No Pat Roberts

[ffc73]

That is more to do with sorting the midfield out than starting Ross there in the first place. If the midfield was working then there would not be a need to move Ross mid match

[fulhamben]

That is more to do with sorting the midfield out than starting Ross there in the first place. If the midfield was working then there would not be a need to move Ross mid match

but then that goes back to would kit take him off if he wasnt doing it. and as ive already said i dont see how he is a better left or right mid than pat or george.

[dannyboi-ffc]

My theory with Roberts is a deal is already in place with a club and were scared he will get injured causing the deal to collapse. It seems very strange for someone who is branded a 'special talent' to never play. Michael Owen was scoring goals for England in a world cup at 17, I know that was then and he burned out quickly but if Roberts is as good as we think he is then that's my only theory. Magath never played him either, the others are all thrown into the deep end but pat is rapped in cotton wool?

Not only are we going to lose him anyway probably for nowhere near his true value but were also being prevented the chance to enjoy him while he's here.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's gone in january

[MJG]

Once again reading too much into things.
He is still a young slight lad with bags of skill, but its a massive step up to real mens football. Its just finding the right time and place to get him into a game, and there have not been many times to do that recently.
He is 100% not a starter at this time week in week out. But would expect him to start against Derby.
Owen had a more clear defined role...a striker..where Roberts plays deeper, so its not quite the right comparison to make.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Once again reading too much into things.
He is still a young slight lad with bags of skill, but its a massive step up to real mens football. Its just finding the right time and place to get him into a game, and there have not been many times to do that recently.
He is 100% not a starter at this time week in week out. But would expect him to start against Derby.
Owen had a more clear defined role...a striker..where Roberts plays deeper, so its not quite the right comparison to make.

Ross barkley  plays a bit deeper than Owen. Not sure how old he was when he started getting game time and he went to the world cup.

All I'm saying is Roberts is the only one who seems to be deliberately unused out of the good kids we have.  I don't think he should start either but he never comes off the bench for more than 10 mins if at all. Where as Williams does and started for Wales the other night.

Roberts is smaller and weaker than Williams I know but I liken pat to messi the way he dribbles the ball and messi isn't exactly Michelin man. What if Roberts never grows or bulks up? Some people dont. Does that mean he will never be ready?

Luke Shaw is a good example as well, he plays deeper than owen did lol. Probably a harder role than a dribbler. My theory won't change until he gets more involved, I still think Fulham are protecting their pot of gold and won't allow him to get injured.

[MJG]

Ross Barkley is 21cm's taller and bigger build for a start.
I dont believe your theory that we are protecting him. You need to look at each game and see the changes made. Like I said earlier, I could see why at 2-2 he changed his mind about bringing him on.

[fulhamben]

Once again reading too much into things.
He is still a young slight lad with bags of skill, but its a massive step up to real mens football. Its just finding the right time and place to get him into a game, and there have not been many times to do that recently.
He is 100% not a starter at this time week in week out. But would expect him to start against Derby.
Owen had a more clear defined role...a striker..where Roberts plays deeper, so its not quite the right comparison to make.

but in the last 2 games we have been in every position posible and still nothing. the scenario i suspect you are looking for is a three nil half time lead, which i feel we are a long way off, when our defensive line cant attack and our attacking line up cant defend. why are we not sending pat back to the 21s rather than giving him no football at all. cos that certainly doesnt help his progress

[MJG]

Once again reading too much into things.
He is still a young slight lad with bags of skill, but its a massive step up to real mens football. Its just finding the right time and place to get him into a game, and there have not been many times to do that recently.
He is 100% not a starter at this time week in week out. But would expect him to start against Derby.
Owen had a more clear defined role...a striker..where Roberts plays deeper, so its not quite the right comparison to make.

but in the last 2 games we have been in every position posible and still nothing. the scenario i suspect you are looking for is a three nil half time lead, which i feel we are a long way off, when our defensive line cant attack and our attacking line up cant defend. why are we not sending pat back to the 21s rather than giving him no football at all. cos that certainly doesnt help his progress

On saturday we needed to have two banks of four at the end, with the two bigger men up top. Not sure how bringing on Pat would have benefited what we were doing that game.

I have already explained about the game I was watching last night, at 1-2 down he was coming on with Dembele, that changed as did the game when Woodrow scored.

Of course we want to see him play, as I do David, but last night Parker, Dembele and Smith were on for the obvious reasons we could all see last night as the game progressed.

[fulhamben]

Once again reading too much into things.
He is still a young slight lad with bags of skill, but its a massive step up to real mens football. Its just finding the right time and place to get him into a game, and there have not been many times to do that recently.
He is 100% not a starter at this time week in week out. But would expect him to start against Derby.
Owen had a more clear defined role...a striker..where Roberts plays deeper, so its not quite the right comparison to make.

but in the last 2 games we have been in every position posible and still nothing. the scenario i suspect you are looking for is a three nil half time lead, which i feel we are a long way off, when our defensive line cant attack and our attacking line up cant defend. why are we not sending pat back to the 21s rather than giving him no football at all. cos that certainly doesnt help his progress

On saturday we needed to have two banks of four at the end, with the two bigger men up top. Not sure how bringing on Pat would have benefited what we were doing that game.

I have already explained about the game I was watching last night, at 1-2 down he was coming on with Dembele, that changed as did the game when Woodrow scored.

Of course we want to see him play, as I do David, but last night Parker, Dembele and Smith were on for the obvious reasons we could all see last night as the game progressed.

well i dint see the game, so how was it obvious that our two goal scorers needed to be removed from the front line. and against norwich, if pat had of come on, just maybe he would have got the ball up the other end of the pitch so that we didnt need to stick our bums to the wall

[dannyboi-ffc]

Ross Barkley is 21cm's taller and bigger build for a start.
I dont believe your theory that we are protecting him. You need to look at each game and see the changes made. Like I said earlier, I could see why at 2-2 he changed his mind about bringing him on.

So now were comparing heights in cms? At what point will ability matter more than height and build because like I said before some people don't grow. I remember Aaron lennon walking out next to a mascot and the mascot was taller than him!  At some stage it becomes an excuse for not playing someone, maybe not quite yet but definitely in a few months when Williams is on about 7 caps for Wales and a regular.

Like Fulham Ben said, what situation is suited to pat? We've been in every possible situation under kit but he still gets nothing. Playing  a cameo against the likes of Bolton when were 4-0 up is a waste of time. We should send him back to the u21s rather than just let him get splinters in his backside.

Its frustrating because he won't be here for long, everyone must surely realise that. So I would like to enjoy him while we can.

[MJG]

Once again reading too much into things.
He is still a young slight lad with bags of skill, but its a massive step up to real mens football. Its just finding the right time and place to get him into a game, and there have not been many times to do that recently.
He is 100% not a starter at this time week in week out. But would expect him to start against Derby.
Owen had a more clear defined role...a striker..where Roberts plays deeper, so its not quite the right comparison to make.

but in the last 2 games we have been in every position posible and still nothing. the scenario i suspect you are looking for is a three nil half time lead, which i feel we are a long way off, when our defensive line cant attack and our attacking line up cant defend. why are we not sending pat back to the 21s rather than giving him no football at all. cos that certainly doesnt help his progress

On saturday we needed to have two banks of four at the end, with the two bigger men up top. Not sure how bringing on Pat would have benefited what we were doing that game.

I have already explained about the game I was watching last night, at 1-2 down he was coming on with Dembele, that changed as did the game when Woodrow scored.

Of course we want to see him play, as I do David, but last night Parker, Dembele and Smith were on for the obvious reasons we could all see last night as the game progressed.

well i dint see the game, so how was it obvious that our two goal scorers needed to be removed from the front line. and against norwich, if pat had of come on, just maybe he would have got the ball up the other end of the pitch so that we didnt need to stick our bums to the wall

Elsfeld was poor for me last night, he was the obvious first player to come off. Keeping 442 We needed a replacement on that side. The full back needed help as they were very strong down their left. Moving McCormack to the right and replacing him up front with Demeble (who did well) kept the balance and defensive strengths we would not have had with Roberts in that position.

I dont think Kit wanted to use Parker but he felt he needed to get him on for Hyndman, which made sense give it was 2-2 at the time.
This left just one sub left to make and for me it would have been Woodrow to come off and a toss up on Roberts or Smith.
Given the way Rotherham played and type of players they have I can see reason Smith came on, leaving us with two physical strikers up top, pace of Williams and skill/experience of McCormack.

Hence Roberts never came on.  ;-)

[MJG]

Ross Barkley is 21cm's taller and bigger build for a start.
I dont believe your theory that we are protecting him. You need to look at each game and see the changes made. Like I said earlier, I could see why at 2-2 he changed his mind about bringing him on.

So now were comparing heights in cms? At what point will age matter more than height because like I said before some people don't grow. I remember Aaron lennon walking out next to a mascot and the mascot was taller than him!  At some stage it becomes an excuse for not playing someone, maybe not quite yet but definitely in a few months when Williams is on about 7 caps for Wales and a regular.

Like Fulham Ben said, what situation is suited to pat? We've been in every possible situation under kit but he still gets nothing. Playing  a cameo against the likes of Bolton when were 4-0 up is a waste of time. We should send him back to the u21s rather than just let him get splinters in his backside.

Its frustrating because he won't be here for long, everyone must surely realise that. So I would like to enjoy him while we can.

You brought Barkley into it and Im saying no comparison should be made between them due to that factor.
Roberts will get game time, and I rate him like anyone, but what do you do..play him just to keep him happy? If its not the right thing to do for the game & team then so be it. Otherwise you fall into trap of playing players for other reasons apart from the game in front of you.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Ross Barkley is 21cm's taller and bigger build for a start.
I dont believe your theory that we are protecting him. You need to look at each game and see the changes made. Like I said earlier, I could see why at 2-2 he changed his mind about bringing him on.

So now were comparing heights in cms? At what point will age matter more than height because like I said before some people don't grow. I remember Aaron lennon walking out next to a mascot and the mascot was taller than him!  At some stage it becomes an excuse for not playing someone, maybe not quite yet but definitely in a few months when Williams is on about 7 caps for Wales and a regular.

Like Fulham Ben said, what situation is suited to pat? We've been in every possible situation under kit but he still gets nothing. Playing  a cameo against the likes of Bolton when were 4-0 up is a waste of time. We should send him back to the u21s rather than just let him get splinters in his backside.

Its frustrating because he won't be here for long, everyone must surely realise that. So I would like to enjoy him while we can.

You brought Barkley into it and Im saying no comparison should be made between them due to that factor.
Roberts will get game time, and I rate him like anyone, but what do you do..play him just to keep him happy? If its not the right thing to do for the game & team then so be it. Otherwise you fall into trap of playing players for other reasons apart from the game in front of you.

Haha OK fair enough I brought up Barkley but first it was Owen had a simpler role, Barkley is 11cms taller. But both the same age playing at a much higher demanding level.

I don't want Roberts starting every week and I actually prefer Williams. I don't want pat to get what he wants either, footballs about what's right for the team and he shouldn't think he's above that. But god help us when eisfeld is playing ahead of you, that concerns me. Apparently he was awful yesterday, I'm not a fan personally so when pat is still being ignored the theories in my head start going crazy.

[Fulham1959]

"In Kit I trust" !