Standing

[BedsFFC]

A thread on TFI got me thinking about the old days and where would be the best place to have "safe standing".

In my time, the hammersmith end...although Thamesbank sounds so much more 70's and I prefer it, was the main ffc end.

However, over the years, I have found the Johnny Haynes / enclosure has seemed to be the place with more characters in it. I look back at the times when I've heard those funny lines only heard at football and pretty much they were all in the JH. I go back to the late 70's.

I think if we were to have standing, the enclosure would be the ideal spot.

On a slight tangent. If we were to choose the place for the more vocal amongst us to congregate, probably the worse place would be right at the back of the hammersmith end. People always say they can't hear them but hear away fans. The main point is, they don't just sing at the back of the putney end

[westcliff white]

i much prefer all seater personally, feels safer for my son when I take him. But fully get the views of having a standing zone, its just not for me

[Fulham Tup North]

Judging by the players we have at the moment, the safest place to stand would be in between the posts!!!!
No danger of getting hit by anything more dangerous than a curt remark, I would think.
COYW

[Jonaldiniho 88]

Great way to improve the capacity of the riverside we have been promised would be to rip up the seats and make it standing. Funny to think we could gain the desired capacity by undoing a stand rather than the expensive plans. I am not suggesting this is the way forward and by my flawed point we could make the ground a 50,000 stadium if we scrapped all the seats. It could be a way of softening the blow if work were to commence (putting the riverside out of action). I don't think standing is dangerous and think it should be an option made available to clubs. A singing area (I think is a great idea) would probably be subscribed by the same folk that want to stand and would work brilliantly as long as adequate evacuation and policing was provided. That's where I'd buy a ticket.

[_Putney_]

i much prefer all seater personally, feels safer for my son when I take him. But fully get the views of having a standing zone, its just not for me

So don't take your son to the standing zone.  We stand at the back of the Hammersmith End as it is now, does that make you feel unsafe?

[nose]

i am so sorry the issue and so called safe standing has decided to rear its ugly head again.

There are two obvious issues
1) safety. When I was younger, we had to often stand at away games and it was clearly unsafe. it remains so although I do accept that better regulated standing areas and crowd control aleviate the issue to some extent.
2) if safe standing were to be introdyuced would that mean everyonne else sat down thus allowing everyone else to have a proper view of the pitch.

Whilst I note that people stand at the back of the hammersmith end and therefore are not in the way of those in front, falling forward remains an issue for those in the row in front of the standing.

It isn't really safe to have standing. I do not comprehend why people find that so hard to get to grips with. how many more tragedies will it take because in truth unless the sections are just a few people standing in a succesion of small pens then it cannot be that safe. 

[westcliff white]

i much prefer all seater personally, feels safer for my son when I take him. But fully get the views of having a standing zone, its just not for me

So don't take your son to the standing zone.  We stand at the back of the Hammersmith End as it is now, does that make you feel unsafe?

Did you read all the comment, I said I fully get it its just not for me.  fp.gif

In some grounds you wourld be thrown out for standing in a seating area, thanks fully they dont do that at fulham. As Nose says it could be dangerous for someone in front of you, curious if you consider those supporters when you stand? thats not having a go before you get afronted again i was just asking

[King_Crud]

i am so sorry the issue and so called safe standing has decided to rear its ugly head again.

There are two obvious issues
1) safety. When I was younger, we had to often stand at away games and it was clearly unsafe. it remains so although I do accept that better regulated standing areas and crowd control aleviate the issue to some extent.
2) if safe standing were to be introdyuced would that mean everyonne else sat down thus allowing everyone else to have a proper view of the pitch.

Whilst I note that people stand at the back of the hammersmith end and therefore are not in the way of those in front, falling forward remains an issue for those in the row in front of the standing.

It isn't really safe to have standing. I do not comprehend why people find that so hard to get to grips with. how many more tragedies will it take because in truth unless the sections are just a few people standing in a succesion of small pens then it cannot be that safe. 

I do not comprehend why people find it so hard to get to grips with the fact that safe standing is safe and is not the same as the standing we had in the bad old days

[westcliff white]

i am so sorry the issue and so called safe standing has decided to rear its ugly head again.

There are two obvious issues
1) safety. When I was younger, we had to often stand at away games and it was clearly unsafe. it remains so although I do accept that better regulated standing areas and crowd control aleviate the issue to some extent.
2) if safe standing were to be introdyuced would that mean everyonne else sat down thus allowing everyone else to have a proper view of the pitch.

Whilst I note that people stand at the back of the hammersmith end and therefore are not in the way of those in front, falling forward remains an issue for those in the row in front of the standing.

It isn't really safe to have standing. I do not comprehend why people find that so hard to get to grips with. how many more tragedies will it take because in truth unless the sections are just a few people standing in a succesion of small pens then it cannot be that safe. 

I do not comprehend why people find it so hard to get to grips with the fact that safe standing is safe and is not the same as the standing we had in the bad old days
[/quote]
I am yet to be fully convinced but am open minded about it, it doesnt appeal to me but do understand why people would liek to have htis option.

I am not sure it would cut the old fashioned surges and what is less reported such as the over crowding that led to personal possesions being stolen or people being abused but I fully understand the urge for this facilty.

[jarv]

I remember some really scary situations when standing. Experienced issues at Wembley, Hampden, Stamford Bridge and even at the cottage.  No problems standing at Brentford, no fans. :005: Though on the one occasion I went to watch Fulham there. I did leave at half time, not because of fear. Dreadful football, pouring rain and within earshot of  a bunch of foul mouthed Brentford yobs, all of which made me quite miserable.

[toshes mate]

I have very mixed feelings about the standing/sitting safety argument.  As a kid and youngster when Craven Cottage seats were limited to the Stevenage Road stand (now Johnny Haynes's Stand).  I enjoyed the freedom of the three sides of terracing and the Stevenage Road enclosure for my admission charge and it was mostly safe.  Even when there was an exceptional gate it had to be close to capacity before it felt more like sardines on the tube at rush hour, and all the grounds I have visited before seating have mostly been the same. Probably my worse experience on the terraces was at Hillsborough but not because of safety concerns. I didn't get a ticket until late in the day and ended up in the opposition end with a small group of other Fulham supporters (that was for the Cup semi-final against Birmingham). Stamford Bridge west side was also dangerous getting out the ground with a steep and narrow path out into the Fulham Road.  Perhaps I was lucky but I never felt unsafe attending football as a kid, although in my youth I had the misfortune to run into opposition supporters in the street and brave out some narrow scrapes.   

I do believe standing areas should be re-introduced especially with the advanced knowledge gained via the various investigations into safety at stadia.  Terracing is not inherently dangerous provided it is correctly designed and maintained. 

[_Putney_]

Should everyone remain seated when there's a goal out of fear of falling forward? 

[nose]

i am so sorry the issue and so called safe standing has decided to rear its ugly head again.

There are two obvious issues
1) safety. When I was younger, we had to often stand at away games and it was clearly unsafe. it remains so although I do accept that better regulated standing areas and crowd control aleviate the issue to some extent.
2) if safe standing were to be introdyuced would that mean everyonne else sat down thus allowing everyone else to have a proper view of the pitch.

Whilst I note that people stand at the back of the hammersmith end and therefore are not in the way of those in front, falling forward remains an issue for those in the row in front of the standing.

It isn't really safe to have standing. I do not comprehend why people find that so hard to get to grips with. how many more tragedies will it take because in truth unless the sections are just a few people standing in a succesion of small pens then it cannot be that safe. 

I do not comprehend why people find it so hard to get to grips with the fact that safe standing is safe and is not the same as the standing we had in the bad old days

I am yet to be fully convinced but am open minded about it, it doesnt appeal to me but do understand why people would liek to have htis option.

I am not sure it would cut the old fashioned surges and what is less reported such as the over crowding that led to personal possesions being stolen or people being abused but I fully understand the urge for this facilty.


[/quote]

What I have seen of so called safe standing isn't necesarilly that safe even if it safer.  I haveby no means done a full survey but if it really is then why not? Especially if everyone else really sits.

[nose]

as i do not know quite how crowd control works in safe standing. I assume there are barriers between every row thus prevenmnting crushing as a crowd surges forward but does everyone get an allocated place to stand? Could one row be very congested and another virtually empty.
Just a question not anything else.

[Mince n Tatties]

There wouldn't be people falling forward onto seated
area as it wouldn't be behind seats, it would be at
the side or front of seated areas like Celtic have
and in Germany.
Personally I think it should be Standing all round except
for Johnny Haynes Stand. Sitting down is for the Theatre or Opera... COYW.
And it's warmer on cold days.

[Whitesideup]

I believe quite a few clubs in the Bundesliga have standing areas. These areas are then converted to seating for European matches as that is a requirement of UEFA. As far as I am aware it works well, and I haven't heard of any incidents.

I think the percentage of the ground should be reasonably small, and yes, there would be measures to prevent surges and people falling from great heights. But it could help the atmosphere.

Mind you, height differences have grown over the last thirty years. Maybe areas could be ordered so the the 6 foot 10 blokes stand in the back row !

[westcliff white]

Should everyone remain seated when there's a goal out of fear of falling forward? 

Don't think anyone said that, I know I didn't.

[cmg]

This explains the various options pretty well:

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/

I imagine the first option is the preferred one.

In my mind I lament the lack of terraces these days. But, looking back, I can appreciate the dangers. Obviously they weren't dangerous for us; we are still here, but enough didn't make it to underline their undesirability.
Funnily enough the biggest crowds I was ever in, at Wembley, were the most comfortable because the terraces were divided into smaller sections. The danger here came when the smaller sections became overcrowded because of 'bunking in'. Tuurnstiles were rushed, walls climbed, I got into White Hart Lane once when the crowd broke open the big exit gate. Fiddling at the turnstiles was also very common.
As has been said Stamford Bridge, with its steep steps could be quite hairy on exit, although Ibrox (which was the same Leitch pattern) was much worse and eventually people died there. Anfield was scary and the Boleyn could also be on a smaller scale. The Fulham end for the Hillsborough semi-final (Leppings Lane End) was a disaster waiting to happen. Which, eventualy, it did.
Many people were killed at Burnden Park (Bolton) just after the war, but it took nigh on 50 years and many more deaths before anything effective was done. That's why terraces, unless very effectively limited and constrained will not return.

[Mince n Tatties]

Funny that just as this is being discussed on here Im
reading Brighton looking to make a standing area at the Annex.

[King_Crud]

Tens of thousands do it safely in Germany every week