Possible lack of leadership

[FulhamStu]

Listening to mark wright last night on the radio and he was talking about the issues arsenal have today. Basically said the manager lays the foundation but the team have to function without the manager on game day and that arsenal lack leaders like Adams, Bould, and a few others.  He said that if the team or even a player did not do his job, these lead players would grab them and give them a good bollocking.

This got me thinking, when we are good we are very good but we don't have that killer instinct.  We struggle to grind out results and sometimes lose games we should or could have won.  Maybe we lack this leadership within the team.  Maybe our guys are just too nice, sort of like our football.

Look at teams like Sheffield Weds or Leeds, they do not have better players, maybe deeper squads, esp up front, but they know how to get the job done and I suspect have tougher players than us.

Having said all that this is the first season for this team, it's a project near the beginning.  We will not get promoted this season, quite frankly we are not ready.  We need to understand in the summer where to strengthen and I would suggest on pitch leadership could be one area.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I agree regarding the Leadership issues. All successful teams need a strong Captain, he is the talisman. But to help the Captain, bearing in mind he cannot do it all on his own, is for the Captain to have Lieutenants, three or four in the team to back him up. They are generally strong experienced characters, warrior/ fighters, who are assertive and lead by example.
Alas Fulham are at the moment well short of those kind of players, and it shows.

[Woolly Mammoth]

and you don't find those kind of players using stats.

[bog]

My top 5 five captains for us:-

Johnny Haynes, Alan Mullery, Simon Morgan, Danny Murphy and Chris Coleman. (imagine them in the same line up)

No doubt someone will bring a name that I have forgotten....

092.gif

[toshes mate]

At least Arsenal play with eleven men and not ten plus whatever pieces of Martin choose to show, and that is a notoriously difficult handicap when you consider leadership.  If the guv'nor has no choice but to pick a guy who doesn't want to play then it has ramifications throughout the whole structure and slowly saps morale.  If you have ever worked for an employer who has weak managers, the kind that do as they are told and never think for themselves, then you'll know just how great a handicap it can be.  Considering he has been asked to coach a team carrying a huge millstone around his neck, SJ has done a mighty good job but we shouldn't judge performances as if we are on a level playing field because we are not.

[toshes mate]

That is a pretty good line-up of influential captains, bog.  Reminds me of when Moore and Mullery were on the pitch together, especially during our cup run.

[bog]

Tosh, can we ever forget those two in our colours? Mullers in midfield running the show and Bobby at the back? They said Bobby was past his best when he came to us...oh no he was not!!! Just off to today's game...what memories those two gave us when I sit and stare misty eyed pre-match across the pitch.....


092.gif 

[FulhamStu]

The Chris Martin saga is bazar and I can understand why Slav dug his heals in, I do currently think however t could be his one big mistake this season.  Re my comments on summer recruitment, it would have been better to spend the rest of the Martin loan money on someone like Boogle, give him the rest of the season to integrate, then recruit accordingly next summer.

[alfie]

At least Arsenal play with eleven men and not ten plus whatever pieces of Martin choose to show, and that is a notoriously difficult handicap when you consider leadership.  If the guv'nor has no choice but to pick a guy who doesn't want to play then it has ramifications throughout the whole structure and slowly saps morale.  If you have ever worked for an employer who has weak managers, the kind that do as they are told and never think for themselves, then you'll know just how great a handicap it can be.  Considering he has been asked to coach a team carrying a huge millstone around his neck, SJ has done a mighty good job but we shouldn't judge performances as if we are on a level playing field because we are not.

I agree to most of that, but for what he is getting from Martin he might just as well kept Woodrow, he could not do any worse. I don't blame Martin any more, he has made it very clear he does not want to be here, it is now down to SJ who keeps picking him, maybe he won't today, let's see.

[toshes mate]

Tosh, can we ever forget those two in our colours? Mullers in midfield running the show and Bobby at the back? They said Bobby was past his best when he came to us...oh no he was not!!! Just off to today's game...what memories those two gave us when I sit and stare misty eyed pre-match across the pitch.....

Misty eyed me, too.
I have a long faded, and perhaps somewhat jaded memory of Mullers clocking (I think that is the appropriate expression) Jimmy Dunne in front of the Enclosure at the Putney End, away from play and fortunately unseen by the officials for reasons I never actually found out and extracting that extra twenty five percent from his team mate for the rest of the game. Such was the nature of the game in those days.

[nose]

i like woodrow and feel he was badly treated...his goals per minutes on the field were extremely impressive.
his style would suit the team
he was twice dropped after MoM performances, with different managers. when joca arrived he would surely have kept the winning team he saw rather than change it and one can only draw conclusions that he was pressured to change the side at that time.
twice MoM twice dropped, not a good way to run a team or encourage the squad.... or the player.

i wonder as i have mentioned woodrow if my usual stalker is about to show up...

[bill taylors apprentice]

If you only look at any half decent FFC team of the past you will see at least half a team capable of being Captains.

Cairney, fine player, but a joke as Captain.

Trouble is, the whole squad lacks character !

[nose]

i cannot agree with the critic of cairney.
we have done better with him as a captain than when parker was on the pitch and cairney's game has improved IMO when he is captain. he takes it seriously and shows more maturity when in the role.

i agree he does not compare with the names listed above but i think he does a better job than is being stated AND the team is playing really well, they play as a team and work realy really hard but what he can't do is make them what they are not, only the board could have done that by brining in a few more players with more combative attributes. we just do not have that. before the window i did suggest we needed a couple of tough guys to impose themselves. not everyone thought the same.

[toshes mate]

Again let's keep some perspective re. Martin

I have tried, Statto, I really have.  So he has scored some goals and let's forgive him the penalty misses because, hey, nobody else does it better. 

The hypothetical says 'but what if Martin had never happened and Smith started every game with Woodrow as back-up and after a slow start the goals starting going in?  The midfield were consistency itself, prising apart the openings and Smith was getting tap-ins no one could miss, and when he was subbed by Woody, he was doing the tap ins too.  And when they had off days there was Scotty and Sess and Stefan banging them in.   My goodness me, Matt Smith was sought after during the January window by all five others of the top six ....'   

We simply will never know what the real cost of the Martin saga is or was.

[filham]

My top 5 five captains for us:-

Johnny Haynes, Alan Mullery, Simon Morgan, Danny Murphy and Chris Coleman. (imagine them in the same line up)

No doubt someone will bring a name that I have forgotten....

092.gif

My top 5 five captains for us:-

Johnny Haynes, Alan Mullery, Simon Morgan, Danny Murphy and Chris Coleman. (imagine them in the same line up)

No doubt someone will bring a name that I have forgotten....

092.gif

I would add Brian McBride to the list.

[filham]

The problem with leadership and character is that it is difficult to measure and quantify and is therefore excluded from Stats Boy's programme.

[ScalleysDad]

Some great names from the past being mentioned as leaders but the make up of many teams like ours simply does not allow for the traditional leader on the pitch role. The current squad is made up of loans, a want away striker, a couple of lightweights, as yet untested or even untried imports and old legs. The expression 'bleeding black and white for the team" is not going to be heard for a while. Of the current squad I would have gone Kalas simply because I feel he plays in the best position for captaincy but he seems to be one of the perpetually injured loanees we seem to have had our fair share of over the years. He is possibly way too smart to be seen with his socks down, sleeves up and bellowing at someone for 10% more in the 85th minute. I know some will object to bellowing in public so strongly phrased eye contact then. MacDonald as the brick sh*thouse version of captaincy. Build the midfield and forwards around Cairney but the arm band does not fit.

[EastEndWhite]

Some great names from the past being mentioned as leaders but the make up of many teams like ours simply does not allow for the traditional leader on the pitch role. The current squad is made up of loans, a want away striker, a couple of lightweights, as yet untested or even untried imports and old legs. The expression 'bleeding black and white for the team" is not going to be heard for a while. Of the current squad I would have gone Kalas simply because I feel he plays in the best position for captaincy but he seems to be one of the perpetually injured loanees we seem to have had our fair share of over the years. He is possibly way too smart to be seen with his socks down, sleeves up and bellowing at someone for 10% more in the 85th minute. I know some will object to bellowing in public so strongly phrased eye contact then. MacDonald as the brick sh*thouse version of captaincy. Build the midfield and forwards around Cairney but the arm band does not fit.

I think it was McDonald having a go at the referee during the Birmingham Game and Cairney who pulled him away and probably saved him from a yellow card.  He's still learning the role but is growing into it.

[ScalleysDad]

Some great names from the past being mentioned as leaders but the make up of many teams like ours simply does not allow for the traditional leader on the pitch role. The current squad is made up of loans, a want away striker, a couple of lightweights, as yet untested or even untried imports and old legs. The expression 'bleeding black and white for the team" is not going to be heard for a while. Of the current squad I would have gone Kalas simply because I feel he plays in the best position for captaincy but he seems to be one of the perpetually injured loanees we seem to have had our fair share of over the years. He is possibly way too smart to be seen with his socks down, sleeves up and bellowing at someone for 10% more in the 85th minute. I know some will object to bellowing in public so strongly phrased eye contact then. MacDonald as the brick sh*thouse version of captaincy. Build the midfield and forwards around Cairney but the arm band does not fit.

I think it was McDonald having a go at the referee during the Birmingham Game and Cairney who pulled him away and probably saved him from a yellow card.  He's still learning the role but is growing into it.

Indeed. I think Cairney did a similar thing when things got heated during the Reading game at the Cottage but tbh I would expect any of the lieutenants to do that as well. It's a really difficult classroom to learn the trade of leadership and captaincy in, I wholly acknowledge that, but I still feel the armband is too big and it might just be affecting his natural game.

[alfie]

Again let's keep some perspective re. Martin

Martin has scored 10 in 23 for us which is substantially as good as he's ever been in his career and equates to a 20+ goals per season and a £10m+ player.

So firstly, Woodrow scoring 1 goal for Burton and Martin playing a bad game away to Birmingham (when the whole team played poorly) doesn't suddenly mean Woodrow would be doing a better job. 

Secondly people seem to be assuming Joka chose to offload Woodrow and not to sign Elrich/Kamara. Jokanovic has publicly said he was surprised we didn't sign another striker because otherwise, Woodrow and Smith wouldn't have been allowed to go. So the board f%^&ed up, not Jokanovic, and that would have happened regardless of whether we'd offloaded Martin. So in all honesty we should be thanking our lucky stars we kept Martin because if we hadn't, the board still would likely have offloaded Woodrow and Smith, still f^&*& up the Elrich deal, and Cyriac would be our only option.

Ok if you say so