from the North Sea "will simply not be there in 25 to 30 years' time." The U.K.'s Office for Budget Responsibility thinks output will be far lower than the nationalists hope.

As the Guardian soberly put it, "oil should be a crucial factor in weighing up how Scots vote on 18 September, but the scale and longevity of the country's fossil fuel wealth remains a matter of debate."

Many have pointed out that even without its oil revenues, Scotland would be quite a rich country. "If its geographic share of UK oil and gas output is taken into account, Scotland's GDP per head is bigger than that of France," Mure Dickey and Keith Fray noted in the Financial Times. "Even excluding the North Sea's hydrocarbon bounty, per capita GDP is higher than that of Italy." The country is highly educated and has a strong finance industry along with some advanced manufacturing. Meanwhile, those Scotch exports aren't a joke.

The problem is taxes. Scotland already gets back more in spending from London than it pays to the government, meaning its revenue base would actually have to grow a bit after independence to avoid running up its deficit or cutting spending. (Letting the deficit pile up isn't really an option, since the pro-independence movement wants to stay on the British pound.) A major drop in fossil fuel profits would leave a gaping hole in the budget. Over the last few years, oil and gas receipts amounted to a full 16 percent of the region's tax base, on average. By comparison, the United States only collects about a tenth of its revenue from its entire corporate income tax. Today's Great Britain gets less than 2 percent of its taxes from oil and gas. The nationalists point out that Scotland would rely less on fossil fuels for revenue than Norway, but that's cold comfort.

If the crude doesn't keep flowing the way nationalist politicians hope, it could mean higher taxes, lower spending on social programs, and weaker growth. Worse yet, oil is ultimately just one of many of economic unknowns that could dictate Scotland's future on its own. (Paul Krugman has already railed on its plans for monetary policy.) Which is why this referendum really is a gamble. In the end, oil money really is as crucial to Scotland's independence hopes as peat smoke is to its booze—without it, much of the rationale just disappears.

[epsomraver]

That is where you are wrong, Scotlands biggest earner and export is financial services not oil, watch the guy talking sense, https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541&fref=nfthis is something you across the pond are not used to

[Berserker]

Most of my relatives work in the financial service sector in Edinburgh and they are all very worried

[Logicalman]

That is where you are wrong, Scotlands biggest earner and export is financial services not oil, watch the guy talking sense, https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541&fref=nfthis is something you across the pond are not used to

Though, if the rbs leak does pan out, would that lead to a deterioration in that financial sector base? I guess the question as to whether the Scottish fs is really an overflow from the London fs, or truly its own sector.

[epsomraver]

Tony, the RBS was run by a total idiot and had to be bailed out by the whole of the Uk to the tune of billions of pounds,Salmond cannot just walk away from that debt

[epsomraver]

 If Scotland were to file for geo-political divorce, the consensus is that it would walk away with the rights to more than 90 percent of those oil resources, along with 47 percent of the U.K.'s natural gas.

Even without its oil revenues, Scotland would be quite a rich country.

And the multi national oil companies are just going to sit back and let an Independent scotland cream it all off? I don't think so!

[blingo]

That is where you are wrong, Scotlands biggest earner and export is financial services not oil, watch the guy talking sense, https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541&fref=nfthis is something you across the pond are not used to

And Scottish WHISKY is not spelt WHISKEY. That is how the Irish spell it.

[GloucesterWhite]

Next weekend it will be Mebyon Kernow's turn - they are the Cornish nationalist party and want independence from the rest of us. Where will it end?

The Channel Islands have the best deal: self governing and out of the EU.