martin

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

For those who think that Martin is highly rated and a key part of Jokanovic's plans how do they explain why Piazon was preferred to Martin in the run of games until he broke his jaw?

[MJG]

For those who think that Martin is highly rated and a key part of Jokanovic's plans how do they explain why Piazon was preferred to Martin in the run of games until he broke his jaw?

But one point of that is that Piazon was not played in the central role. In fact Piazon has not started a game in a central role at all. It's usually been Ayite up until kebano popped back on the scene.
But like any player Martin was dropped for whatever reasons and replaced and is now back in.
Also Martin was picked constantly by Joka right up to the off field matter and that's when he had everyone fit.

[MJG]

MJG: "Also Nose its not indefensible, its a matter of opinion. I'd happily sit down with anyone and rewatch saturday and Tuesday with them and concentrate on Martin when in view.
Lets see if hes standing around twiddling his thumbs as many think or actually doing what he is asked".

I think that's the point. He may appear "useless" to some of us but is he just doing what the manager asks - a bit like Zamora did?

I do not think these situations are quite comparable.

Firstly Martin is scoring goals whereas Zamora in his first season couldn't get goals despite trying.

Secondly Zamora took his role as hold up player seriously and was excellent at it. Martin has struggled all season to win the ball in the air or bring it under control and lay it off. If he did that a reasonable amount of times then I could believe that he was playing a role and could see him as a more rounded player and better appreciate his contribution but he hasn't.

It was Roy who said that he was doing the job that he wanted him to, even when he wasn't getting goals and elements of the crowd were on his back.

I'm suggesting that perhaps Martin is doing to SJ's satisfaction the job that he wants him to do, not that the roles are necessarily identical.

I understand that.

Maybe someone here can explain what Martin is being asked to do that is different to what we expect of the other forwards and give some clear examples so that we doubters can better understand what is going on.

I did this a few months ago to try and explain what hes doing for us. I dont think hes being asked to play the normal last man on the defenders role.
His job is the hub of a wheel, with the ball being laid off to those rotating around him.  I dont even think its in the Zamora way of playing either as the system was different. But i think this is what he brings and like last week he showed he has an eye for goal.

I can sort of see this but again I just do not see that either the approach or particularly Martin is being effective.

I am not seeing the flicks on or through balls to Aluko or Ayite (in your diagram or their equivalents), the lay offs to Cairney or Johansen for shots on goal or through balls to A+A or the moving of the ball out wide for Malone or Fredericks.

For all his peculiarities in not being a traditional centre forward McCormack always wanted to be a key part of the game and on the ball. He was The focus of many of most of our moves, if a bit too dominant on occasions for the team good.

It says something that Martin is seen as being asked to play a role rather than being there for the strengths someone of his experience and cost should be bringing to the side.

here are the Avg positions for Preston and then Leeds and you can see its similar to what I put down.

[Holders]

I wondered before if his attitude problem and wanting to return to Derby initially arose from us getting him on loan, with a view to purchase, and then him getting wind that we were having second thoughts/changed our mind/kept our options open/looking at someone else. If he felt that we'd "reneged" on him (and McClaren was now back) that might be a rational explanation for what appeared as petulance. Perhaps Rigg's coincidental departure had some connection. Just hypothesising here. If, just if, we got promoted or at least into the play-offs, he might think that our grass was greener than Derby's. The question then is, is he the sort of player we'd want in the PL. Only SJ knows that.

Meantime, if he's doing what SJ wants him to do then I'm satisfied with that.

[Southcoastffc]

IMO there are some very interesting and insightful posts on this thread, notably those from Apprentice and MJG.

Despite what many seem to say, Martin is not the sperm of the devil. It's really VERY simple.  SJ does not have to pick C Martin. Sometimes he chooses to do so. Sometimes he chooses to put him on the bench. Sometimes he doesn't include him in the squad.  For now CM is 'our' player and what SJ  - who has proved to be a very good thing - does in respect of CM has my full backing.