The Kit stay thread

[BedsFFC]

Looking at TFI at the continual kit out threads and now depressingly on here, I just wanted to start an alternative thread for the less vocal group that have another view.

I'm quite busy, so I will be quick. My reasons are the following:

Fans are quite romantic and getting "one of our own" is a rare pleasure.

Kit is a Fulham fan and Fulham legend. He loves the club. As such, in my mind, he deserves a real crack. If he can turn this club around, our pleasure will be increased knowing the man at the top feels the way we do.

People develop into roles

I've seen people grow into jobs and roles. I just don't like this hire and fire culture. He's made mistakes. The key is how he learns. I'd much rather be a club that showed faith in the medium term. We are a club that needs rebuilding from the bottom up.

Years of decline

I watched games last season and thought this is what you get from years of awful management, bad decisions and lack of investment. I didn't think, this is all Kit's fault. Christ, yes he made mistakes. To be fair to the guy, he's been pretty candid about the style etc since the season finished.

Lets see his team

I will hold judgement till the end of next season. I want to see him given the time and investment to build his team and develop the youngsters. His teams did play good football at youth level. Again, I'm in a minority (possibly) but I'm excited about a fresh squad.

Alternatives

Big Sam, Mick McCarthy etc. Just fill me with dread. We need someone to build the whole club. 6 teams at the top of the championship. 5 young managers.

Now, I could be wrong but I get a feeling I won't be.

This quick to critisize way with many of our fans just annoys me, the Daily Mail mentality of writing "Annoyed from Purley" letters to anyone that will listen is quite embarrassing.

I know that most people that post will wax lyrical about how deluded I am. I don't feel deluded. I actually feel quite refreshed that the last 3 years can be put to bed. In many ways, I now see this as Khans real start. His manager, his players & his club. Well, actually, no. Our club.

[Black, White and Fred]

I am kind of with you Beds.
Kit has always been open about why he has done certain things, admits he is still learning and he has also had to work with someone else's squad.
We have all seen that the U21s were very successful under him, there is no reason why (this from a footballing point of view) he can't convert this to the first team being successful (and yes he did play with wingers)
I don't think now is really the time to judge, at the end of next season if no dramatic improvement is seen then I will join the Kit out camp.
As for his ability to attract the right players, well is that not the exact reason we hired Mr Rigg?

[Southcoastffc]

 :plus one: I'm firmly in the "Let's see his team" camp.  049:gif

[Wimbledon_White]

Well said that man.

I agree entirely.

[Lighthouse]

Part of the problem we have had in the last few years has been the amount of change in management. It seems we have become a bit of a drug addict trying to chase the dragon of success with a quick fix. I really hope we can have stability and considering Symons kept going with a squad of some madman's making. It will be interesting to see if stability can make the difference in actively seeking new players.


As Bedsffc has said. The alternative names leave me in dread. Another new manager is surely a bigger gamble.

[God The Mechanic]

Part of the problem we have had in the last few years has been the amount of change in management.

Which of our last three managers would you have kept for longer than the club did?  Jol should've gone sooner, Rene's biggest plus was getting one point from the Man Utd and Liverpool games playing more defensive players than Kit has all season - that is hardly a tactic that could or should be replicated against other teams - and he presided over some of our absolute worst performances in that season.  No more needs to be said about Magath than already has been.

None of the outgoing managers have really done anything to support being given more time.  The number of managerial changes hasn't been the problem, it has been the quality/impact of those coming in that has been.

Personally, I don't think Kit will be good enough for what we should be aiming for next season - I do not know either way, but his performance as first team manager has definitely not been great.  That being said, he may have been intentionally hamstrung (willingly or not) by decisions above him, and given a proper pre-season and transfer window could revert to how our U21s did under him.  As for the alternatives, none are guaranteed to be a success but neither is Kit - and the likes of Warburton, McCarthy and Allardyce have done more to support their appointment than Kit has.  That being said, I wouldn't want the latter two to be anywhere near the club and Warburton has marginally more (yet significantly more successful) experience than Kit does.

If we make a change this summer it has to be the right one for the right reasons.  Khan needed the fans on his side in September so Kit was a worthy appointment (especially with his caretaker performance), but this decision needs to be a footballing one not an emotional one.

[Lighthouse]

Part of the problem we have had in the last few years has been the amount of change in management.

Which of our last three managers would you have kept for longer than the club did?  Jol should've gone sooner, Rene's biggest plus was getting one point from the Man Utd and Liverpool games playing more defensive players than Kit has all season - that is hardly a tactic that could or should be replicated against other teams - and he presided over some of our absolute worst performances in that season.  No more needs to be said about Magath than already has been.

None of the outgoing managers have really done anything to support being given more time.  The number of managerial changes hasn't been the problem, it has been the quality/impact of those coming in that has been.

Personally, I don't think Kit will be good enough for what we should be aiming for next season - I do not know either way, but his performance as first team manager has definitely not been great.  That being said, he may have been intentionally (willingly or not) by decisions above him, and given a proper pre-season and transfer window could revert to how our U21s did under him.  As for the alternatives, none are guaranteed to be a success but neither is Kit - and the likes of Warburton, McCarthy and Allardyce have done more to support their appointment than Kit has.  That being said, I wouldn't want the latter two to be anywhere near the club and Warburton has marginally more (yet significantly more successful) experience than Kit does.

If we make a change this summer it has to be the right one for the right reasons.  Khan needed the fans on his side in September so Kit was a worthy appointment (especially with his caretaker performance), but this decision needs to be a footballing one not an emotional one.

But without going over old ground. If no manager is guaranteed success than why not stick to a manager that knows what needs improving. As for the managers that have recently left. Rene was never given enough time and if anything proved he could adapt to the problems we faced by his team selection against the top sides. Certainly the changes have done us no favours and have done us great harm. We can afford another Kit but not another Felix.

[hovewhite]

I am happy to see what happens with kits signings this summer and give him a chance,only because we seem never pick the right man for the job ,so replacing kit is a real gamble.

[God The Mechanic]

But without going over old ground. If no manager is guaranteed success than why not stick to a manager that knows what needs improving. As for the managers that have recently left. Rene was never given enough time and if anything proved he could adapt to the problems we faced by his team selection against the top sides. Certainly the changes have done us no favours and have done us great harm. We can afford another Kit but not another Felix.

Kit may, and I'd wager he probably does, know what needs improving but has he shown anything to suggest that he is the one capable of improving it?  Without being overly negative, as this started as a pro-Kit post and there are plenty of anti-Kit ones, he has shown minimal indication that he's capable of turning things in our favour.

Within games individually, and the season as a whole, when things have been looking to run away from us they have done and incredibly quickly too.  His initial run was good, showing what he and the team were capable of, however once the "new us" had been around for a few games and began to be sussed out Kit was lost and once teams got ahead that was it and we would pretty much be guaranteed a defeat.  Once we hit a short run of bad form that was it and that turned into an almost Magath like run of defeats and performances earlier this year.  Had his reign been reversed and started with some defensive and scrappy draws against the likes of Wigan and Rotherham and evolved into the run he had when he was caretaker then it would have looked like he and we were evolving.  As it is, he started off pretty damn well (fortunately) but devolved horrendously.  His performance has been the absolute inverse of what you would expect form a young manager learning on the job - he doesn't seem to have learnt anything.

Rene was definitely got rid of at an inopportune moment, but he had won three games in over two months including some truly and astonishingly dire performances against teams we should have at least competed with.  That form dropped us to bottom of the table and got us knocked out of the cup to a team two divisions below us, and had he been sacked before the Man Utd and Liverpool games his record would have been fully supportive of that.  Both Jol and Magath lasted longer than they should have in many's eyes - neither should have started the seasons they got sacked in at the club.

Kit has won four games since the end of January and we have scored twice or more only five times and conceded twice or more nine times in that same run - do we really want to stick with a manager who has evolved so negatively?

[Lighthouse]

But without going over old ground. If no manager is guaranteed success than why not stick to a manager that knows what needs improving. As for the managers that have recently left. Rene was never given enough time and if anything proved he could adapt to the problems we faced by his team selection against the top sides. Certainly the changes have done us no favours and have done us great harm. We can afford another Kit but not another Felix.

Kit may, and I'd wager he probably does, know what needs improving but has he shown anything to suggest that he is the one capable of improving it?  Without being overly negative, as this started as a pro-Kit post and there are plenty of anti-Kit ones, he has shown minimal indication that he's capable of turning things in our favour.

Within games individually, and the season as a whole, when things have been looking to run away from us they have done and incredibly quickly too.  His initial run was good, showing what he and the team were capable of, however once the "new us" had been around for a few games and began to be sussed out Kit was lost and once teams got ahead that was it and we would pretty much be guaranteed a defeat.  Once we hit a short run of bad form that was it and that turned into an almost Magath like run of defeats and performances earlier this year.  Had his reign been reversed and started with some defensive and scrappy draws against the likes of Wigan and Rotherham and evolved into the run he had when he was caretaker then it would have looked like he and we were evolving.  As it is, he started off pretty damn well (fortunately) but devolved horrendously.  His performance has been the absolute inverse of what you would expect form a young manager learning on the job - he doesn't seem to have learnt anything.

Rene was definitely got rid of at an inopportune moment, but he had won three games in over two months including some truly and astonishingly dire performances against teams we should have at least competed with.  That form dropped us to bottom of the table and got us knocked out of the cup to a team two divisions below us, and had he been sacked before the Man Utd and Liverpool games his record would have been fully supportive of that.  Both Jol and Magath lasted longer than they should have in many's eyes - neither should have started the seasons they got sacked in at the club.

Kit has won four games since the end of January and we have scored twice or more only five times and conceded twice or more nine times in that same run - do we really want to stick with a manager who's has evolved so negatively?

Um ......yes?  :033:

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Two very sensible and well-argued posts GtM.

[Lighthouse]

The Kit Stay thread has been hijacked I see.

Not content to let the few sane, normal people play in the sandbox, the bullies from the 'We need more threads to agree on' have come and kicked sand everywhere.

[Peabody]

This thread should be a breath of fresh air, unfortunately it will be highjacked by those who think that they have influence about who our club employs.

[Wimbledon_White]

All we are sayin' is give Kit a chance (again)

:-)

[McBride78]

I read an article earlier this week where Kit was quoted about the January window.  He said something to the effect there was money available, but the players he could have brought in would have only helped this campaign and would not fit the long term plan.  The loans were done as a gamble that he said paid off.  Meaning loans to ensure survival so the right players could be brought in during the summer.  I thought it candid and a good piece.  I read from it that he did not sacrafice long term for short term....meaning no overpriced mercenaries that dont fit the long term plan.  Especially with FFP and limited resources, we dont need overpriced players keeping us from buying and paying the right players. 

I could not find the piece this morning, but if anyone has it link it as i thought it was a good read. 

In short, I think there can be good arguments made for keeping kit as well as for going a different direction.  I dont fault anyone in either camp.  That said, Kit is the manager currently and there is no immediate benefit or joy delivered from not supporting the Club, its players, or its manager.  He was asked to do a difficult job with a club that had made questionable decisions for a few years.  Change can be good, or it can be devistating (Felix).  I for one do not see an immediate degative to Kit staying, other than recruitment of players.  That can be fixed if the club clearly articulates our vision and ambition.  If the summer period ends and we have not made moves to strengthen the club i will likely be more negative, but for now I am willing to relax, enjoy the excitement of potential summer moves, and trust that I will be pleased by our activity in the window.

[HatterDon]

We are the 20% WE ARE THE 20 PERCENT!

[Finnegans Wake]

Kit in.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

The Kit Stay thread has been hijacked I see.

Not content to let the few sane, normal people play in the sandbox, the bullies from the 'We need more threads to agree on' have come and kicked sand everywhere.

. . . because you afforded them the same privilege by staying out of the 'I want a new manager' thread they are returning the compliment I would guess.

[e4b]

I am in the Keep Kit Klan

[Lighthouse]

The Kit Stay thread has been hijacked I see.

Not content to let the few sane, normal people play in the sandbox, the bullies from the 'We need more threads to agree on' have come and kicked sand everywhere.

. . . because you afforded them the same privilege by staying out of the 'I want a new manager' thread they are returning the compliment I would guess.

Well as you clearly remember my posts in support of Kit on the multi anti Kit threads. It proves how few pro Kit opinions there are. Shame that just one pro Symons thread could not have been left to run without the multi antis having a say. There is just one of me that can be accused of giving the same opinion and being boring. But an awful lot those holding the other opinion. But I am flattered you remember my posts so well.