If we don't invest in this window is everyone done with Khan?

[ScalleysDad]

There is the danger of a seasoned debate developing here so I will spoil it by pointing my concerns at the dug out again. JK was quick enough to slate the team from the very early stages of his tenure and even announced he was going to build a team around a particular player. Performances on the pitch rarely improved and neither did some of the basics but still it was the players fault both in his press conferences and press releases. I would have thought his list of replacements would have started taking shape as last season was winding down and I was frankly quite surprised the opening gambit for a brave new world was Scott Parker getting another year but that is where it has stalled. Surely if in his own words he has so many players to get in at least a couple of gems from his little black book would be training with the squad as it will take several weeks to gel a new look and new approach.
Bristol City needed a playmaker. They liked Lee Tomlin, who offered a master class when they beat us just look at the stats, so they brought him and he has been a full timer there for about three weeks now. I agree we do not really want to fill the vacancies up with decidedly average or ageing journeymen but a centre back partnership needs to be working, the back four revamps, if there are any, should at least be introducing themselves and lets face it any player coming in will have to be tested for emotional durability as the JK way seems to be to pass the blame. If there is a three way tug of war the manager/head coach rarely wins so summer might not be over yet. 

[alfie]

Sometimes i don't get what get's said on here, surely before Khan invests in any player he has to be informed that said player is wanted, if he gets asked for players and he turns request down then we can have ago, but so far as i understand it he has never said no to player investment.

[cmg]

I'm a bit hesitant to get into these 'owner' discussions because I'm never quite sure what's being discussed. Calling for the removal or replacement of the owner always seems quite pointless. The owner can't 'walk away'. Somebody has to own the club and it takes a great deal of money and the agreement of the incumbent to achieve.

Opinion on the owner is, of course, open to all and we are all of equal weight and effectiveness here.

In times of failure it is natural to find someone to blame. Blaming players is tricky because there are a lot of them, we all have our different favourites, individual contributions to failure in a team game are often difficult to isolate and wholesale clearouts bring, as we have seen, their own problems.
Blaming managers is much more fruitful. One bloke - easy to get rid of. This is almost the default position and shouldering the blame is one of the reasons they are highly paid.
However if you pull that stunt multiple times in a short time you begin to look a bit silly. So you have to stick for a bit.
This then puts various semi-anonymous back office pen pushers into the firing line.This has always puzzled me as I have no real idea what these worthies do and I think many others share my ignorance.
So we are left with the owner. The one man who can't (legally) be got rid of. The buck stops at the top, so why not the blame?

Personally I would rather have Shahid Khan as an owner than the vast majority of club owners up and down the country. He may not be quite as wealthy as an oil-rich potentate or a Russian oligarch, even if he was there is probably not much more could be done financially under current regulations, and I'm more comfortable with someone who has made his money in the way he has. I don't believe he's in it for personal enrichment. It must be clear to him that  there are much easier ways to turn a buck than running down a football club for a property value that may be unobtainable.

Compared to MAF? Well he certainly has done nothing for the club compared to what MAF did but, on a personal level, I would rather buy a used car (or a new bumper) from Khan than from Al Fayed.

One thing I don't go along with is this 'no knowledge of football' business. I doubt that he had much more knowledge of the American automobile industry when he stepped off the plane from Lahore, but he didn't allow that to be much of an obstacle.
We, as fans, are impatient for success (or, at least for reversal of failure) but our concept of timescales might well be rather different from that of a successful businessman.

[Mince n Tatties]

It doesnt matter how much we have to spend,them days of any big names signing for
us are long gone(I might be wrong) players are going to look at the situation we
have been in last few seasons.
We will get the left overs in the window again Im presuming,or we might get a big
name if he is only after good money if we offer it...

[terryr]

" If he doesn't do X or Y I'll be angry and do this or that"
C'mon, the transfer window doesn't officially open until July 1st. Most players contracts don't expire until June 30th. Unless released from their contracts or announcements that they will not be renewed they cannot sign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window
What we have seen is the clean out needed to prepare for bringing players in. The club needs to get its ducks in a row and have the balance sheet prepared for spending.
We had an embargo this year right?
They will make decisions based on offloading high wage under performing players ( love bite Skelters etc)
They also needed to see if they keep Dembele by offering him a big contract ( which they tried but failed)
I will judge the club after the transfer window opens....NOT before.
Please lets see what happens before proclaiming it is a disaster before it has even started.
NONE of you have any idea who we are targeting nor what stage the negotiations are at.
Is it none of us feels good unless we are moaning and telling each other the rage we feel if something  ( which cant of happened yet) doesn't happen?

[Mince n Tatties]

" If he doesn't do X or Y I'll be angry and do this or that"
C'mon, the transfer window doesn't officially open until July 1st. Most players contracts don't expire until June 30th. Unless released from their contracts or announcements that they will not be renewed they cannot sign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window
What we have seen is the clean out needed to prepare for bringing players in. The club needs to get its ducks in a row and have the balance sheet prepared for spending.
We had an embargo this year right?
They will make decisions based on offloading high wage under performing players ( love bite Skelters etc)
They also needed to see if they keep Dembele by offering him a big contract ( which they tried but failed)
I will judge the club after the transfer window opens....NOT before.
Please lets see what happens before proclaiming it is a disaster before it has even started.
NONE of you have any idea who we are targeting nor what stage the negotiations are at.
Is it none of us feels good unless we are moaning and telling each other the rage we feel if something  ( which cant of happened yet) doesn't happen?

True what you say,but it would nice to get a bit of
encouragement.
And players have signed for other clubs before the window has opened.
It just doesnt go through till July Ist..

[dannyboi-ffc]

" If he doesn't do X or Y I'll be angry and do this or that"
C'mon, the transfer window doesn't officially open until July 1st. Most players contracts don't expire until June 30th. Unless released from their contracts or announcements that they will not be renewed they cannot sign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window
What we have seen is the clean out needed to prepare for bringing players in. The club needs to get its ducks in a row and have the balance sheet prepared for spending.
We had an embargo this year right?
They will make decisions based on offloading high wage under performing players ( love bite Skelters etc)
They also needed to see if they keep Dembele by offering him a big contract ( which they tried but failed)
I will judge the club after the transfer window opens....NOT before.
Please lets see what happens before proclaiming it is a disaster before it has even started.
NONE of you have any idea who we are targeting nor what stage the negotiations are at.
Is it none of us feels good unless we are moaning and telling each other the rage we feel if something  ( which cant of happened yet) doesn't happen?

In my defence if you look at my wording of the question I did say  "If" and not "we haven't". I appreciate it's early days and lots can happen. I just personally feel this is Khan's 3rd time lucky season and if it goes tits up like the Last two it's a 3rd strike for most fans.

Wolves signed Lonergan and I'm not sure to be perfectly honest whether he was out of contract or not but he signed regardless and it was announced. Dembele and Hyndman likewise. We just don't even seem to be linked to anything concrete at the minute and I am a bit concerned the club aren't quite as quick as others.

I don't think anyone can complain at how quick we've addressed the outgoings and if you read my op I actually didn't complain about that.

Don't think it's moaning for moanings sake at all. If anything I think it's another chance for Khan which rightly or wrongly he wouldn't be getting from the fans at other impatient clubs.

[nose]

I think we need to have some decent new players in time before the season starts, which actually is not that far away. The transfer window opens tomorrow so hopefully we will see some activity soon.

If we are 'panic buying' in August because we hadn't got anyone in July, then we certainly have problems. a new left back would seem top priority as we do not seem to have one at all as far as I can see.

I am exceptionally concerned that we brought in a top manager but will not give him the tools to do the job properly, or actually do it at all. wem all know the squad is woefully short in many areas and as such it is not an unreasonable expectation that we will see some movement sooner rather than later.

In annswer to the post itself, I have seen very little in the last three years to give me faith he is the correct man for the job, but who else would be willing to come in and do what is necessary. I am resigned to a long slow decline if we do not invest sensibly (whatever that means) in the next week or two.    WE have a nice web site/programme and plenty of corporate speak, but not much happening on the pitch.

[RaySmith]

I do think fans' concerns are justified - relegated from the Prem, we  have very nearly gone down again both seasons in the Championship.

True, there could be a lot worse owners than Khan, and he is a millionaire and he has spent money, also  there's not much we can do about the owner - we can't sack him, he can only sack himself!

But people have been questioning Khan's motives, which no one in this thread has done  I don't think, as well as competence, for some time now, so another season of struggle will surely  lead to more criticism - understandable considering our decline.

For me , the main thing is spending more on players - that's the best bet for success, but we all know FFP comes into it, plus  Khan doesn't seem the type to spend unlimited money  to compete for a top place, but he has got in a manager  with a track record of gaining promotion.

[Lighthouse]

The owner would argue that he has put people in the positions to make decisions and it is they who have failed at the job. Not sure that we can blame him for not putting his hand in his pocket. It is just the signings have mostly been poor.

The set up still feels wrong at the top. Is the manager able to make the decisions he wants to? We shall see as the Summer sploshes on.

[jarv]

Serious question for knowledgeable folks on here.   The last successful yeam build...Keegan/Tigana era, who were the key signings/players to make that happen. I believe Coleman was one (the best central defender outside the premier division?) and I think Saha was a lucky one because he failed at Newcastle (who doesn't).

Who else were the key players back then?

The reason I ask is, Leicester signed some gems as we all know from obscurity, the players Fulham need are out there, somewhere.

[snarks]

In answer to the question, no I wouldn't, I've seen what some owners have done/are doing to clubs, and in all honesty wouldn't wish that on anyone. Mr Khan may not provide the level of investment I want, but unless he destroys the club, he'll have my backing regardless

[cmg]

"Serious question for (knowledgeable) folks on here.   The last successful yeam build...Keegan/Tigana era, who were the key signings/players to make that happen."


Yes. Of course it didn't all happen at once. There were at least two different phases.
To get out of Div 2, I guess Bracewell was our first 'name' signing. Followed swiftly by Pesch, Taylor, Coleman, Brevitt, Trollope and Beardsley (was he a loan?). Hayles and the Horse were signed the season we went up. The very important Clark came the nex"t season along with Melville and Goldbaek. Then came the Tigana additions that blitzed that Division - Saha, Collins, Boa and Goma. VDS, Marlet, Malbranque and Leggy came the next season.

[jarv]

wow, with the exception of Marlet,  what a team !!!

[toshes mate]

All team sports rely on the chemistry of the team and no matter how many high priced players you buy the same law holds true.  A good coach can get the best out of an ordinary player, can turn an okay player into a really good one, and can turn a good player into a star, as part of the process of establishing team chemistry.   It is also the formation or patterns of formation a team can adopt during a game that can alter the way a match is progressing through one or two key players because the rest of the side know what is going on, and can take advantage of weakness in the opposition.  With all these variables we should all understand how difficult it is to adapt to one or two players leaving a successful tem let alone a lot of players leaving a struggling side.

Our head coach/manager will assemble the best bunch of players he can in keeping with his designs for the team, and confidence and consistency will arrive when they play well together even in defeat.   What hurts a team is playing badly in defeat through the most human of behaviours called deflation.   Last season we showed fear even when two up against Charlton and that is not the mark of a good side.  In the coming season we must show strength of character on the pitch, in the changing rooms, at the training ground, and in our public face, only then will chemistry build and yield success.

I haven't seen strength of character absent of fear for a long while and I still maintain that our greatest weakness is in the engine room – midfield.   I am hopeful that our coach will bolster that midfield in ways we haven't seen since the Hodgson reign, and that is where the renaissance will happen.

I hope the renaissance begins with Newcastle and then onwards but even if we lose a couple of games before we hit our stride I think our coach will deliver in 2016/17.    It isn't about the paper version of a team it is about how the players perform on the pitch when the coach has given them the strongest possible foundation that matters and if players are gone then we move on.  The last thing we should be is pessimistic just because we support a Cinderella club like Fulham.   We are not used to success and that is our let down but we should remember Cinderella went to the ball and married the Prince despite her family's attempts to stop her......   

[Twig]

" If he doesn't do X or Y I'll be angry and do this or that"
C'mon, the transfer window doesn't officially open until July 1st. Most players contracts don't expire until June 30th. Unless released from their contracts or announcements that they will not be renewed they cannot sign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window
What we have seen is the clean out needed to prepare for bringing players in. The club needs to get its ducks in a row and have the balance sheet prepared for spending.
We had an embargo this year right?
They will make decisions based on offloading high wage under performing players ( love bite Skelters etc)
They also needed to see if they keep Dembele by offering him a big contract ( which they tried but failed)
I will judge the club after the transfer window opens....NOT before.
Please lets see what happens before proclaiming it is a disaster before it has even started.
NONE of you have any idea who we are targeting nor what stage the negotiations are at.
Is it none of us feels good unless we are moaning and telling each other the rage we feel if something  ( which cant of happened yet) doesn't happen?

Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought the embargo had been lifted?

[cmg]

wow, with the exception of Marlet,  what a team !!!

Yep. That was the one that "didn't just win the division but beat it up and left it in the gutter dressed as a clown." [Sorry, I know I repeat this one every year, but it's my favourite. It came from the Guardian's write-up of the season.]

Looking at it now, it helps to explain the frustration felt by today's fans. Of course, in those days, there was no limitation placed on the amount of money that could be thrown at a problem.
I think it worth noting, too, that these guys were not players of 'proven Championship quality' but largely ones who had good credentials in a higher league. Saha was a great punt - a young hope whose career had seemingly stalled. it takes skill and luck to unearth these - and there 'aint many of 'em.

[Twig]

I think we are drifting off topic here, Dannyboi did say "I believe Khan is a nice man.........." He finished by saying "Let's go for it.......", "I still have faith in it coming good". 

This is hardly an anti Khan rant and neither did Dannyboi presume to know what signings the club may or may not be planning.  It was more of a - Khan is drinking from the last chance saloon - post.  And I happen to agree with those sentiments.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I think we are drifting off topic here, Dannyboi did say "I believe Khan is a nice man.........." He finished by saying "Let's go for it.......", "I still have faith in it coming good". 

This is hardly an anti Khan rant and neither did Dannyboi presume to know what signings the club may or may not be planning.  It was more of a - Khan is drinking from the last chance saloon - post.  And I happen to agree with those sentiments.

I do sometimes think people reply to the title of a thread without reading the post. Easy mistake to make but you understood it perfectly Twig.

It wasn't anti Khan, more like a roll call and one last chance. The title has to lure people in otherwise no one would click on it lol

[Logicalman]

I'm a bit hesitant to get into these 'owner' discussions because I'm never quite sure what's being discussed. Calling for the removal or replacement of the owner always seems quite pointless. The owner can't 'walk away'. Somebody has to own the club and it takes a great deal of money and the agreement of the incumbent to achieve.

Opinion on the owner is, of course, open to all and we are all of equal weight and effectiveness here.

In times of failure it is natural to find someone to blame. Blaming players is tricky because there are a lot of them, we all have our different favourites, individual contributions to failure in a team game are often difficult to isolate and wholesale clearouts bring, as we have seen, their own problems.
Blaming managers is much more fruitful. One bloke - easy to get rid of. This is almost the default position and shouldering the blame is one of the reasons they are highly paid.
However if you pull that stunt multiple times in a short time you begin to look a bit silly. So you have to stick for a bit.
This then puts various semi-anonymous back office pen pushers into the firing line.This has always puzzled me as I have no real idea what these worthies do and I think many others share my ignorance.
So we are left with the owner. The one man who can't (legally) be got rid of. The buck stops at the top, so why not the blame?

Personally I would rather have Shahid Khan as an owner than the vast majority of club owners up and down the country. He may not be quite as wealthy as an oil-rich potentate or a Russian oligarch, even if he was there is probably not much more could be done financially under current regulations, and I'm more comfortable with someone who has made his money in the way he has. I don't believe he's in it for personal enrichment. It must be clear to him that  there are much easier ways to turn a buck than running down a football club for a property value that may be unobtainable.

Compared to MAF? Well he certainly has done nothing for the club compared to what MAF did but, on a personal level, I would rather buy a used car (or a new bumper) from Khan than from Al Fayed.

One thing I don't go along with is this 'no knowledge of football' business. I doubt that he had much more knowledge of the American automobile industry when he stepped off the plane from Lahore, but he didn't allow that to be much of an obstacle.
We, as fans, are impatient for success (or, at least for reversal of failure) but our concept of timescales might well be rather different from that of a successful businessman.

I would have to agree with this. The buck stops at the top, but the top cannot be moved unless he wants to, and I'm not sure, being the successful businessman he has been and still is, that he will be ready to move on any time soon!

As fans we perhaps have more of an emotional connection with the club that Khan, who likely looks at the financial results of the club before the actual results on the pitch each week, but even as fans, we are in no position to effectively tell the guy to leave, and to that end we are at his mercy to some extent. There are far worse owners out there, we've seen one or more here at the cottage in our history, and until Khan shows that he really cares nothing for our club, I will stick with him. Not so much because I firmly believe he is the true saviour of our club, but because, for the near future, he is the ONLY saviour of our club, and when you have a choice of one, ambivalence is the only other option.