Our form since the window shut ...

[JackyFulham90]

In the league

Won 4 Drawn 3 Lost 2

I think that is very decent we let in late goals at Cardiff,  Hull & of course at home to high flying Brighton.
I'm not a huge fan of Kit Symons I have also called for him to be replaced as fulham manager but for me the change should have been made in the summer. When you look at that record since the window shut we are going in the right direction & will keep improving. He is getting the best out of Dembele & I'm not sure a managerial change will benefit us right now. We need stability after the last few years.
Will Symons get us promoted? Maybe not but we are getting better we are a lot more competitive than last season so I think with a little but of patience even with Symons we should be between 6th-12th.

[valdeingruo]

The comeback win against Reading complicates things a little. Many on this board and elsewhere, had Kit gone after the first half. The squad fought back admirably. Even after going down so early in the second half the resolve was there. Getting their lead back down to 1 so quickly had something to do with it.

Dembele has been a revelation this year and in recent interviews he has credited Kit with his development. If we develop Dembele more under Kit and he signs a new contract, that may be worth it. Losing Dembele to me, will be a bigger blow than loosing Patrick Roberts.

We will have to play almost perfectly for the rest of the season to make the playoffs. QPR and the second half against Reading show we are very capable in this division, its a matter of consistency. As you point out, and ive mentioned myself a few times, you could argue that if the match had ended at 80 minutes, we would be 4-8 points better off.

It will be telling against Bristol City. Too many times in recent memory have we had an emphatic victory, only to completely flop the next match.

All of us want a Fulham man at the helm to succeed. If our defensive errors, particularly from set plays improves and tactically we get better I can see a late run, maybe not top six but top 10.

Its hard to call this one. Will we let Kit run out his contract (up at the end of the season) or will we bring in another figure. Mr Khan has said top 6 is our goal. Our inconsistency at the moment will not bring that.

[filham]

Still too early to make judgements, just think how good things would start to look after a win at Bristol and a draw at Burnley, not impossible but then it could be back to back defeats and we would all be looking at the relegation places again.

Things are tight and we are not consistent.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Cardiff- two points dropped
Brighton- point dropped
Hull- point dropped
Charlton- 2 points dropped

That's 6 points we should have right now. I won't include leeds because we were lucky to draw. Ok let's actually make it 5 not 6 because drawing with Huddersfield in the last second cancels it out.

So we should have 22 points. Life would look a lot rosier if that were the case and I'm frustrated that it has happened so often. The reading game was a must win because of all the previous dropped points and we did.

I suppose it's bought Symons more time but that win is only as good as the run that follows. I will take 5 points from the next 3 games but I would ideally like 6 or 7. We are forever playing catch up so we need to take points where we aren't expected to. Ie Burnley away and Birmingham at home. 

[Lighthouse]

Again it is down to expectations. Instead of complaining about the manager in regards to late goals I tend to say we were unlucky. In the same way as the comeback against Reading was good luck. OK up to a point or three you make your own luck.

The Charlton match and the subs can be put on the back of the manager. But had it worked we would not be complaining. As for Leeds. Poor display but then they equalised through a very controversial penalty.


I think we need to remember that we were amongst the favourites to struggle this season. Only high expectations amongst a few fans and the owner seems to have confused us. After the rebuilding and struggles of recent years, a consolidation is what was likely.

[Fulham1959]

My topic ("Only 1 Defeat in 6") on Saturday was virtually ignored :

"Only 1 defeat in 6

Joint highest goalscorers at 22 (with QPR)

Goal difference +3

Top Half of the table

Always look on the bright side of life !"

[Fulham1959]

Again it is down to expectations. Instead of complaining about the manager in regards to late goals I tend to say we were unlucky. In the same way as the comeback against Reading was good luck. OK up to a point or three you make your own luck.

The Charlton match and the subs can be put on the back of the manager. But had it worked we would not be complaining. As for Leeds. Poor display but then they equalised through a very controversial penalty.


I think we need to remember that we were amongst the favourites to struggle this season. Only high expectations amongst a few fans and the owner seems to have confused us. After the rebuilding and struggles of recent years, a consolidation is what was likely.

Well said !

[nose]

we have, when last I looked 17 points from 13 games. 7 off relegation and 7 off play off and unbelievably 8 off an automatic promotion place... just 8 and that, with the correct application/desire, doable. Whether it is likely is not the issue but cetainly possible for the right team.

Ifs and buts are always brlliant but we tend to remeber what when we could have done better, I am sure we got points when we shouldn't, like leeds.

window open or shut, it's the same for everyone.

I think at 2 0 down Kit was gone, 4 2 saved him but for how long?
I think he really is at last chance saloon, we just have to put a run together. He has to leave the team unchanged on saturday from the one that finished against reading.... if he fiddles around he will be taking a big risk!

[Arthur]

I think we need to remember that we were amongst the favourites to struggle this season. Only high expectations amongst a few fans and the owner seems to have confused us. After the rebuilding and struggles of recent years, a consolidation is what was likely.

You may have always viewed this as a season of consolidation, but I don't agree that the expectations of our owner and a few fans has confused us - 'us' presumably being the large number of supporters (perhaps even a majority) who think that we ought to be capable of challenging for a top six spot.

First, it wasn't just our owner who stated that the play-offs was a target; both Mike Rigg and Kit Symons said the same. You make it sound as if the likes of 'us' have misguidedly invested our faith solely in the judgement of someone with a recognised lack of football knowledge. This is not an accurate portrayal of the matter. I have little doubt you are aware of this.

Secondly, the pre-season odds of the bookmakers are of far less importance than you would have us grant them; they haven't prevented Brighton from topping the table now and they didn't stop us from plummeting to the bottom of the table at the start of last season.

In truth, no one is confused. I am every bit as clear as to why I think that the play-offs ought to be an achievable aim for this season as you are that it is an unrealistic hope.

[Arthur]

I think at 2 0 down Kit was gone...

However we like to interpret the statistics: only 1 defeat in 6 or only 1 win in 5; 4 wins since the transfer window closed when, in fact, it's only three, the likelihood is that, were it not for an unlikely turnaround on Saturday, Kit would no longer be the manager.

As nose went on to point out, he is still very much in 'last chance saloon'. Time will tell, of course, and whilst we can hope, it would take a brave person to stake his all on a run of good results materialising off the back of our win over Reading.

[nose]

I think at 2 0 down Kit was gone...

However we like to interpret the statistics: only 1 defeat in 6 or only 1 win in 5; 4 wins since the transfer window closed when, in fact, it's only three, the likelihood is that, were it not for an unlikely turnaround on Saturday, Kit would no longer be the manager.

As nose went on to point out, he is still very much in 'last chance saloon'. Time will tell, of course, and whilst we can hope, it would take a brave person to stake his all on a run of good results materialising off the back of our win over Reading.

I wouldn't like to predict the outcome of any of our games in the near future. I see no reason why we shouldn't win at britstol on saturday BUT conversely with the way we perform we could just as easily do what we did at charlton and throw away our own 2 goal lead.

My biggest hope is not to make changes, even o'hara for cairney that would seem likely would se4nd a terrible message to whoever got dropped and therefore the rest of the squad.

[Burt]

Related to the thread that Statto started.
http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=50629.0

Per my comment on that, with 17 points from 13 games, we need to amass 85 points to be in the mix come the end of the season, we need 68 points from the remaining 33 games, or 2.06 points per game.

At the moment we have won 4, drawn 5, lost 4.

To get the points required from 33 games, then that works out at changing our form such that we win at least 21 of these games, with a margin of error allowing for 6 draws and 6 defeats. Just an example... You can always reduce the number of defeats etc. but it does show the step change in form required.

Our win ratio needs to increase from the current 30% to at least 64%.

Consistency is key... We need to play like we did against QPR, the second half v. Reading, etc. most of the time rather than occasionally.

[DJinNJ]

I think we need to remember that we were amongst the favourites to struggle this season. Only high expectations amongst a few fans and the owner seems to have confused us. After the rebuilding and struggles of recent years, a consolidation is what was likely.

You may have always viewed this as a season of consolidation, but I don't agree that the expectations of our owner and a few fans has confused us - 'us' presumably being the large number of supporters (perhaps even a majority) who think that we ought to be capable of challenging for a top six spot.

First, it wasn't just our owner who stated that the play-offs was a target; both Mike Rigg and Kit Symons said the same. You make it sound as if the likes of 'us' have misguidedly invested our faith solely in the judgement of someone with a recognised lack of football knowledge. This is not an accurate portrayal of the matter. I have little doubt you are aware of this.

Secondly, the pre-season odds of the bookmakers are of far less importance than you would have us grant them; they haven't prevented Brighton from topping the table now and they didn't stop us from plummeting to the bottom of the table at the start of last season.

In truth, no one is confused. I am every bit as clear as to why I think that the play-offs ought to be an achievable aim for this season as you are that it is an unrealistic hope.

To be fair, if Khan wants to aim for top six, what are Rigg and Symons supposed to say publicly? Our boss is being unrealistic, we'll be happy with a boring midtable season? And really, almost every Championship team should be aiming for top six. As you point out, it's very unpredictable, so everyone can think maybe this will be our year. I don't think there's any contradiction in saying you're hoping for top six but would see 7th-12th as a good season under the circumstances.

[Arthur]

Per my comment on that, with 17 points from 13 games, we need to amass 85 points to be in the mix come the end of the season, we need 68 points from the remaining 33 games, or 2.06 points per game.

85 points would possibly achieve automatic promotion. Fewer than that will be needed to put us in with a shout of making the play-offs. To reach 77 points (a total which has, I believe, been enough in most seasons in the past decade), a record such as 17 wins and 9 draws would suffice. Put another way, picking up two wins and a draw from every four games (good form, but not unsustainable) between now and the end of the season would all but get us there (leaving us just one win shy).

I think the majority of supporters would consider that this is not an unrealistic expectation. Up to now, however, we have been garnering nearer to 5 points from every four matches. Continue in our current vein for a further eight matches and our target will rise to 8 points from every four matches (very good form and rather less sustainable).

This is why, in my opinion, if we are going to change the manager and not have to immediately accept that this season is another write-off, it will happen during the next four matches. Eight points or more in this spell and sticking with Kit will be deemed the better option; six points or fewer and a new manager will be seen as the more viable gamble.

[Arthur]

To be fair, if Khan wants to aim for top six, what are Rigg and Symons supposed to say publicly? Our boss is being unrealistic, we'll be happy with a boring midtable season? And really, almost every Championship team should be aiming for top six. As you point out, it's very unpredictable, so everyone can think maybe this will be our year. I don't think there's any contradiction in saying you're hoping for top six but would see 7th-12th as a good season under the circumstances.

You have over-egged the pudding. Of course Rigg and Symons aren't going to predict a 'boring mid-table season'; that would be ridiculous. And, indeed, there is nothing untoward in saying that we must be competitive in the top half of the table and see how high we can finish. After last season, if this were our aim, I see no reason for the Club not to say so.

Instead, however, Rigg and Symons were more emphatic than this. In one interview I saw, Kit strongly implied that he did not expect his contract would be renewed if we finished outside the top six.

It may be, as you suggest, that neither really believes what he is saying and that they have been instructed to tow the Chairman's line. Equally, there are two other possible interpretations, both of which are at least as viable, if not more so, than yours. One possibility is that Rigg and Symons have expressed their honest belief that a top six finish is a realistic target; the other is that Khan asked Rigg whether promotion was an achievable goal and it is our Chairman who is echoing Rigg's conviction rather than the other way round.

[hovewhite]

Tricky,khan between a rock and a hard place,does khan,stick or twist,shall kit stay or should he go?
Questions indeed?

[Carborundum]

We are bang average, with plenty of goals at both ends.  Currently we are shipping too many to be realistic top six contenders, but the fixes seem clearer and they don't involve major personnel changes in the back four.  Three things:

Make sure Dan Burn is on the pitch when opponents bring on the giant centre forward. 

Give Dembele a crash course in how to be effective when defending a corner. Hopefully this is happening post Sheffield Wednesday

Get a central defensive midfielder with physical "presence" in January. 

Do all three and the goals conceded per game could plummet.  April and May could yet be a lot of fun.

[fulhamben]

We are bang average, with plenty of goals at both ends.  Currently we are shipping too many to be realistic top six contenders, but the fixes seem clearer and they don't involve major personnel changes in the back four.  Three things:

Make sure Dan Burn is on the pitch when opponents bring on the giant centre forward. 

Give Dembele a crash course in how to be effective when defending a corner. Hopefully this is happening post Sheffield Wednesday

Get a central defensive midfielder with physical "presence" in January. 

Do all three and the goals conceded per game could plummet.  April and May could yet be a lot of fun.

why would you want Dembele defending corners. He should be on the halfway line getting ready for a quick vounter

[jarv]

Current form seems reasonable. I think supporters are upset and judgement gets clouded by the fact the goals conceded are all late, set pieces, headers, all of which is unacceptable in modern football. Conceding goals in such a manner makes Fulham look like a push over and makes all the fans go  fp.gif.
I think KS is definitely here until the end of the season. By then, there will be plenty of managers available from the merry go round.

[BestOfBrede]

We are bang average, with plenty of goals at both ends.  Currently we are shipping too many to be realistic top six contenders, but the fixes seem clearer and they don't involve major personnel changes in the back four.  Three things:

Make sure Dan Burn is on the pitch when opponents bring on the giant centre forward. 

Give Dembele a crash course in how to be effective when defending a corner. Hopefully this is happening post Sheffield Wednesday

Get a central defensive midfielder with physical "presence" in January. 

Do all three and the goals conceded per game could plummet.  April and May could yet be a lot of fun.

why would you want Dembele defending corners. He should be on the halfway line getting ready for a quick vounter

:plus one:
We should have dembele and Ross staying up ready to break. It will ensure that 2-3 oppos have to stay back also and therefore not all up attacking the corners/free kicks. Especially near the end of games when teams sometimes send the keeper up - they would think twice if Dembele/Ross are further forward!