Hoogland and Amorebieta

[CottagersOnTour]

Amore does not have the pace for LB for me, it's as simple as that, he's a good crosser of the ball but that's about it.

CB is his best position, but personally I would have Bod/Burn ahead of him anyway. He is a very good back-up, but not a starter IMO, he has a couple of errors in him per game. 

At RB, I do think Hoog is our best player when not injured, despite some defensive frailties (quite similar to Staf in a way) he is still a better RB than the majority in the championship.

From his performance on Saturday Grimmer is a very good back-up, although I thought he was going to get a second yellow at points, he did well to stay on the field and adjusted his tackling accordingly. 

[snarks]

I'd like to see more of Grimmer at RB, he was left horribly exposed in the first half against Brighton, with no real cover in front of him. He also adjusted as the game went on, which was a good thing. I do think he will need a couple of games to adjust to the change in pace from shrewsbury to the championship.

Amore concerns me at left back because of his lack of pace. Staf is far quicker and it suits Ross more with no LHM to get in his way, as he often drops back and out wide to get crosses in. If Amore plays at LB Staf is pushed into midfield, his crossing isn't great (understatement) and it gives Ross less room.

[PaulJ123]

Grimmer played well against Brighton so I don't think we should drop him, Hooglands very good going forward but he does seem to think hes a striker at times.

Again, Staf played well so shouldnt be dropped. Before that I'd have preferred Amore to play as he does have a great cross on him (surprisingly so), but Staf is growing in each game I think so we should stick by him

[love4ffc]

Amore's pace doesn't concern me.  It's his late and/or bad tackles that get me.  With that said still think he is our best LB and really like when Staf is in front of him.  For me that is a great combination and something that is lacking on the right side.

[Barrett487]

I'd like to see Grimmer retained at RB, as well as Staf at LB. Watford are pacey up front, so i would also question Burn's speed. If Hutchinson is quicker, then he may have my shout, especially as he appeared to do well at Brighton.

Amore worries me.... his challenges can be rash and i think Staf tracks back better (and quicker). Going forward the only thing Amore has over Staf is his threat in the box at set-pieces.

[@jolslover]

If both fully fit, both go back in. Grimmer was recalled due to major weakness in that position, and Hoogland is a better player than Grimmer. Amorebieta is by far our best full back, and should replace Staf, if, as said, fully fit. Regards to Burn, I don't see why Hutch should be dropped, after a very good performance at Brighton, one I have not seen Burn beat personally. Basically, the only certs for the defence on Friday are Betts and Bodurov.

If all fit for Watford, I'd like to see this:


Hoogland - Bodurov - Hutchinson - Amorebieta

+1 agree

[Chutney]

Hutchinson isn't very good

[YoungsBitter]

Its actually quite a challenge for Kit, a "high class problem" as they say in China.
Hoogland tho is not fully participating in training according to Kit's last press conference, he is still working on fitness, hence Grimmer's recall.
Kit generally does not like to mix it up so Burn will come back in and Hutchinson will go to the bench. I think he will give Grimmer a second start, even tho I agree with others that he was less than 100% successful against Brighton, partly probably because of nerves, which will be less so this time, especially as he has also had a week in training with the team which he did not have last week.
Amorebieta has actually impressed me more this season than last couple, seems to have learnt to stop jumping in and his crosses have been very impressive. I agree with others that I would prefer him to Stafylidis and would like to see Staf in left mid over George Williams who I think is still a work in progress. So for me Grimmer, Bodurov, Burn and Amore back 4, Diamond 4 of Parker, LVC, Staf and Ruiz at point ( altho if he is injured I think Kit will be tempted to play Fofana). Hugo and Mac up front.
It reminded me how good great it is to have some depth in our choices and not be waiting for another round of Felix Bingo - Mark Fortheringham anyone? Chihi?

[ChesterTheTabby]

Its actually quite a challenge for Kit, a "high class problem" as they say in China.
Hoogland tho is not fully participating in training according to Kit's last press conference, he is still working on fitness, hence Grimmer's recall.
Kit generally does not like to mix it up so Burn will come back in and Hutchinson will go to the bench. I think he will give Grimmer a second start, even tho I agree with others that he was less than 100% successful against Brighton, partly probably because of nerves, which will be less so this time, especially as he has also had a week in training with the team which he did not have last week.
Amorebieta has actually impressed me more this season than last couple, seems to have learnt to stop jumping in and his crosses have been very impressive. I agree with others that I would prefer him to Stafylidis and would like to see Staf in left mid over George Williams who I think is still a work in progress. So for me Grimmer, Bodurov, Burn and Amore back 4, Diamond 4 of Parker, LVC, Staf and Ruiz at point ( altho if he is injured I think Kit will be tempted to play Fofana). Hugo and Mac up front.
It reminded me how good great it is to have some depth in our choices and not be waiting for another round of Felix Bingo - Mark Fortheringham anyone? Chihi?

I think all of your predictions for the starting line up will come true (if Amore is injury free). Good post.

[Mokes]

If both fully fit, both go back in. Grimmer was recalled due to major weakness in that position, and Hoogland is a better player than Grimmer. Amorebieta is by far our best full back, and should replace Staf, if, as said, fully fit. Regards to Burn, I don't see why Hutch should be dropped, after a very good performance at Brighton, one I have not seen Burn beat personally. Basically, the only certs for the defence on Friday are Betts and Bodurov.

If all fit for Watford, I'd like to see this:

Hoogland - Bodurov - Hutchinson - Amorebieta

090.gif

Care to elaborate and actually contribute to the discussion as to what or who you don't like in this back four? 

Personally I would like to see Grimmer and Hoogland compete for the position.  I like Burn in the middle but would like another CB with serious experience to come in to be his partner.   Amorebieta is doing a nice job for us currently and deserves to go back in right away.  I also like Staf going back to the outside as he is great in the attack and gets back to help Amorebieta. 

Alright. Amorebieta is one of the worst players we have had for the last 5 years. He is a total liability and likely to give away a penalty every time he is defending in the box. Last season people had so much hatred for for our defenders, some were even calling Hangeland a joke and making out he was the stem of all our problems, totally forgetting that for the first half of the season we had the most hilariously poor centre partnership of Senderos and Amore that the premier league has ever seen. Hangeland was written off, Senderos was written off as was JA Riise and Sacha. However for some unfathomable reason as far as Amore is concerned all was forgotten after one half decent game he had where he didn't give away a penalty or wasn't the direct cause of a goal conceded. He still offers absolutely nothing but the odd half decent cross into the box. He has absolutely no timing whatsoever and hacks at players like he is wearing the red and white stripes of stoke city. He tries to get too far forward and does not have the pace to get back. The last game he played in he did this and we conceded. Burn took the blame for it but it was Amore that stitched him up.

He is one of the biggest blackspots from last season and having him in the team does absolutely nothing to better the team. If Staffy can't cut it, than it should be Kavanagh until we can get a good option in January.

I completely agree with Hoogland & Budrov but think Burn deserves his spot over Hutch. I do think Grimmer did really well though and deserves to be first in line should Hoogland get injured or play DM

[Mokes]

If both fully fit, both go back in. Grimmer was recalled due to major weakness in that position, and Hoogland is a better player than Grimmer. Amorebieta is by far our best full back, and should replace Staf, if, as said, fully fit. Regards to Burn, I don't see why Hutch should be dropped, after a very good performance at Brighton, one I have not seen Burn beat personally. Basically, the only certs for the defence on Friday are Betts and Bodurov.

If all fit for Watford, I'd like to see this:

Hoogland - Bodurov - Hutchinson - Amorebieta

090.gif

Aren't you a real funny guy, on par with Darren Bent levels of funniness.

..... What?

[J.Perkins]

If both fully fit, both go back in. Grimmer was recalled due to major weakness in that position, and Hoogland is a better player than Grimmer. Amorebieta is by far our best full back, and should replace Staf, if, as said, fully fit. Regards to Burn, I don't see why Hutch should be dropped, after a very good performance at Brighton, one I have not seen Burn beat personally. Basically, the only certs for the defence on Friday are Betts and Bodurov.

If all fit for Watford, I'd like to see this:

Hoogland - Bodurov - Hutchinson - Amorebieta

090.gif

Care to elaborate and actually contribute to the discussion as to what or who you don't like in this back four? 

Personally I would like to see Grimmer and Hoogland compete for the position.  I like Burn in the middle but would like another CB with serious experience to come in to be his partner.   Amorebieta is doing a nice job for us currently and deserves to go back in right away.  I also like Staf going back to the outside as he is great in the attack and gets back to help Amorebieta. 

Alright. Amorebieta is one of the worst players we have had for the last 5 years. He is a total liability and likely to give away a penalty every time he is defending in the box. Last season people had so much hatred for for our defenders, some were even calling Hangeland a joke and making out he was the stem of all our problems, totally forgetting that for the first half of the season we had the most hilariously poor centre partnership of Senderos and Amore that the premier league has ever seen. Hangeland was written off, Senderos was written off as was JA Riise and Sacha. However for some unfathomable reason as far as Amore is concerned all was forgotten after one half decent game he had where he didn't give away a penalty or wasn't the direct cause of a goal conceded. He still offers absolutely nothing but the odd half decent cross into the box. He has absolutely no timing whatsoever and hacks at players like he is wearing the red and white stripes of stoke city. He tries to get too far forward and does not have the pace to get back. The last game he played in he did this and we conceded. Burn took the blame for it but it was Amore that stitched him up.

He is one of the biggest blackspots from last season and having him in the team does absolutely nothing to better the team. If Staffy can't cut it, than it should be Kavanagh until we can get a good option in January.

I completely agree with Hoogland & Budrov but think Burn deserves his spot over Hutch. I do think Grimmer did really well though and deserves to be first in line should Hoogland get injured or play DM

You think I'm an idiot...

[hovewhite]

Interesting thread,at brighton  hutch played well and I was suprised because I didn't rate him upto the brighton game.
On amore and hoogland I think there the best players in there position,just my opinion mind.

[Mokes]

If both fully fit, both go back in. Grimmer was recalled due to major weakness in that position, and Hoogland is a better player than Grimmer. Amorebieta is by far our best full back, and should replace Staf, if, as said, fully fit. Regards to Burn, I don't see why Hutch should be dropped, after a very good performance at Brighton, one I have not seen Burn beat personally. Basically, the only certs for the defence on Friday are Betts and Bodurov.

If all fit for Watford, I'd like to see this:

Hoogland - Bodurov - Hutchinson - Amorebieta

090.gif

Care to elaborate and actually contribute to the discussion as to what or who you don't like in this back four? 

Personally I would like to see Grimmer and Hoogland compete for the position.  I like Burn in the middle but would like another CB with serious experience to come in to be his partner.   Amorebieta is doing a nice job for us currently and deserves to go back in right away.  I also like Staf going back to the outside as he is great in the attack and gets back to help Amorebieta. 

Alright. Amorebieta is one of the worst players we have had for the last 5 years. He is a total liability and likely to give away a penalty every time he is defending in the box. Last season people had so much hatred for for our defenders, some were even calling Hangeland a joke and making out he was the stem of all our problems, totally forgetting that for the first half of the season we had the most hilariously poor centre partnership of Senderos and Amore that the premier league has ever seen. Hangeland was written off, Senderos was written off as was JA Riise and Sacha. However for some unfathomable reason as far as Amore is concerned all was forgotten after one half decent game he had where he didn't give away a penalty or wasn't the direct cause of a goal conceded. He still offers absolutely nothing but the odd half decent cross into the box. He has absolutely no timing whatsoever and hacks at players like he is wearing the red and white stripes of stoke city. He tries to get too far forward and does not have the pace to get back. The last game he played in he did this and we conceded. Burn took the blame for it but it was Amore that stitched him up.

He is one of the biggest blackspots from last season and having him in the team does absolutely nothing to better the team. If Staffy can't cut it, than it should be Kavanagh until we can get a good option in January.

I completely agree with Hoogland & Budrov but think Burn deserves his spot over Hutch. I do think Grimmer did really well though and deserves to be first in line should Hoogland get injured or play DM

You think I'm an idiot...

What? I don't know you all.

I don't have any opinion about you as a person either way.

I obviously disagree with you about the abilities of Amore though.

[Black, White and Fred]

Does anyone think we have any chance of retaining Staf if we don't make the play offs and subsequently don't get promoted this season? Bit off topic I know, also I know Lovebite had quite a long contract when he first signed any chance he might be looking for a move?

[ChesterTheTabby]

Does anyone think we have any chance of retaining Staf if we don't make the play offs and subsequently don't get promoted this season? Bit off topic I know, also I know Lovebite had quite a long contract when he first signed any chance he might be looking for a move?

Highly, highly doubtful. However, we can promise him a starting position - and with Kit at the helm and a very promising team for the new campaign after experiencing it all first hand, there is a chance he may want to stay. The other question would be if his mother team would part with him. He is only 20 years old, a permanent move to a descent Championship outfit who the following season could definitely make the playoffs if not automatic promotion could be very enticing for a young Greek player with loads of potential.

[Deanothefulhamfan]

I am one of these fickle fans that Alfie mentions earlier in this thread..... Last season Amorebieta was dreadful,  he never seem ed to adapt to the premier league, and looked out of his depth quite frankly. This season he is a different player, and deserves some praise for the way he has played for us this season.

I think he is a more solid option at left back, gives us some strength that staf doesn't, and as I said previously is probably our best footballer in defence in terms of passing abillity. We allow less crosses into the box when he is in the side, and he is pretty good in the air to help us from set plays.

I quite liked Staf playing in front of him as it really reminds me of the Hodgson days,  having two quick and industrious wingers to help out with the defence. They also seem to work together. Amore has different attributes to Staf, but given his experience and with how has played this season I think he is he better option of the two. Although I do still think he is a little bit clumsy as others pointed out .

So yes I admit it I am fickle, as I was bashing Amorebieta last season, but like Rodallega he seems to have found his level in the championship, and long may it continue.

[J.Perkins]

I am one of these fickle fans that Alfie mentions earlier in this thread..... Last season Amorebieta was dreadful,  he never seem ed to adapt to the premier league, and looked out of his depth quite frankly. This season he is a different player, and deserves some praise for the way he has played for us this season.

I think he is a more solid option at left back, gives us some strength that staf doesn't, and as I said previously is probably our best footballer in defence in terms of passing abillity. We allow less crosses into the box when he is in the side, and he is pretty good in the air to help us from set plays.

I quite liked Staf playing in front of him as it really reminds me of the Hodgson days,  having two quick and industrious wingers to help out with the defence. They also seem to work together. Amore has different attributes to Staf, but given his experience and with how has played this season I think he is he better option of the two. Although I do still think he is a little bit clumsy as others pointed out .

So yes I admit it I am fickle, as I was bashing Amorebieta last season, but like Rodallega he seems to have found his level in the championship, and long may it continue.

This guy has got it spot on

[alfie]

I am one of these fickle fans that Alfie mentions earlier in this thread..... Last season Amorebieta was dreadful,  he never seem ed to adapt to the premier league, and looked out of his depth quite frankly. This season he is a different player, and deserves some praise for the way he has played for us this season.

I think he is a more solid option at left back, gives us some strength that staf doesn't, and as I said previously is probably our best footballer in defence in terms of passing abillity. We allow less crosses into the box when he is in the side, and he is pretty good in the air to help us from set plays.

I quite liked Staf playing in front of him as it really reminds me of the Hodgson days,  having two quick and industrious wingers to help out with the defence. They also seem to work together. Amore has different attributes to Staf, but given his experience and with how has played this season I think he is he better option of the two. Although I do still think he is a little bit clumsy as others pointed out .

So yes I admit it I am fickle, as I was bashing Amorebieta last season, but like Rodallega he seems to have found his level in the championship, and long may it continue.

0001.jpeg
I do like this man's view on Footbally things.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I am one of these fickle fans that Alfie mentions earlier in this thread..... Last season Amorebieta was dreadful,  he never seem ed to adapt to the premier league, and looked out of his depth quite frankly. This season he is a different player, and deserves some praise for the way he has played for us this season.

I think he is a more solid option at left back, gives us some strength that staf doesn't, and as I said previously is probably our best footballer in defence in terms of passing abillity. We allow less crosses into the box when he is in the side, and he is pretty good in the air to help us from set plays.

I quite liked Staf playing in front of him as it really reminds me of the Hodgson days,  having two quick and industrious wingers to help out with the defence. They also seem to work together. Amore has different attributes to Staf, but given his experience and with how has played this season I think he is he better option of the two. Although I do still think he is a little bit clumsy as others pointed out .

So yes I admit it I am fickle, as I was bashing Amorebieta last season, but like Rodallega he seems to have found his level in the championship, and long may it continue.

Agreed deano! Some people make their mind up on a player and never see the good in them even when they turn a corner. Amore is far from perfect but he has improved so much on last year and looks committed. I think playing them both on the left is what Kit will do anyway and I won't have an issue with that.  Georgie boy and Fofana will be great impact subs with their pace and energy.

Like Hodgson keep it tight and then go for the kill.

I also think amore is vital to set pieces in both boxes. Defensively we had ruiz hyndman lvc parker Grimmer stafylidis and mcormack against Brighton.

Burn/hutch, bod is not ideal for winning headers on their own.Even Hugo isn't great in the air and set pieces are very important in this league. Brighton had about 6 corners in a row straight from kickoff the other day, ok they never scored but we struggled to clear it properly hence why they had so many in a row. We put ourselves under unnecessary pressure because we have a big height disadvantage.  

Going back to people having a adamant opinion on players, parker is another. I slated him second half of last year and rightly so because he was awful but some refuse to allow a player to win them over. Parker's done that for me, my player of the year so far and I think he's our most important player.

The post about amore being one of our worst is very harsh, he's decent at both lb and cb,  some could only play in one position and were still terrible. I could name 10 cb and lb that were worse.

Anyone remember Chris baird? Everyone can turn a corner, i'd even give credit to zverotic if I could see improvement. Everyone deserves the opportunity to improve. (Really hope zverotic doesn't play tomorrow though lol! What a hypocrite I am)