Does an academy pay for itself?

[Andy S]

Does an academy pay for itself? and has ours over the years. OK we have a good crop now but that has not always been the case. Southampton's Academy has produced an amazing amount of top class players but that is not always the case. OK yes it produces players but do they have a big sell on value.

[RPhillips]

In a word: No (on both questions).

[cmg]

The question did state 'an' academy.

I have no idea how much Southampton's academy costs, or even how you would separate this figure from the overall costs of running the club. But - since we paid Southampton £3m for academy product Chris Baird they have netted around £98m from sales of players who have come through their academy. If this doesn't represent a profit (and it's quite a conservative assessment) then there isn't much hope for any of us.

[grandad]

Of course it does. How much do you think we would have had to pay for players bought in to take the place of home grown kids.
Apart from the big money clubs this is the way it is going to be for the majority of clubs.

[filham]

Until the present crop of youngsters showed their faces we had seen nothing worthy of regular first team duty from our academy , the last home grown talent we enjoyed was S Davies and he was pre academy.

Up until now tour academy must have been a financial disaster.

We at last have a good looking group of youngsters some of whom may establish themselves as championship or even premiership material. It is essential that we develop and make the best of these players, they are precious and must not be maltreated or wasted.

I am confident that Kit will look after the young players and there lies a further reason why Kit is at present the best man to be in control of the team.

[Lighthouse]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

[LBNo11]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

...there is an element of pure chance, however, with the correct and quality scouting system in the (U13' - 11' 9 etc.,) in place and quality coaching, the chances are reduced and the odds of a quality player coming through are increased.

SouthfieldWhite, is a dedicated coach at the junior levels who spots talented players and follows them for ability and consistency, he knows the importance of good scouts for a football club...

[filham]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

OK , lets, for the sake of this matter, agree that pure chance has given us Roberts surely coaching and careful management will now play a big part on how great a player he becomes.

[PaulJ123]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

OK , lets, for the sake of this matter, agree that pure chance has given us Roberts surely coaching and careful management will now play a big part on how great a player he becomes.

There is still luck involved though. Say Christensen, Kacaniklic, Mccormack were all out injured, Roberts would be put into our first team for a sustained period which would help his development at even this young age. As it is, due to tactics/selection he's sat on the bench all year, again this could change if we had another manager. There are elements of chance in a players development to go along with just the coaching aspect

[grimmynz]

It may or may not pay for itself in terms of transfer money received for academy "graduates", but there is also the amount saved in transfer fees. I'd be interested to know what the average Championship club pays for new players. What would we have had to pay for Betts, LVC, Kavanagh, Burn, Grimmer etc etc on the transfer market?

[RPhillips]

The question did state 'an' academy.

I have no idea how much Southampton's academy costs, or even how you would separate this figure from the overall costs of running the club. But - since we paid Southampton £3m for academy product Chris Baird they have netted around £98m from sales of players who have come through their academy. If this doesn't represent a profit (and it's quite a conservative assessment) then there isn't much hope for any of us.

I wouldn't use Southampton as a reference point for gauging the economic value of an academy.

[cmg]

The question did state 'an' academy.

I have no idea how much Southampton's academy costs, or even how you would separate this figure from the overall costs of running the club. But - since we paid Southampton £3m for academy product Chris Baird they have netted around £98m from sales of players who have come through their academy. If this doesn't represent a profit (and it's quite a conservative assessment) then there isn't much hope for any of us.

I wouldn't use Southampton as a reference point for gauging the economic value of an academy.

...except, of course, for Southampton's!

[SouthfieldWhite]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

...there is an element of pure chance, however, with the correct and quality scouting system in the (U13' - 11' 9 etc.,) in place and quality coaching, the chances are reduced and the odds of a quality player coming through are increased.

SouthfieldWhite, is a dedicated coach at the junior levels who spots talented players and follows them for ability and consistency, he knows the importance of good scouts for a football club...

Cheers LB

It's very important for an Academy to have a good scouting net work.
London and the Home Counties has become a hotbed for talent  and we are not just competing against local club like Chelsea and Brentford, but clubs all over the country.

Norwich for example have their own development centre in Mitcham.

You get good scouts and bad scouts and the main thing a scout needs to have are contacts and good relationship with grass roots clubs.

Some grassroots clubs don't like scouts taking their best players.
Kids are going into academy younger and younger although no kid can be signed until they become an u9..

Since the introduction of the EPPP ( Elite Player Performance Plan) it's become even bigger business and it was a major achievement when the club got its Academy category 1 status which ment it's alot harder for other clubs to take our talented players.

An u10 for example can still be sold for many thousands between clubs but fulham have some of the top, if not the top people running our academy.

Hopefully our academy will carry on producing good players, and not only pay for itself, but also make money for the club.

The club needs to be producing to help pay my sky high wages ;-)

[BedsFFC]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

...there is an element of pure chance, however, with the correct and quality scouting system in the (U13' - 11' 9 etc.,) in place and quality coaching, the chances are reduced and the odds of a quality player coming through are increased.

SouthfieldWhite, is a dedicated coach at the junior levels who spots talented players and follows them for ability and consistency, he knows the importance of good scouts for a football club...

Cheers LB

It's very important for an Academy to have a good scouting net work.
London and the Home Counties has become a hotbed for talent  and we are not just competing against local club like Chelsea and Brentford, but clubs all over the country.

Norwich for example have their own development centre in Mitcham.

You get good scouts and bad scouts and the main thing a scout needs to have are contacts and good relationship with grass roots clubs.

Some grassroots clubs don't like scouts taking their best players.
Kids are going into academy younger and younger although no kid can be signed until they become an u9..

Since the introduction of the EPPP ( Elite Player Performance Plan) it's become even bigger business and it was a major achievement when the club got its Academy category 1 status which ment it's alot harder for other clubs to take our talented players.

An u10 for example can still be sold for many thousands between clubs but fulham have some of the top, if not the top people running our academy.

Hopefully our academy will carry on producing good players, and not only pay for itself, but also make money for the club.

The club needs to be producing to help pay my sky high wages ;-)

Hi Mate, hope you are well. Quick question, as you know I am a chairman of a grassroots club in my neck of the woods.

Our players are touted by Luton and MK Dons. This Pre-Academy thing...is it just a rip off by pro clubs? £1000 per season per player at Luton plus costs

[SouthfieldWhite]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

...there is an element of pure chance, however, with the correct and quality scouting system in the (U13' - 11' 9 etc.,) in place and quality coaching, the chances are reduced and the odds of a quality player coming through are increased.

SouthfieldWhite, is a dedicated coach at the junior levels who spots talented players and follows them for ability and consistency, he knows the importance of good scouts for a football club...

Cheers LB

It's very important for an Academy to have a good scouting net work.
London and the Home Counties has become a hotbed for talent  and we are not just competing against local club like Chelsea and Brentford, but clubs all over the country.

Norwich for example have their own development centre in Mitcham.

You get good scouts and bad scouts and the main thing a scout needs to have are contacts and good relationship with grass roots clubs.

Some grassroots clubs don't like scouts taking their best players.
Kids are going into academy younger and younger although no kid can be signed until they become an u9..

Since the introduction of the EPPP ( Elite Player Performance Plan) it's become even bigger business and it was a major achievement when the club got its Academy category 1 status which ment it's alot harder for other clubs to take our talented players.

An u10 for example can still be sold for many thousands between clubs but fulham have some of the top, if not the top people running our academy.

Hopefully our academy will carry on producing good players, and not only pay for itself, but also make money for the club.

The club needs to be producing to help pay my sky high wages ;-)

Hi Mate, hope you are well. Quick question, as you know I am a chairman of a grassroots club in my neck of the woods.

Our players are touted by Luton and MK Dons. This Pre-Academy thing...is it just a rip off by pro clubs? £1000 per season per player at Luton plus costs

Hi mate, I'm a bit confused.

Pre academy is for u7 and u8s

Are you saying it cost Luton and ml Dons a grand per player or that is what the players parents have to pay to be in their academy?


If you are at any pro academy you shouldn't have to pay anything

[leonffc]

Not when you consider the players who make the grade. Southampton have had an insane amount of good quality. We have done very well of late. But on the whole there is no guarantee a kid will make it. So an academy like everything in football is down to pure chance.

...there is an element of pure chance, however, with the correct and quality scouting system in the (U13' - 11' 9 etc.,) in place and quality coaching, the chances are reduced and the odds of a quality player coming through are increased.

SouthfieldWhite, is a dedicated coach at the junior levels who spots talented players and follows them for ability and consistency, he knows the importance of good scouts for a football club...

Cheers LB

It's very important for an Academy to have a good scouting net work.
London and the Home Counties has become a hotbed for talent  and we are not just competing against local club like Chelsea and Brentford, but clubs all over the country.

Norwich for example have their own development centre in Mitcham.

You get good scouts and bad scouts and the main thing a scout needs to have are contacts and good relationship with grass roots clubs.

Some grassroots clubs don't like scouts taking their best players.
Kids are going into academy younger and younger although no kid can be signed until they become an u9..

Since the introduction of the EPPP ( Elite Player Performance Plan) it's become even bigger business and it was a major achievement when the club got its Academy category 1 status which ment it's alot harder for other clubs to take our talented players.

An u10 for example can still be sold for many thousands between clubs but fulham have some of the top, if not the top people running our academy.

Hopefully our academy will carry on producing good players, and not only pay for itself, but also make money for the club.

The club needs to be producing to help pay my sky high wages ;-)

Hi Mate, hope you are well. Quick question, as you know I am a chairman of a grassroots club in my neck of the woods.

Our players are touted by Luton and MK Dons. This Pre-Academy thing...is it just a rip off by pro clubs? £1000 per season per player at Luton plus costs

Hi mate, I'm a bit confused.

Pre academy is for u7 and u8s

Are you saying it cost Luton and ml Dons a grand per player or that is what the players parents have to pay to be in their academy?


If you are at any pro academy you shouldn't have to pay anything

I think Beds is on about shadow academy teams where kids / parents are lead to believe their kid is on the cusp of being signed so they keep them in what are basically development centres.
They pay fees for kit and training but I also believe that money goes to an end of season tour. Stevenage go to Italy every year, I can't remember where Luton are going but it is abroad. Cambridge are going to the Dana cup in Denmark which has teams from all over the world competing.
There is the belief amongst many that these 'pre academies' help fund the real academy teams.

[BedsFFC]

Hi Mate, hope you are well. Quick question, as you know I am a chairman of a grassroots club in my neck of the woods.

Our players are touted by Luton and MK Dons. This Pre-Academy thing...is it just a rip off by pro clubs? £1000 per season per player at Luton plus costs
[/quote]

Hi mate, I'm a bit confused.

Pre academy is for u7 and u8s

Are you saying it cost Luton and ml Dons a grand per player or that is what the players parents have to pay to be in their academy?


If you are at any pro academy you shouldn't have to pay anything
[/quote]

I think Beds is on about shadow academy teams where kids / parents are lead to believe their kid is on the cusp of being signed so they keep them in what are basically development centres.
They pay fees for kit and training but I also believe that money goes to an end of season tour. Stevenage go to Italy every year, I can't remember where Luton are going but it is abroad. Cambridge are going to the Dana cup in Denmark which has teams from all over the world competing.
There is the belief amongst many that these 'pre academies' help fund the real academy teams.
[/quote]
It's exactly what I mean. It is called called pre-academy at Luton & MK Dons and runs from Under 7's to 16's. They pay about £1000 per annum and pay for kit and travel. As long as the coaching at your grass roots club is good, I think you are better saving your money. But, in answer to the OP, I'm sure this covers a lot of costs. I imagine FFC do this as well....actually, maybe they don't.

[colcliff]

on paper academy's do not pay for themselves
but there is normally plenty of sponsorship that help out
the other thing is if you get a good crop of youngsters it means that you don't have to bring in lots of expensive transfers  and normally the wages for the young players are a lot less

[Nick Bateman]

Does an academy pay for itself? and has ours over the years. OK we have a good crop now but that has not always been the case. Southampton's Academy has produced an amazing amount of top class players but that is not always the case. OK yes it produces players but do they have a big sell on value.

Yes it does, but overrating our academy has cost Fulham dearly.  Our 'kids' are not that special.

[SouthfieldWhite]

Clubs must have different names for 'development centres' then

I've always said if you've got to pay, forget it, or just treat it as extra training.

At Fulham , pre academy is u7 and u8s

We also have development centres where you don't pay.

There's also the community departments training where you do pay and although not part of the academy, we do work closely with them and they will recommend any boys who they think are good.


My boy went for a trial at Aldershot a few years ago, got into their academy  where you don't have to pay but said we had to start off in their development squad where it was £600 and you had to go buy your own kit from a designated shot.
I saw through it as a rip off and he didn't go.


Bateman, how many kids have you seen in our academy?

We have a lot of very talented kids at all ages, that dosnt mean by the time they are21/22 that they will be world beaters though

The amount that have come through theAcademy into the first team these last couple of years is second to none